26 replies to this topic

[Dirk_Diggler]

I love SmartPowder's prices. But I hate the customer service.

I have been a loyal customer for about a year now. I ordered EVERYTHING from them because I assumed that they were a good quality AND that the customer service was good.

They do ship quickly. I will give them that. But for the 3rd time now, the customer service has sucked. I sent them an email for the 3rd time almost 3 days ago and still haven't gotten a response.

Another time I sent an email (several months ago) after placing several LARGE orders ($150+ of product) and politely asked Mike if he could perhaps include a small sample of their Pramiracetam as I wanted to try a small bit before purchasing anything larger. He told me that due to FDA regulations he couldn't do that. Now I understand that if I had requested a free sample without placing an order. But I asked him to include this with a LARGE order that I had PAID for. But I still ordered from them not thinking much of it.

But I'm afraid they've lost me as a customer. Blatantly ignoring my question (I requested, if it was possible to include two products that they don't have in their product list, but understood if they couldn't) is just rude. I at least expected SOME type of response.

As much as I appreciate their prices, I think I'd rather order from a company who actually treats the customer like a customer.

Mike, I know you're busy and all, but the customers should be number one. Your prices are very competitive, but at what price? I understand some people just want to order and get their product, and for that you go above and beyond. But taking care of your loyal customers should be a priority. I'm not demanding anything and rarely have I emailed you. But the times I have I have been very disappionted with your response, or lack thereof.

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 15 September 2011 - 01:13 AM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Here is pictures of my previous orders from them. Notice all the black bottles with SP on them?

Attached Files

•  0228111445 - My collection of supplements at that time.jpg   224.16KB   22 downloads
•  0228111445a - All my other supplements I was taking at the time (couldn\'t fit them all in one frame).jpg   221.75KB   21 downloads

[Dirk_Diggler]

THIS IS THE EMAIL I SENT:

To sales@smartpowders.com

From: ************************** Sent: Mon 9/12/11 1:03 PM To: sales@smartpowders.com

Hello Mike,

I was curious about a few products that I don't see on your website. I thought maybe if enough people inquired about it, you might start selling it.

One is Noopept. It's derivative of piracetam that's technically a peptide. It's mainly used in Russia. The only place I can find it online is at CerebralHealth.com and it's a bulk powder. Since I order almost all of my products from your company, I thought I'd maybe see if selling this would be a possibility for your company in the future. I've never tried it, but a lot of people on Longecity/ImmInst have had favorable results with it. And upon further researching it, it seems that this would be a very interesting compound.

Another one is Pyritinol. I couldn't find it at all on your website.

Anyway, just thought it couldn't hurt to ask. If I could ask for one or the other it would be the Noopept. But since you have Sulbutiamine, I thought you would also carry Pyritinol.

Take care,

*******************

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 15 September 2011 - 01:13 AM.

[unregistered_user]

Yea, I stopped using them as well. Cerebral Health is a little more expensive but I've been satisfied with their service and the quality of their products.

[nezxon]

I think bad customer service is when there's a problem with a purchase or condition of sale and the company refuses to negotiate to settle the issue. I recall working for at least three companies touting a customer service strategy. It seemed to me the goal was to make everyone feel good about very low quality products.

I lament the loss of the days where product quality was king, like the middle ages. The blacksmith might be the gruffest guy you'll ever meet, but he sold the best swords. Now it seems people will spend their money on garbage, so long as it comes with a coach to make them feel good about the purchase.

If a company has a quality product at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll buy it. I don't need to interact with them, they're not my friend or companion. I don't want to build a relationship, I don't want them to respond or anticipate my needs. I would understand if you had a problem and they refused to acknowledge or rectify it, but it seems to me you're mad that they won't interact with you outside of the structure of ordering products. Your frustration seems unreasonable to me.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use or continue using Smart Powders, I don't have any stake in them. It just seems to me this is a non-issue.

[Dirk_Diggler]

You have good point. They're responsibility is to fill the order. But I felt that since I gave them ALL of my service, they'd be willing to at least acknowledge that I exist.

