2626 replies to this topic

[Killword]

From http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1621153/

"The IC50 of diazepam as an inhibitor of PDE 4 isoenzyme is 8μM (Collado et al., 1998) which corresponds to a serum concentration of 2.5μgml−1. In the present study the serum concentrations at 5min post-injection were 3.7μgml−1 which clearly produces an inhibitory effect on PDE 4 isoenzyme. The dose of diazepam used in this study is greater than the doses that are used for chronic treatment of anxiety (2–30mgday−1) which produce plasma levels of the drug in the range of 0.02–1.01μgml−1 (Greenblatt et al., 1981)."


Seems like you might need a pretty high dose to see PDE4 inhibition.

[medievil]

From http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1621153/

"The IC50 of diazepam as an inhibitor of PDE 4 isoenzyme is 8μM (Collado et al., 1998) which corresponds to a serum concentration of 2.5μgml−1. In the present study the serum concentrations at 5min post-injection were 3.7μgml−1 which clearly produces an inhibitory effect on PDE 4 isoenzyme. The dose of diazepam used in this study is greater than the doses that are used for chronic treatment of anxiety (2–30mgday−1) which produce plasma levels of the drug in the range of 0.02–1.01μgml−1 (Greenblatt et al., 1981)."


Seems like you might need a pretty high dose to see PDE4 inhibition.

Hmm allright, ill add in quercetin again just want to know wheter there's a way to get around the camp inhibition? also does that mechanism affect camp increase by nefi?

All i know is that even with massive doses quercetin and forskolin i never even got any side effects wich is a bad sign (back in the days i just took phenibut)... well lets look into some way around this i want my fucking LTP.

Also without benzo's nefi was the most extreme ap possible bam just reversed semi psychosis with a benzo it doesnt do that anymore.

I cant stop benzo's as on stims i get severe anxiety with nefi i dont but i got some autoimume issue benzo's supress i think i start shaking like i got parkinson, cant see shit because of trouble vision and other shit(benzo's are effective against autoimunity in some cases.) I slowly die if i take stims without benzo's tought it was lupus or something no idea, even 5mg dex induces symptions thank god for benzo's ability to llet the body kill off excessive imume cells. Its with all stims they trigger autoimunity for some strange reason.

Edited by medievil, 25 January 2013 - 12:20 AM.

[medievil]

I allways had that autoimume response or what it is with stims, its not drug induced lupus caused by abuse that goes away again.

So it looks like it raises cAMP but supresses forskolin, makes me wonder about nefi.

[health_nutty]

I allways had that autoimume response or what it is with stims, its not drug induced lupus caused by abuse that goes away again.

So it looks like it raises cAMP but supresses forskolin, makes me wonder about nefi.

Are you taking forskolin?

[medievil]

not anymore, i ran out ages ago, im trying nefiracetam as a replacement now wich should be far superior to forskolin as a cAMP increaser.

Anyone tried nac on the cilltep stack? Took 1200mg an hour ago.

As an aside while i dont take quercetin, stim potentiation is there full force, holy shit gotta be carefull dosing desoxy and mdpv tomorrow, was way to strong today.

[Killword]

As an aside while i dont take quercetin, stim potentiation is there full force, holy shit gotta be carefull dosing desoxy and mdpv tomorrow, was way to strong today.

What does mdpv do for you? I can't think of a less therapeutic stim and it seems to be quite capable of inducing psychotic effects (especially in combination with the methamphetamine you're taking, I'd imagine).

Edited by Killword, 25 January 2013 - 01:57 AM.

[medievil]

I cant tolerate it without desoxypipradol, on its own it causes paranoia and is way to harsh, in combination with desoxy the effects are entirely differened, its motivating, the addictive effects go away mostly (allways forget to redose on desoxy) i find this combo the least likely i abuse and most therapeutic, only the combo tough, i cant tolerate mdpv on its own at all.

Only had psychosis was straight after i added a sigma antagonist, easy to blame it on that but for several extended periods the combo worked fine, the trick is to allways go to bed, eat, dont try to get as high as possible etc, the opposite of what ppl do at bluelight.

Both desoxy and mdpv are alot more selective for da then NE, i think this is why i like them so much more then others, something that goes well with my particular brainchemistry.

I dont take methamphetamine, and never even did lol.

Benzo's are my guard against psychosis, at first augmented with phenibut and amisulpiride not sure wheter i need those too to keep psychosis far away. All stims without benzo's induce paranoia and anxiety for me besides, i def need benzo's with them.

[medievil]

As an aside i originally started using them as uk medical care is useless and had to self medicate and i could only afford those, i really like dexedrine too and now im back in belguim for a bit will try to get a script for that, i forgot what it was like so would be interesting to compare.

