2626 replies to this topic

[gizmobrain]

So far it seems that there is only one company that supplies D-serine in the US for supplementation. There is a link to it in the D-Serine thread.

[gizmobrain]

I currently have some uridine, pregnagolone, and D- serine on its way. I will update this thread next week with results.

[X_Danny_X]

Are you using the Pr-Spray for the Pregnalonone? I am now incline to get this D-Serine. I was being train today in work and I couldn't get it as fast others could get the math equations in order to calculate our bonuses.

One girl mentioned to just copy the numbers involved in the same page in order not to flip pages in order to work faster. She was already finished. I was saying to myself why didn't I think of that. We had to look at charts to get the values.

Maybe this is an omen for me to get some stuff that increases creativity, working memory/intelligence supplements, lol. I was upset by the whole situation and experience, though I have to admit I wasn't interested or paying alot of attention to the whole class. However, that was a wake up call for me.


D-Serine is more memory it seems like than compare to increasing cognitive enhancement/working memory.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 13 July 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

I'm a bit skeptical of the D-Serine hype right now.

As you know, in dopamine metabolism, skipping metabolic steps can lead to neurotoxicity. Similarly your body produces d-serine from glycine at a well-regulated rate which then interacts with the NMDARs. The NMDARs are well known to be very fragile and prone to excitotoxicity.

The D-Serine effect below is a little concerning....
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22609571

These results suggest that endogenous d-serine facilitates chronic pain-induced plastic changes of NMDAR mediated synaptic transmission in CeLC.

I've found lately that the 1200mg of NAC a day complements CILTEP quite well. I know that D-Serine is a co-agonist at NMDARs but I'd rather generate D-Serine through the normal metabolic channels via TMG for example.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 14 July 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[gizmobrain]

Basically, since dropping the Adderall, I've been trying to isolate why I can't seem to replicate my results with just caffeine and L-Phenylalanine alone. My research has lead me to NMDA hypo-activity as a possibility for the cause of my ADD symptoms. It seems to fit well (at some point I'll try to organize my research and post it).

Earlier I posted:

Lately, I've been learning about NMDA, and I've got a wild theory that needs to be tested. For those of us lacking motivation and are not anxious, I'm wondering if the issue at hand is hypo-NMDA activity.

That would go along nicely with this finding:

We have shown that the activation of adenylyl cyclase with forskolin enhanced the amplitude of EPSCs and abolished LTD. This finding is consistent with numerous studies showing that activation of adenylyl cyclase increases the probability of glutamate release (Chavez-Noriega & Stevens, 1994; Tzounopoulos et al. 1998).

Also, since I responded very well the motivating aspects of amphetamine (but couldn't take the side effects), I'm wondering if it's more because of this:

Systemic administration of d-amphetamine (4 mg/kg, ip) increased glutamate release by 500% in WT mice

So Forskolin and Adderall both increase glutamate, which as I understand, activates NMDA. Since I was able to drop from 60mg of Adderall to 5mg by combining with Forskolin, this seems to fit in with the NMDA hypoactivity theory.

I've been researching ways to increase NMDA activity, and hope to do so without causing damage by starting very small, and trying to find ways to prevent damage if I were to over-do it.

To sum it all up: It's a working theory, that has progressed to my human guinea pig phase. While my knowledge of the inner workings of the brain is growing, I am still not as proficient at interpreting studies as some of the folk around here. However, I do realize the danger of excitotoxicity. It will be short trials of each substance isolated, with small doses, I hope to be able to measure how my ADD-like symptoms are effected by increasing NMDA activation through various pathways. I will use my findings to build a safer stack through more conservative supplements.

Edited by zrbarnes, 14 July 2012 - 04:56 AM.

[medievil]

I'm a bit skeptical of the D-Serine hype right now.

As you know, in dopamine metabolism, skipping metabolic steps can lead to neurotoxicity. Similarly your body produces d-serine from glycine at a well-regulated rate which then interacts with the NMDARs. The NMDARs are well known to be very fragile and prone to excitotoxicity.

The D-Serine effect below is a little concerning....
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22609571

These results suggest that endogenous d-serine facilitates chronic pain-induced plastic changes of NMDAR mediated synaptic transmission in CeLC.

