2626 replies to this topic

[Hebbeh]

This isn't spam. Thank you for taking the time to contribute.

I've noticed a mental effect as well, but since I've added modafinil to my stack I can't say for sure which drugs are doing what, only that I like the final result. The only thing I can blame fully on forskolin is the change in my bowel movements, which are now softer and more frequent, and the constant farting. Hopefully it doesn't last.

Has anyone had trouble focusing their eyes while on this stack? Like you had to stare at the words and force your eyes to focus correctly?

I have some hydergine, so I'll give it a try later this month and report back.

Yes, I'm having similar side effects....figured it was just me....of course I'm taking a pretty big stack of various supps right now...including the uridine stack.

[summertimex]

okay, so the initial cherry pop effects were reduced on the second day. increased energy with visual/energy waves still. increased confidence, wellbeing, thermogenetic heat, rapid articulation of ideas. for me it brought back a stage of mental-nostalgia that i havent had since i was 17-18.

i was able to counter-act the hair-thinning/loss effect that forskolincould have (probably increased T leads to increased DHT) with milk thistle, pterostilbene, acai extracts along with other hair strength related supplements, but mostly those i think. my hair was falling out after a shower in the morning before antioxidants then after a while it didnt.

the plant-like melanin effect cant be counter-acted with antioxidants.

ERK-signaling is really interesting since neurons are allowed a very large amount of dentritical connections (thousands) if the preconditions arise.

someone should start building further stacks (ERK, creativity, photographism, etc)

Edited by gen6k, 02 June 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Why not try it now? Haha my impatience acting up:)

Got forskolin and d aspartic acid coming; is viagra insured in the nhs? im out of money and need some cognitive and penile enhancement.

Also using daa.....it's awesome!

[medievil]

Also using daa.....it's awesome!

Can you post what exactly you take and what results you get?
Thx:)

[Hebbeh]

Can you post what exactly you take and what results you get?
Thx:)

To be honest, the list is too scary long... ..I started taking supps about 12 years ago when I took up bodybuilding and got on a health kick...although I realize serious bodybuilding and health kick is a little bit of an oxymoron.. ..but these days, at age 55, I'm more focused on extending quality of life and maintaining cognitive function....but find my dietary and supplement habits from my bodybuilding days are hard to leave...probably due to some OCD tendencies....anyway, over the past 12 years, I have tended to add additional supps to existing supps resulting in an impressive laundry list....where to start....I can only say I have multi-faceted objectives in regards to supplementing...including enhanced exercise (carry over from BB days), restored and improved cognitive function including focus, ADD tendencies, OCD tendencies, social anxiety in large group tendencies, and fear of Alzheimer's (Dad has it)....although my daughter, whom is just finishing her PhD in psychology, believes my ADD is really high functioning Asperger's...which at first, I thought was crazy talk...but after reading and considering...am starting to agree. Anyway, my OCD tendencies obviously has carry over into my supp regimen...everything in extremes and more is better...after all, it started with BB and that is what modern BB is all about.. ....anyway, my extreme supp regimen probably won't appeal to many here.

[Hebbeh]

Can you post what exactly you take and what results you get?
Thx:)

Too late to edit...but guess I can add that I've taken resveratrol and quercetin for years, luteolin for about a year, used forskolin back in the BB day and decided to add it back in recently. Forskolin is powerful...fine line between enough and too much...even for me. And I've found that forskolin potentiates the vasodilation effects of ginkgo to the extent that I can't take both.. ......I've also been using the uridine stack for 7 months and it has had the most profound effect in restoring my focus and concentration...it has turned by the clock by more than a decade...so that I have the cognitive focus and concentration of 20 years ago which I wouldn't of thought any longer possible. Of course, I was taking everything but the forskolin when I added uridine 7 months ago. The forskolin has slightly amplified the existing effects of uridine (and other supps) in improving focus and concentration...and ability to absorb new material. I work in a high tech rapidly and constantly changing field and was finding it more and more difficult to stay on top of the constantly changing technology...which the younger generation is growing up with and seems to come naturally.. ..but in the past 7 months since adding uridine...I'm back.. ...and forskolin has slightly amplified that...as long as I don't overdose...as the bell curve for forskolin is short for me.