I got ritalin er prescribed here allready but even with benzo's thats like being on a horrid 24/7 panic attack, i liked it in the past when i was addicted to GBL but hate the shit now, impossible to tolerate and most normal docs here dont prescribe dex, need a pdoc for that.

Edited by medievil, 25 January 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[medievil]

Anyone tried the addition of nac to the cilltep stack?

[norepinephrine]

Picked up some 95% forskolin.

For those interested, check USPowders - 2g, 95%, $18 before shipping.

Picked up some 95% forskolin.

For those interested, check USPowders - 2g, 95%, $18 before shipping.

[medievil]

Jeezes christ im so fucking sensitive to my stims, really low doses make me high as hell wtf, normally at this level its just therapeutic or still feel tired, also appears that it potentiates the euphoric effects? But that maybe the lack of amisulpiride. Ill throw in noopept.

Yesterday my normal doses caused a constant panic attack, and with mini doses now this, crazy potentiation.

[Olon]

@medievil
Do you still take quercetin?
Do you think artichoce without forskolin will make sense?

[medievil]

Jeezes christ im so fucking sensitive to my stims, really low doses make me high as hell wtf, normally at this level its just therapeutic or still feel tired, also appears that it potentiates the euphoric effects? But that maybe the lack of amisulpiride. Ill throw in noopept.

Yesterday my normal doses caused a constant panic attack, and with mini doses now this, crazy potentiation.

This may be caused by mild diazepam withdrawal, needed to get more benzo's, as i was more high in a psychotic way, nothing too bad just couldnt stop talking, benzo withdrawal shouldnt be messed with...

@medievil
Do you still take quercetin?
Do you think artichoce without forskolin will make sense?

no i dont have any left, id like to take it again tough, ill see, wonna keep sups minimal too.

[peakplasma]

Picked up some 95% forskolin.

For those interested, check USPowders - 2g, 95%, $18 before shipping.

How are you planning to measure out 5-10mg doses? Will you use a solvent? Or do you own a mg scale?

[fenra]

Hey tone it down guys, I'd hate to be your hepatocytes... actually wouldn't love being my own, either.

[medievil]

Id need a D2 blocker on this combo, cAMP potentiates D2 too much, wich isnt a good thing, talk too much even on minimal doses and is bad for cognition, D2 also causes manic behavor a bit, noopept and aniracetam balanced this out perfectly but i ran out of them.

Papaverine may be interesting but the formulation i can get it in is stupid can only try it for an hour, ill see wheter i can get quercetin at the pharmacy too as the PDE4 inhibition puts balance more on D1.

The klonopin works, just cant beleive how strongly potentiated my stims are, dont like it when its too much in a D2 way, thats why i liked amisulpiride shifts balance too D1 and D4.

Never trust an addict saying he didnt take much haha, but serieusly i took so fucking little its insane, and others reported this too, well seems to indicate the benzo doesnt block the camp increase by nefi.

Edited by medievil, 25 January 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[norepinephrine]

Peak plasma: I own an mg scale.

[peakplasma]

Peak plasma: I own an mg scale.

Let us know how it goes then. The measurement question has always held me back.

Would a cheap scale like this one suffice?

[medievil]

Never trust an addict saying he didnt take much haha, but serieusly i took so fucking little its insane, and others reported this too, well seems to indicate the benzo doesnt block the camp increase by nefi.

Ehh i actually did this many times for some reason say i barely took something while i did take more, i suppose it was addiction a bit in me doing that as most addicted people do that, will be honest from now on tough.

Also yes im addicted to stimulants but i manage my addiction by eating, sleeping, keeping the doses within limits basicly keeping the negatives out of bay, but realising i posted shit like i barely took some things makes me think i gotta change more.

Thats why im gonna see my pdoc soon to help stay at more therapeutic doses, altough i managed to live with my addiction pretty well, the fact i sometimes lied is a bad indication. However it is a fact that my stims are dramatically potentiated atm, so will try to balance it a bit with a D2 blocker.

Srry to post this there but i cant let addiction take me over in even subtle ways, just realised this and posted the truth as i should, now lets see what d2 blockers are available here.

Hmm D2 blockers should block the mania, otherwise ill stop cilltep.

Edited by medievil, 25 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[peakplasma]

Never trust an addict saying he didnt take much haha, but serieusly i took so fucking little its insane, and others reported this too, well seems to indicate the benzo doesnt block the camp increase by nefi.

Ehh i actually did this many times for some reason say i barely took something while i did take more, i suppose it was addiction a bit in me doing that as most addicted people do that, will be honest from now on tough.

