7 replies to this topic

[Ampa-omega]

Since the recent interest on evaluating the safety and a possible safe dosing scheme of Pramiracetam.

I was wondering if the knowledgable among us can help again, This time to evaluate on Nefiracetam and confirm (or at least, get more conclusive) on its safety of use in humans, its unique properties should be further examined, and conclusions should be better made then relying on a single study.

http://www.longecity...48-nefiracetam/
http://www.longecity...ic-measurement/
http://www.longecity...cs-nefiracetam/

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17095583
http://www.ionchanne...p?pmid=12426061
http://www.longecity...__1#entry297860

http://www.longecity...ms/page__st__20
http://www.longecity...st/page__st__60
http://www.longecity...__1#entry248141
http://www.longecity...819#entry433819

Perhaps if we have more anecdotal reports plus studies done in humans, we can gauge whether it's a reason to be alarmed about testicular toxicity. It seems strange to extrapolate a study done on dogs to humans, since for example dogs cant even consume chocolate like humans. it also seems strange that nefiracetam can cause such an adverse effect so far away from the brain, how do we know that other racetams aren't also causing toxicities in other areas of the body?

Edited by Ampa-omega, 28 August 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Nefiracetam is one of the most effective nootropics I've used in relation to controlling my ADD. It's being developed by Neuren Pharmaceuticals for a post-stroke apathy treatment. Here's a link to the study using doses up to 900mg per day.

The studies of toxicity worried me a bit but I'm pretty sure it didn't damage me at all (no noticeable signs of physical damage) but of course I haven't had any labs done on sperm count/motility or kidney function.

The only side effect I noticed was a headache (tension in head and neck) if taken in doses above ~250mg at a time or over 500mg total for one day. I may not have been taking enough choline though. Another side effect was increased intensity of body-awareness. That was actually quite cool and made meditation awesome. It basically does for sensory input what oxiracetam does for auditory input (at least in my experience).

I started with 900mg/day and worked my way down to 150mg 2-3 x /day. That was the sweet-spot for me personally.

An upside for me was that it had no effect on my emotions or mood. It gave me a very calm and focused state of mind. The effects seemed to be immediate rather than having to wait days for the loading phase that accompanies many of the other racetams.

I say it was effective for my ADD not because it necessarily motivated me to accomplish tasks, but because it removed the appeal of distractions. Even involuntary eye-movements (AKA, scanning a page while reading/typing) stopped on their own. When a distracting thought would come to mind it didn't carry the same compulsory appeal that it usually does. I literally "chose" to continue what I was doing. It was effortless focus... not driven or intense, but clear and calm.

I suppose you could get the same effect from behavioral training and consistent practice, but I haven't been disciplined enough to do anything like that.

Another interesting caveat is that it made my urge to gamble non-existent. I got a bit addicted to gambling at the beginning of the year and it was really annoying. When I took the nefiracetam though the urge just disappeared. Could be due to the cAMP activity highlighted in this study (PM me for the full PDF if you want it) but all I know for sure is that it was a friggen relief. Also found myself forgetting to smoke while taking it.

I took it continuously for about a month. I don't use it chronically (every day) because I take a lot of other supp's and it feels a bit hard on my body (body-load sensation). But it's nice for big projects and reducing cravings for addictive things.

[Ampa-omega]

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

sensory effects you mentioned could be possibly due to its muscarinic receptor properties just my guess. Effortless focus part you mentioned sounds very interesting, i wonder how it would compare to modafinil, do you know? I haven't tried it yet.

The cAMP study is interesting, could be usefull for a use on pathological behaviors, i'm curious to know how it effects cGMP levels on nmda receptors, since nefiracetam modulates the glycine binding site of the NMDA receptor. And yes we need some info from labs from people done on sperm count/motility or kidney function if people are willing to try it. Periodically increasing small doses shouldn't be harmful and we can find where the safe dose is.

Edited by Ampa-omega, 31 August 2011 - 05:16 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Another study comparing nefiracetam and oxiracetam. Interesting that after chronic administration neurotransmitter metabolites' concentrations are increased.

[Ampa-omega]

thanks for the update
i cant really elaborate on it without the full study, but that study suggest a certain cerebral concentration of nefiracetam must be reached to induce release of monoamines that happens only on the 14th day of dosing?

here is a related study
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7865174

Edited by Ampa-omega, 21 September 2011 - 09:08 PM.

[ScienceGuy]

Aside from the possible TESTICULAR TOXICITY concerns, there is in fact another reason to avoid prolonged usage of NEFIRACETAM for the medium to long-term... see THIS thread for details: NEFIRACETAM - Another reason to avoid prolonged usage

[jroseland]

Aside from the possible TESTICULAR TOXICITY concerns, there is in fact another reason to avoid prolonged usage of NEFIRACETAM for the medium to long-term... see THIS thread for details: NEFIRACETAM - Another reason to avoid prolonged usage

ScienceGuy you mention that Nefiracetam is a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST, if I'm understand correctly that means that over time it desensitizes or uses up all the Gaba receptors. Which kind of has an effect similar to alcohol wherein your tolerance goes up over time and you become increasingly dependent on a Gaba source to feel normal.

[normalizing]

yikes that sounds bad. but i doubt it can be as bad as regular alcohol use since i havent heard any such similar reports as of yet. jroseland you do raise a good point tho, and i assume you understand how alcohol drains you and how you need gaba to feel normal again, have any idea as to what to do in such situation?