[medievil]

Reminds me of in me in the past taking massive ammounts of sups togheter; i completely got over that tough.

[abelard lindsay]

I was looking over this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19253410

Galantamine enhancement of long-term potentiation is mediated by calcium/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II and protein kinase C activation.

and thought here's another piece in the LTP puzzle. Let's review the story so far:

So in LTP Early (http://en.wikipedia....ion#Early_phase) we have

NMDA -> CAMKII -> AMPA

Then in Late LTP (http://en.wikipedia....tion#Late_phase) we have

cAMP -> PKA -> CREB -> ERK -> LTP (CILTEP Stack works here)
and
CAMKII -> PKC -> ERK -> LTP (Galantamine Works Here)

So now I would suggest a further enhancement to the stack...

NMDA -> Magnesium Threonate
CAMKII/PKC -> Galantamine
AMPA -> 'Racetams (Not Aniracetam)
cAMP/PKA/CREB -> (CILTEP) Forskolin/PDE4 Inhibitor (e.g Quercetin)/Dopamine Source (e.g L-Phenylalanine)/(Vitamin C?)

I'm not totally sure Galantamine is going to be a great thing to take every day. It's an ACHE and a little unpredictable in my past experience and has some side effects. It will need some testing. It's also quite pricey... IMHO, if it works, it's an optional addition to the stack and not a basic requirement.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 02 June 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Reminds me of in me in the past taking massive ammounts of sups togheter; i completely got over that tough.

Understood...yes, it's not for everybody...and some might consider it odd, weird, or possibly a sickness itself...(but then most would think that about everybody posting on this forum!)...but I've had goals along the way and the various supplements have helped me achieve things most either dream about or have no clue about. The difficult thing when using a large number of supps, of course, is trying to sort out what positive effects are influenced by which supps...and thus, it is often easier to just keep taking them all...to avoid regressing back to where I started from. I do have a quite impressive story...and most agree that know my story. One thing I've never been impressed with though, that many seem to think is the golden elixir, are the racetams...I've tried most of them and never had any positive effects from any of them...in fact, they all made me feel worse in some respect and I would go back and retry them hoping for a different outcome...but gave up on racetams. And methylene blue....that stuff made me feel horrible at any dose...and once again, I kept going back and giving it another shot...until I finally put an end to it and threw the fish meds in the trash.

I guess to put it all in perspective....just for starters:
1) I've managed to achieve a respected high tech 6 figure+ position with no degree having been completely self taught...I believe that will put me in an elite group seldom seen anymore.
2) I climbed a 14,000 ft mountain last weekend....26+ miles round trip and 7400+ ft of elevation gain...and I do this kind of stuff regularly...at age 55, I believe that will put me in an elite group seldom seen anymore.
3) Diet, exercise, and supplementation has all played a big role in achieving and continuing to live these goals...and have brought me down a long road from where I started.

edit: My apologies for hi-jacking the thread.

Edited by Hebbeh, 02 June 2012 - 03:51 AM.

[medievil]

What about the addition of a cholinergic and serotogenic (treshold doses of a psychedelic) to CILTEP they should potentiate the stack like dopaminergics do.

What about other area's of cognition? Problem solving like doing maths is this a differend area or does LTP cover this too? Im new to this subject and have the impression LTP is mostly just implicated in learning.
Also id use D aspartic acid for nmda activation.

[medievil]

https://www.alldaych...ery=Galantamine
They sell cheap galantamine; i took it before and quite liked it.

[medievil]

I think methylene blue could work perfectly to improve the limits of the brain; ppl here have reported that too much causes weird effects and that they go over their brains limits; ive just read methylene blue facilates fear extinction because it makes it easier for the brain to process information much quicker (something along those lines) so id think it would go fantastic in this stack.