Also yes im addicted to stimulants but i manage my addiction by eating, sleeping, keeping the doses within limits basicly keeping the negatives out of bay, but realising i posted shit like i barely took some things makes me think i gotta change more.

Thats why im gonna see my pdoc soon to help stay at more therapeutic doses, altough i managed to live with my addiction pretty well, the fact i sometimes lied is a bad indication. However it is a fact that my stims are dramatically potentiated atm, so will try to balance it a bit with a D2 blocker.

Srry to post this there but i cant let addiction take me over in even subtle ways, just realised this and posted the truth as i should, now lets see what d2 blockers are available here.

Hmm D2 blockers should block the mania, otherwise ill stop cilltep.

Theoretically, LTP is a trigger for addiction but in that same vein, it can also be a powerful tool to break addiction.

So be careful and stay strong man. Please PM me if/when you need a hand.

[medievil]

I have a addiction i can manage, i eat fine, go to sleep, live like normal people, so its ok, its just that the mania like i had now is a pain in the ass and D2 is cognitively impairing.

Just took a D2 blocker, so byebye mania, it was good to make me realise that i do tend do lie about some things with regards to my addiction wich is a big no no and i need to work on before it gets worse.

I used to be far worse addicted to stims in the past, lately i can manage being addicted, its basicly being higher then being on therapeutic doses, and im satisfied for that for the time being.

[medievil]

I did often mess up with my ocd and combining too much stuff, like 4 stims togheter, sertraline with mdai and cannabinoids and stupid combo's, but ive gotten over that as it lead me to be psychotic after being shizo free for more then a year, luckily i dont think its a relapse, just a normal consequence of such idiocy, i need to learn from my mistakes.

Either way its time to be honest, i take a bit more then therapeutic doses, dont see why i allways lied about it, i dont give a shit what others think, i do beleive that when managed properly it can be sustainable as long the body isnt taxed more then normal, and neuroprotection is taken place, worked out well for several long periods for me, so well see. I will def make sure i can be productive and avoid getting too high instead wich ive been doing, i found that when not really bored inside motivation is still possible wich goes against my old hypothesis.

What i would need a hand with are week breaks once and awhile wich i consider essential to make this work out long term, but those will be hard.

Edited by medievil, 25 January 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[medievil]

I got Metoclopramide, its supposed to be a D2 blocker and 5HT4 agonist both wich will induce cyclic amp so should show synergy. I wish aniracetam it removed my ocd and bothering posting all this shit online here haha.

Either way im here in belguim to get more stable, but its ups and downs and some ppl judge me for the downs straight away, i gave up phenibut wich was like a buffer for the mania or the anxiety of stims so its hard to get things right, i acted weird on benzo withdrawal and ppl assume straight away im doing really awefull or whatever, jeeze give me a fucking chance. Benzo's wear off suddenly wich i didnt notice on phenibut as it was like a buffer.s

Either way massively fucking up is what i often did, thats part of experimenting but in the end im allright, not a a fucking shizo retard i saw in wards on fucking ap's shaking like they got the parkinson shake, no way i end up like that. Still talkative wich seems induced by D2 didnt redose stims, will take more d2 blocker.

Never trust an addict saying he didnt take much haha, but serieusly i took so fucking little its insane, and others reported this too, well seems to indicate the benzo doesnt block the camp increase by nefi.

Ehh i actually did this many times for some reason say i barely took something while i did take more, i suppose it was addiction a bit in me doing that as most addicted people do that, will be honest from now on tough.

Also yes im addicted to stimulants but i manage my addiction by eating, sleeping, keeping the doses within limits basicly keeping the negatives out of bay, but realising i posted shit like i barely took some things makes me think i gotta change more.

Thats why im gonna see my pdoc soon to help stay at more therapeutic doses, altough i managed to live with my addiction pretty well, the fact i sometimes lied is a bad indication. However it is a fact that my stims are dramatically potentiated atm, so will try to balance it a bit with a D2 blocker.

Srry to post this there but i cant let addiction take me over in even subtle ways, just realised this and posted the truth as i should, now lets see what d2 blockers are available here.

Hmm D2 blockers should block the mania, otherwise ill stop cilltep.

Theoretically, LTP is a trigger for addiction but in that same vein, it can also be a powerful tool to break addiction.

So be careful and stay strong man. Please PM me if/when you need a hand.

Can ltp be used to bring you back to the state before stim addiction where stims caused motivation instead of seeking out rewarding activity's? They allways do that once you get addicted.

Errr split thread anyone?

[medievil]

D2 blockade and end of mania thats all it takes, cAMP potentiates D2 way too much, will keep a ap around.
Srry to derail this thread, splitting it would be a good idea.

