2626 replies to this topic

[Suirsuss]

down to very few caps of my first CILTP purchase and am looking to get some more ...not sure if i should venture to try kanna or stick with the artichoke? input?

! but more importantly: 6 days ago I received 2 grams sunifiram. I know its not very much time to give a thorough assessment but after being very pleased with the forskolin+artichoke I do say this combination is phenomenal. Anxiolytic. mood elevation. socializing is a breeze (i'm quite the introvert). All this and ive been destroying my edX and coursera courses without exhaustion.

2 more classes started today so we'll see how long it holds true. reports from the suniforum are looking good for low diminishing effects.

[abelard lindsay]

down to very few caps of my first CILTP purchase and am looking to get some more ...not sure if i should venture to try kanna or stick with the artichoke? input?

! but more importantly: 6 days ago I received 2 grams sunifiram. I know its not very much time to give a thorough assessment but after being very pleased with the forskolin+artichoke I do say this combination is phenomenal. Anxiolytic. mood elevation. socializing is a breeze (i'm quite the introvert). All this and ive been destroying my edX and coursera courses without exhaustion.

2 more classes started today so we'll see how long it holds true. reports from the suniforum are looking good for low diminishing effects.

Hmm.. Maybe it was the Zembrin that made Suni have a bad come down for me but when I took it and it was working, it was great. Zembrin/CILTEP was crazy awesome for studying. After i stopped taking it and switched back to Artichoke I didn't have the drive to keep up with some of the courses I was taking and cut back to finishing one out of the four I started. Artichoke was better for socializing and mood though. Are you taking the stack unmodified? Any special brands of Forskolin or Artichoke?

[Suirsuss]

Hmm.. Maybe it was the Zembrin that made Suni have a bad come down for me but when I took it and it was working, it was great. Zembrin/CILTEP was crazy awesome for studying. After i stopped taking it and switched back to Artichoke I didn't have the drive to keep up with some of the courses I was taking and cut back to finishing one out of the four I started. Artichoke was better for socializing and mood though. Are you taking the stack unmodified? Any special brands of Forskolin or Artichoke?

No, I suppose disclosing all supplements would help others when giving reports like this but it often feels like a waste of time to mention some. Mine is by no means a pure account of ciltp+sunifiram:

-ALCAR 500g BID 1st in morning mixed with suni 2nd after lunch both = t+20min ALA 250mg
-Suni ~10mg TID (still experimenting with timings and dose since im just on the second week tomorrow)
(neeeeeed a scale but ive recently diverted from my old ways of life by moving in with religious father. If caught with a . scale they would assume it is for controlled substances. That said, I highly suggest using .001 accurate scale for Suni)
-Ginkgo extract 60mg BID
-CILTP: 500mg artichoke from Source Naturals and dont remember what brand of coleus extract. 0.5 cap 125mg 20%
^^^taken upon waking^^^
-caffiene:since starting the Sunifiram has reduced to 2-3 cups black tea per day with occasional single espresso in morning
-Omega3: Recently i've been experimenting with slightly higher doses (~4-5g).
-one LEF 2-a-day mult
just ran out of shwagh and bacopa

Huperzine.. i used to have great success from occasional hupA when i was purely CILTP but it may be overload with suni + ALC

soo about your experiences with the crashing. How long did you try it? I have experienced nothing of the sort but since I'd read of people's ' ∩ ' shaped effects I make sure to dose TID early. noonish. and before 3:15. Im also intrigued by the slowly consumed mixed sunifiram drink however it sounds like more effort.

edit: since im in desperately low on CILTP Id love some suggestions or pereferences to try out other brands.

Edited by Suirsuss, 22 May 2013 - 01:04 AM.

[chung_pao]

Abelard, do you have any advice for sensitizing to this stack? How do you cycle it?
After continuous use I felt my number of productive hours became less and less, due to fatigue.
As with any regimen, the recovery seems to be an important part of this aswell.

[azenor33]

Hi,

I just received some artichoke and L-DOPA (I know it's bad but just to try once in a while) from smartpowders, still waiting on the rest of the stack.

I was wondering, CILTEP + Phenylpiracetam seems to do wonders.
But I bought some Choline bitrate + Inositol (250+250 mg) from NOW.
Since Phenyl has to be taken with a lot of choline, is the presence of inositol going to be a probleme, with or without the CILTEP ?
(High dosage of choline means high dosage of inositol).

