2626 replies to this topic

[bossmanglb]

The entire regimen mentioned in this topic messed with my working memory.

gotcha. BTW fwiw I stacked piracetam today and pramiracetam and severely underperformed on a lsat practice test. Normally I take just pramiracetam and score 10 points higher.

Wait a second. Let me get this straight.
You maintain that by supplementing with pramiracetam you're able to reliably improve your *baseline* LSAT score by 10 points?! And that conversely, when not taking pramiracetam your score will reliably decrease by ten points?!

This is no small claim. That's a HUGE effect.
Going from a 160 to a 170 is the difference between Seton Hall Law and Harvard Law.
On the MCAT, I guess it would be like going from 25 to 35.

Again, that's a huge, absolutely earth shattering effect... so please clarify.

Are you talking about raw score or scaled score?
Is the effect consistent across the subtests?
Etc.

[summertimex]

The entire regimen mentioned in this topic messed with my working memory.

gotcha. BTW fwiw I stacked piracetam today and pramiracetam and severely underperformed on a lsat practice test. Normally I take just pramiracetam and score 10 points higher.

Wait a second. Let me get this straight.
You maintain that by supplementing with pramiracetam you're able to reliably improve your *baseline* LSAT score by 10 points?! And that conversely, when not taking pramiracetam your score will reliably decrease by ten points?!

This is no small claim. That's a HUGE effect.
Going from a 160 to a 170 is the difference between Seton Hall Law and Harvard Law.
On the MCAT, I guess it would be like going from 25 to 35.

Again, that's a huge, absolutely earth shattering effect... so please clarify.

Are you talking about raw score or scaled score?
Is the effect consistent across the subtests?
Etc.

if there is a significant effect at that rate he probably has "nmda hypofunction". which i found out is not ADD, but can be diagnosed as inability to follow through and concentrate on matrial.

its basically those kids that daydream too much and are kinda oceanic, but they dont have add. as well as just generally cognitive deficient others.

[hephaestus]

That sounds almost exactly like one of the ADHD presentations to me, in what way is it not ADHD?

[summertimex]

well there might be some overlap, nmda hypofunction people can hang out with add people and understand them. nmda hypofuction doesnt include hyperactivity, its more like a non-linear, absent brain. its usually common in people that will later in life develop schizophrenia, its one of the ways that the precondition could be seen. it can also be included in any other mental disorder though. it could be more right-brained people trying to act like left-brain people.

the difference between nmda (glutamate) and dopamine is that dopamine is horizontal to nmda function. nmda is vertical to dopamine function. its like spike amplitudes.

Edited by gen6k, 27 September 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[middpanther88]

I've tried piracetam and pramiracetam for the LSAT as well, and noticed my results were much lower than if I had just taken pramiracetam.

[hephaestus]

It seems like NMDA hypofunction could be a potential cause of ADHD and they seem pretty closely related to me. There are different ADHD presentations and they don't have to include hyperactivity.

[X_Danny_X]

Querectin is out of the question then, so something like Luteolin or Artichoke is a better option? this is what i got from this thread though I have been taking Querectin and I have not been getting nothing of the negative effects that people so far have talked about in this thread.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 29 September 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[bossmanglb]

I've tried piracetam and pramiracetam for the LSAT as well, and noticed my results were much lower than if I had just taken pramiracetam.

I don't quite understand. Did piracetam or pramiracetam, singly or in conjunction, increase or decrease your scores? Consistently and uniformly across the various subtests?
By how much?

[Raza]

Querectin is out of the question then, so something like Luteolin or Artichoke is a better option? this is what i got from this thread though I have been taking Querectin and I have not been getting nothing of the negative effects that people so far have talked about in this thread.

It's not out of the question for achieving long term potentiation specifically, nor for a possible boost in dopamine metabolism and executive function. It does, however, look to be suboptimal for all-round cognitive enhancement.

I've tried piracetam and pramiracetam for the LSAT as well, and noticed my results were much lower than if I had just taken pramiracetam.

I don't quite understand. Did piracetam or pramiracetam, singly or in conjunction, increase or decrease your scores? Consistently and uniformly across the various subtests?
By how much?

He never said or implied that either piracetam or pramiracetam increased his scores, by ten points or otherwise. All he said is that adding piracetam reduced his score by ten, compared to a baseline established while using only pramiracetam.

[middpanther88]

^ correct

I just said that I noticed when I used both simultaneously, the results were worse than had I taken both separately (pram always yields better results for me than piracetam).