I've found lately that the 1200mg of NAC a day complements CILTEP quite well. I know that D-Serine is a co-agonist at NMDARs but I'd rather generate D-Serine through the normal metabolic channels via TMG for example.

Im quite skeptical generating d-serine that way will work, it still isnt a real nmda agonist itself it just keeps the nmda receptors open wich limits its ability to induce toxiticy, besides that its imo possible to add in neuroprotective stuff to prevent any possible damage.

[medievil]

Im completely with you on the nmda hypoactivity theory, in fact ive been posting for a while that i beleive adhd relates to the negatives in shizophrenia wich is caused by glutamate hypoactivity, for several reasons, id be curious what results you will get.

Personally i found no alternative to stims for anhedonia tough but i want to experiment with glutaminergics again.

Frangible on mind and muscle got me onto this idea, he posted some more info how they exactly relate ill try to find a link to one of he's threads.

Edited by medievil, 14 July 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[gbpackers]

So i've been lurking for a long time and read this entire thread. I was excited about trying this CILTEP stack but got worried by some of the posts that said it might not be the safest stack. Also turned off by the fact that it makes you tired after continued use. I already have an extremely hard time getting out of bed and keeping myself awake to do work. What's the current consensus on CILTEP? I might still give it a shot because I have all the racetams, alcar, etc. all I need is the forskollin, artichoke, and L-phenylalanine.

What do you guys think about adding 300mg alpha gpc, 500mg alcar, and 400-800mg piracetam + maybe 400mg oxiracetam to this stack?

edit:
Also is the following still the best dosing protocol:

Solaray Forskollin: 1 cap
Now Artichoke: 1-2 caps
Now L-Phenylalanine: 1 cap

If adding the alpha gpc + alcar.. should I take it an hour before the above CILTEP protocol? Usually I take 300mg alpha gpc and 500mg alcar and then 400-800mg piracetam and 750mg oxiracetam.

Edited by gbpackers, 19 July 2012 - 05:59 AM.

[NastyNoble32]

Gbpackers,

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm ready to kick my addys to the curb but need something to replace them....that works if even a little.

NN32

[gizmobrain]

So i've been lurking for a long time and read this entire thread. I was excited about trying this CILTEP stack but got worried by some of the posts that said it might not be the safest stack. Also turned off by the fact that it makes you tired after continued use. I already have an extremely hard time getting out of bed and keeping myself awake to do work. What's the current consensus on CILTEP? I might still give it a shot because I have all the racetams, alcar, etc. all I need is the forskollin, artichoke, and L-phenylalanine.

What do you guys think about adding 300mg alpha gpc, 500mg alcar, and 400-800mg piracetam + maybe 400mg oxiracetam to this stack?

edit:
Also is the following still the best dosing protocol:

Solaray Forskollin: 1 cap
Now Artichoke: 1-2 caps
Now L-Phenylalanine: 1 cap

If adding the alpha gpc + alcar.. should I take it an hour before the above CILTEP protocol? Usually I take 300mg alpha gpc and 500mg alcar and then 400-800mg piracetam and 750mg oxiracetam.

I'd say go with the Solaray Forskolin, and take the weekends off, and you probably won't have problems with the sleepies. Even better is to get a 20% extract and split it into 5mg doses; this is a bit inconvenient, but it's better on your liver. Unless your liver is already compromised, it probably shouldn't be a problem. If it is, or if you just want to be safe, I'd recommend adding Milk Thistle to your stack.

The dosing might take a bit of trial and error, but generally speaking, those dosages should work. If I were you, I would get used to the CILTEP part of your stack first, then when you feel comfortable (maybe a week?), add back in the other stuff. That way you can fine-tune it if something doesn't feel right.

Also, do you use Adderall because of lack of motivation/focus, or because of hyperactivity? If lack of motivation (like me), I found it hard to replicate the initial results of CILTEP unless I combined it with 5mg of Adderall (coming from 60!). Some people have successfully used caffeine, but using caffeine only gave me more focus and energy, but not much in the way of motivation.

