2626 replies to this topic

[medievil]

Gonna try combining sesame extract with dipyridamole today also take hesperidin, ran across that sup today, the pharmacy's here didnt have forskolin and im going back to uk soon.

6. Inhibitory effect of mast cell-mediated immediate-type allergic reactions in rats by spirulina.

Biochem Pharmacol. 1998 Apr 1;55(7):1071-6. Kim HM, Lee EH, Cho HH, Moon YH. Department of Oriental Pharmacy, College of Pharmacy, Wonkwang University,
Iksan, Chonbuk, South Korea. hmkim@med.wonkwang.ac.kr

We investigated the effect of spirulina on mast cell-mediated immediate-type allergic reactions. Spirulina dose-dependently inhibited the systemic allergic reaction induced by compound 48/80 in rats. Spirulina inhibited compound 48/80- induced allergic reaction 100% with doses of 100-1000 microg/g body weight, i.p. Spirulina (10-1000 microg/g body weight, i.p.) also significantly inhibited local allergic reaction activated by anti-dinitrophenyl (DNP) IgE. When rats were pretreated with spirulina at a concentration ranging from 0.01 to 1000 microg/g body weight, i.p., the serum histamine levels were reduced in a dose-dependent manner. Spirulina (0.001 to 10 microg/mL) dose-dependently inhibited histamine release from rat peritoneal mast cells (RPMC) activated by compound 48/80 or anti-DNP IgE. The level of cyclic AMP in RPMC, when spirulina (10 microg/mL) was added, transiently and significantly increased about 70-fold at 10 sec compared with that of control cells. Moreover, spirulina (10 microg/mL) had a significant inhibitory effect on anti-DNP IgE-induced tumor necrosis factor-alpha production. These results indicate that spirulina inhibits mast cell-mediated immediate-type allergic reactions in vivo and in vitro.

No idea wheter its relevant, got spirulina too, made me feel great in the past. Its all dirt cheap sups from the store here but they have good reputation, got shit for 2 euro's what normally costs 10 euro's lol, so maybe its crap but hasnt got the reputation to be.

[medievil]

Getting some kind of idgy pleasant orgasmic feeling all over my nerves.

[medievil]

It turned more itchy now and isnt pleasant anymore.

Ill try some more sesamin, also wasnt exactly the effect i looked for lol.

[medievil]

Seems like it reduced my ocd, forskolin caused ocd more.
Bad news as i need another ocd attack to catagorise all my info on herbal therapeutic compounds i found during the last attack.

[medievil]

Damn got a headache.

[abelard lindsay]

Gonna try combining sesame extract with dipyridamole today also take hesperidin, ran across that sup today, the pharmacy's here didnt have forskolin and im going back to uk soon.

I tried Hesperidin a couple of months back with the stack. I stopped taking it though because, although it was strong and caused very intense motivation, after a few days of taking it I felt very aggressive and got severe tunnel vision from it. I totally blew up verbally at people over stupid stuff a few times. Nothing really bad happened, but I wouldn't want to walk around feeling that way on a regular basis.

Dipryndamol looks like a mixed pde5 and pde10 inhibitor(http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16621445) , so not technically CILTEP,. Enjoy your pde5 inhibition induced erection. Pde10 inhibition may have cognitive enhancement properties (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22951181)

I'm more interested in Mesembrine as a component of the stack. It is a very selective and potent pde4 inhibitor (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21798331).

When I take new variants of the stack, I always have some GABA handy in case I get overstimulated. I also find it is good to be near a bathroom in case some of the gastrointestinal symptoms that are known to be a problem with some types of PDE4 inhibition occur.

That being said, please realize that taking random PDE affecting stacks that nobody has tried before has its theoretical risks and is not something I would recommend to the average person.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 March 2013 - 06:30 PM.

[medievil]

Hmm i tought dipyridamole was non selective, it doesnt induce erections for me tough wich is a shame as i could use help with that on stims.

Is hesperidin a PDE4? I got benzo's enough thats no problem, currently feel like my brain feels heavy and feel kinda weak but it may be because i barely redose my stimulants, minocycline and other stuff is anti addictive while i actually even should as i need the therapeutic effects lol what a paradox.

