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Chemically induced LTP?

ciltep pde4 forskolin ltp

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#901 alecnevsky

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:16 AM

I'm not saying that Ginkgo is a no-go with CILTEP, just that the result of adding it has a lot of variables.


Got ya--thanks. That's very informative. I added-on 1040mg of Ginseng (5% ginsenosides) today (this is 4-5 hrs after taking CILTEP+ ginkgo and caffeine. Still feeling general haziness etc. I am going to try to take CILTEP + l-tyrosine tomorrow after food and with my sups (just to be consistent throughout.) and then try it 30 min before food/supps as you suggested. I wonder why these herbs are not affecting me immediately.

Clenched jaw was not at all severe. But come to think of it my multi only has 25% magnesium per 3 pills (Optimum Nutrition.) My coffee response is similar to yours -- I can easily drink a cup before sleep and crash. My stimulant tolerance is pretty high I believe (60-80mg of Adderall/12 hrs.) Although I do adderall maybe once a week.

#902 gizmobrain

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 12:43 AM

Clenched jaw was not at all severe. But come to think of it my multi only has 25% magnesium per 3 pills (Optimum Nutrition.) My coffee response is similar to yours -- I can easily drink a cup before sleep and crash. My stimulant tolerance is pretty high I believe (60-80mg of Adderall/12 hrs.) Although I do adderall maybe once a week.


There's the biggest test of if it's going to work for you or not. Take Forksolin + Artichoke + a very small dose of Adderall. I suggest no more than 20mg over 12 hrs. Start with 5-10mg. I went from 40-60mg of Adderall a day down to 5mg, increasing the positives and nearly eliminating the negatives of Adderall.

Edited by zrbarnes, 20 October 2012 - 12:45 AM.


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#903 Spinlock

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 01:54 AM

The reviews for Forskolin on Amazon don't sound to good. http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1

Has anyone here experienced strong positive benefits with Forskolin? I am wondering if I should even bother trying it.
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#904 gizmobrain

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 02:12 AM

The reviews for Forskolin on Amazon don't sound to good. http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1

Has anyone here experienced strong positive benefits with Forskolin? I am wondering if I should even bother trying it.


Have you read through this thread? Forskolin is a staple of the CILTEP stack that several people have had good results with.

Most people buy Forskolin after watching an episode of Dr. Oz and expecting that they can keep double fisting Big Macs yet shed the extra 50lbs of fat off their ever-expanding mid section. Hence the bad reviews.

Edited by zrbarnes, 20 October 2012 - 02:12 AM.

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#905 dear mrclock

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

UPDATE: Little to no effects of CILTEP + ginkgo and caffeine on 2nd day of trials (still drowsiness and brain fog.) I think either my bar is set way too high via adderall or I am still completely beat after practice(2 days ago.) One thing I did experience is a clenched jaw which is not very useful for getting things done. Took this with my multi, D, omega 3s, 3gs of creatine, and some light, buttery food (the reason for that is essentially: if this doesn't work on top of my regular routine, it's useless.) Hoping to try this with tyrosine tomorrow. BTW, is LTP beneficial by itself in the long term? Suppose I do not feel any effects of the CILTEP stack at all, should still take it for dendrite growth/potentiation etc? Or, is it the case that because I am not feeling it, it is not affecting me or my brain in a favorable way? Thanks.



so eating artichokes is the idea or what ?

Yes, eat as many full artichokes as you can. Have you tried artichoke pizza?





im sorry for keep bugging about this but... how the fuck is artichoke is going to help with anything related to this thread ? i havent seen one study showing artichoke to do anything compared to the other substances posted here. eating plain artichokes ??? lol i saw few posts mentioning artichoke extracts in combos... others dont mention anything related to it being important and active... and some actually say it is helpful BUT no studies posted yet.
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#906 stablemind

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:29 AM

UPDATE: Little to no effects of CILTEP + ginkgo and caffeine on 2nd day of trials (still drowsiness and brain fog.) I think either my bar is set way too high via adderall or I am still completely beat after practice(2 days ago.) One thing I did experience is a clenched jaw which is not very useful for getting things done. Took this with my multi, D, omega 3s, 3gs of creatine, and some light, buttery food (the reason for that is essentially: if this doesn't work on top of my regular routine, it's useless.) Hoping to try this with tyrosine tomorrow. BTW, is LTP beneficial by itself in the long term? Suppose I do not feel any effects of the CILTEP stack at all, should still take it for dendrite growth/potentiation etc? Or, is it the case that because I am not feeling it, it is not affecting me or my brain in a favorable way? Thanks.



so eating artichokes is the idea or what ?