If you use Adderall to control hyperactivity, I would recommend adding N-Acetyl-Cysteine to your stack instead of caffeine (maybe Jarrow Formulas, N-A-C Sustain).

[OpaqueMind]

I'd say go with the Solaray Forskolin, and take the weekends off, and you probably won't have problems with the sleepies. Even better is to get a 20% extract and split it into 5mg doses; this is a bit inconvenient, but it's better on your liver.

Hey Mr. Z did you find 5mg total active Forskolin was the sweet spot in terms of sustainability/immediate effect or both? Also do you take both artichoke extract and forskolin on an empty stomach? Thanks

[gbpackers]

Gbpackers,

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm ready to kick my addys to the curb but need something to replace them....that works if even a little.

NN32

I was actually fine last semester with just the racetams, but I'm currently studying for a big admissions exam in October and I don't want to leave any stones unturned and want to make sure I take advantage of any mental boost available to me because the slightest increase in my score will mean substantial increase in scholarship funds.

So i've been lurking for a long time and read this entire thread. I was excited about trying this CILTEP stack but got worried by some of the posts that said it might not be the safest stack. Also turned off by the fact that it makes you tired after continued use. I already have an extremely hard time getting out of bed and keeping myself awake to do work. What's the current consensus on CILTEP? I might still give it a shot because I have all the racetams, alcar, etc. all I need is the forskollin, artichoke, and L-phenylalanine.

What do you guys think about adding 300mg alpha gpc, 500mg alcar, and 400-800mg piracetam + maybe 400mg oxiracetam to this stack?

edit:
Also is the following still the best dosing protocol:

Solaray Forskollin: 1 cap
Now Artichoke: 1-2 caps
Now L-Phenylalanine: 1 cap

If adding the alpha gpc + alcar.. should I take it an hour before the above CILTEP protocol? Usually I take 300mg alpha gpc and 500mg alcar and then 400-800mg piracetam and 750mg oxiracetam.

I'd say go with the Solaray Forskolin, and take the weekends off, and you probably won't have problems with the sleepies. Even better is to get a 20% extract and split it into 5mg doses; this is a bit inconvenient, but it's better on your liver. Unless your liver is already compromised, it probably shouldn't be a problem. If it is, or if you just want to be safe, I'd recommend adding Milk Thistle to your stack.

The dosing might take a bit of trial and error, but generally speaking, those dosages should work. If I were you, I would get used to the CILTEP part of your stack first, then when you feel comfortable (maybe a week?), add back in the other stuff. That way you can fine-tune it if something doesn't feel right.

Also, do you use Adderall because of lack of motivation/focus, or because of hyperactivity? If lack of motivation (like me), I found it hard to replicate the initial results of CILTEP unless I combined it with 5mg of Adderall (coming from 60!). Some people have successfully used caffeine, but using caffeine only gave me more focus and energy, but not much in the way of motivation.

If you use Adderall to control hyperactivity, I would recommend adding N-Acetyl-Cysteine to your stack instead of caffeine (maybe Jarrow Formulas, N-A-C Sustain).

Thank you for that quick response. I already ordered the solaray forskollin and the two other components by NOW foods. I recently had bloodwork done and my liver was in normal shape. I do not use Adderall though I suspect I have been living with ADHD (the inattentive type) for my entire life (I am 25 years old). I believe I have actually gotten used to it as I am able to force myself to be motivated to complete important tasks such as studying for exams. However I get distracted very easily and often don't realize that I have gotten distracted. Always find myself re-reading dense reading material and have to get up frequently when studying and wander around and constantly check facebook without even realizing it. Would you still recommend NAC based on those symptoms? I don't drink coffee btw but I do drink 2-3 cups of green tea. I've been reading lots of good reviews on Noopept on reddit and was wondering what was your opinion on combining that with the CILTEP? Ofcourse, I'm definitely going to try the CILTEP first on its own for a couple weeks.