[medievil]

How strange you are correct! i completely remembered it as being non selective.

Ill try adding in pentoxyfiline then its cheap to get.

I do take ginseng too wich inhibits PDE4, so should be on cilltep technically.
Yup hesperidin is selective for PDE1 and 4, ginseng just 4 if im correct, so its cilltep effects i should have!

No matter how much i take i NEVER had gastro problems, sign i massively overexpress PDE4? PDE4 overexpression is associated with shizophrenia.

My productivity was really optimal the last days either way, ocd based yeah but got quete an output with info to post here, just today added in sesamin.

That being said, please realize that taking random PDE affecting stacks that nobody has tried before has its theoretical risks and is not something I would recommend to the average person.

Completely agreed, but im not the average person, experimentation is my second name, haha perhaps a bad thing but its connected to my personality.

Edited by medievil, 09 March 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

How strange you are correct! i completely remembered it as being non selective.

Ill try adding in pentoxyfiline then its cheap to get.

I do take ginseng too wich inhibits PDE4, so should be on cilltep technically.
Yup hesperidin is selective for PDE1 and 4, ginseng just 4 if im correct, so its cilltep effects i should have!

No matter how much i take i NEVER had gastro problems, sign i massively overexpress PDE4? PDE4 overexpression is associated with shizophrenia.

I would not take Benzos and pentoxyfiline together. It's extremely dangerous:
http://en.wikipedia..../Pentoxifylline

Co-administration of pentoxifylline and sodium thiopental (Gaba-A Agonist) may cause death by acute pulmonary edema in rats.^[11]

I wouldn't even take Pentoxifyline since it is such a general PDE inhibitor. You don't want to raise cAMP everywhere in the body. That's why we stopped taking Quercetin with the stack!

Medevil, you really should exercise more caution when throwing all these prescription meds together, especially Benzos!

[medievil]

Ill look up who's ass i still need to kick in for when the tunnel vision and agression kicks in, will do me good haha.

How strange you are correct! i completely remembered it as being non selective.

Ill try adding in pentoxyfiline then its cheap to get.

I do take ginseng too wich inhibits PDE4, so should be on cilltep technically.
Yup hesperidin is selective for PDE1 and 4, ginseng just 4 if im correct, so its cilltep effects i should have!

No matter how much i take i NEVER had gastro problems, sign i massively overexpress PDE4? PDE4 overexpression is associated with shizophrenia.

I would not take Benzos and pentoxyfiline together. It's extremely dangerous:
http://en.wikipedia..../Pentoxifylline

Co-administration of pentoxifylline and sodium thiopental (Gaba-A Agonist) may cause death by acute pulmonary edema in rats.^[11]

I wouldn't even take Pentoxifyline since it is such a general PDE inhibitor. You don't want to raise cAMP everywhere in the body. That's why we stopped taking Quercetin with the stack!

Medevil, you really should exercise more caution when throwing all these prescription meds together, especially Benzos!

I know my stacks are quite deadly, such as the things that prolong QT interval, but i live at the border wich is what made me succesfull in overcoming my issues, you cant make me more carefull this is me, but thx for the warning mate! thats def a good one, cant see my pdoc for a while who sees me as a collegue we learn from eachother and he also warns me about stuff like that, thx mate.

I massively calmed down compared to the past, you wouldnt have an idea how i survived my past stacks, but then again was more shizo then and threw as much as possible togheter, and switching everyday, was really impaired back then, now im just my risk taking self:)

You don't want to raise cAMP everywhere in the body.

I disagree, most of them are cognitive enhancing, so why not?

I make sure to have enough antidotes at home, like beta blockers if my heartrate starts fucking up when i took too much stuff that prolongs QT interval, my only concern now is bleedings as dipy allready tins blood and ginseng too, not sure what antidote i could use for that, not one available id gues.

Edited by medievil, 09 March 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[medievil]

"Sildenafil is used as a preventive treatment for altitude-induced pulmonary edema and pulmonary hypertension,^[14][15] the mechanism of action is via phosphodiesterase inhibition which raises cGMP, resulting in pulmonary arterial vasodilation and inhibition of smooth muscle cell proliferation.^[16] While this effect has only recently been discovered, sildenafil is already becoming an accepted treatment for this condition, in particular in situations where the standard treatment of rapid descent has been delayed for some reason.<sup>[17]"

ha</sup> like this is allways the case, i would have survived that combo as dipy would have counteracted that deadly side effect, i allways got away with things like that with pure luck lol.