[Nootr]

What time should i take th stack: right before or after meal or 2 hours before or after meal?

[hephaestus]

The tyrosine or phenylalanine is absorbed fastest if you take it away from other proteins.

[Raza]

The tyrosine or phenylalanine is absorbed fastest if you take it away from other proteins.

This.

I take my tyrosine first thing in the morning before breakfast, and forskolin and quercetin/artichoke alongside breakfast... mostly because all three of those say to take with meals on the package.

[Nootr]

Is forskolin really so strong that 10 mg of it make you alert the whole day?

[panax]

I noticed that 750mg of Aniracetam alongside my 40mg Vyvanse script began to make the effects of the medication more "permanent." I found that I was able to focus and derive meaning out of things that would just go straight over my head before (many social cues, dynamic relationships, etc) even when I was not on my medication.

As someone who battles with ADHD and can attest that is more than just a "rich brat's" disorder, it is exciting for me to be making noticeable progress towards a normal life where I can actually function outside the static mindspace of my brain.

Edited by panax, 02 October 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[gizmobrain]

Is forskolin really so strong that 10 mg of it make you alert the whole day?

I wouldn't say forskolin on it's own will "make you alert the whole day". However, stacked with the other things in this thread, I have noticed a boost in energy for 8-12 hours.

For anyone who thinks 10mg of a substance can't possibly be effective, remember that there are substances that are active in the microgram range. Even Yohimbine HCL, which is an herbal extract just like Forskolin, is often sold in 2-3mg doses.

Edited by zrbarnes, 02 October 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[gizmobrain]

Haven't found much yet, but I thought I'd put the feelers out there.

Has anyone done any research on Carbolin-19 (colforsin 1,9-ethylcarbonate)? It's a derivative of Forskolin.

[Nootr]

I wouldn't say forskolin on it's own will "make you alert the whole day". However, stacked with the other things in this thread, I have noticed a boost in energy for 8-12 hours.

For anyone who thinks 10mg of a substance can't possibly be effective, remember that there are substances that are active in the microgram range. Even Yohimbine HCL, which is an herbal extract just like Forskolin, is often sold in 2-3mg doses.

I am asking this coz i want to buy forskolin and artichoke extract in bulk. I have purchased already in bulk L-theanine and bacopa and I did not like the effect they produce. They are sedating but I have that type of depression thay is accompanied with lack of energy and physical weakness. So i need a kind of boost to motive me. I found only that selegiline + coffee make me more alert but a bit schizophrenic. In order to feel smth i take 5x doses of bacopa. So i hope forskolin + artichoke is not like that.

[hephaestus]

Bacopa isn't really intended to help you focus, it is anxiolytic and sedating to some degree, and there are studies showing it improves memory when taken for a few months. Some other posters on this forum have tried it and found it too sedating, but I take it before bed and I feel fine in the morning. Theanine is also anxiolytic but it is usually taken with a stimulant like caffeine, in which case it can also potentiate the focusing effects of the stimulant.

[khemix]

Is forskolin really so strong that 10 mg of it make you alert the whole day?

Forskolin is very potent stuff, even at 10mg.

I would it equate it to norepinephrine without the jitters. I know what norepinephrine feels like having been on adderall, NRIs, and ephedrine. You get energy and almost slight mania with some anxiety. Unfortunately, I find it also increases impulsiveness and makes me very irritable. No doubt the cAMP buildup in the PFC.

[stablemind]

I see most reports refer to the improvement in focus, but has there been any notable benefits in long term memory?

[Nootr]

I would it equate it to norepinephrine without the jitters. I know what norepinephrine feels like having been on adderall, NRIs, and ephedrine. You get energy and almost slight mania with some anxiety. Unfortunately, I find it also increases impulsiveness and makes me very irritable. No doubt the cAMP buildup in the PFC.

