2626 replies to this topic

[chung_pao]

In my attempt to maximize the potential of the following pathway:
Dopamine agomism (D1/D5 receptors) -> Adenylyl cyclase-activation -> cAMP-synthesis -> PKA activation....
I decided to drop the forskolin, since I'm trying to minimize release-agents.
(behaviorally, they make me very repetitive, instead of questioning my behaviors I tend to just keep going)
Instead I'm using Zembrin and Deprenyl, for the MAO-B and PDE-4 inhibition.
For further potentiation Artichoke and Xanthines can be added.

Awesome effects so far. I definitely feel a strong potentiation of learning and motivation, instead of just unfounded motivation and confidence.
Even if release-agents make me pretty euphoric, they don't necessarily encourage me to take productive and progressive action.
Removing forskolin and focusing on potentiation of what's already motivating and interesting, I find my behavior is much healthier while on the stack.
Instead of just being busy and excited (irregardless of the task), I'm focusing on doing the right things.

Also, props once more to Abelard for showing the nootropic potential of this biochemical pathway.

Edited by chung_pao, 16 June 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Q did it!]

I have recently been looking for a bulk source of Zembrin and the best I have found is http://www.organicro...celetium-Powder . In the description it mentions Zembrin but the label does not state just below the picture of the "red tea" Zembrin® as it does on the 60 cap 25mg Zembrin bottles. From what I can tell they are both Zembrin. I may just shoot a message to the company to check.

Edit: They are not the same sadly

Here is the message I received from the company

THE SCELETIUM POWDER IS THE PURE POWDER MADE FROM THE WHOLE CACTUS PLANT
THE ZEMBRIN SCLETIUM EXTRACT 25MG X 60 IS THE PURE EXTRACT FROM THE YELLOW FLOWER OF THE CACTUS THIS IS THE HIGHEST POTENT IT IS IN THE FLOWER

Edited by Q did it!, 17 June 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[xsiv1]

Eeek. Deprenyl. Blessing for some, curse for others. On another note, my purchase of Swanson's Peak ATP, in conjunction with the original CILTEP stack does, in fact, work. At least for me. It's my choice for the 2pm ish fatigue over NALT, which I had been using simply because I don't get irritable by the time I workout around 4:30pm. Too much of any dopamine or norepinephrine affecting supplement will do that to me and that's all I need during my commute home lol. I will revisit the afternoon NALT again one day though since it worked well. The PEAK ATP product had a more pronounced effect for me during training than it did mentally I might add. For this reason, I'll be trying some NADH and staggering it on alternating weeks with sulbutiamine or something else. Sulbutiamine effects, for me, subside within days but I've never gone over 200mgs per doses because it felt right. Seriously Abelard, I'd be in the works of sourcing the materials for said CILTEP stacks (and their variations), and offering it to the Market so to speak... At the very least, intriguing it to a company. The idea will be stolen eventually which is unfortunate in one way but fine in another because you thought of a cheap stack of readily available supplements, refined it, and shared it with what could likely be thousands of people. I bet Jarrow is still trying to figure out why they're sales of artichoke extract tripled in the last year lol. Props to you man and thanks. I've enjoyed is original formulation for some time now. :D

[Perception-Is-Reality]

will Jarrow Artichoke extract with 5% total caffeoylquinic acids work as well as the now foods brand of artichoke extract 5% Cynarin?

[Q did it!]

will Jarrow Artichoke extract with 5% total caffeoylquinic acids work as well as the now foods brand of artichoke extract 5% Cynarin?

Jarrow
Artichoke 500mg Extract is standardized to contain 5% total caffeoylquinic acids.

Now
Artichoke 450mg Extract is standardized to contain 5% total caffeoylquinic acids as Cynarin.


Jarrow is cheaper per pill if you get it at SP and it does contain 50mg more than the Now brand.

Edited by Q did it!, 19 June 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[xsiv1]

Anyone know how to edit an actual post? I was on my phone typing my last response and some of the words that Swiftkey came up with were, well, weird. At least it's somewhat understandable.

[Q did it!]

Anyone know how to edit an actual post? I was on my phone typing my last response and some of the words that Swiftkey came up with were, well, weird. At least it's somewhat understandable.

You have a limited window of time in where you can edit a post. After the window is closed the post is here to stay unless you contact a admin to change it for you. They will usually only alter/delete posts if there is something serious with it.

Edit: The edit option when available is in the bottom right corner of ones post by the quote buttons. Also if you are on a phone you may want to switch from mobile view to full/original view to see the edit/quote panel.