Yes, eat as many full artichokes as you can. Have you tried artichoke pizza?





im sorry for keep bugging about this but... how the fuck is artichoke is going to help with anything related to this thread ? i havent seen one study showing artichoke to do anything compared to the other substances posted here. eating plain artichokes ??? lol i saw few posts mentioning artichoke extracts in combos... others dont mention anything related to it being important and active... and some actually say it is helpful BUT no studies posted yet.




Artichoke extract contains Luteolin which is a PDE4 inhibitor.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19853596

Although luteolin non-selectively and competitively inhibited PDE1-5, only PDE4 inhibition contributed to a reversing effect.



#907 dear mrclock

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:38 AM

do you realize that a dozen of plants, fruits, vegetables contain it too ? i cannot see whats so special about artichoke sorry...

#908 mastercowboy

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

I read this thread for many hours now and i am a bit lost.I want to try the Artichoke and Forskohli combo but i am confused about the dosage.Can you suggest a starting dose for both?Also some brand recommendations would be better.

I also have some Source Naturals Activated Quercetin that would like to try with Forskohli later.What about the dose of this?

#909 jayfoxpox

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

do you realize that a dozen of plants, fruits, vegetables contain it too ? i cannot see whats so special about artichoke sorry...


no one said artichoke can only be used for the source.
But it's probably the more cheaper and available sources for luteolin as an extract.
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#910 Mr. Pink

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 11:48 PM

I read this thread for many hours now and i am a bit lost.I want to try the Artichoke and Forskohli combo but i am confused about the dosage.Can you suggest a starting dose for both?Also some brand recommendations would be better.

I also have some Source Naturals Activated Quercetin that would like to try with Forskohli later.What about the dose of this?


start with 500mg of artichoke and 4mg of forskolin (so 20mg of a 20% exctract), add 500mg of L-phenylalanine, and a stimulant.

not sure re quercetin, but people said it takes too long to wear off and interupts sleep.

i use jarrows artichoke and 20% forskolin powder from smart powders. OP used now brand artichoke and the 1% forskolin extract caps (i forget the brand right now)

#911 alecnevsky

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 12:52 AM

Thought I'd make one last update on the efficacy of the stack for me. It seems like it worked with L-tyrosine + strong tea much better than with coffee or gingko although effects were similar in nature. I took CILTEP + 500mg l-tyrosine around 1pm, then added another 500mg Tyrosine at 5pm -- similar, more pronounced effect around 5pm so it seems like Artichoke and Forskolin stay in your system for at least 4 hours. That is, you can "refuel" the potentiation via more stimulants.

Again, I cannot tell whether there is any stimulant potentiation actually going, rather than just stimulant effects per se, considering I've never tried Tyrosine alone. I have yet to try Tyrosine on its own or CILTEP with a bit of Adderall as suggested so I cannot gauge whether CILTEP is working for me 100 %. But, can anyone with some understanding of LTP answer this: is it worth taking CILTEP for LTP even if the effects are not immediately felt? I've read that LTP promotes dendrite growth etc. so I am not ready to discount this yet, just because I am not able gauge the stimulant potentiation effects on myself immediately. I'd like to make this a part of my morning routine.

Anyway, I moved on to testing my "afternoon" TAUGPCDHA stack, which seems to be pretty magical.

Many thanks to zrbarnes without whom this thread may have deteriorated into pages of consecutive questions about artichokes :-D

Edited by alecnevsky, 21 October 2012 - 12:55 AM.


