2626 replies to this topic

[jayfoxpox]

anyone tried Drotaverine , Mesembrine , Rolipram or Roflumilast?
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Mesembrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolipram
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Drotaverine
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Roflumilast

I chose these ones out of this list from wiki and ignored the other ones because they seemed to have some bad side effects or they inhibit 3 or 5.
http://en.wikipedia....ibitor#Examples

Btw , is there an importance we need to make on the difference between PDE4A and PDE4B?

Edited by jayfoxpox, 31 July 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[lourdaud]

anyone tried Drotaverine , Mesembrine , Rolipram or Roflumilast?
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Mesembrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolipram
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Drotaverine
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Roflumilast

I chose these ones out of this list from wiki and ignored the other ones because they seemed to have some bad side effects or they inhibit 3 or 5.
http://en.wikipedia....ibitor#Examples

Btw , is there an importance we need to make on the difference between PDE4A and PDE4B?

I'd love to see a source for rolipram! Don't know what the prize might be though, any ideas?

[Raza]

The PDE3 Ic50 of meribendan, a potent PDE3 inhibtior, are .05 micro Moles or about 100x more potent than Quercetin. So anyway, has anyone been taking Quercetin with this stack for a while? I find it a little strong. Sometimes I drink an energy drink with Quercetin in the afternoon if I'm starting to slow down and it has quite an effect. If I drink two of these energy drinks my stomach does not like it at all. Maybe I'll switch things up and try a dose of <500mg of Quercetin for a while and see how it goes.

I've been taking 500 mg Quercetin/ 5mg forskolin for two, three months now. No signs of hearing loss or lowered working memory (my DnB scores have been gradually increasing with practise, with no drops when I started this) or other adverse effects and a very minor stimulant feeling... I've a very laid back personality that can usually use more stimulation, so the that effect and the long duration attracted me to it over other PDE4 inhibitors and I haven't had the urge to switch up. If anything, I've been wanting to try increasing Quercetin to 1000mg.

Definitely, and I'm not in any way suggesting anyone in this thread shouldn't take this stack based on my single anecdotal experience. I'm sure my experience is a quite rare side effect occuring in a small percent of the population. I just happen to be one of those people, and I'm not willing to continue experimenting if it's affecting my hearing. But if I were experiencing no hearing issues (like you guys), I would definitely continue. Like I said, I'm sure this only affects a small portion of users.

Edit: For what it's worth, I was taking 500 mg Quercetin and 2x 100 mg Forskohlii (only 10% extract) once per day with 200 mg caffeine.

With hearing loss mostly (exclusively?) happening from PDE5-targetted cAMP zones, chances are you'd reduce this risk a lot just lowering your forskolin dose, since that and caffeine affect cAMP across the board. A quarter of what you take has worked for some of us, and unless you're very heavily tolerant 150 mgs of caffeine should serve most purposes too.

Edited by Raza, 01 August 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[CIMN]

i found this on allosteric modulator of pde4 http://www.nature.co...l/nbt.1598.html, it shows some structures. would be interesting to have something like that with a pde4 inhibitor. a negative allosteric modulator would be preferred correct me if im wrong, because you are trying to inhibit pde4 right?

[hephaestus]

Discovered something interesting yesterday that I haven't really seen discussed in this thread.

https://en.wikipedia...ine_hydroxylase

Long term regulation of tyrosine hydroxylase can also be mediated by phosphorylation mechanisms. Hormones (e.g. glucocorticoids), drugs (e.g. cocaine), or second messengers such as cAMP increase tyrosine hydroxylase transcription. Increase in tyrosine hydroxylase activity due to phosphorylation can be sustained by nicotine for up to 48 hours. Tyrosine hydroxylase activity is regulated chronically (days) by protein synthesis.

Tyrosine hydroxylase rate limits the conversion of tyrosine to dopamine and I believe many of the effects of this stack, including the potentiation of stimulants, are due to an increased rate of dopamine synthesis. I had been feeling pretty crappy after taking 10mg amphetamine salts two days ago. I believe my dopamine was pretty depleted after a month on the amphetamines, I actually felt better a few days that I didn't take them, and was trying to figure out why. I didn't take any amphetamines yesterday and took this stack along with plenty of ACh prodrugs, and it hit me like a pile of amphetamines, despite not having taken any at all.

