2626 replies to this topic

[Nootr]

I have such effect from CILTEP now that i cannot concentrate on philosophical texts. Strange... Looks like a difficulty to take the point of view of another person.

[Mr. Pink]

I wonder if someone could help me debug here...I posted a bit upthread that it took me a while to find the right combo that wouldn't make me feel swimmy, or perhaps just a certain amount of tolerance had to build up...but i was doing pretty good on CILTEP taking 2 artichoke, 20mg forskolii (4mg forskolin), 1 gm of L-phenylalanine, and a caffeine pill. my only problem was that after about 4 or 5 days of this i'd get a headache, which i fixed by taking a couple days off.

then i got the flu. spent 3 or 4 days taking lots of pseudo and guanfecein (sp?) and not taking any noots.

the first day i took the above dosages, the effects were good nootropically, but after a couple hours, I got nausea and a jittery feeling. tried again the next day and same result. the day after this i decided to cut down the dosages. I took 1 artichoke, 20mg forskolii, .5gm l-phenylalanine and a caffeine pill. I got a horrible swimmy effect. Just like the first days of being on CILTEP. I did not get nausea however. but did not get the nootropic effect that i am after either.

can anyone look at this data critically and tell me what to try? Basically, it's either the higher artichoke or the higher phenylalanine or both that cause the nausea and that prevent swimmy feeling (i.e., provide the right balance for me to get the good nootropic effect) but i'm not sure which is causing which.

[norepinephrine]

I've also found the desired results to be a bit fleeting, and plan on taking a break from the stack.

[Raza]

I think Artichoke's the likelier candidate for the swimminess, and phenylalanine for the jittters and nausea. Maybe try 2 artichoke and 750mg of phenylalanine, or the full (2 artichoke, 20mg forskolii (4mg forskolin), 1 gm of L-phenylalanine, and a caffeine pill) but with the artichoke split up across the day, with the second dose around the time your nausea starts?

Edited by Raza, 16 November 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[stablemind]

I tried 8mg forskolin, 2 artichoke pills, and a shot of expresso first thing in the morning. I noticed a mild mood stabilizing effect, but nothing dramatic. Everyone is different so I urge others give it a try.

[Dissolvedissolve]

I would love to hear some reports on people using only forskolin with stimulants versus forskolin + artichoke and stimulants. It seems to me that the forskolin is the most likely candidate for the stimulant potentiation effect that most are enjoying - either through its own stimulatory effect "stacking" with that of the other stimulant or by actually making the other stimulant more potent through some pathway (cAMP?). If the primary effects - stimulant potentiation - are coming from forskolin rather than forskolin + PDE inhibitition, then some might prefer forskolin + stimulant, presumably with less side effects compared to forskolin + artichoke + stimulant.

In any case, I will try forskolin on its own for stimulant potentiation, but I can't promise any great accuracy in my assessment since my stimulant tolerance is very low - I use caffeine around once a week on average.

[gizmobrain]

I would love to hear some reports on people using only forskolin with stimulants versus forskolin + artichoke and stimulants. It seems to me that the forskolin is the most likely candidate for the stimulant potentiation effect that most are enjoying - either through its own stimulatory effect "stacking" with that of the other stimulant or by actually making the other stimulant more potent through some pathway (cAMP?). If the primary effects - stimulant potentiation - are coming from forskolin rather than forskolin + PDE inhibitition, then some might prefer forskolin + stimulant, presumably with less side effects compared to forskolin + artichoke + stimulant.

In any case, I will try forskolin on its own for stimulant potentiation, but I can't promise any great accuracy in my assessment since my stimulant tolerance is very low - I use caffeine around once a week on average.

I found Forskolin + Adderall to be a bit rough, suffering from tunnel-vision, slightly increased anxiety, a less positive mood, and a shorter duration of working effects. So you could say I saw potentiation of the stimulant, but also the bad effects. The artichoke is what seems to balance out the stack for me, enhancing the good effects of the stimulant so far that they outweigh all the bad ones.