Edited by Q did it!, 19 June 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

Seriously Abelard, I'd be in the works of sourcing the materials for said CILTEP stacks (and their variations), and offering it to the Market so to speak... At the very least, intriguing it to a company. The idea will be stolen eventually which is unfortunate in one way but fine in another because you thought of a cheap stack of readily available supplements, refined it, and shared it with what could likely be thousands of people. I bet Jarrow is still trying to figure out why they're sales of artichoke extract tripled in the last year lol. Props to you man and thanks. I've enjoyed is original formulation for some time now. :D

I've been mulling this over for a while now. The way I look at it, CILTEP is a collaborative open source project. It's like Linux in a way and I guess that makes me a little bit like the Linus Torvalds of all this. . All I really care about is that people don't claim they invented it and they point back at the Longecity thread and credit me. Tim Ferris showed some real class in giving props back to me and the thread. I'm not worried about people "stealing" it. IMHO, there's too much great medical literature that sits around gathering digital dust on pubmed because nobody can figure out how to make a buck off of it. I enjoy taking that knowledge and using it to advance our knowledge. That, and the gratitude you all express is its own reward.

If someone wants to make a CILTEP like stack and sell it, go for it. Just don't try to claim exclusive intellectual property rights -- think open source. Also, you should give some credit back to me and the thread. For example, "based on the CILTEP stack discovered by Abelard Lindsay at the world famous Longecity.com" in your marketing material. Heck, I've got a few ideas about how I would market and sell a stack of my own at some point if nobody ever gets around to it. Remember, Red Hat made a lot of money off of selling Linux, even though it was free and open source.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 19 June 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[xsiv1]

Seriously Abelard, I'd be in the works of sourcing the materials for said CILTEP stacks (and their variations), and offering it to the Market so to speak... At the very least, intriguing it to a company. The idea will be stolen eventually which is unfortunate in one way but fine in another because you thought of a cheap stack of readily available supplements, refined it, and shared it with what could likely be thousands of people. I bet Jarrow is still trying to figure out why they're sales of artichoke extract tripled in the last year lol. Props to you man and thanks. I've enjoyed is original formulation for some time now. :D

I've been mulling this over for a while now. The way I look at it, CILTEP is a collaborative open source project. It's like Linux in a way and I guess that makes me a little bit like the Linus Torvalds of all this. . All I really care about is that people don't claim they invented it and they point back at the Longecity thread and credit me. Tim Ferris showed some real class in giving props back to me and the thread. I'm not worried about people "stealing" it. IMHO, there's too much great medical literature that sits around gathering digital dust on pubmed because nobody can figure out how to make a buck off of it. I enjoy taking that knowledge and using it to advance our knowledge. That, and the gratitude you all express is its own reward.

If someone wants to make a CILTEP like stack and sell it, go for it. Just don't try to claim exclusive intellectual property rights -- think open source. Also, you should give some credit back to me and the thread. For example, "based on the CILTEP stack discovered by Abelard Lindsay at the world famous Longecity.com" in your marketing material. Heck, I've got a few ideas about how I would market and sell a stack of my own at some point if nobody ever gets around to it. Remember, Red Hat made a lot of money off of selling Linux, even though it was free and open source.

This is sort of the impression I got from your responses throughout this thread and is one of the reasons I thought I'd just say my thanks. Unfortunately, someone will probably market it and not give mention or props. It's the nature of the supplement industry these days. The regimen works and although I've used it consistently for months, I took a break from it to try my hand at other stacks. On days where I decided to return to CILTEP, it worked like a charm..without the need to get that afternoon boost. On the rare occasion I get to take a short nap around noon on a weekend (I'm up early regardless of work days or weekends damn it), I'll often take the stack by 1pm and do work around the house or wash the cars or anything like that and it's quite remarkable for physical activities as well and the alertness and motivation I like to feel while starting things with a coffee. Ever since I've left it to weekend use, it's been great and I've never had an issue with sleep at this point - perhaps since I've used it for 3+months straight. It's definitely a nice stack to mix in to an overall cyclical nootropic regimen over the course of a year and is perhaps the most cost efficient bang-for-the buck. I'll be back to it for another 60-90 day run in the future..that I'm positive of.

Edited by xsiv1, 19 June 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[chung_pao]

One thing that I think haven't been discussed around here is the indirect nootropic effect of fat-loss and testosterone-boosting this stack has.
Forskolin already has remarkable studies behind it on boosting testosterone and increasing fat loss. Combining this with a PDE-inhibitor should multiply that.
PDE 3B also happens to be the cAMP-inhibiting enzyme present in fat tissue, which means it can increase lipolysis.
cAMP also mediates vasodilation in muscle tissue and makes for awesome workouts.