This MoA would explain the potentiation of stimulants along with the apparent decreased efficacy of piracetam and 'lowered creativity'.

[hephaestus]

The COMT inhibition of quercetin has been discussed a few times but I took 1g artichoke extract, is it also a COMT inhibitor?

[medievil]

Has anyone been using curcumin? I use it with forskolin instead as i ran out of quercetin and got loads of it, appears to work as well for me but thats just an impression as i havent been doing any studying to fully gaug the benefits of increased LTP.

Also take gotu kola wich also raises cAMP and should be synergetic, im planning to experiment with the addition of horney goat weed wich contains a PDE5 inhibitor wich should also show some synergism as increased nitric oxide potentiates LTP.

I dont notice any negatives with aniracetam tough.. again i didnt test this combo well with doing some studying but i still remain the clarity of mind and the openness feeling this combo provides (i beleive the other guy reported feeling sluggy and sleepy with ani added?)

Also got some mucuna lying around wich may be better then tyrosine, however both dont target ne wich has been overlooked here by those looking for a stim alternative, ne raises cAMP and increases LTP.
I beleive ginkgo was a nri but could be wrong.

[hephaestus]

I don't think you want too much PDE5 inhibition and vasodilation, but you could also try l-arginine for NO/vasodilation, it is a popular bodybuilding supplement. DA is metabolized into NE by way of dopamine beta hydroxylase:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine

Increased cAMP leads to increased tyrosine hydroxylase transcription which leads to increased DA synthesis, which presumably leads to increased NE. Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme for metabolizing tyrosine into DA. Not sure what the rate limiting is like for phenylalanine hydroxylase, but it seems much slower than tyrosine -> DA with CILTEP.

[medievil]

There's a difference btw too much and the right level of PDE5 inhibition, im sure at normal doses of horney goat weed we can harvest some benefits without much downsides.

The craze preworkout i take pretty much covers no increase tough, also if im correct arginine aint that usefull to boost no (dont remember, either tolerance or just not effective because of some feedback mechanism).

Your correct however i beleive you can get more out of ne by adding some kind of nri.

Catuaba (for da reuptake) and ginkgo for ne uptake could perhaps a good adjunct combo for those avoiding stimulants.

anyone tried Drotaverine , Mesembrine , Rolipram or Roflumilast?
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Mesembrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolipram
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Drotaverine
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Roflumilast

I chose these ones out of this list from wiki and ignored the other ones because they seemed to have some bad side effects or they inhibit 3 or 5.
http://en.wikipedia....ibitor#Examples

Btw , is there an importance we need to make on the difference between PDE4A and PDE4B?

That guy with that weird brown monster on he's avatar used roflumilast with forskolin and said it paralelled the experiences posted here.

I beleive with quercetin etc we got good PDE4 inhibitors available and the synthetic selective one's wont be much better but im not sure.

[hephaestus]

I was under the impression that arginine is the primary ingredient in NO boosting supplements. It is a direct precursor to NO.

https://en.wikipedia...inine#Precursor

Primary NO supplement in craze is citruline:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Citrulline

Citrulline is made from ornithine and carbamoyl phosphate in one of the central reactions in the urea cycle. It is also produced from arginine as a by-product of the reaction catalyzed by NOS family (NOS; EC 1.14.13.39).[3] Arginine is first oxidized into N-hydroxyl-arginine, which is then further oxidized to citrulline concomitant with release of nitric oxide.

Edited by hephaestus, 03 August 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[X_Danny_X]

Can someone please answer. Why is the CILTEP stack kind of dangerous? I heard it puts some strain on the liver? So far I am taking it.

[gizmobrain]

Can someone please answer. Why is the CILTEP stack kind of dangerous? I heard it puts some strain on the liver? So far I am taking it.