So you're saying if I had a problem with their product then it would be their responsibility to answer my concerns?

I'm sorry, I do disagree with you for the most part. To me, customer service doesn't simply end with fulfilling the order. I don't know. Maybe I had high hopes. But I have a feeling there are other companies that would at least respond to my question.

But to each his own. But using your logic, if you were to go to the blacksmith and ask him a question then he would have no responsibility to answer you as long as it had nothing to do with your purchase. Perhaps you inquired about a future purchase. Still, using your logic, it would not be customer oriented to answer you?

I'm just saying that I was let down with the lack of response. I've only emailed a few times but each time was pretty much told "sorry, can't help you" or completely ignored.

And I don't have a vendetta against SmartPowders either. I was a loyal customer and would defend them when someone mentioned bad experiences. I couldn't fathom that someone actually could dislike them without having some kind of personal reason to. But I understand now why so many people aren't happy with SmartPowders. And I will be ordering all my future orders with CerebralHealth. I've never used them before, but just hearing about other people's experiences with them, I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about them. I can't say that with SmartPowders. I just really hate that I actually spent so much money with them.

And you mention the old days...customer service was having a relationship with your customer. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned...

[nezxon]

You have good point. They're responsibility is to fill the order. But I felt that since I gave them ALL of my service, they'd be willing to at least acknowledge that I exist.

Why do you find an answer like "sorry, can't help you" insulting? From your account, you were denied free product, and no response on asking them to make additions to their product line, I'm not clear on why you find that exchange insulting.

So you're saying if I had a problem with their product then it would be their responsibility to answer my concerns?

I think that's a fair interpretation of what I said.

I have a feeling there are other companies that would at least respond to my question.

I find it likely you are correct.

But to each his own. But using your logic, if you were to go to the blacksmith and ask him a question then he would have no responsibility to answer you as long as it had nothing to do with your purchase. Perhaps you inquired about a future purchase. Still, using your logic, it would not be customer oriented to answer you?

I think answering would be customer-oriented, but I don't believe a customer-oriented approach seems best for the customer. I think customer-oriented mindsets unfairly advantage the companies over the customers. Microsoft, AOL, AT&T, Time Warner... I recall years of service outages and faulty products, but everyone seems to feel good about having their hand held through all the trouble. I've never had to deal with them, but I bet Monsanto has excellent customer service. Kraft, General Mills, etc. it seems to me they sell some of the most poisonous food-like substances money can buy, but they've got an 800 number unlike an organic farmer. I'm sure I could whip off an email with any suggestion I like and get a very positive and timely response from all the customer-oriented companies.

I've purchased from Smart Powders, but the majority of my money has been spent with Cerebral Health. To me, a company is just a price and a product. Everything else seems like psychological strategies geared towards getting me to either spend more money or think better of them (or think less of their competitors). I won't let companies manipulate me, they don't get loyalty from me. Only my friends get loyalty. I'll order from Cerebral Health when their prices are more favorable, and I'll order from Smart Powders when the pendulum of market forces makes their prices more favorable, unless I have some reason to doubt the quality of one or the other.

I sent an email to Cerebral Health to ask about an additional service (next-day shipping) when I had run out of Aniracetam and I didn't get a response. I still placed my order anyway. I would have preferred a faster shipping option, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

[Dirk_Diggler]

I see your point. Everybody's different, and I guess my ideas with customer service conflict with yours.

But I do appreciate you voicing your opinion. It's always good to get different viewpoints.

When it comes down to it, I may decide to order from SmartPowders again since ultimately I'm not looking for customer service, I just want the product. You do bring up a very good point. And by pointing that out, I realized that quality is the ultimate concern, and price a pretty close second. I guess I just had my priorities mixed up and let personal feelings mitigate my actions.

But I will shop around and try to find a good balance between quality product and price.

If I seemed vindictive, I apologize. I'm not out to hurt anyone or their business. I just wanted to voice my thoughts on the situation. And nezxon, you have helped me see the reality here, and I do appreciate that.