#912 timtam777

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

Due to being a non-responder to racetams, I've just bought some artichoke extract, forskolin and l-phenylalanine from iherbs to try. I have a similar behavioural profile to zrbarnes, so if it's successful for him, I'm hoping it may work for me.

#913 Ames

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

UPDATE: Little to no effects of CILTEP + ginkgo and caffeine on 2nd day of trials (still drowsiness and brain fog.)


I would strongly advise against remixing any recommended stacks when you first start them, at least for the first couple of weeks - unless you feel the need to omit something that doesn't completely cut the legs out from under the stack (omit a stimulant but not forskolin, for instance). It's been before stated in this thread that CILTEP seems prone to deactivation from other supplements, and I have to concur that I get the physical feeling that it's a bit of a delicate balance that can easily be subverted by other substances that are outside the general categories of what is recommended (PDE4 inhibitor, forskolin, caffeine, and a catecholamine precursor/stimulant).

I would consider your trials with Ginko invalid: at least for everything except to gauge how it works with Gingko. Your personal experience seems to conclude that it doesn't. So, try it as recommended. Start again, without pursuing your impulse to spice it up, and proceed from there.

Got ya--thanks. That's very informative. I added-on 1040mg of Ginseng (5% ginsenosides) today (this is 4-5 hrs after taking CILTEP+ ginkgo and caffeine. Still feeling general haziness etc. I am going to try to take CILTEP + l-tyrosine tomorrow after food and with my sups (just to be consistent throughout.) and then try it 30 min before food/supps as you suggested. I wonder why these herbs are not affecting me immediately.


I reiterate my afoeremntioned suggestion: stop remixing the stack outside of the predefined parameters.

Don't take it after food - take it before food. When you wake up, if possible. It's not assured that this (before food) is necessary, but it may be to get an optimal effect. I take it this way, it works fine, and so this is how I will continue to take it. It may work the same the other way, and it may not. I personally recommend that you assume that the fasting state(upon awakening) is always the optimal time for taking anything, especially anything designed for nootropic enhancement, until proven or recommended otherwise for a specific stack or supplement. That tip is just from my personal experience, and it's okay for others to disagree.

Thought I'd make one last update on the efficacy of the stack for me. It seems like it worked with L-tyrosine + strong tea much better than with coffee or gingko although effects were similar in nature. I took CILTEP + 500mg l-tyrosine around 1pm, then added another 500mg Tyrosine at 5pm -- similar, more pronounced effect around 5pm so it seems like Artichoke and Forskolin stay in your system for at least 4 hours. That is, you can "refuel" the potentiation via more stimulants.


In my experience, CILTEP is active for a LOT longer than 4 hours. More like 24 hours. I actually feel the stack still developing 12-16 hours later, as my heart begins to pump with noticeably stronger contractions at this point, dependent on how much I took. I experience a strong circadian rhythm enhancement that demands that I go to sleep earlier (not from general fatigue, but rather its like a switch flips in my mind that all of a sudden sends it into sleep mode - at higher artichoke doses and with at least 10 mg of forskolin). My dreams sleep state are noticeably different (deep, with limited dream recall, but the dreams that I do remember I remember perfectly), and I have experienced lasting nootropic enhancement with this the next morning at the above mentioned dose (24 hours later), something that I have not experienced with anything that I've ever taken before, at least to this level, arguably except for the uridine that personally had diminishing returns for my specific issues. And it wasn't really an increase in nootropic quality with uridine, insomuch as it was just mental energy. With this, the enhancement has come in the form of increased quality of sensory experience. Specifically, music had a noticeably smoother quality and more impact, something that I attribute to a type of dopamine enhancement that I have not experienced outside of certain amphetamine and intermittent fasting experiences. The fact that this enhancement was specifically present only 24 hours after taking the stack, is an incredibly good and significant sign in my opinion. This delay may be a marker that informs us that this stack does have the potential to facilitate the positive permanent changes that we desire. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic.