Coleus' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22729658']Coleus forskohlii root extract (CFE) represented by its bioactive constituent 'forskolin' is popularly used as a natural weight-lowering product, but the association of its use with liver-related risks is very limited. In the present study, the effect of standardized CFE with 10% forskolin on liver function of mice was examined. Mice were given 0-5% CFE in an AIN93G-based diet for 3-5 weeks. Food intake, body weights, relative organ weights and liver marker enzymes [aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), and alkaline phosphatase (ALP)] combined with histophatological analysis were assessed. CFE (0-0.5%) only had minimal effects on food intake and body weight whereas a significant difference was observed in mice receiving the highest dose (5% CFE). The extract 0.05-5% dose-dependently decreased visceral fat weight by between 16% and 63%, and a dose-dependent several folds increase was observed in liver weights and plasma AST, ALT and ALP activities with quick onset apparent after only 1 week of 0.5% CFE intake. The hepatic effect persisted throughout the 3-weeks course but was restored towards normalization within 1 week after withdrawal of treatment. Liver histology of mice fed 0.5% CFE for 3 weeks showed hepatocyte hypertrophy and fat deposition. In contrast, none of the hepatic responses measured were altered when mice were given a diet containing pure forskolin alone at the dose corresponding to its content in 0.5% CFE. The present study clearly indicated that forskolin was not involved in the CFE-induced hepatotoxicity and was caused by other unidentified constituents in CFE which warrants further studies.

→ source (external link)

There is some compound in coleus forskohlii root extract that causes increased liver enzymes, but it isn't forskolin. So, while the liver enzymes returned to normal after a week of discontinuation (meaning that there probably not permanent damage), it is best to use as little as possible.

[X_Danny_X]

Im confused a little bit. You mention "it isn't forskolin". So that means that when sold as a supplement, that it is safe to consumed?

[abelard lindsay]

Im confused a little bit. You mention "it isn't forskolin". So that means that when sold as a supplement, that it is safe to consumed?

Forskolin is the active ingredient in the medicinal plant Coleus forskohlii which has been used in traditional Indian Aryuvedic medicine for thousands of years. The parts of the plant that are not the active ingredient can cause elevated liver enzyme levels that go back to normal levels after the supplement is no longer taken. This is why it is healthier to use a supplement that has a high level of only the active ingredient, Forskolin, and not the rest of the plant.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 04 August 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[gizmobrain]

Speaking of which, if I can get a few people interested in buying a gram (or more) each, I can buy and repackage some 98% forskolin extract for ~$10/gram. Also, if anyone is looking for a bargain, I have 5 bottles of unopened 20% extract.

PM me if interested.

[chroncile]

There's a difference btw too much and the right level of PDE5 inhibition, im sure at normal doses of horney goat weed we can harvest some benefits without much downsides.

The craze preworkout i take pretty much covers no increase tough, also if im correct arginine aint that usefull to boost no (dont remember, either tolerance or just not effective because of some feedback mechanism).

Your correct however i beleive you can get more out of ne by adding some kind of nri.

Catuaba (for da reuptake) and ginkgo for ne uptake could perhaps a good adjunct combo for those avoiding stimulants.

anyone tried Drotaverine , Mesembrine , Rolipram or Roflumilast?
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Mesembrine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolipram
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Drotaverine
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Roflumilast

I chose these ones out of this list from wiki and ignored the other ones because they seemed to have some bad side effects or they inhibit 3 or 5.
http://en.wikipedia....ibitor#Examples

Btw , is there an importance we need to make on the difference between PDE4A and PDE4B?

That guy with that weird brown monster on he's avatar used roflumilast with forskolin and said it paralelled the experiences posted here.

I beleive with quercetin etc we got good PDE4 inhibitors available and the synthetic selective one's wont be much better but im not sure.

Ever since I read that Ginkgo could cause stroke I stayed away from it.

Do you know of any other herbs that enhance dopaminergic and/or norepinephrine transmission?

[medievil]

St johns worth inhibits both ne and da reuptake indirectly however also GABA wich negate some effects we are looking for in this thread.

Cant think of any other herbs acting as nri's, maybe low doses of ephedrine would be a good idea (its allright in low doses).

[medievil]

Guys, i was thinking of making several threads that pretty much discuss one particular goal (like in this one LTP) and in those threads discuss all compounds and synergy's that are relevant for this.

It would give us a good overview, and also that way we could try to see how the differened goals can be united by combining the info found in the differened threads.

As an example this combo may impair working memory, with a thread dedicated to that we would have enough info to try and combine it with stuff that works for a differened goal.