[golden1]

Medievil, I personally think you are 100% right on glutamate being key to ADD, excess could even result in the hyperactivity side and not enough could result in the inattentive type..
I take this knowledge from the fact that benzodiazepines are closly tied to glutamate levels more so than much else and having been in slight w/d(before it starts to tire my brain before I notice) that I have much more attention and focus/drive.. then as the w/d would get worse and worse I would lose all ability to concentrate with millions of thoughts distracting me. I am almost certain, not to generalize as I realize the wrongness of doing so, but that during benzo w/d serotonin increases(or possibly decreases.. studies say increases in serotonin during w/d so..) cause the mood instabilities/depression/bipolarness, excess nor-epinephrine causes the physical side effects, and excess glutamate gives the feeling of your brain being overdriven and fried as well as a general discomfort/distraction that makes work impossible. Acetylcholine probably also increases the discomfort. Anyway, I can't really back those up with out looking up every study I've read on benzos and recalling which were relevant.. I've read just about everything on benzos and w/d in an attempt to taper with less discomfort. Also, Ketamine gets rid of the feeling of excess glutamate for 40mins or so(I had to test during slight w/d lol.. but wow did it help, just wish it lasted longer or was legal. Med, have you tried a benzo antagonist, I think ginkgo is one, but not sure how strong? Or would that mess with the rest of your symptoms too much?

Just trying to puzzle some things together, if you have any input

Edited by golden1, 19 July 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[NastyNoble32]

Also, do you use Adderall because of lack of motivation/focus, or because of hyperactivity? If lack of motivation (like me), I found it hard to replicate the initial results of CILTEP unless I combined it with 5mg of Adderall (coming from 60!). Some people have successfully used caffeine, but using caffeine only gave me more focus and energy, but not much in the way of motivation.

If you use Adderall to control hyperactivity, I would recommend adding N-Acetyl-Cysteine to your stack instead of caffeine (maybe Jarrow Formulas, N-A-C Sustain).

I use Adderall for hyper-focus (i.e.spending hours searching for a way to NOT hyper-focus), motivation, focus, inattentiveness, hyperactivity, etc. I started with 10mg XR and worked up to 50 and now trying IR. I get different results every day so I would like to eliminate it altogether. I'm considering a non-stimulant type but would rather go all natural if possible.

I will give CILTEP a shot and add NAC. Any thoughts on CDP-Choline, zinc, copper, or B6?

Thanks in advance!
NN32

[magta39]

I would just say be conservative in adding CDP choline as it increases dopamine levels and/or dopamine receptor sensitivity/density

[Cephalon]

Hey Guys,

Regarding the CDP question above, I find CDP Choline is one of the best nootropics available. While your concerns are not without reason, Magta39, I found CDP to go extremly well with Amphetamine. I always used 250mg 30-60 minutes after Ritalins are Amphetamines initial effects started. CDP Choline takes both to a new level of focus. But being conservative about adding new supps and dosing is always a good idea!

Medievil mentioned MPA to be a good substance for the Dopamine part we are looking at. I could imagine it is great for that purpose and not too bad on the system either. But at least in me it's not completely sideeffect free either, so I'm still looking for an alternative. The preworkout supp Craze while I think being a great supp, wouldn't be so well for this purpose too. Wouldn't be able to take it everyday.

Do you guys think Selegiline would be an option? Say in 2.5 - 5 mg a day? There should not be a dopamine spike, not sure if we need one, or just elevated amine levels.

Just read that long term potentiation is also mediated by other receptors than the dopamine receptors like beta adrenergic and 5ht4 which triggers cAMP through Serotonin or other lingans.

[medievil]

On first impression MPA goes really well with it.

Yes, ne plays a big role too wich is why a stimulant really adds in well, otherwise tyrosine with a nri can be an option.

[gbpackers]

Hey Guys,

Regarding the CDP question above, I find CDP Choline is one of the best nootropics available. While your concerns are not without reason, Magta39, I found CDP to go extremly well with Amphetamine. I always used 250mg 30-60 minutes after Ritalins are Amphetamines initial effects started. CDP Choline takes both to a new level of focus. But being conservative about adding new supps and dosing is always a good idea!

Medievil mentioned MPA to be a good substance for the Dopamine part we are looking at. I could imagine it is great for that purpose and not too bad on the system either. But at least in me it's not completely sideeffect free either, so I'm still looking for an alternative. The preworkout supp Craze while I think being a great supp, wouldn't be so well for this purpose too. Wouldn't be able to take it everyday.