What you have to get over is thinking of this stack as so one dimensional in its effect ie: an Adderall or stimulant substitute/reverse tolerance mechanism. It's potential is much more than that. Once you do, I think that you will better circumvent any quick impulse to jazz it up or otherwise be impatient for its results. It will lilkely work to cut down on your personal Adderall/stimulant requirment, as this has been noted, but try to think differently about it so that you can get the most out of it. In other words: think long term so that you can have the patience to take your time with the basic stack and get to know it intimately, including how it works just with its basic elements (a PDE4 inhibitor and Forskolin), and then with weak stimualnts( coffee) and then with basic precursors (Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, etc.) and then with other things and combinations if necessary.

You shouldn't be redosing anything (tyrosine, etc.), imo, in your first month. You should be experimenting as I recommended above, and upping the quantity of dose of your first dose if you feel that more will be necessary, way before you should be experimenting with multiple-time per day dosing. This is also a personal opinion. Take it as you will, but I feel that multiple doses per day, of anything, but especially stimulating substances, tends to cause more problems than it generally solves, even if that problem is only a potential acceleration of tolerance to that substance. An even worse result would be circadian rhythm dysregulation.

Personally, I have found that my body has needed time to adapt to this stack, and I have found that the results both change and are cumulative as one continues with it. The first time that I took Forskolin on its own, nothing happened and so it was put on the shelf for six months. The first time that I tried CILTEP, it made me so sleepy that it ruined the rest of my day. Again, it went on the shelf for three months. I tried CILTEP again, and it had a very good effect for me, although perhaps not the effect that others here are after. It lowered my introcular eye pressure and has continued to give me the feeling of normalcy as I proceed through my day without this pressure or any noticeable inflammation. The second and third days, I began to notice nootropic effects(general enhanecement of experience). Its effect on memory and motivation are still yet to be assessed, but in my case the effects in these areas seem to be slowly accumulating. I have been taking it with alternations of a pinch of tyrosine, and nothing but caffeine while adjusting Forskolin and Artichoke quantities (Forskolin is strong stuff, btw, pay attention to your body/mind over a 24 hr period as your start with a simple stack). I am getting to know it. I actually like it better, currently, on its own (minus tyrosine), although I have noticed an increased appetite for sugar, but more experimentation is needed to truly assess this. I may very well change my mind, but it's important to get to know that character of this stack, so that you can best adjust and taylor it for your best results, even if the stack does include, for example, 250 mg of tyrosine and 5 mg of Adderall when all is said and done. You have to be ready to wait for gradual results, in my opinion, and to do what is necessary to see those results (stick to best practices) when one is expecting semi-permanent to permanenet changes in how your mind functions. Expect the results of any variation of the CILTEP stack to take at least 2 days to accurately assess, if not a little longer.

Edited by golgi1, 22 October 2012 - 04:49 PM.


#914 Ames

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:40 PM

I thought that this study was both interesting and germane:


Functional activation of monoamine transporters by luteolin and apigenin
isolated from the fruit of Perilla frutescens (L.) Britt.
Zhao G, Qin GW,
Wang J, Chu WJ, Guo LH.
Source

Cell Star Bio-Technologies Co., Limited, Shanghai, PR China.
Abstract

Monoamine transporters playing major roles in regulating normal and abnormal
synaptic activity are associated with various neuropsychological disorders. In
spite of the discovery of a series of structurally different monoamine
transporter antagonists for the therapy approach, no practical pharmaceutical
can act as a transporter activator. Here, we isolated luteolin and apigenin from
the fruit of Perilla frutescens (L.) Britt by using an activity-guided
extraction technique, and proved that the two compounds possess actions of
enhancing monoamine uptake either upon monoamine-transporter transgenic Chinese
hamster ovary (CHO) cells or upon wild dopaminergic cell lines, with higher
specificity for dopamine (DA) uptake than for norepinephrine (NE)- and serotonin
(5HT)-uptake, as well as with more potency and greater efficacy for luteolin
than for apigenin. Further, in the transgenic cells, the principal NE/DA uptake
activation by luteolin was significantly prevented by respective transporter
inhibitor, and the transmitter-uptake-enhancing action was independent of its
ligands, which is in support of the compounds as monoamine transporter
activators. Furthermore, luteolin evoked a marked disinhibition of
cocaine-targeted effect in CHO cells overexpressing dopamine transporter. Thus,
luteolin and apigenin function as monoamine transporter activators, which would
improve several hypermonoaminergic neuropsychological disorders, especially
cocaine dependence, through up-regulating monoamine transporter activity.