[JChief]

I believe Cerebral Health seems to be trustworthy and their bulk pricing I think is competitive too. I will mention that NutraPlanet is where I purchased my first batch of sulbutiamine and piracetam and they seemed to have great prices too. Just to add another to the mix

[Dirk_Diggler]

Wow...NutraPlanet does have some very competitive prices.

CerebralHealth also has excellent bulk pricing. Will definately be comparing prices and shopping around.

[Surive123]

Cerebral Health is substantially more expensive than Smart Powders. Why is this?

[manic_racetam]

Cerebral Health is substantially more expensive than Smart Powders. Why is this?

This thread really belongs in the retailer section but I love speculating on this subject. My theory is that smartpowders orders most of their products in bulk from China or other cheaper countries. That's why they can sell them at significantly lower prices for the consumer, but often times lower quality as well.

Cerebral Health probably synthesizes/produces most of their products in house (in their lab in Florida) which makes a higher quality (more verifiable quality at least) product and also correlates with a higher price.

That's my guess, I've got nothing to verify the theory but it makes sense to me.

[Dirk_Diggler]

You're right, it does belong in the retailer section. My bad

[unregistered_user]

@manic_racetam: I like that theory.

[JChief]

This thread really belongs in the retailer section but I love speculating on this subject. My theory is that smartpowders orders most of their products in bulk from China or other cheaper countries. That's why they can sell them at significantly lower prices for the consumer, but often times lower quality as well.

Cerebral Health probably synthesizes/produces most of their products in house (in their lab in Florida) which makes a higher quality (more verifiable quality at least) product and also correlates with a higher price.

That's my guess, I've got nothing to verify the theory but it makes sense to me.

Yeah I've always been turned off by flashy advertising and labels and whatnot. Seems anywhere that prides itself on purity and quality and up front about the COA certs etc are more focused on substance over style. Seems with most things in life you get what you pay for. If you are concerned about what you are putting into your body then cost, while important when budget is a concern, should take a back seat to quality.

[evodude]

I ordered oxiracetam and noopept from cerebral health becausr it said purity 99,9%. then when i received the sealed bags it said 99%. i find that misleading. Big difference between those nrs. Chinese manufacturet cant reach 99,9, due to impurity of the RM,the lab condition; refined times,ect. But if its around 99 then it might be chinese.


 

Edited by songbo, 16 September 2011 - 05:20 AM.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Jesus Christ...Relentless Improvement is looking better and better everyday.

[JChief]

Jesus Christ...Relentless Improvement is looking better and better everyday.

Except for their prices for Piracetam are a bit high in my opinion when you can buy a kilo from CH for $80. Or 500 800mg caps from NutraPlanet for $40. They don't offer all the popular racetams but I may give them a try for their sulbutiamine since they are in capsule form (that stuff tastes atrocious!)

EDIT: I should state that I like that RI shows the CoA for their piracetam and offers "No other USA supplier exercises the total control of quality and purity that we do." So quality becomes the concern here. RI > NutraPlanet as far as I'm concerned after further review.

Edited by JChief, 16 September 2011 - 06:27 AM.

[JChief]

I ordered oxiracetam and noopept from cerebral health becausr it said purity 99,9%. then when i received the sealed bags it said 99%. i find that misleading. Big difference between those nrs. Chinese manufacturet cant reach 99,9, due to impurity of the RM,the lab condition; refined times,ect. But if its around 99 then it might be chinese.

Thanks for pointing this out. Might ask them directly about that and to correct any inaccuracies. I know the person running CH posts on here too.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Yeah it's hard to get used to paying $30+ for 60 x 200mg Sulbutiamine when you're used to paying less than $20 (shipping included) for the exact same thing from SmartPowders. It's so easy to say you'd rather have quality but then I go and check out Relentless Improvement and it's at least double what I was paying.

As for the taste of sulbutiamine...I bought the powder not thinking or researching how it tasted (I'm used to taking SNS bulk piracetam powder and didn't think anything could be as bad as that...boy was I wrong).