If I take too much artichoke, I can relate to those who report the "swimmies" (I'm the genius who started calling them "swimmies" to begin with, lol). I feel this much stronger when I only take forskolin+artichoke with no stimulant.

In summary, my findings are:

Forskolin + Adderall: tunnel vision, negative mood
Forskolin + Artichoke: spacey, swimmy
Forskolin + Artichoke + Adderall: Balanced, increased mood, increased focus

Edited by zrbarnes, 16 November 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[medievil]

Suprised no-one here tried the stack with nefiracetam yet, i will if anyone pays my nefiracetam, great investment that.

[SuperjackDid_]

Can Huperzine or Nicotine use for sensitive down AChR receptor ,alternative to Galantamine?

[SuperjackDid_]

I have notice 30% increased in tinnitus ringing .and so much annoying at morning have to get up early and noticed i have more working memory today ,um.

Edited by Nootropix, 24 November 2012 - 03:29 AM.

[timtam777]

After abstaining from CILTEP for the weekdays, I can only get mild results on the Saturday, and I feel utterly crap on the Sunday on CILTEP. Damn. Oh well, it was brief but extremely nice.
I got my Galantamine caps today. How should I take them?

Edited by timtam777, 26 November 2012 - 05:18 AM.

[gizmobrain]

I take 8mg Galantamineon on an empty stomach in the morning of a non-CILTEP day. Do not mix with anything else the messes with nAChR's on the day you take it, just in case (ALCAR, uridine, choline, citicholine, alpha gpc, DMAE, Nicotine, Nefiracetam, Huperzine A, etc.). You also may want to avoid anything else that is vasoconstrictive if you want to avoid a day-long headache, including caffeine.

If it works, you should feel it within an hour. If your nAChR's are desensitized, you will definitely see positive results. If they are very desensitized, you may get a headache. I recommend picking a day that you don't have a lot of important things to do, just in case it doesn't agree well with you. You may consider breaking a capsule in half for a trial run. It may or may not be enough to get the job done, but at least you'll know if you have a bad reaction.

Good luck. Don't double up on the Galantamine if you don't feel anything. It will probably make you feel terrible for the rest of the day, and you may have trouble sleeping at night.

Edited by zrbarnes, 26 November 2012 - 05:55 AM.

[timtam777]

Thank you sir.
What is the purpose of taking Galantamine? Does it reset your brain so CILTEP works again? Please say yes ;-)

[fenra]

Whenever I take ciltep I get a tight, buzzy feeling in my scalp like when lsd starts to kick in. It lasts as long as the other effects but gradually fades away towards the end. What the hell?

Edited by fenra, 27 November 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[synaptiq]

Whenever I take ciltep I get a tight, buzzy feeling in my scalp like when lsd starts to kick in. It lasts as long as the other effects but gradually fades away towards the end. What the hell?

I think that's dopaminergic in origin. My personal "alert" for psychedelics kicking in would always be a weird sensation in my teeth, and the stacks that give me the same sensation have generally been playing with dopamine. (Most often when I've had too much caffeine while on uridine/DHA)

[Cparso]

Hey guys,

I heard Tim mention this stack on the Joe Rogan podcast, and stumbled across this thread after googling the combo. I'm new to the boards but have been reading this thread for weeks now... For the past few days I have been taking 500mg Artichoke Extract with 1 Forskolin 250mg (20%) first thing in the morning with bulletproof coffee (coffee+butter+MCT oil).

I feel a definite difference, but it's not quite as "clear" as I'd hoped (too subtle IMO). The effects are more noticable when I skip breakfast. I'm also having trouble sleeping because my mind is racing.

My question is: what can I do to make the effects a bit more obvious?

What about stacking with Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg and/or L-Phenylalanine 500mg? I know L-Phenylalanine has been recommended, but I'm curious what kind of difference it makes? I haven't seen anyone mention Acetyl L-Carnitine - thoughts on how this would stack???