Thanks.

Edited by azenor33, 23 May 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[chung_pao]

Hi,

I just received some artichoke and L-DOPA (I know it's bad but just to try once in a while) from smartpowders, still waiting on the rest of the stack.

I was wondering, CILTEP + Phenylpiracetam seems to do wonders.
But I bought some Choline bitrate + Inositol (250+250 mg) from NOW.
Since Phenyl has to be taken with a lot of choline, is the presence of inositol going to be a probleme, with or without the CILTEP ?
(High dosage of choline means high dosage of inositol).

Thanks.

It hasn't for me. When I'm out of alpha-gpc, cdp-choline or not eating eggs, I use cheap Choline bitartrate + Inositol pills. (400 + 400 mg)
It works almost just as well as the expensive kinds.
Any choline source will suffice for ACh-synthesis. The other versions just have a few other tasty benefits on top of it.

However, before megadosing on inositol, do your own research. I'm speaking from anecdotal conclusions.

Edited by chung_pao, 23 May 2013 - 07:05 PM.

[karoshi]

Hi,

I just received some artichoke and L-DOPA (I know it's bad but just to try once in a while) from smartpowders, still waiting on the rest of the stack.

I was wondering, CILTEP + Phenylpiracetam seems to do wonders.
But I bought some Choline bitrate + Inositol (250+250 mg) from NOW.
Since Phenyl has to be taken with a lot of choline, is the presence of inositol going to be a probleme, with or without the CILTEP ?
(High dosage of choline means high dosage of inositol).

Thanks.

I think it's safe. Inositol is water soulble vitamin like substance. Many foods contains Inositol.
Some of foods contains it over 100mg/100g such as orange, wheat.
Inositol is also used as ragout of various drugs.
As long as you take same amount of inositol and choline, it's no problem.

[xsiv1]

Abelard, do you have any advice for sensitizing to this stack? How do you cycle it?
After continuous use I felt my number of productive hours became less and less, due to fatigue.
As with any regimen, the recovery seems to be an important part of this aswell.

Have you considered your choline intake levels as a reason for fatigue or dopamine receptor down-regulation. How long have you been using the stack in all its variations? Any breaks? I've had success in simply taking weekends off and switching to a different stack for 2-3 days.

[azenor33]

Thanks,

I just received the rest of the stack from smartpowders but they send me forskolin powder instead of caps :(

Do you guys know a way for me weight ~25mg of the forskolin powder ?

I don't have a special scoop or balance.

[xsiv1]

Thanks,

I just received the rest of the stack from smartpowders but they send me forskolin powder instead of caps :(

Do you guys know a way for me weight ~25mg of the forskolin powder ?

I don't have a special scoop or balance.

Firstly, you'll need to know what the potency of the extract is and then you'll obviously need to buy a digital scale measuring to 0.001 ideally. They're relatively inexpensive, small and available in both ebay and Amazon. You'll never be able to guesstimate an accurate dosage.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk 2

[usernameiuse]

Abelard, do you have any advice for sensitizing to this stack? How do you cycle it?
After continuous use I felt my number of productive hours became less and less, due to fatigue.
As with any regimen, the recovery seems to be an important part of this aswell.

I too am curious about this. I am also curious about using other things in place of the caffeine. I've heard daily caffeine use is bad for you. Could I use a powerful b-complex as my stimulant instead, or does it have to be an actual drug?

[Perception-Is-Reality]

I'm interested in trying this stack, especially for when school starts back and i combine it with adderall/every other stim i can buy. How does this sound as far as brands/dosages/prices: forskholii 20% forskonlin 30 grams for $11.99, i plan on taking 100 mg of total extract or 20 mg forskonlin a day. Now foods artichoke extract 90/450mg pills $10.72 and i plan on taking 2 every morning at the same time as the forskonlin. If this stack works for meid love to see the synergy with salbutamine (a stimulant that upregulates dopamine receptors).

[abelard lindsay]

So I took some time off Zembrin/CILTEP and went from keeping up with 4 Coursera courses to only finishing one. I was basically spending all my free time studying while on it . I was also getting the sleepies really bad at about 2pm everyday and had to take NALT to stay awake.