You know im half taking the piss, i know i gotta be more carefull, im just quite impulsive and too optimistic, got away with too much and extreme optimism is in my nature so allways assume ill be ok.

[medievil]

I turned a bit hypomanic on this combo, ill take some phenytoin.

[bobz1lla]

I wouldn't even take Pentoxifyline since it is such a general PDE inhibitor. You don't want to raise cAMP everywhere in the body. That's why we stopped taking Quercetin with the stack!

I was under the impression Forskolin is raising cAMP in cells throughout the body. It has impact over a wide range of systems. Can you elaborate? Maybe this has already been discussed.

[medievil]

It only gets significantly raised under PDE4's hood, the other area's its only mildly raised thats why ppl recommened to take small doses of it.

[abelard lindsay]

Took 80mg of Kanna and 5mg of forskolin about 2 hours ago. Not bad. Kinda serene even. I tied my high score on paired associates twice and got within one of my high score on grammatical reasoning. So, all in all, it might be doing something. I took a really low dose of Kanna, as most people say they need to take 500mg to get any effect at all, but I wanted to be careful at first. No bad side effects (yet). Maybe I'll try a higher dose tomorrow.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 10 March 2013 - 02:00 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

Update after one more hour... Hmm... Over on Cambridge Brain Sciences, Paired Associates score is down a notch but not horrible. Spatial Search is about average. Grammatical Reasoning tied my high score of all time! I just got my highest score ever on odd-one-out and I've played that game 100s of times. Added a bit of piracetam and citicholine to the mix about an hour ago. I take both of these pretty regularly so I would have scored better if it was just them.. Hmm the common thread seems to be reasoning tests. Short-Term memory is not enhanced. I wish there was a good test of long-term memory. My current test is seeing in what amount of detail I can rewind my day in my head but that's subjective and only very roughly measurable.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 10 March 2013 - 03:32 AM.

[ThepickLe]

Has anyone tried Pyritinol with this stack? Though I find that Pyritinol does stimulate me, but the stimulation and effect it has on how I feel almost overrides my ability to think. That's at 400mg's. I'm thinking about dropping it down to 100mg's and giving it a try with this stack

Edited by ThepickLe, 10 March 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Now I know the "Now Artichoke Extract" is 425mg's (I think). Do you think the additional 350mg's of Artichoke Extract could cause my slight headache? Or is there something else at work here?

Could be. I got a very mild headache on mesembrine today.

I will also note that I take a multi-vitamin, juice on a regular basis, exercise on a regular basis and as of late, take bacopa. However, I only take that before I go to sleep. I'm not sure how long it stays in your body and has an interaction with the stack above.

Any info would be great! By the way excellent thread and excellent forums!!! I wish I would have come across this a long time ago.

Also, any suggestions for someone that is allergic to Artichoke? My wife has ADD, but she's seriously allergic to Artichoke. I know you had suggest Quercetin, but then dropped it.

Luteolin is the active ingredient in the artichoke. In pure form it's expensive (about $80 for a bottle of Lutimax). However, she might also be alergic to that too.

Quercetin at low doses (100mg or less) provides a motivational benefit for me but it degrades my working memory after a while. Hesperidin has its own set of problems. Kanna is interesting but I just started experimenting with it. Maybe Genistein? Since it's phytoestrogenic it's probably more appropriate for women. Though not a lot of people have tried that either.

Also, have you seen this thread (http://www.longecity...entrophenoxine/).

Edited by abelard lindsay, 10 March 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[ThepickLe]

Now I know the "Now Artichoke Extract" is 425mg's (I think). Do you think the additional 350mg's of Artichoke Extract could cause my slight headache? Or is there something else at work here?

Could be. I got a very mild headache on mesembrine today.

I will also note that I take a multi-vitamin, juice on a regular basis, exercise on a regular basis and as of late, take bacopa. However, I only take that before I go to sleep. I'm not sure how long it stays in your body and has an interaction with the stack above.