Do you guys think Selegiline would be an option? Say in 2.5 - 5 mg a day? There should not be a dopamine spike, not sure if we need one, or just elevated amine levels.

Just read that long term potentiation is also mediated by other receptors than the dopamine receptors like beta adrenergic and 5ht4 which triggers cAMP through Serotonin or other lingans.

How would you describe the difference with CDP and alpha gpc? Would you rather use cdp over alpha gpc?

[golden1]

Hey Guys,

Regarding the CDP question above, I find CDP Choline is one of the best nootropics available. While your concerns are not without reason, Magta39, I found CDP to go extremly well with Amphetamine. I always used 250mg 30-60 minutes after Ritalins are Amphetamines initial effects started. CDP Choline takes both to a new level of focus. But being conservative about adding new supps and dosing is always a good idea!

Medievil mentioned MPA to be a good substance for the Dopamine part we are looking at. I could imagine it is great for that purpose and not too bad on the system either. But at least in me it's not completely sideeffect free either, so I'm still looking for an alternative. The preworkout supp Craze while I think being a great supp, wouldn't be so well for this purpose too. Wouldn't be able to take it everyday.

Do you guys think Selegiline would be an option? Say in 2.5 - 5 mg a day? There should not be a dopamine spike, not sure if we need one, or just elevated amine levels.

Just read that long term potentiation is also mediated by other receptors than the dopamine receptors like beta adrenergic and 5ht4 which triggers cAMP through Serotonin or other lingans.

How would you describe the difference with CDP and alpha gpc? Would you rather use cdp over alpha gpc?

For me, alpha-gpc did nothing noticeable at all even after a bottle of 120caps of 500mg or something. On the other hand CDP-choline fills me with a sense of wellbeing and contentedness while also improving energy and giving a calm alertness.. and I've had those effects just keep growing as long as I've taken it(probably around a month max I've consequtively dosed before and it starts feeling like a miracle chemical. Hahahah and then I usually run out and wait to buy more and have to start all over again. (250mg produces noticable effects, and is the normal dose I used/use)

[magta39]

I think it depends alot on the levels of COMT enzyme you have: warrior or worrier? For me alpha GPC gives me a calm clear head and reduces my anxiety, one study I read showed it increases GABA in the brain. On the other hand CDP choline, which works more on the dopamine receptors gives me heart pounding anxiety. I have to stay away from anything that increases dopamine.

[Cephalon]

It's amazing how different we all are I can not stand Alpha GPC since it gives me all the side effects even regular choline won't even cause ( stomach dicomfort, sweating, headache, depression) while CDP is for me like Golden1 said. It causes even a slight sense of wellbeing. Great stuff

[medievil]

Prozac
Quercetin
Forskolin
D aspartic acid
MPA
Phenibut
Etizolam

This combo made me damn motivated and efficient today, im very impressed with this combo.

MPA also seemed to be acting ages longer then normal, ill see how this continious.

[gbpackers]

Hey Guys,

Regarding the CDP question above, I find CDP Choline is one of the best nootropics available. While your concerns are not without reason, Magta39, I found CDP to go extremly well with Amphetamine. I always used 250mg 30-60 minutes after Ritalins are Amphetamines initial effects started. CDP Choline takes both to a new level of focus. But being conservative about adding new supps and dosing is always a good idea!

Medievil mentioned MPA to be a good substance for the Dopamine part we are looking at. I could imagine it is great for that purpose and not too bad on the system either. But at least in me it's not completely sideeffect free either, so I'm still looking for an alternative. The preworkout supp Craze while I think being a great supp, wouldn't be so well for this purpose too. Wouldn't be able to take it everyday.

Do you guys think Selegiline would be an option? Say in 2.5 - 5 mg a day? There should not be a dopamine spike, not sure if we need one, or just elevated amine levels.

Just read that long term potentiation is also mediated by other receptors than the dopamine receptors like beta adrenergic and 5ht4 which triggers cAMP through Serotonin or other lingans.

How would you describe the difference with CDP and alpha gpc? Would you rather use cdp over alpha gpc?