Lately I started back up with 25 mg Zembrin + 450 mg Artichoke Extract + ~5 mg Forskolin + 1500mg L-Phenylalanine again. I started taking NADH (Source Naturals 20mg) as my latest anti-hair loss experiment because I thought it would help with DHT breakdown, as it's a co-factor that is required by 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase to convert DHT to 3α-androstanediol. I think this Zembrin/CILTEP+NADH combo has kept me from getting too sleepy in the afternoon.

Apparently, NADH has a lot of dopaminergic effects. There is also plenty of research around using it to help treat Parkinsons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10767056

Effects of NADH on dopamine release in rat striatum.
Pearl SM, Antion MD, Stanwood GD, Jaumotte JD, Kapatos G, Zigmond MJ.
Source
Departments of Neurology and Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213, USA.
Abstract
Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NADH) may be utilized for the synthesis and regeneration of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH(4)), which in turn is an essential cofactor for tyrosine hydroxylase, the rate-limiting enzyme in the synthesis of dopamine (DA). NADH has been reported to relieve some of the symptoms of Parkinson's disease, presumably by altering dopaminergic function. The present study examines the efficacy of NADH in influencing DA activity in the rat striatum. In striatal slices, NADH (350 microM) significantly increased basal DA and DOPAC efflux and caused a 2-fold increase in the DA overflow evoked by high KCl (25 mM). Tissue levels of BH(4), basal BH(4) efflux, and KCl-evoked BH(4) overflow were unaffected by NADH, as was [(3)H]DA uptake into striatal synaptosomes. In contrast to the effects of NADH on DA function in vitro, no effects were observed when NADH was administered systemically. NADH (10 or 100 mg/kg, s.c.) did not influence the tissue content of DA, 5-HT, or their metabolites in the midbrain or striatum, nor did it alter DA extracellular concentrations. These results indicate that NADH can increase DA release from striatal slices, although we are as yet unable to detect this effect in vivo.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 06 June 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[penisbreath]

just a couple of questions:

chung_pao compared zembra (with it's sri effects) to prozac .. is it just as numbing as ssri's, or not quite as bad?

has anyone noticed an increase in stereotypy/compulsive behavior on the zembra/forskylin + stim stack ... wondering if it would be a bad idea for OCD? i have bad anxiety issues plus ADD and anergic/demotivated depression, but can't tolerate conventional anti-depressants or stimulants at all (tried pretty much everything)

Edited by lucky.pierre, 06 June 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[chung_pao]

Lucky.pierre: The potent serotonergic effect of Zembrin lasted about 2h for me. After it wore off, the "ciltep-effect" of the combination was incredible.
I can't say that everyone will experience the serotonergic effect the same way, but for me it was similar to prozac in effect. However, the serotonergic feel lasted only 1-2 hours while the PDE-4 inhibition persisted.

Abelard!
You just got quoted (verbally!) on my favourite blog: The Four Hour Workweek.

(56:20)
http://www.fourhourw...taint-and-more/

Edited by chung_pao, 06 June 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[MasterHerb]

So has anyone tried armodafinil+zembrin.....I am going to give it a go tomorrow morning. Also, chung do you have any side effects with modafinil+zembrin? If so what?

[abelard lindsay]

Abelard!
You just got quoted (verbally!) on my favourite blog: The Four Hour Workweek.

(56:20)
http://www.fourhourw...taint-and-more/

Nice find!

Edited by abelard lindsay, 06 June 2013 - 11:01 PM.

[penisbreath]

Lucky.pierre: The potent serotonergic effect of Zembrin lasted about 2h for me. After it wore off, the "ciltep-effect" of the combination was incredible.
I can't say that everyone will experience the serotonergic effect the same way, but for me it was similar to prozac in effect. However, the serotonergic feel lasted only 1-2 hours while the PDE-4 inhibition persisted.

Abelard!
You just got quoted (verbally!) on my favourite blog: The Four Hour Workweek.

(56:20)
http://www.fourhourw...taint-and-more/

thanks. serotonergic effects are something i need to help depression/ocd, but they tend to make my ADD/amotivation worse ..

[chung_pao]

thanks. serotonergic effects are something i need to help depression/ocd, but they tend to make my ADD/amotivation worse ..

When there are too many symptoms (depression, ocd, ADD, amotivation), the solution is usually the simplest: You need to improve the performance of your brain & body, alltogether.
That means: Exercise, diet, social and work environment, checking hormone levels and possibly something for additional nerve growth/brain restoration (like fish oil, carnitine, uridine, creatine). I've experienced the same symptoms. For me, the actual cause was just malnutrition.
Just a thought

Nice find!