From Examine.com:
"The hypothesized mechanism of action is via increasing intra-testicular cAMP levels, which mimick the mechanisms of action of luteinizing hormone in the testicles.[52] LH normally increases cAMP itself, but circumventing LH to increase cAMP can increased steroidogenesis per se."
"Forskolin is able to increase activity of Adenylate Cyclase in skeletal muscle.[28] Through increasing cAMP, it has been speculated that Forskolin can increase muscle protein synthesis by activating PI3K and Akt, independent of the insulin receptor[29] and that this reaction is subject to desensitization."
"Forskolin is synergistic with methylxanthines, as methylxanthines have the ability to reduce adenosine's suppressive influence on elevated cAMP levels in adipocytes via acting as adenosine inhibitors.
"Lipolysis is stimulated by increased concentration of cAMP. Phosphodiesterases (PDEs) hydrolyze cAMP and limit stimulation of lipolysis. PDE3B is the major isoform of PDE in rat adipocytes and mediates the antilipolytic effect of insulin. The present study showed that insulin inhibited lipolysis by 42.4% compared to the basal lipolysis (p<0.002). The specific PDE3 inhibitor cilostamide completely reversed insulin antilipolysis, whereas the specific PDE4 inhibitor rolipram did not reduce insulin antilipolysis."

And just to emphasize, my interest in fat-loss & testosterone is is not because of vanity. It's because hormonal health and body fat are both extremely important factors in mental performance. I also think insulin should be kept at a minimum to utilize the full potential of this stack, as insulin inhibits cAMP.
Taking this stack 5 days a week, I can say I definitely notice benefits in body recomposition and mood as well as memory enhancement.
(switched back from deprenyl+pde-inhibitor to forskolin+pde-inhibitor. turned out deprenyl had a pretty dark side as well)

Edited by chung_pao, 20 June 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[lammas2]

The question is - are the low dosages used here high enough to provide these benefits?

Edited by lammas2, 20 June 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[xsiv1]

The question is - are the low dosages used here high enough to provide these benefits?

Most people take doses of forskolin that are too low to enhance lipolysis, and body composition according to the research on it - but I've noticed my muscles have retained most of their size despite carb depletion and rigorous exercise over the past year. It could have to do with the amounts of protein I try to get in each day but it's been shy of 1 gram per lb of lean body mass I think. I know I haven't put weight back on.

[chung_pao]

I think the effect will vary from person to person. In my case, there is a noticeable difference in my physique, taking this stack chronically.
And the amount of forskolin is really not up for debate. If I increase it, even by marginal amounts, I get a weird tension headache and it feels as if my PFC shuts down.
In other words, the theory behind these additional benefits is nice. But there's no real use debating it.
Just my thoughts.

I've been experimenting with Intermittent fasting lately, and noticed it's greatly facilitated. Almost effortless.
I was initially going to take CILTEP and then have breakfast, but after dosing I noticed that my bloodsugar was stable and I felt absolutely no need for it!
The science supports this, seeing as cAMP and PKA are key messengers in phosphorylation and activation of Glucagon, and thus stabilizing blood sugar.
The cAMP-dependent pathway is, needless to say, becoming all the more interesting!

[rikelme]

Abelard, thank you for this well put stack ! I've been using it for over a month now. And thank you for all the rest of you guys who have contributed to this thread !
I was looking for an advise from any of you guys. Here is my story.

At first, I was taking the following:
- 1 x 25mg forskolin in the morning (Super Forskolin - Coleus Forskolin Root Extract 125mg, 20% extract )
- 1 x 500mg Artichoke in the morning (Jarrow Formulas Artichoke Extract 180 x 500mg)
- 1 x 500mb L-Phenylalanine in the morning (Now Foods, L-Phenylalanine 120 x 500 mg)

The effects were noticeable right on the first day. 5x a week, off on weekends. As I was using the stack I kept reading the thread and realized that I was indeed getting tired over weekend as others have reported and decided to cut on the forksolin. In addition I saw that I was taking less Artichoke and L-Phenylalanine and decided to continue as follows:
- 1 x 8mg forskolin in the morning
- 1 x 500mg Artichoke in the morning + 1 x 500mg after lunch
- 2 x 500mg L-Phenylalanine in the morning

It seems that this stack doesn't work as well as the one I originally have been taking. In addition, I started to experience headaches, localized in the forehead.

I've tried to reduce L-Phenylalanine to 1x500mg, and it didn't help. Also, reducing the Artichoke to 1 x 500mg didn't help, I would get headaches each and every day. I should say that sometimes, once or twice per week I take 1g of piracetam with 500mg of Alcar during the day. That doesn't seem to reduce / increase the headaches in any way.

I really liked the benefits of my original stack minus the tiredness over the weekends. So, I'm not sure what should I do. Any advice?

Thanks !

Edited by rikelme, 21 June 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

I really liked the benefits of my original stack minus the tiredness over the weekends. So, I'm not sure what should I do. Any advice?

Thanks !