I took a heaping 1/4 teaspoon of it and nearly vomited. Now I get a single square of toilet paper and parachute it. Rudimentary, I know, but damn the taste of that shyte. I can't even put the taste into words. It's horrid.

[JChief]

As for the taste of sulbutiamine [...]I can't even put the taste into words. It's horrid.

Ha! indeed it is. What I've found helpful is combining it with raw honey and mixing really well and eating it makes it much more palatable. Another method is I'll take the provided 300mg measuring spoon that came with the product and put 2-3 in a small glass of (very) sweet tea and take it like a shot and chase again with it and that seems to work well too. Also, I see RI offers 120 200mg caps for $42.

Edited by JChief, 16 September 2011 - 07:16 AM.

[nezxon]

Jesus Christ...Relentless Improvement is looking better and better everyday.

Actually this whole discussion brought RI to mind for me. I plan to buy my Piracetam from them from here on out. It is significantly more expensive than CH and NutraPlanet, but I like the CoA and promise of higher quality, and I like their sponsorship of ImmInst/Longecity. It's too bad the only nootropics that I purchase they stock are Piracetam and Sulbutiamine.

P.S. I didn't interpret anything you said as vindictive. Just typical frustration from dealing with a niche market. The sentiments expressed (or not expressed) by nootropic suppliers seems similar to that of of stereotypical Comic Book store owners (like Comic Book Guy in The Simpsons). Ideally I'd like a company that's both open in the way I think you prefer, and professional in that they reliably serve a high-quality product, but for some reason it always seems to be one or the other. The weird kid who has all the best toys to play with.

[kikai93]

Guys, they all source from China. Every last vendor sources from China, and some from India, Malaysia and countries of similar capability.
If they were sourcing from the US or Europe, the prices would be significantly higher.
Chinese quality is not necessarily better or worse than American or European quality.

CoA's are a joke. Most (including those at RI) are a year or more old, and they only certify the batch tested. The next batch could have a contaminant or other issues.

Chinese manufacturing processes can get the same purity of substance as those of any other country, because they're the same processes. Quality comes from the implementation of those processes, the machines and other equipment used, and the controls in place.

Vendors I've had good luck with: Smartpowders, Cerebral Health, iHerb (NOW, Doctor's Best and Jarrow products), and direct sourcing.

[adamh]

You asked about 2 new products which means you wanted them to do a detailed explanation of their reasoning or to do research and get back with you. That sounds unreasonable. If they had replied with "we can't carry everything" You might have been offended by that. If you want pals to talk with, look on social network sites.

I suggest that imminst or some of it's members pay to have lab work done on several of sp's products and compare them with one or two others. It would cost some but if you offer a lab a substantial amount of work they will likely cut you a substantial discount. We might be able to work something out to where when 5 or more samples are gathered, they will give the discount price and people could send in their stuff along with payment. Might get too complicated but it's worth a thought. Better than saying in effect, we have no idea.

[DAMABO]

You asked about 2 new products which means you wanted them to do a detailed explanation of their reasoning or to do research and get back with you. That sounds unreasonable. If they had replied with "we can't carry everything" You might have been offended by that. If you want pals to talk with, look on social network sites.

I suggest that imminst or some of it's members pay to have lab work done on several of sp's products and compare them with one or two others. It would cost some but if you offer a lab a substantial amount of work they will likely cut you a substantial discount. We might be able to work something out to where when 5 or more samples are gathered, they will give the discount price and people could send in their stuff along with payment. Might get too complicated but it's worth a thought. Better than saying in effect, we have no idea.

good idea. hope any powerful Imminst member reads this.

[polymathic]

Not to be the thread necromancer here, but can anyone help me.

I can't for the LIFE of me download those two pictures OP attached in his second post.

What started as a casual browse of a thread has now turned into 20 minutes of scratching my head.

When I click on them, I get the message

"Sorry, you don't have permission for that!"

[Terenci Claramunt]

I'm also very disappointed with this company, here's my horrible experience: http://www.longecity...rvice-138-lost/