Especially cool that he basically called all the other prescription stuff weak in comparison.
Someone should monetize the ciltep stack

Edited by chung_pao, 07 June 2013 - 04:33 PM.

[MasterHerb]

Ok so I took armodafinil+zembrin this morning at 6AM and still feeling great! Great idea chung!

[chung_pao]

Abelard, have you found NADH to be consistent in its stimulating (dopaminergic) effects?
There are a lot of positive reviews of it all over the net.
For me, modified b-vitamins have been inconsistent in their effects, with a quick onset of tolerance. (sulbutiamine, picamilon, pyritinol)
However, activated metabolites of b-vitamins have produced good and consistent effects. (p5p, methylfolate, methylcobalamin)

I've also been looking for something to boost Tetrahydrobiopterin (used in dopamine-synthesis), which appears to be an effect of NADH supps.
If the effects of NADH supplementation are consistent, it might make a great addition to the ciltep-stack.
"Phenylalanine + p5p (/activated b-vitamin) + nadh + forskolin + artichoke + zembrin + caffeine"? The biochemical math behind that equation sounds really exciting.

Edited by chung_pao, 07 June 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Perception-Is-Reality]

I've found NADH to be very stimulating. As far as side effects it seems to hit increased thirst/food hard (20 mg nadh does a lot more than 600 mg caffeine given i havnt taken either recently). To me it feels like it hits dopamine a lot more then noepinephrine. It effects me more physically then mentally (enormous libido increase) great motivation to do things decent for focus sitting down.

[Neal Cullum]

If you buy a kanna extract, how would you figure out how much to take compared to 25mg zembrin?

[peakplasma]

If you buy a kanna extract, how would you figure out how much to take compared to 25mg zembrin?

It's going to depend on the extract - for me it was about 4:1 ratio - BUT the common Kanna extract has slightly different effects (more stimulating) than Zembrin.

[Neal Cullum]

If you buy a kanna extract, how would you figure out how much to take compared to 25mg zembrin?

It's going to depend on the extract - for me it was about 4:1 ratio - BUT the common Kanna extract has slightly different effects (more stimulating) than Zembrin.

Thanks, well i've bought the forskolin, artichoke first and see how i get on with this and i'll report my experiences to this post.

[abelard lindsay]

I updated the first post with some recent observations by thread participants. Specifically, our good results with Phenylpiracetam, NADH, Piracetam and P5P in combination with the stack and some negative and/or mixed results with Sunifiram, and Aniracetam in combination with the stack.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 14 June 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Strangelove]

Thanks for this great stack abelard, I was really surprised with the effects! In good days my concentration in reading has gone up quite a bit and I find a wide area of non fiction material really enjoyable to read in an "emotional" dopamine stimulating kind of way, before it would be a somewhat cognitive "blunt" kind of pleasure (if that makes any kind of sense) from making new connections in areas of interest. It is weird that there are days that instead of a stimulating effect, I am getting quite sleepy. Have anyone else having similar experience? In my case it seems this happen with the 5mg forskolin dose. Some days ago I got close to 10mg and I am having good results every single time! I am looking in the choline, uridine, dha stack also, and I was wondering if there are any experiences with the arguably two best brain stacks on imminst combined?

[Neal Cullum]

I got a question. I have some Forskholli Root capsules of 250mg each. One capsule contains 50mg of active Forsskolin. Would that mean that to get 5mg of Forskolin i would have to divide a capsule by a 10th? Apology's if the answer is simple but i want to make sure i'm get the right measurements.

[Suirsuss]

I got a question. I have some Forskholli Root capsules of 250mg each. One capsule contains 50mg of active Forsskolin. Would that mean that to get 5mg of Forskolin i would have to divide a capsule by a 10th? Apology's if the answer is simple but i want to make sure i'm get the right measurements.

if what you say is true then yes.... thats a pretty massive dose for one cap some people must need to lose weight with the quickness.

Edited by Suirsuss, 15 June 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Suirsuss]

I updated the first post with some recent observations by thread participants. Specifically, our good results with Phenylpiracetam, NADH, Piracetam and P5P in combination with the stack and some negative and/or mixed results with Sunifiram, and Aniracetam in combination with the stack.

props to abelard for name dropped by marketing genius T.Ferris