I've never thought that amphetamins act like norepinephine coz I thought that this monoamine provides self-control and the opposite of agitation. Seems that i need ciltep stack because what i need is energy and to be more self-assured. It's good that it increases impulsiveness. After a long time on anti-anxiety stuff like phenibut, l-theanine, bacopa my life became void without any feelings and emotions. And imagine on saturday I had a major smoking session with electronic cigarette and got a decent dose of nicotine. After returning home I felt desire to smoke again but since i did not have a cigarette with me I took 1.25 mg of selegiline which I did not manage to sell (i have side-effects from it) and what a wonder - I felt energy and good mood. I drank cofffee and the efect became even stronger. Caffeine synergizes with selegiline. Caffeine promotes dopamine generation and selegiline inhibits its desintegration. So I have had the feeling of euphoria since that day. It is the fifth day today and I still have some energy. But selegiline effects my heart badly. I have tension in chest. But it is still better than feeling like dead without any joy and emotions.
It is a good thing to add turmeric to selegiline and coffee. It makes the energizing effect even stronger with some calming action. But because of heart problems caused by selegiline I have to switch to other energy source. And I am grateful for your post. It seems that ciltep stack is what I need. Due to selegiline I feel desire to work, to do something even in spite of increased irritation. I feel the taste of life. I hezitate about seratonin-increasing drugs' being capable to give energy. Are they as effective as dopamine-increasing drugs? What is the difference in feelings aroused by dopamine, seratonine and norepinephrine. Dopamine definitely causes the feeling of euphoria and generally makes a person more happy. Never had a chance to try seratonin and norepinephrine-increasing drugs. I take turmeric but i think it is not so potent to provide significant seratonin boost.

[Nootr]

I see most reports refer to the improvement in focus, but has there been any notable benefits in long term memory?

I think that you can check it like this. Remember a little poem by heart in the morning and try to recall it in the evening or the next day. Everything that remaines in memory in 30 minutes after memorizing refers to long-term memory. Everything which is within 30 minutes from the moment of memorizing referrs to short-term memory.
Instead of poem you may try to memorize for example 30 random words and recall in some hours. Do it one day while on stack and on the other without the stack. If you do several attempts and comparisons you can find out if the stack works.

[khemix]

I would it equate it to norepinephrine without the jitters. I know what norepinephrine feels like having been on adderall, NRIs, and ephedrine. You get energy and almost slight mania with some anxiety. Unfortunately, I find it also increases impulsiveness and makes me very irritable. No doubt the cAMP buildup in the PFC.

I've never thought that amphetamins act like norepinephine coz I thought that this monoamine provides self-control and the opposite of agitation. Seems that i need ciltep stack because what i need is energy and to be more self-assured. It's good that it increases impulsiveness. After a long time on anti-anxiety stuff like phenibut, l-theanine, bacopa my life became void without any feelings and emotions. And imagine on saturday I had a major smoking session with electronic cigarette and got a decent dose of nicotine. After returning home I felt desire to smoke again but since i did not have a cigarette with me I took 1.25 mg of selegiline which I did not manage to sell (i have side-effects from it) and what a wonder - I felt energy and good mood. I drank cofffee and the efect became even stronger. Caffeine synergizes with selegiline. Caffeine promotes dopamine generation and selegiline inhibits its desintegration. So I have had the feeling of euphoria since that day. It is the fifth day today and I still have some energy. But selegiline effects my heart badly. I have tension in chest. But it is still better than feeling like dead without any joy and emotions.
It is a good thing to add turmeric to selegiline and coffee. It makes the energizing effect even stronger with some calming action. But because of heart problems caused by selegiline I have to switch to other energy source. And I am grateful for your post. It seems that ciltep stack is what I need. Due to selegiline I feel desire to work, to do something even in spite of increased irritation. I feel the taste of life. I hezitate about seratonin-increasing drugs' being capable to give energy. Are they as effective as dopamine-increasing drugs? What is the difference in feelings aroused by dopamine, seratonine and norepinephrine. Dopamine definitely causes the feeling of euphoria and generally makes a person more happy. Never had a chance to try seratonin and norepinephrine-increasing drugs. I take turmeric but i think it is not so potent to provide significant seratonin boost.

Serotonin is generally inhibitory, it acts to decrease cAMP in most cases. So you would become even more dull on it.

Dopamine does increase happiness. This is done mainly by increasing cAMP as well and gives you the anxiety and zest.

Norepinephrine gives you alertness and focus but also raises blood pressure peripherally. Makes you a little quick and impulsive too.

I think if you are using something like selegine but do not appreciate the peripheral stimulation form the NE such as increased heart rate etc that you try a low dose of guanfacine. I found that removed all heart problems back when I took adderall.

[Nootr]

Serotonin is generally inhibitory, it acts to decrease cAMP in most cases. So you would become even more dull on it.

Then I wonder why people are taking all those SSRIs, and MAOIs to increase their serotonin levels. Isn't it strange to fight against depression by increasing the content of the substance which makes you even duller (more depressive)? I am quite puzzled.
I suppose the best way would be to use AD's increasing dopamine and norepinephrine according to your post, and some anxiolitics only in situations of utter stress where your energy has already failed to maintain your homeostasis or you know that it will definitely fail. But in most cases stimulants should be the better choice to improve taste for living.