Any info would be great! By the way excellent thread and excellent forums!!! I wish I would have come across this a long time ago.

Also, any suggestions for someone that is allergic to Artichoke? My wife has ADD, but she's seriously allergic to Artichoke. I know you had suggest Quercetin, but then dropped it.

Luteolin is the active ingredient in the artichoke. In pure form it's expensive (about $80 for a bottle of Lutimax). However, she might also be alergic to that too.

Quercetin at low doses (100mg or less) provides a motivational benefit for me but it degrades my working memory after a while. Hesperidin has its own set of problems. Kanna is interesting but I just started experimenting with it. Maybe Genistein? Since it's phytoestrogenic it's probably more appropriate for women. Though not a lot of people have tried that either.

Also, have you seen this thread (http://www.longecity...entrophenoxine/).

Thanks for the advice and suggestions! Much appreciated! I've been messing around with the combination. Yesterday, I tried taking out L-phynylalanine. I didn't have a headache, but I'm not sure that I actually got any benefit out of the stack. I actually found myself having difficulty concentrating and speaking. I was stumbling a lot with my words. Today, I tried upping the Forskolin to 2 of the 3.85mg's and only 1 of the artichoke at 600mg's without the L-phylalanine. It seems to be a little better so far, but I only recently took it (within the hour).

I wonder if I should stay with the L-Phylalanine. This is just a precursor to dopamine, and probably doesn't have much effect on the actual stack or how I feel? It's mainly from my understanding and of reading this thread to replace the dopamine, because raising your cAMP can deplete it.

Essentially what I'm trying to improve is memory, focus and verbal fluidity. I tend to use "umm" or spend time searching for words when speaking. It drives me crazy that my thoughts just aren't there when i want them to be. The only thing that has helped in the past is coffee.

Edited by ThepickLe, 10 March 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[ThepickLe]

Well, I tried the Pyritinol. While I had flashes of the ability to remember something in great detail. It almost feels like it reversed the feeling I got from the stack. Though, I found in a few situations it allowed me to see something and remember it in great detail in my mind. For example, when I was driving home, I just happen to look at an address that I never look at. I only briefly looked at it and few hours later I can recall the image in my head and remember what the address is as well as all the details.

[xsiv1]

Has anyone taken this stack twice in one day? I get such a nice lift from it first thing in the morning that, at times, I feel like taking it during my afternoon drained feeling.

[Reformed-Redan]

I was doing some research and came across this. Very very potent cAMP inhibitor.
http://molpharm.aspe.../6/554.abstract

A potent and selective inhibitor of cyclic AMP phosphodiesterase with potential cardiotonic and antithrombotic properties.

• R Alvarez,
  
• G L Banerjee,
  
• J J Bruno,
  
• G L Jones,
  
• K Littschwager,
  
• A M Strosberg and
  
• M C Venuti

Abstract

Some biochemical and pharmacological properties of a novel, potent inhibitor of cyclic AMP phosphodiesterase, N-cyclohexyl-N-methyl-4-(7-oxy-1,2,3,5-tetrahydroimidazo[2,1-b] quinazolin-2-one) butyramide (RS-82856), were investigated. RS-82856 selectively inhibits the high affinity form of cyclic AMP phosphodiesterase (type IV) isolated from human platelets (Ki = 0.5 nM) with only weak effects on both the nonspecific and cyclic GMP-sensitive phosphodiesterases. The inhibitor reduces both maximum velocity and substrate affinity of the type IV enzyme. This mixed pattern of partial competitive and noncompetitive inhibition was also obtained with one of the two high affinity forms of phosphodiesterase found in dog heart (Ki = 0.75 nM). Of several human and dog tissues examined, RS-82856 exhibits marked selectively for the platelet high affinity enzyme. It also has significant inhibitory effects on cardiac membrane-bound phosphodiesterase. RS-82856 inhibits the aggregation of human platelets in response to adenosine 5'-diphosphate (IC50 = 0.11 microM) in vitro and is active ex vivo for at least 2 hr following oral administration (10 mg/kg) to rhesus monkeys. Administration of RS-82856 to instrumented, anesthetized dogs by either intravenous or intraduodenal routes increases cardiac contractile force and reduces afterload. These data suggest that RS-82856 may be useful as an agent to increase cardiac output in the treatment of congestive heart failure.