For me, alpha-gpc did nothing noticeable at all even after a bottle of 120caps of 500mg or something. On the other hand CDP-choline fills me with a sense of wellbeing and contentedness while also improving energy and giving a calm alertness.. and I've had those effects just keep growing as long as I've taken it(probably around a month max I've consequtively dosed before and it starts feeling like a miracle chemical. Hahahah and then I usually run out and wait to buy more and have to start all over again. (250mg produces noticable effects, and is the normal dose I used/use)

I think it depends alot on the levels of COMT enzyme you have: warrior or worrier? For me alpha GPC gives me a calm clear head and reduces my anxiety, one study I read showed it increases GABA in the brain. On the other hand CDP choline, which works more on the dopamine receptors gives me heart pounding anxiety. I have to stay away from anything that increases dopamine.

That's interesting, I have a feeling I may be more like magta39. I've been taking alpha gpc for a long time now, and I don't really notice anything from it - good or bad. I take it an hour before I take my racetams and then after that I notice a slight clear headed feeling and a little pick up in mood. I notice it does make me a little bit more sociable actually - piracetam that is when taken an hour after alpha gpc. I'm still wondering if I should try CDP Choline since I don't feel anything from just alpha gpc on it's own. The feeling of wellbeing sounds pretty cool to me though I feel like I already have it right now after my dose of piracetam.

Back on to CILTEP - my forskollin, artichoke, and L-phenylalanine just came in. I'm about to take 1 pill of each, it's been about 30 minutes since I took my piracetam dose, but I just can't wait to try this stuff so I'm going to do it :D... tomorrow I'll try the CILTEP by itself

Edited by gbpackers, 20 July 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Cephalon]

Hey Guys,

Regarding the CDP question above, I find CDP Choline is one of the best nootropics available. While your concerns are not without reason, Magta39, I found CDP to go extremly well with Amphetamine. I always used 250mg 30-60 minutes after Ritalins are Amphetamines initial effects started. CDP Choline takes both to a new level of focus. But being conservative about adding new supps and dosing is always a good idea!

Medievil mentioned MPA to be a good substance for the Dopamine part we are looking at. I could imagine it is great for that purpose and not too bad on the system either. But at least in me it's not completely sideeffect free either, so I'm still looking for an alternative. The preworkout supp Craze while I think being a great supp, wouldn't be so well for this purpose too. Wouldn't be able to take it everyday.

Do you guys think Selegiline would be an option? Say in 2.5 - 5 mg a day? There should not be a dopamine spike, not sure if we need one, or just elevated amine levels.

Just read that long term potentiation is also mediated by other receptors than the dopamine receptors like beta adrenergic and 5ht4 which triggers cAMP through Serotonin or other lingans.

How would you describe the difference with CDP and alpha gpc? Would you rather use cdp over alpha gpc?

So to answer your question: CDP by length!! Alpha GPC did nothing to me other then some sideeffects I reported. CDP Choline works like a charm, though sometimes I (imagine?) feel a little nervous when taking CDP in around 500mg doses for a couple days, which I adressed to the raise in HPA axis activity. CDP Choline has some influence on thyroid hormones and cortisol. But that faded somehow - now I just feel perfectly fine on CDP Choline. The raise in wellbeing, while it's there, is of somewhat subtil nature though. Don't expect too much. Better to be positivly supprosed, right? But the effects of CDP while under the influence of either an amphetamine/ DRI or modafinil ar not neglectable imo. I feel them really strong like a fresh breaze of clearness or like said, taking the amphetamine focus on even a higher level.

[hephaestus]

Has anyone taking this stack for a long period tried supplementing glutamine after noticing a drop in effectiveness? The wiki page on glutamate says it is an important component of LTP:

http://en.wikipedia....eurotransmitter

I have been experiencing some serious brain fog lately that wasn't fixed by supplementing more choline, and I now believe it is due to a glutamate deficiency caused by combining amphetamines and piracetam. This is based in part on this thread about supplementing glutamine and calcium with piracetam, which I was reading last night:

http://www.longecity...nefits-from-it/

I've been off the amphetamines for two days and have taken a bunch of glutamine today, and have noticed a dramatic recovery. WebMD says adults shouldn't take more than 40g/day, which seems like a ton. That is nearly half of a bottle of l-glutamine 1000 from GNC. I've probably taken 10-15g today.

http://www.webmd.com...tName=GLUTAMINE

[gizmobrain]

I've not been supplementing with Glutamine (though I do have some L-Glutamic Acid lying around)... but I have been trying to figure out if glutamate is the missing piece for me, since I have not been able to figure out how to perfectly replicate the motivating effects since I have dropped the final 5mg of Adderall out of my CILTEP stack.