As an example this thread with a completely differened goal, regaring a mental issue.
http://www.longecity...made-about-bdb/

With this things wont be scattered in threads like (i want nootropics but also improve memory etc..) but promote more of a approuch to get ppl to work on their worst issue first, and then try to achieve a next goal.

Edited by medievil, 04 August 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[Major Legend]

yeah the goal orientated approach seems to work and gets everyone to contribute their two cents

[X_Danny_X]

Im confused a little bit. You mention "it isn't forskolin". So that means that when sold as a supplement, that it is safe to consumed?

Forskolin is the active ingredient in the medicinal plant Coleus forskohlii which has been used in traditional Indian Aryuvedic medicine for thousands of years. The parts of the plant that are not the active ingredient can cause elevated liver enzyme levels that go back to normal levels after the supplement is no longer taken. This is why it is healthier to use a supplement that has a high level of only the active ingredient, Forskolin, and not the rest of the plant.

I see, man I have Beyond A Century's Coleus Forskohlii. It says it is 10% Coleus Forskohlin. Is there any product that is just the Forskohlin.

[brainslugged]

Has anyone been using curcumin? I use it with forskolin instead as i ran out of quercetin and got loads of it, appears to work as well for me but thats just an impression as i havent been doing any studying to fully gaug the benefits of increased LTP.

Also take gotu kola wich also raises cAMP and should be synergetic, im planning to experiment with the addition of horney goat weed wich contains a PDE5 inhibitor wich should also show some synergism as increased nitric oxide potentiates LTP.

I dont notice any negatives with aniracetam tough.. again i didnt test this combo well with doing some studying but i still remain the clarity of mind and the openness feeling this combo provides (i beleive the other guy reported feeling sluggy and sleepy with ani added?)

Also got some mucuna lying around wich may be better then tyrosine, however both dont target ne wich has been overlooked here by those looking for a stim alternative, ne raises cAMP and increases LTP.
I beleive ginkgo was a nri but could be wrong.

I got my forskolii a few days ago, and I have been taking it along side my normal stack which includes tumoric, but I have not noticed any memory effects, only slightly better mood and confidence(they are so weak they may just be placebo). I imagine the actual dose of circumin is not high enough, though.

Guys, i was thinking of making several threads that pretty much discuss one particular goal (like in this one LTP) and in those threads discuss all compounds and synergy's that are relevant for this.

It would give us a good overview, and also that way we could try to see how the differened goals can be united by combining the info found in the differened threads.

As an example this combo may impair working memory, with a thread dedicated to that we would have enough info to try and combine it with stuff that works for a differened goal.

As an example this thread with a completely differened goal, regaring a mental issue.
http://www.longecity...made-about-bdb/

With this things wont be scattered in threads like (i want nootropics but also improve memory etc..) but promote more of a approuch to get ppl to work on their worst issue first, and then try to achieve a next goal.

YES! I like this idea. This thread is one of the best I have seen, and I would like to seem more like it, especially since LTP is probably my best natural function, so this is probably not the best thread for me or others like me. This thread has made immense progress, and it would be amazing if there were CILTEP equivalents for things like working memory, concentration, and reflexes.

[middpanther88]

That's what I'm looking for too!

[brainslugged]

Just as an idea about the working memory, and it is only a guess, not even a hypothesis.

Is is possible that higher CAMP requires more dopamine for the CAMP process, so more CAMP means more dopamine for the LTP, and thus less for the working memory. Then, by decreasing the CAMP, you are decreasing the amount of dopamine that needs to be spent on that, and thus the brain has extra dopamine for other processes (I don't really know if it works this way, or if dopamine production doesn't just drop, which actually seems likely) and the body still has the same amount of resources to make the dopamine and doesn't have a new limit, so more of it proportionally goes the working memory processes. That would explain why people in this thread aren't losing working memory, because they are supplementing with dopamine increasing substances to counterbalance the increased usage by the CAMP processes.

I don't have much of an idea if this is even possible. Also, I am assuming that the dopamine can go over its natural limit by increasing the CAMP process, but not under it by decreasing it(that the excess would just go to the working memory), which seems a bit shaky. I just thought I would throw it out there, though, in case no one else had thought of it.