2009 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.


→ source (external link)


This study hints at how CILTEP is helping me, personally:


Oral administration of an association of forskolin, rutin and vitamins B1 and B2 potentiates the hypotonising effects of pharmacological treatments in POAG patients.
Pescosolido N, Librando A.
Source
Ophthalmology Department of the University Clinic Umberto I, Sapienza University, Rome, Italy. pescosol@tiscali.it

Abstract

BACKGROUND/AIMS:
Control of intraocular pressure is still the main strategy to treat glaucoma patients. Forskolin has already shown an ability to control intraocular pressure after topic administration, whereas rutin is known to improve ocular blood fl ow. Therefore, aim of this pilot study has been to observe whether administration of an association of oral forskolin and rutin to POAG patients under different regimens of medical therapy may contribute to their effects, further decreasing IOP values.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:
Forskolin (a natural compound present in the crude extract of the plant Coleus Forskohlii) and rutin are the main ingredients of a food supplement commercially available in Italy. In an open label pilot study, 16 patients with POAG under treatment with different topical drugs and with stable IOP were given additional treatment with the food supplement for 40 days, and their IOP values measured at enrolment, at the end of treatment and 40 days after treatment interruption.

RESULTS:
Further addition of forskolin and rutin to topical association treatments resulted in a further decrease of IOP by roughly 20% of the initial value. The effect was reversible upon suspension of the treatment.

CONCLUSIONS:
These data show for the fi rst time that forskolin and rutin given through the oral route appear to reach the ocular district, where they can act in synergy with topical pharmacological treatments, and contribute to the control of intraocular pressure.


→ source (external link)

Edited by golgi1, 22 October 2012 - 04:51 PM.


#915 alecnevsky

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

I experience a strong circadian rhythm enhancement that demands that I go to sleep earlier (not from general fatigue, but rather its like a switch flips in my mind that all of a sudden sends it into sleep mode - at higher artichoke doses and with at least 10 mg of forskolin)


Me too. It's interesting -- not sure whether that's the effect I need exactly as I can barely stay up past 12am and I need to be functional at least 4 hrs past that.

I really appreciate your advice and will note your recommendations as much as it is possible (no redosing, LTP take takes time to manifest, no remixing for the first month.) I do however have deadlines and these "stacks" are means to one end -- graduation or, put it another way, a healthy adderall substitute. Though that does not mean they are not also to my desired favorable long-term health ends---a prototype to something I'll be taking during work as well. This is why, in my posts, you can see that I am not discounting CILTEP just due to lack of immediate response.

But, generally, after taking adderall (I am not ADHD) and doing these somewhat clumsy,"invalid" trials (I am not a science guy) with CILTEP, I've found little to no effects that could be comparable to Adderall yet. And, rightly so, because none of these are actual stimulants. I tried to identify supplements that would make me able to work past 16 hrs/day, which I gather not everyone here desires. So considering your ends (for instance, increased form of sensory experience) may be different than mine (cognitively rewarding 18 hr study session-- 3 times a week,) it's only marginally useful to talk about efficacy.

Unfortunately, I have already mixed everything and anything I had within reason and came to the conclusion that, so far, this cannot in fact substitute adderall for me and I cannot wait 3-6 months to figure out whether it may. If the effects of CILTEP TauGPC PramSulb etc. start manifesting abruptly -- i'll just decrease the dose. What I need right now is to piece together a comprehensive stack that will ensure my long term development and have an immediate thrust comparable to adderall, which is why I am about to make a separate thread on it.

#916 johnreedman90

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

Has anyone had any success with a stimulate that’s not caffeine or Adderall? I had read earlier that someone was going to try yohimbine hcl but I haven’t seen any feedback.