[nupi]

First time I heard about bullet proof coffee - but I hate the taste of butter, can I use ECOO instead (that should also replace the MCT I guess)?

[gizmobrain]

Hey guys,

I heard Tim mention this stack on the Joe Rogan podcast, and stumbled across this thread after googling the combo. I'm new to the boards but have been reading this thread for weeks now... For the past few days I have been taking 500mg Artichoke Extract with 1 Forskolin 250mg (20%) first thing in the morning with bulletproof coffee (coffee+butter+MCT oil).

I feel a definite difference, but it's not quite as "clear" as I'd hoped (too subtle IMO). The effects are more noticable when I skip breakfast. I'm also having trouble sleeping because my mind is racing.

My question is: what can I do to make the effects a bit more obvious?

What about stacking with Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg and/or L-Phenylalanine 500mg? I know L-Phenylalanine has been recommended, but I'm curious what kind of difference it makes? I haven't seen anyone mention Acetyl L-Carnitine - thoughts on how this would stack???

Uridine 5-monophosphate taken sublingually in the morning seems to pack more of a punch for me then ALCAR, and seems to stack pretty well for me. Some folks report decent results with L-Phenylalanine, but I don't notice much. It doesn't really hurt to take it though.

Also, if you plan on taking this stack for more than a couple weeks, that high of a dose of Forskolin might end up making you feel pretty sleepy during the day. You actually want to take somewhere between 25-50 mg of 20% extract. This might fix your sleep problem too.

If not, why not try some melatonin? It has plenty of health benefits, and doesn't cause sleepiness into the next day if you find your correct dosage and take it a couple hours before bed.

Also, try taking up to 1.5 grams of artichoke extract to see if the effects get better or worse. I respond better to 1.5 grams, but I also take 5mg adderall with this stack.

Edited by zrbarnes, 07 December 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Cparso]

First time I heard about bullet proof coffee - but I hate the taste of butter, can I use ECOO instead (that should also replace the MCT I guess)?

Nupi,

Bulletproof coffee is awesome (from www.bulletproofexec.com) - gives you a great feeling throughout the day & tons of energy. The butter is grass-fed & thus a really good source of health fats/Omega 3's. Once blended into the coffee the flavor is not noticable as long as it's salt-free. You can also use Ghee.

MCT = Medium Chain Triglyceride, which you won't get in substantial quantities anywhere else.

[nupi]

Coconut oil is composed of approximately 66% medium-chain triglycerides. Other rich sources of MCTs include palm kernel oil and camphor tree drupes.

In fact, MCT Oil general is made from either coconut or palm oil.

I get plenty of Omega 3 from fish oil (and K2 from supplements) so ultimately the grass-fed butter is not that critical to me.

Edited by nupi, 07 December 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[Cparso]

Hey guys,

I heard Tim mention this stack on the Joe Rogan podcast, and stumbled across this thread after googling the combo. I'm new to the boards but have been reading this thread for weeks now... For the past few days I have been taking 500mg Artichoke Extract with 1 Forskolin 250mg (20%) first thing in the morning with bulletproof coffee (coffee+butter+MCT oil).

I feel a definite difference, but it's not quite as "clear" as I'd hoped (too subtle IMO). The effects are more noticable when I skip breakfast. I'm also having trouble sleeping because my mind is racing.

My question is: what can I do to make the effects a bit more obvious?

What about stacking with Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg and/or L-Phenylalanine 500mg? I know L-Phenylalanine has been recommended, but I'm curious what kind of difference it makes? I haven't seen anyone mention Acetyl L-Carnitine - thoughts on how this would stack???

Uridine 5-monophosphate taken sublingually in the morning seems to pack more of a punch for me then ALCAR, and seems to stack pretty well for me. Some folks report decent results with L-Phenylalanine, but I don't notice much. It doesn't really hurt to take it though.