Edited by redan, 11 March 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

The stuffs dirt cheap also.

[peakplasma]

The stuffs dirt cheap also.

Do you have a source for it?

[BioFreak]

is forskolin only needed to increase tyrosine hydroxylase?

[medievil]

Gotu kola alternative camper? it may be caused by pde4 tough but it does increase camp will look further into it.

[xsiv1]

I'm currently using 4-500mgs Artichoke, 10-15mgs Coleus Forskoli extract and 350mgs Acetyl L-Tyrosine or 500mgs l-phenylalanine with positive results in focus, alertness, verbal fluency, and libido/erectile dept. I'm on day 35ish and have been taking Saturday and Sunday off where I'll normally take a racetam , choline combo of sorts. Some days centro, others alpha-gpc. So far so good, but even after a light lunch, I'm still getting an afternoon slump in the office. I exercise with weights and cardio and I'm thinking I need to up my slow burning complex carbs. But they're pretty gross to me lol. I need a pick me up at 2-2:30 that doesn't involve caffeine, ephedrine or disturb my sleep heh. Sulbutiamine used to do the trick but I refuse to go over 400mgs. It's the reason I asked if anyone has ever used the CILTEP stack more than once in a day. I know I should address the root cause, but for the sake of someone whose pressed for time as it is (on recumbent now). Anyone get benefit from those green food shakes around lunch? (12pm). Tried Maca.. It's not doing anything discernible. ALCAR, multi - vitamins, EFAs, antioxidants are all used in modest amounts and I don't use alcar everyday.

Edited by xsiv1, 13 March 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I'm currently using 4-500mgs Artichoke, 10-15mgs Coleus Forskoli extract and 350mgs Acetyl L-Tyrosine or 500mgs l-phenylalanine with positive results in focus, alertness, verbal fluency, and libido/erectile dept. I'm on day 35ish and have been taking Saturday and Sunday off where I'll normally take a racetam , choline combo of sorts. Some days centro, others alpha-gpc. So far so good, but even after a light lunch, I'm still getting an afternoon slump in the office. I exercise with weights and cardio and I'm thinking I need to up my slow burning complex carbs. But they're pretty gross to me lol. I need a pick me up at 2-2:30 that doesn't involve caffeine, ephedrine or disturb my sleep heh. Sulbutiamine used to do the trick but I refuse to go over 400mgs. It's the reason I asked if anyone has ever used the CILTEP stack more than once in a day. I know I should address the root cause, but for the sake of someone whose pressed for time as it is (on recumbent now). Anyone get benefit from those green food shakes around lunch? (12pm). Tried Maca.. It's not doing anything discernible. ALCAR, multi - vitamins, EFAs, antioxidants are all used in modest amounts and I don't use alcar everyday.

You could try Rhodiola, it seems to go well with this stack. It'll raise your catecholamines and serotonin without burning you out. It can even improve sleep quality despite its stimulative nature: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12423559

Green superfoods can work atleast spirulina/chlorella based tend to give very natural feeling energy.

[Galaxyshock]

Gotu kola alternative camper? it may be caused by pde4 tough but it does increase camp will look further into it.

Interesting. It's usually combined with Ginseng and other herbs in TCM so perhaps the chinese have had ciltep for two thousand years lol

[abelard lindsay]

I need a pick me up at 2-2:30 that doesn't involve caffeine, ephedrine or disturb my sleep heh. Sulbutiamine used to do the trick but I refuse to go over 400mgs. It's the reason I asked if anyone has ever used the CILTEP stack more than once in a day. I know I should address the root cause, but for the sake of someone whose pressed for time as it is (on recumbent now). Anyone get benefit from those green food shakes around lunch? (12pm). Tried Maca.. It's not doing anything discernible. ALCAR, multi - vitamins, EFAs, antioxidants are all used in modest amounts and I don't use alcar everyday.

I've been taking a Jarrow 350mg N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine to get through the afternoon. It takes about 45 minutes to kick in. I am still working on perfecting the timing of when I take it. So far, taking it at about 1pm seems to work pretty well.