[hephaestus]

Increased intracellular cAMP increases the rate of dopamine synthesis:

https://en.wikipedia...lase#Regulation

Long term regulation of tyrosine hydroxylase can also be mediated by phosphorylation mechanisms. Hormones (e.g. glucocorticoids), drugs (e.g. cocaine), or second messengers such as cAMP increase tyrosine hydroxylase transcription. Increase in tyrosine hydroxylase activity due to phosphorylation can be sustained by nicotine for up to 48 hours. Tyrosine hydroxylase activity is regulated chronically (days) by protein synthesis.

Since tyrosine hydroxylase catalyses the rate limiting step in the biosynthesis of catecholamines, alterations in the enzyme activity may be involved in disorders such as Segawa's dystonia, Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia.

[hephaestus]

I just noticed that imminst has a wiki, but it doesn't look like there's much content in the supplements section. We should try to organize the material from this thread and maybe link it in the first post. Personally, I kind of enjoy skimming pages and pages of forum posts looking for information, but there's no reason that everyone should have to do that. Forums are a good format for discussion, but not for organizing information.

http://www.imminst.o...php/Supplements

The r/nootropics faq on reddit has some good information organized in one place, but even that is pretty sparse.

http://www.reddit.co...faqs/nootropics

[health_nutty]

I'm not worried about forskolin 10%. In 12 week human study of 500mg a day "Liver and Kidney function test and haematological parameters did not show any changes in the group of volunteers which receive Forslean® and Placebo."

I'm taking only 100mg a day (10 mg of forskolin) which is much much less.

http://www.forslean....inicalindia.htm
-----------------------------------------


Study design and Methodology

• A 12 week double blind and randomized study, with 60 obese male and female volunteers, 25 – 45 years old with a Body Mass Index (BMI) between 28 – 40 and / or body fat concentration above 30% in males and 40% in females
• Subjects received either 25 mg of diterpene forskohlin twice daily in the form of ForsLean® or matching placebo.
• Body weight and total body fat measurements at 0 week, 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 9 weeks and 12 weeks.
• The thyroid function tests were performed, assessing levels of hormones T3 , T4 and TSH before and after the completion of the study.
• Blood lipid profiles were obtained initially and at the end of 12 weeks.
• Liver and Kidney function tests initially at the end of 12 weeks
• Blood glucose and insulin initially at the end of 12 weeks
• Haematological parameters initially at the end of 12 weeks

Study results

Efficacy:

• Forslean® treated volunteers shed on an average 1.73 kg from their body weight, in comparison placebo group gained 0.25 kg. These differences are statistically significant.
• During the 12 – week period of treatment volunteers treated with placebo gained 0.68% of body fat. On the other hand, the Forslean® treated group lost 0.46% of body fat. These differences are statistically significant.
• In the group of volunteers that received Forslean®, there was an increase in the LBM as compared to the placebo group where, there was a decrease in LBM. These differences are statistically significant.
• HDL cholesterol showed a statistically significant increase in volunteers treated with Forslean®. Other serum lipid profiles remained statistically unaltered in the Forslean® and Placebo treated groups.

Safety:

• It was observed that the levels of all three thyroid hormones remained within normal range in both active compound and placebo treated groups after 12 weeks of the regimen.
• Those volunteers receiving the active compound showed a significant rise in the serum concentrations of HDL at the end of the study, while triglyceride, total cholesterol, LDL and VLDL levels remained unchanged in this group, as compared to baseline and placebo group levels.
• There was no significant changes in the diastolic and systolic blood pressure of volunteers treated with Forslean® and placebo.
• The levels of blood glucose and insulin remains unchanged in the groups which received Forslean® and Placebo.
• Liver and Kidney function test and haematological parameters did not show any changes in the group of volunteers which receive Forslean® and Placebo.

Conclusion:

Results suggest that ForsLean® reduces body weight and body fat, and helps promote lean body mass. The 12 week treatment did not produce any subjective or objective side effects in either active compound or placebo receiving groups. The active group showed increase in serum levels of HDL and significant decrease of total cholesterol/HDL ratio as compared to the control group. No untoward effects on thyroid hormones and blood lipid profile and other parameters were observed.