#917 Mr. Pink

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:13 AM

am i correct in understanding that LTP means long term memory? I'm hearing a lot of talk in here about ADD, improving senses, interocular pressure. I'm just curious if this will have an improvement on memory in a healthy person, not someone that is sick with ADD or glucoma or just wants music to sound better. I could just be misunderstanding what LTP means.

#918 gizmobrain

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:26 AM

am i correct in understanding that LTP means long term memory? I'm hearing a lot of talk in here about ADD, improving senses, interocular pressure. I'm just curious if this will have an improvement on memory in a healthy person, not someone that is sick with ADD or glucoma or just wants music to sound better. I could just be misunderstanding what LTP means.


So far these supplements is only for memory enhancement and to able to absorb more information. There is nothing here to increase cognitive enhancement/fluid intelligence? Galantamine is ofcourse to help increase memory.


LTP isn't just long term memory encoding. It's related to synaptic plasticity, which has large implications in cognitive enhancement.

I won't try to recreate the wheel here on research, I'll just link you to the wikipedia entry:

In' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_potentiation']In neuroscience, long-term potentiation (LTP) is a long-lasting enhancement in signal transmission between two neurons that results from stimulating them synchronously.[2] It is one of several phenomena underlying synaptic plasticity, the ability of chemical synapses to change their strength. As memories are thought to be encoded by modification of synaptic strength,[3] LTP is widely considered one of the major cellular mechanisms that underlies learning and memory.

→ source (external link)


Check out the whole article (and sources) for all the info you'll ever need.

when i add a new substance, i can tell how it is effecting me in terms of short term effects. i wish there was a way to measure long term memory though.


Like I just told Danny, even though LTP is thought to be part of the process of forming long term memories, that is not the only thing that LTP is responsible for. That's only an aspect of it. Not to mention that Forskolin + Artichoke have immediate effects on neurotransmitters that should be detectable in the short term.



#919 X_Danny_X

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:47 AM

am i correct in understanding that LTP means long term memory? I'm hearing a lot of talk in here about ADD, improving senses, interocular pressure. I'm just curious if this will have an improvement on memory in a healthy person, not someone that is sick with ADD or glucoma or just wants music to sound better. I could just be misunderstanding what LTP means.


So far these supplements is only for memory enhancement and to able to absorb more information. There is nothing here to increase cognitive enhancement/fluid intelligence? Galantamine is ofcourse to help increase memory.


LTP isn't just long term memory encoding. It's related to synaptic plasticity, which has large implications in cognitive enhancement.

I won't try to recreate the wheel here on research, I'll just link you to the wikipedia entry:

In neuroscience, long-term potentiation (LTP) is a long-lasting enhancement in signal transmission between two neurons that results from stimulating them synchronously.[2] It is one of several phenomena underlying synaptic plasticity, the ability of chemical synapses to change their strength. As memories are thought to be encoded by modification of synaptic strength,[3] LTP is widely considered one of the major cellular mechanisms that underlies learning and memory.

→ source (external link)


Check out the whole article (and sources) for all the info you'll ever need.

when i add a new substance, i can tell how it is effecting me in terms of short term effects. i wish there was a way to measure long term memory though.


Like I just told Danny, even though LTP is thought to be part of the process of forming long term memories, that is not the only thing that LTP is responsible for. That's only an aspect of it. Not to mention that Forskolin + Artichoke have immediate effects on neurotransmitters that should be detectable in the short term.


so it is basically permanent increase of long term memory and also has a bunch cognitive enhancement that is also permanent in the long run?

#920 Mr. Pink

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:10 AM

i think that i've finally developed enough tolerance to the artichoke that it's not making my head feel swimmy/impairs concentration. I felt very sharp today on 4mg forskolin, 1g artichoke, 700mg l-phenylalanine, 200mg caffeine.

however, i can't say that I felt sharper than before i started taking CILTEP. Sharpness was never my problem. long term memory is, which is difficult to measure. the best nootropic for me would not interfere with the normal mental clarity and sharpness I enjoy and just make things stick in my brain a little longer, or with a little less effort. I do not want to "feel" it.

oh and I actually like that i get tired earlier on this stack. i've read that forskolin is used as a traditional remedy for insomnia. i am generally very alert come nightime and i think this stack is helping with reducing that.