[OpaqueMind]

Chill out on the multi-post monologues man. I think you're deluding yourself (or rather your nuclear accumbens is deluding the rest of your brain) if you think you can sustain a stim habit long term without suffering the consequences.

As a member of a forum dedicated to optimizing your brainpower, what you take seems counter-intuitive. Maybe ADD over at bluelight would be better suited for your manic ramblings. Or maybe just a piece of paper? Not trying to be a douche, I just dont see the relevance of this.

[medievil]

Haha man that manic state i def dont wonna sustain, dont get me wrong.

[norepinephrine]

Medieval, I'm glad you're coming to the realization that you have a problem with substance abuse, but ultimately you have to realize that you can't replace problems with one substance by taking another. If you want to be cured of an addiction, you have to cease all pharmaceuticals/drugs.

[medievil]

In silico pharmacology suggests ginger extracts may reduce stroke risks.
Chang TT, Chen KC, Chang KW, Chen HY, Tsai FJ, Sun MF, Chen CY
Laboratory of Computational and Systems Biology, School of Chinese Medicine, China Medical University, Taichung, 40402, Taiwan.
Aberrations in cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) signaling cascade has been linked to the allergic responses that associate with the risks of stroke or cardiovascular diseases. Phosphodiesterase 4D (PDE4D) has been shown to be highly involved in cAMP regulation and is hence implied to be a potential drug target in stroke prevention. To identify potential PDE4D inhibitors from traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), we employed machine learning modeling techniques to screen a comprehensive TCM database. The multiple linear regression (MLR) and support vector machine (SVM) models constructed have correlation coefficients of 0.8234 and 0.7854 respectively. Three candidates from the ginger family were identified based on the prediction models. Molecular dynamics simulation further validated the binding stabilities of each candidate in comparison to the control inhibitor L-454560. The intermolecular distances suggested that the candidates could hinder PDE4D from binding to cAMP. Furthermore, the HypoGen validation suggested that top2, top3, and the control L-454560 mapped with the predicted pharmacophores. The results suggested that the 3 compounds identified from the ginger family were capable in inhibiting cAMP binding and hydrolysis by PDE4D. We further identified and characterized the ligand binding properties that are associated with the inhibition of PDE4D.

Went to get ginseng but there only was a mix with ginger, also when i came home saw it were ampoules for IM injection, im curious never saw ginseng or so for injection.

Edited by medievil, 26 January 2013 - 06:59 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

I'm crossposting this from another thread but apparently there's a new study out that says PDE4 inhibition has viagra like effects in women!

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23347325

The cAMP-degrading phosphodiesterase 4 (PDE4) is expressed in the vagina and clitoris, but no information is available on the functional role for PDE4-related signals in the female neurovascular genital response.
...
Compared with control stimulations, rolipram (0.3 mg/kg) caused a twofold increase in peak blood flow (P < 0.05) and fourfold increase of the rate of clitoral blood flow during activation of the DCN [Dorsal Clitoral Nerve] (P < 0.05). Simultaneously, a twofold increase in peak blood flow and threefold increase in rate of blood flow were noted in the vagina (P < 0.05). Similar effects were noted for sildenafil (0.2 mg/kg) (P < 0.05). Inhibitory effects by L-NNA (60 mg/kg) on blood flow responses to DCN activation were significantly lower for rats treated with rolipram than with sildenafil (P < 0.05). PGE1-induced (10 μg) blood flow responses were significantly higher (P < 0.05) in rats treated with rolipram than with sildenafil. CONCLUSIONS.: These findings suggest that the cAMP/PDE4 system may be of similar functional importance as the nitric oxide/cyclic guanosine monophosphate/PDE5 pathway for neurovascular genital responses of the female rat.

Before we get our hopes up, this might only work in mice, or maybe only with Rolipram. Would any women taking CILTEP care to confirm or deny if it works in humans too?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 26 January 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[medievil]

Medieval, I'm glad you're coming to the realization that you have a problem with substance abuse, but ultimately you have to realize that you can't replace problems with one substance by taking another. If you want to be cured of an addiction, you have to cease all pharmaceuticals/drugs.

My addiction is manageble and can work long term health wise as i sleep, eat, can go to work etc, the problem is that decission making is impaired in sometimes important situations due to my mood being higher and resorting to more acute rewarding things, altough, stopping pharms is absolutely no option as i would live in hell then (anhedonia, sa, etc all other issues) it would be a quite stupid things to do, heck id even say a full blown addiction is better then living in anhedonia (true anhedonia, not boredom).

Edited by medievil, 26 January 2013 - 09:49 PM.