And err im known for my optimism and enthousiasm haha srry for the flood of posts.

[X_Danny_X]

After reading this crazy long thread, I decided to go with these supplements.

Selegiline for dopamine increase
Magnesium Threonate for NMDA inhibition
ALCAR for other nootropic benefits
Fish Oil for other nootropic benefits
Spirulina for healthy benefits and Uridine (yeah not proven how effective is Uridine from Spirulina, but that is another issue)
CRAZE Preworkout thing for whatever benefits it has. It has Vitamin C and also Caffeine.
Ashwaghanda for more brain cognitive enhancement and whatever else it gives (such as better sleep)
Melatonin for sleep and helping to increase growth hormone production. I feel like superman when waking up.

Quercetin (with Branelain) for PDE4 and PDE5 inhibition. Reading this thread showed me that Quercetin also inhibits COMT. I was thinking of taking Cat's Claw but if Quercetin works in being COMT inhibitor, I wont buy Cats Claw.
This guy I take to also enhance executive function since that is what happens when you inhibit COMT.
Forskolin for reasons already explained in this thread and for working out.
Caffeine The CRAZE supplement thing has caffeine but might need a kick though doubtful if I am taking Quercetin.
D Aspartic Acid for what medevil posted of prolonging the affects.


This is alot of stuff and inhibition. Assuming I survived and live to tell the tale, I will report back from this adventure that I may never returned.


TOODLES!!

Edited by X_Danny_X, 02 June 2012 - 04:32 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

What about the addition of a cholinergic and serotogenic (treshold doses of a psychedelic) to CILTEP they should potentiate the stack like dopaminergics do.

Could help. So far I've only seen a dopamine connection in the literature.

What about other area's of cognition? Problem solving like doing maths is this a differend area or does LTP cover this too? Im new to this subject and have the impression LTP is mostly just implicated in learning.
Also id use D aspartic acid for nmda activation.

Supplementing with raw neurotransmitters is not something to do lightly and not guaranteed to not cause damage. For instance, the well known example of glutamate excitotoxicity and L-Dopa supplementation causing tardive dyskenesia. Is there a study showing that D-aspartic acid supplementation positively modulates NMDA receptor function?

[medievil]

In rodent models it reverses the shizophrenic like effects of amphetamine wich is attributed to nmda agonism; as for toxiticy its a weaker nmda agonist then glutamate but your correct we dont have proof its 100% safe but the same can be said for combo's of differend supplements etc.

As an alternative there's pregnenolone wich both upregulates nmda and activates it; i think it also acts on AMPA its a pretty complex drug.

[abelard lindsay]

Ok, found a study saying D-aspartic acid is a nootropic in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19890700

More on it over here, including a discussion of risks:
http://www.longecity...-aspartic-acid/

Edited by abelard lindsay, 02 June 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[medievil]

Here a summary of all compounds that may be relevant and synergetic with this stack.

cAMP/PKA/CREB ->
Cyclic amp --> Forskolin, nefiracetam
PDE4 - Resveratrol, quercetin, artichoke, cilomilast, pentoxyfiline
Dopamine - Amphetamine, tyrosine, uridine, cafeine, the magic supplement craze
noradrenaline - wellbutrin, reboxetine, ephedrine, DMAA, amphetamine
PDE5 - Viagra
PDE1 - Vinpocetine
CAMKII/PKC -> Galantamine, nefiracetam
Acetylcholine - Galantamine, alcar, choline bitartrate
Serotonine - Hydergine, LSD etc (still have to fully research treshold psych doses and their relevance to this).
nitric oxide - Pramiracetam, viagra, ginseng
Glutamate nmda - D aspartic acid, l glutamic acid, MSG (safety should be discussed), pregnenolone, sarcosine
AMPA - The racetams, quercetin, resveratrol, nac

neurotrophic factors - Choline, uridine, omega3
Going beyond the brains limits - Methylene blue

And some vitamin c as helping hand.