#921 Mr. Pink

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:01 PM

last few days have been really good for motivation and learning. but today i have a horrible headache that I believe is from pde inhibition (artichoke), as it is one of the possible sidefects and there's some discussion of it in this thread. also i took the stack on an empty stomach in the morning without any other supps.

anyone know a cure for this type of headache?

#922 hephaestus

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:49 PM

I've never gotten a headache from it myself, but drinking lots of water and a bit of caffeine usually sorts out headaches for me.

#923 alecnevsky

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:20 PM

Has anyone gotten the "enhancement" of circadian rhythm whereby you start crashing earlier than you normally would? I can't tell whether this is interfering with the rest of my "up" stack.

#924 Mr. Pink

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

I've never gotten a headache from it myself, but drinking lots of water and a bit of caffeine usually sorts out headaches for me.


had 200mg caffeine as part of CILTEP and drinking water all morning :(

Has anyone gotten the "enhancement" of circadian rhythm whereby you start crashing earlier than you normally would? I can't tell whether this is interfering with the rest of my "up" stack.


yep i get tired earlier, but it's a good thing for me, since i have no problems being "up" at night naturally

#925 abelard lindsay

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:12 AM

I moved back from the c-bolic forskolin (20mg) to some 10% extract forskolin (10mg) and I think the effect was better. I think there's probably some sort of U curve going on here. Perhaps too much forskolin causes pde upregulation, as there were some negative effects I got going off the stack for a few days last week that I didn't get when I was taking smaller amounts of forskolin earlier in the year.

#926 SuperjackDid_

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:55 AM

Piracetam give super human feeling on many of us here by look from many report ,why bother with others substance ?
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#927 stablemind

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

Piracetam give super human feeling on many of us here by look from many report ,why bother with others substance ?


What are you talking about?

#928 Nootr

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

Took the first dose of ciltep stack today. 10 mg forskolin + 500 mg artichoke extract. Tea had been drunk 40 mins before. I took a little powder of coffee to add stimulating component. At first I did not feel anything but some irritation because it seemed to me the stack did not work. I went to the food store to buy products for the week. My relative gives me the list usually including 20 products with some variations every week. Today there were 4 variations. When I came to the store I suddenly decided to keep the list in the pocket and just to buy the products from the memory and what a suprise it was when I found out that i bought all the products correctly and within half the time that I usually spend in the store. When I was paying for the goods the amount of money pronounced by the saleswoman was kept strongly in my head. All this has made me think that CILTEP stack works mildly but it is not a placebo. It does not increase euphoria but it increases concentration, self-control and visual ability to notice details.
Is it good if I take the stack with selegiline? I don't want to give up selegiline due to fear that depression can emerge again.
Also can the stack help against Alzheimer's disease? My relative has this disease.
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#929 abelard lindsay

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

Also can the stack help against Alzheimer's disease? My relative has this disease.

I'd speculate that it could help the symptoms somewhat but wouldn't slow the underlying progression of the disease which is caused by accumulation of amyloid plaque in the brain.

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#930 hephaestus

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

Also can the stack help against Alzheimer's disease? My relative has this disease.

I'd speculate that it could help the symptoms somewhat but wouldn't slow the underlying progression of the disease which is caused by accumulation of amyloid plaque in the brain.


Don't want to go too off topic but there is a study showing that ashwagandha helps with beta amyloid plaques in a mouse model. Bacopa has shown some neuroprotective effects in at least one study as well.

http://examine.com/s...ts/Ashwagandha/
http://examine.com/s...acopa Monnieri/

There are also a few anecdotal reports on amazon for MCT oil helping:

http://www.amazon.co...eywords=mct oil

Some recent research has shown that alzheimer's could be related to insulin resistance, so I assume the ketone bodies from the MCT oil help fuel the brain where glucose is failing.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ciltep, pde4, forskolin, ltp

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