Also, if you plan on taking this stack for more than a couple weeks, that high of a dose of Forskolin might end up making you feel pretty sleepy during the day. You actually want to take somewhere between 25-50 mg of 20% extract. This might fix your sleep problem too.

If not, why not try some melatonin? It has plenty of health benefits, and doesn't cause sleepiness into the next day if you find your correct dosage and take it a couple hours before bed.

Also, try taking up to 1.5 grams of artichoke extract to see if the effects get better or worse. I respond better to 1.5 grams, but I also take 5mg adderall with this stack.

Thanks zrbarnes. I had assumed the sleepiness was due to poor sleep at night, but it may be caused by the high dose of Forskolin. I will try taking a half-dosage next time.

ALCAR interests me because it's supposed to stack well with Forskolin for fat-burning, which is why I thought it could have an interesting effect here with CILTEP.

I will check out Uridine!

[Cparso]

Coconut oil is composed of approximately 66% medium-chain triglycerides. Other rich sources of MCTs include palm kernel oil and camphor tree drupes.

In fact, MCT Oil general is made from either coconut or palm oil.

I get plenty of Omega 3 from fish oil (and K2 from supplements) so ultimately the grass-fed butter is not that critical to me.

Yea, MCT is basically a purified form of coconut oil. You can use conconut/palm oil, but it won't be as concentrated.

I have tried super-dosing Omega 3 with fish/krill oil, but Kerrygold grass-fed butter wins in a landslide for effects on me. I still take a few fish oil pills, but butter gives you a really nice energy that I haven't been able to find with anything else.

It's like $4 for a pack of Kerrygold unsalted butter, just try it out!

[nupi]

I am not sure Kerrygold is even available in Switzerland and despite this being one of the prototypical dairy countries, retailers are not very helpful with labeling grassfed products...

[abelard lindsay]

I looked up the Joe Rogan podcast where Tim Ferris talks about CILTEP (minus L-Phenylalanine). It's at about 2 hours 45 minutes in :
http://blog.joerogan...hives/5605. He gave it a great review, but he did feel tired the next day. He didn't take L-Phenylalanine with it so he probably metabolized all his DA precursors and thus the sleepiness the next day.

He said he was taking phenylpiracetam. Maybe that's why he had such a phenomenal experience on the day he took it. I think the Phenylpiracetam + CILTEP combo is probably one of the best nootropic stacks there is.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 December 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[gizmobrain]

Here's some science to maybe pull you back in:
Forskolin enhancement of opioid currents in rat locus coeruleus neurons.

1.' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8890275']1. Opioids are known to hyperpolarize all neurons in the nucleus locus coeruleus (LC) and to inhibit adenylyl cyclase. Recent work has shown that activation of adenylyl cyclase with forskolin increased the amplitude of the opioid hyperpolarization in LC cells. The aim of the present study was to determine the mechanism of this augmented hyperpolarization. 2. Agonist-induced currents were studied in LC cells in brain slices using both intracellular and whole cell recordings. Forskolin increased the amplitude of mu-opioid- and alpha 2-adrenoceptor-mediated currents by approximately 30% of control measured at -60 mV. This effect of forskolin was dependent on the concentration having a threshold of approximately 1 microM and a peak effect at approximately 30 microM. Dideoxyforskolin (30 microM) caused a small reduction (-52 +/- 28 pA, mean +/- SE) in the amplitude of the opioid current. 3. Forskolin increased the agonist current in the outward direction over the entire potential range between -140 and -50 mV when recordings were made from neurons in cells recorded from slices cut in the horizontal plane. This augmented current produced a shift of the apparent reversal potential to more negative values. 4. Both the forskolin augmentation of the opioid current and the opoid current itself were reduced when the space clamp was improved by cutting the slice in the coronal plane, increasing the extracellular potassium concentration, and treating the slice with carbenoxolone. In addition, forskolin did not change the reversal potential of the opoid current. When expressed as a percentage change from control, forskolin had no significant effect on the opioid current in carbenoxolone (-13 +/- 13%) but produced a small augmentation in high extracellular potassium (15 +/- 4%) and coronoal slices (31 +/- 12%). 5. Two models were tested to explain the action of forskolin, one where cells are coupled electronically by a forskolin-sensitive conductance (coupled-cell model) and a second where opioids mediate an inhibition of a forskolin-induced cation conductance (2-conductance model). The experimental results were fit well only by the coupled-cell model, which predicted that the opioid/forskolin interaction is indirect and occurs primarily in response to forskolin increasing the degree of electrotonic coupling between LC neurons. The consequence of increased coupling would be to augment synchronous activity within the nucleus.