Throwing one thing of every category may be major overkill tough but we can try potential synergy's seperately.

Seeing how positively you can affect the mind im gonna be working on a sex stack.

Edited by medievil, 02 June 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[medievil]

http://www.longecity...580#entry517580

Finetuning those then all we need is a health/muscle gain stack to go limitless.

Haha srry for my offtopic shit here; in contrast to yall stimulants dramatically enhance my creativity.

[abelard lindsay]

Here a summary of all compounds that may be relevant and synergetic with this stack.

.....(Lots of stuff).....

And some vitamin c as helping hand.

Throwing one thing of every category may be major overkill tough but we can try potential synergy's seperately.

Seeing how positively you can affect the mind im gonna be working on a sex stack.

A point here about methodology, if I may. I tend to favor the methodology of carefully evaluating the scientific evidence, formulating theories, and mulling them for a fair amount of time before making small adjustments to my supplement stack. So far I've built this thing up to Forskolin/Herbal PDE-4/Dopamine Source (Amino acid or otherwise) and now possibly, if it synergizes, possibly Galantamine and then probably only ocassionaly. Racetams, Vitamin C, Multi-Vitamin, etc are fine. Please take them. However, I find I don't need them to get the CILTEP effect.

I'm still not convinced that PDE1 and PDE5 inhibition are going to make this stack work better. All PDEs are present in different areas of the body and regulate different metabolic processes. Even among PDE4's some sub-types cause vomiting and severe gastrointestinal discomfort, which is why Rolipram never really got anywhere except as a research drug. MSG is pretty thoroughly a bad idea to supplement with due to well known excitotoxicity issues.

If anyone takes Viagra or other things I do not recommend with this stack and has an awesome experience, please report back.

CILTEP is not intended to optimize every single system in the body or even the brain. That's another investigation on another thread. It's just designed to work on this camp/CREB metabolic pathway, thus possibly noticeably increasing learning and memory which, IMHO, is pretty significant in itself.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 02 June 2012 - 07:19 AM.

[medievil]

I tend to favor the methodology of carefully evaluating the scientific evidence, formulating theories, and mulling them for a fair amount of time before making small adjustments to my supplement stack.

That definatly is the way to go its not a definate list but more like suggestions to research or anecdotally try and then make a conclusions, thats my method of coming to conclusions.

You said it yourself; my post can lead to very interesting anecdotes!

[medievil]

I do approuch things with too much optimism but this actually has turned out to be a good thing in many cases haha:).

[medievil]

"CILTEP is not intended to optimize every single system in the body or even the brain. That's another investigation on another thread. It's just designed to work on this camp/CREB metabolic pathway, thus possibly noticeably increasing learning and memory which, IMHO, is pretty significant in itself." I looked at things that can enhance LTP but not really at that specific pathway ill continue discussion about other things in the ultimate stack thread.

[medievil]

Hmm i seem to have learned a damn lot the last day could be placebo tough as im a fast learner but my ability to remember shit after just reading over it seems improved and i seem to be able to put things togheter and hypothise things.

[medievil]

Hmm i seem to have learned a damn lot the last day could be placebo tough as im a fast learner but my ability to remember shit after just reading over it seems improved and i seem to be able to put things togheter and hypothise things.

[abelard lindsay]

Hmm i seem to have learned a damn lot the last day could be placebo tough as im a fast learner but my ability to remember shit after just reading over it seems improved and i seem to be able to put things togheter and hypothise things.