Refference:

• Study conducted at C.B. Patel Research Centre for Chemistry and Biological Sciences, Mumbai.
  Data on file of Sami Labs Limited, Bangalore, India.

[unbeatableking]

Can anyone explain the rationale behind the dosages mentioned in this thread? I know some people have been reporting headaches at higher dosages, but from where were these dosage ranges taken from?

For example, the recommended forskolin dose is at 4 mg. Would the efficacy of forskolin at this dosage remain uncompromised?

[brainslugged]

WOW!

My results are extremely strange.

Here is what I have taken the past two days:
Activated Quercetin http://www.amazon.co...ils_o00_s00_i00
L-Phenylalanine http://www.amazon.co...ils_o03_s00_i00
Forskolii http://www.amazon.co...ils_o02_s00_i00

I tried each independently, and they each had mild effects.
Quercetin helped with sinus problems and ichy skin
Forskolii gave me a better than average mood
L-Phenylalanine did nothing that I could tell. Maybe made me a bit more alert, but I took the digit span test and got 6 as always.

When I have taken it, I have felt very strange and "off". The world feel a bit swimmy, not in the confused way, but in a really strange way that is difficult to describe. I also feel more easily irritated. Things seem to "cut" into me more than usual, a similar effect to piracetam.

I do not feel like my brain is functioning any better, and I do not FEEL like I can remember more all the time. However, recent events seem to indicate otherwise.

1. I have remembered where a lot of things are recently. I have not lost anything, and I have actually helped family members find things that they left around the house just because I happened to remember seeing it while I was walking somewhere.
2. In minecraft (yeah, it is significant, just hold on), I noticed increased problem solving and learning skills in a mod called Tekkit, which allows you to build complex machines. I know this seems silly, but it is a significant increase, and I feel like it is important enough.
3. The biggest of all is: On the Cambridge digit span test, my span increased from 6 to 8, which is significant, and extraordinary considering that I have done the test countless times and only gotten a 6. It wasn't even difficult, either. I even almost got 9, but it was starting to get difficult, and I accidentally skipped a number. I saw it in my mind, but forgot to type it(that happens to me sometimes, I lose my train of thought and skip over one of them, thinking I had just typed it)

[canz]

So I've read this thread from start to finish and have a few questions:
In regards to forskolin:

1) According to the rat study in regards to c. forksilli creating hepatoxicity in mice, the extract was 5%. Alebard lindsay has been taking the Solaray 1% extract, but have yet to see any concerns from him about hepatoxicity. Alebard if you could chime in on this: Have you had your liver values checked since dosing ~4-10mg of the forskolin at 1%?

2) Those of you taking 10-20mg of the forskolin, have you figured out what alleviates the tiredness that builds over time? Is it choline, is it glutamine, or just 1-2 days off every week or every other week?

3) Those of you taking 10-20mg of the forskolin, have you notice physical benefits (decreased body fat/increased muscle mass)? I read that zbarnes enjoyed the physical benefits at 20mg, was curious if anyone else (Health Nutty) has noticed this?

I have anxiety/depression/brain fog that comes and goes, and this stack sounds promising, but funds are tight so before I can commit to buying this stuff I just need to clarify some things. I also beleive in the minimum effective dose so I want to be able to take the lowest dose possible to reap the benefits without horrendous side effects (especially the anxiety and irritability...I have enough of that to begin with).

I'm also looking at this stack in way of physical benefit. I could use some assistance in decrease of bodyfat and increase of lean muscle so I'm willing to dose forskolin at 10-20mg in order to see the mental and physical benefits. I just need to figure out what you all have found that alleviates the burnout/tiredness that comes about from this high of a dose.

Edited by canz, 09 August 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[hephaestus]

What's the best source people have found for forskolin? I bought some 95% extract off of bodybuilding.com the other day:

http://www.bodybuild...rts/cbolic.html

Related to the previous post, the dosage on that 95% extract for fat burning/muscle building purposes is 25mg forskolin 2x daily, which is a lot more than most people in this thread are taking. We are potentiating the effect with pde inhibitors, but I am very interested in trying to figure out what causes the tiredness that some people have reported. Presumably it doesn't make most people tired when they take it as labeled without pde inhibition, or it wouldn't be a good bodybuilding supplement.