→ source (external link)

My current simplified theory about why this stimulant+CILTEP regimen seems to work so well at solving my problems with motivation, in the most non-science-y way I can describe it:

CILTEP jacks my normally underactive brain into a higher state of energy at baseline. The amphetamine then loosens up my stingy neurotransmitter releasers. Then, the forskolin causes an increase of the level of the opioid response when I do something favorable, which rewards me by slowing my brain down temporarily with pleasurable neurochemicals.

This helps to make the peaks of my pleasurable to non-pleasurable stimuli more distinct, so that motivation can work properly.

Golly gee whiz.

Edited by zrbarnes, 08 December 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Killword]

What were the results of those who tried substituting sesamin for forskolin? I have been having great results with the CILTEP stack (even without any stimulants) but I have experienced some worrying flank pain when the forskolin dose is higher than 5mg. Perhaps I should get a better extract (mine is 10% forskolin) but I'd also like to try substitutions before spending a lot of money on a 90% extract.

Googling "curcumin cAMP" gives a lot of popular articles suggesting that curcumin increases cAMP but I haven't gotten too many conclusive (or understandable) results from pubmed.

Here's one that says "an increase in cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) level was observed after curcumin treatment" but I'm not sure to what degree or if it's in the areas of the brain we're looking for.

Thoughts? I have tried turmeric extract with artichoke extract; I couldn't notice any effect but curcumin has really low bioavailability on its own.

Edited by Killword, 09 December 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

zrbarnes said a few pages back that sesamin killed his libido when he used it instead of forskolin. I think I am going to go back to the c-bolic 95% extract. it just worked better than my current 10% formulation I've been trialing over the last month and I think my GI tract has been more bothersome lately. I wish someone made 5g pure forskolin pills.

[summertimex]

What were the results of those who tried substituting sesamin for forskolin? I have been having great results with the CILTEP stack (even without any stimulants) but I have experienced some worrying flank pain when the forskolin dose is higher than 5mg. Perhaps I should get a better extract (mine is 10% forskolin) but I'd also like to try substitutions before spending a lot of money on a 90% extract.

Googling "curcumin cAMP" gives a lot of popular articles suggesting that curcumin increases cAMP but I haven't gotten too many conclusive (or understandable) results from pubmed.

Here's one that says "an increase in cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) level was observed after curcumin treatment" but I'm not sure to what degree or if it's in the areas of the brain we're looking for.

Thoughts? I have tried turmeric extract with artichoke extract; I couldn't notice any effect but curcumin has really low bioavailability on its own.

curcumin is a neuronal exciter. its activating of various passages, but its not a strong cAMP.
though chilli pepper stuff can cause excitotoxicity.

[djm65]

Been following this thread. Thinking about adding this stack, but concerns about some of the side effects I was reading on some sites. About low blood pressure, elevated heart rate, traycardia. Would this happen even if I went with soloray brand or other that is lower dose?

[gizmobrain]

Been following this thread. Thinking about adding this stack, but concerns about some of the side effects I was reading on some sites. About low blood pressure, elevated heart rate, traycardia. Would this happen even if I went with soloray brand or other that is lower dose?

No one can tell you this. It's an individual reaction, and is mostly reported by people taking 5-10 times too much forskolin, or with people combining it with other supplements or pharmaceuticals that affect blood pressure.