That's the thing about this stack. While on it, everything seems pretty normal except for the improved mood and general social ease. There's only modest increases in short term memory but I find I can absorb and process very large amounts of information without tiring while on it.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 02 June 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[gizmobrain]

I know Cichoric Acid is supposed to inhibit COMT, like quercetin. Does it inhibit PDE4? From the COMT inhibiting thread:

So far, I've got two great looking prospectives: rosmarinic acid and cichoric acid. Rosmarinic Acid is the best one so far, but unfortunately, it also raises GABA levels, so a need to take it with Ginkgo (high in Bilobalide) might arise if it's GABA-T inhibition is too strong. Cichoric acid seems better for cognition already low in anxiety and actually causes quite a cellular response, influencing an increase in acetylcholine receptor density. Unfortunately, it is not widely available in extract form apart from Echinacea, which fat people like me might want to veer away from the canabanoids.

I definitely find that rosmarinic acid spikes GABA to an uncomfortable level. This explains my previous posts where I would talk about the "swimmy" feeling.

I have a bottle of Echinacea + Goldenseal that I've been combining with this stack every now and again. They are whole herbs though, no mention of standardizing the extracts, so it's hard to tell how much active compound they contain. Interestingly, I bought this not for the Echinacea but for the Goldenseal, for its Prolyl endopeptidase (PREP) inhibiting quality. I've also tried Berberine for that as well. By themselves, I didn't notice much of a difference, but I should probably try them in combination with CILTEP at some point.

Also, since I've dropped the amphetamine and my Catuaba bark hasn't shown up yet, I hopped down to CVS and Walgreens and bought two products: Natural Balance Cobra Sexual Energy, and Applied Nutrition Magnum Blood-Flow Sexual Peak Performance. Sex pills as a cognitive booster, who'd have thought it?

I popped a couple of Cobra pills last night around 5pm, and the strongest effects didn't peak until around 8pm. It was kind of weird how delayed it was. Definitely stimulating. I felt pretty awesome really. I was hanging out with my fiancee (no sex) and I didn't have increased urges or erections or anything (for those worried about that, haha). This lasted until midnight, when I took some melatonin, drank a nice beer, and laid down to sleep.

I don't like that the Cobra pills have Yohimbe in them. That's why I stopped by Walgreens and bought the other product I mentioned. It's actually pretty impressive for a sex pill at Walgreens, though I hate that "proprietary blend" nonsense, where they don't tell how much of each ingredient it contains:

• L-Citrulline
• Epimedium Powder
• Muira Puama Extract
• Maca Extract
• Catuaba Extract
• Ginkgo Extract
• L-Theanine
• Theobromine
• Asian Ginseng Extract
• Cayenne Powder

Edited by zrbarnes, 02 June 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[medievil]

I ran out of aniracetam; added vitamin C to quercetin instead and upped my dose to 6 gram a day till i get my forskolin. Also take a stimulant, lets see how this pans out. Also loads of energy drinks for further PDE inhibition.

Edited by medievil, 02 June 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[gizmobrain]

I've been curious about adding some vitamin C, as I've seen other benefits of it posted around (I've also seen arguments about it).

I'm wondering if anyone wants to make a guess at the best method for stacking it with our current CILTEP regimen? Because there are many formulations of vitamin C out there. Just plain ol' L-ascorbic acid? Skip all the fancy Calcium L-Threonate and all that?

Would it interfere with the absorption of Forskolin/Quercetin if taken at the same time?

Edited by zrbarnes, 02 June 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[medievil]

Ive read in some potent vitc with quercetin makes it last longer but it was written by retarded idiots; it was ramblings about how quercetin will help addiction because it affects monoamine reuptake (neglible) so the addict has to take less and withdrawals are helped; yeah right.

I got a formula now a gram ascorbic acid with quercetin in the capsules should be fine.

[khemix]

I'm considering trying the Forskolin + Artichoke combo as I am in need of mental endurance.

My concern is cAMP build up in the PFC which would lead to impaired working memory. I know little about PDE4 (or any subtype really) or where they are located. How can I be sure I don't overflood this region? Also, boosting cAMP is essentially the same as boosting norepinephrine and this exacerbates my anxiety, will this be a problem?

Edited by khemix, 03 June 2012 - 02:54 AM.