I generally have low blood pressure like 90/60 or 100/60. I have never measured my blood pressure while on selegiline. Probably I should do that. Do you think that selegiline raises my blood pressure? I only feel like my pulse increases. I would not want to lower my blood pressure if selegiline does not influence it. So i don't know if I should take Guanfacine. I take magnesium acetate which is known to lower blood pressure but the heart pain from selegiline is not releaved by magnesium, so I don't think that blood pressure is the cause of pain. I had ishemia when a teenager and some kind of repolarization and probably still have it. And somehow selegiline makes the heart to do more work and maybe that is the cause of pain. I even don't have an idea what it can be.

Edited by Dan Brown, 04 October 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[khemix]

Serotonin is generally inhibitory, it acts to decrease cAMP in most cases. So you would become even more dull on it.

Then I wonder why people are taking all those SSRIs, and MAOIs to increase their serotonin levels. Isn't it strange to fight against depression by increasing the content of the substance which makes you even duller (more depressive)? I am quite puzzled.
I suppose the best way would be to use AD's increasing dopamine and norepinephrine according to your post, and some anxiolitics only in situations of utter stress where your energy has already failed to maintain your homeostasis or you know that it will definitely fail. But in most cases stimulants should be the better choice to improve taste for living.

I generally have low blood pressure like 90/60 or 100/60. I have never measured my blood pressure while on selegiline. Probably I should do that. Do you think that selegiline raises my blood pressure? I only feel like my pulse increases. I would not want to lower my blood pressure if selegiline does not influence it. So i don't know if I should take Guanfacine. I take magnesium acetate which is known to lower blood pressure but the heart pain from selegiline is not releaved by magnesium, so I don't think that blood pressure is the cause of pain. I had ishemia when a teenager and some kind of repolarization and probably still have it. And somehow selegiline makes the heart to do more work and maybe that is the cause of pain. I even don't have an idea what it can be.

SSRIs tend to slow your brain down so they can shut down those nagging depressive thoughts. It doesn't make you "more depressed" just makes you "more empty" and feeling less emotion, both good and bad.

Selegine would raise your blood pressure, given that it increases NE concentration. I don't know how significant. I know stimulants raise it quite noticably. Guanfacine would off set this raise in BP by lowering NE.

[Nootr]

What do you mean by the word NE: norepinephrine or negative effects?

[khemix]

Norepinephrine, NE. Causes increased blood pressure via agonism of the alpha-one receptors.

[Nootr]

I take only 1\4 of the tablet that is 1.25 mg. Is it enough to effect NE level? As far as i know selegiline effects only dopamine when taken in small quantities.

[Nootr]

Selegiline was discovered in Hungary in the 1960s. Joseph Knoll, a chair of pharmacology at the Semmelweis University in Budapest, was interested in the physiology of "drive" and the differences between high- and low-performing individuals. For his research, he required a molecule that combined amphetamine-like psychostimulant effect with a "psycho-energic" effect of monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI). To do that, he decided to combine in the same molecule the structural features of the MAOI pargyline and the psychostimulant amphetamine. Knoll was a close friend of Meszaros, the research director of Chinoin, a Hungarian pharmaceutical company (later sold off to Sanofi). For this project, Meszaros put Knoll in contact with a chemist called Ecsery who worked in Chinoin in the field of phenethylamines. Ecsery made about 30 compounds, and Knoll selected the molecule of E-250 (deprenyl) based on its surprising properties. "The great discovery" (in Knoll's words) was that the new molecule did not increase blood pressure, unlike amphetamine, and moreover, it inhibited the blood pressure raising effect of amphetamine. The first publication on deprenyl in Hungarian appeared in 1964, followed by a paper in English in 1965. Deprenyl is a racemic compound, a mixture of two isomers called enantiomers. For the further pharmaceutical development, Knoll chose the (−)-enantiomer of deprenyl, which caused less hypermotility than the opposite (+)-enantiomer. This (−)-enantiomer (l-deprenyl, R-deprenyl) later has come to be called selegiline.

Selegiline is partly metabolized to l-methamphetamine, one of the two enantiomers of methamphetamine in vivo. Now I know why selegiline gives energy and mood. This is partially a real amphetamine!

Edited by Dan Brown, 04 October 2012 - 05:07 PM.