Quoting myself from earlier in this thread:

Lately, I've been learning about NMDA, and I've got a wild theory that needs to be tested. For those of us lacking motivation and are not anxious, I'm wondering if the issue at hand is hypo-NMDA activity.

That would go along nicely with this finding:

We have shown that the activation of adenylyl cyclase with forskolin enhanced the amplitude of EPSCs and abolished LTD. This finding is consistent with numerous studies showing that activation of adenylyl cyclase increases the probability of glutamate release (Chavez-Noriega & Stevens, 1994; Tzounopoulos et al. 1998).

Also, since I responded very well the motivating aspects of amphetamine (but couldn't take the side effects), I'm wondering if it's more because of this:

Systemic administration of d-amphetamine (4 mg/kg, ip) increased glutamate release by 500% in WT mice

CILTEP "increases the probability of glutamate release". Therefore, supplementing with a precursor to glutamate might be a good idea.

The problem is that I still don't quite understand how the brain deals with just spare glutamate floating around. Will it down-regulate Glutamate receptors? Will it restock the glutamate supply? Will it cause excitotoxicity? What about supplementing a glutamatergic agent and glycine (or another glycine receptor agonist) together? Would the effects cancel out or would it instead allow the brain to have all the raw material it needs to prevent damage? Then there is the pre-synaptic vs post-synaptic sites, kinate receptors, ion channels...

Dear sweet goodness, the brain is complex. I really need to just sit down and read an up-to-date "Neuroscience for amateurs" book.

[X_Danny_X]

what is this with the CILTEP stack affecting the liver? What dose is recommended then? I use the scoop of Querecin, well half a scoop which is about 250mg and Forkslin half of scoop as well which is 250mg as well. is this too much?

[golden1]

I was under the impression that a glutamine/glutamate deficiency was almost impossible with any sort of semi-good diet? Even if you were to use amphetamines/piracetam/etc? It's interesting you had effects from taking some, I have 8ounces of l-glutamine so I might try to see if it does indeed do much.. I know its common in the bodybuilding area of the internets(lol), I bought it to see if I could take it with p-5-p such other co-factors to enhance gaba production, I'm not sure exactly if it had any effect, glutamate or gaba wise..but I will try again and see.( once again wanted to see if I could lower side effects from tapering benzos.. lol.. I try so much shit.. its almost rather discouraging how little anything helps.)

[Reformed-Redan]

Anyone know if response amplitude or response duration is more important for LTP? Eg. If you have a stronger response amplitude from stimuli, then the synaptic strength should be stronger? What about response duration?

[RS3RS]

Ordered quercetin and forskolin... Amazon loves me these days. Will be reporting my results with general cognition improvement and (hopefully) effects on ADHD-PI / dysthymia. Not sure what to expect with this stack in those areas.

I'll be combining it with MAO-B selective doses of sublingual selegiline, and a dopamine agent that is yet to be determined. I had been using DLPA with selegiline, but based on advice in this thread will be dropping the DLPA with this stack. DLPA worked fairly well for dysthymia, but hasn't touched the ADHD-PI, so I continue my quest. Will probably try nicotine, low doses of caffeine (selegiline makes me overly sensitive anyway) and/or l-phenylalanine.

I'm going to ramp up slowly to avoid overstimulation. Are lower doses of quercetin / forskolin advisable if combined with selegiline? I do have to cut my caffeine intake to 1/3 or so to avoid overstimulation while on selegiline.

Thanks, and would be interested in hearing if anyone else had success in the ADHD realm (even though I know that's not the indicated use).

Edited by RS3RS, 22 July 2012 - 09:30 PM.