From what I've researched, it's pretty clear to me that the stack likely increases dopamine metabolism. This means that dopamine metabolism co-factors can be easily depleted. The engine runs faster, it uses more gas.

I keep the first post of the thread updated with the latest stack that I am taking on a regular basis. I've included all the co-factors that I've been taking (B-Vitamins, NALT, L-Phenylanine, and lately NADH). My stack differs significantly from yours. I take 1500mg L-Phenylalanine + co-factors in the morning for example along with NALT in the afternoon.

http://www.longecity...tp/#entry478486

I find that if I'm going to take a day or two off from the stack because of a vacation or not needing my brain, it's important to at least take L-Phenylalanine to maintain energy levels. I think this is required because there is some evidence that dopamine metabolism via tyrosine hydroxylase is temporarily upregulated by the stack, thus depleting dopamine precursors.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 21 June 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[rikelme]

Thanks Abelard for your prompt reply !
Yes I've seen your updated first post. For some reason I thought that you were spliting the Artichoke in two separate doses and also oversaw that you are using 1.5g of L-Phenylalanine.
So, basically, I should decrease forskolin even more and boost both L-Phenylalanine and Artichoke. For me caffeine is out of question, as I get addicted very easily to it and have very long and painful withdrawal period. Can you share what exact vitamin B complex are you using?

Thanks again.

[MasterHerb]

Abel are you only taking 450mg Artichoke with Zembrin?

[MasterHerb]

So Abel I took 1500mg Phenylalanine, 900mg of Artichoke, 3.85mg of Forskolin, 25mg of Zembrin,100mg of p5p, and had a mean headache this morning. I took Tylenol and I am feeling better, but what do you think was causing this? I think I might have to reduce the Phenylalanine dose because it must have elevated my blood pressure, which is already borderline high. I took the stack around 3.5 hours ago and I haven't noticed any improvement yet.

[abelard lindsay]

Abel are you only taking 450mg Artichoke with Zembrin?

I don't take Zembrin and Artichoke together. I got temporary mild tinnitus from that combo. Zembrin is a replacement for artichoke extract in the stack. If the stack gives you unacceptable side effects you shouldn't take it. There are also a certain percentage of people who are non-responders to the stack, you might be one of them.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 21 June 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[MasterHerb]

Abel are you only taking 450mg Artichoke with Zembrin?

I don't take Zembrin and Artichoke together. I got temporary mild tinnitus from that combo. Zembrin is a replacement for artichoke extract in the stack. If the stack gives you unacceptable side effects you shouldn't take it. There are also a certain percentage of people who are non-responders to the stack, you might be one of them.

Thank you for the quick reply. I will try it again tomorrow with just Zembrin and some caffeine this time. Do you think it will be a huge difference if I reduce the Phenylalanine to 500mg? I probably did not notice the effects of the stack because of the headache that I was having. I will do some Cambridge brain science games tomorrow to get a more objective assessment. I took some NALT in the afternoon and did not crash....so that is good news.

Edited by MasterHerb, 21 June 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Thank you for the quick reply. I will try it again tomorrow with just Zembrin and some caffeine this time. Do you think it will be a huge difference if I reduce the Phenylalanine to 500mg? I probably did not notice the effects of the stack because of the headache that I was having. I will do some Cambridge brain science games tomorrow to get a more objective assessment. I took some NALT in the afternoon and did not crash....so that is good news.

The reason I added L-Phenylalanine to the stack is it seems to help me with the sleepiness from dopamine pre-cursor depletion. From what I've observed, the PDE4 inhibitor (Zembrin or Artichoke) and Forskolin are necessary to get the stack's effect. The rest I just use as support for the metabolic processes triggered by the PDE4 inhibitor and Forskolin.

[Sholrak]

I want to start with this stack. Do you think artichoke plus forskoline will give a good idea of the effects? There is need to add things, more expensive, to experience long-term potentiation increasing?

[xsiv1]

I want to start with this stack. Do you think artichoke plus forskoline will give a good idea of the effects? There is need to add things, more expensive, to experience long-term potentiation increasing?

Surely you can start your course of Ciltep in this manner and adjust accordingly if needed. From Day 2, I've always added a dopamine precursor with my coffee and the rest of the stack with great success taking weekends off and using racetams instead. Now that I've used Ciltep for a while, in using it on weekends and ring a different stack during the first 4 days of the work week. I've found with dopamine precursors, one tends to build a slight tolerance to their effects. Having said that, I've never went beyond 500mgs or 350mgs (NALT) in the morning but down the road had to add some NALT at 2:30pm. Since then I've replaced the NALT in a varying manner with other compounds like sulbutiamine, ephedrine/caffeine, etc

Edited by xsiv1, 22 June 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[MasterHerb]

So I took 3.85mg of Forskolin and 25mg of Zembrin.....no crash even without NALT or noticeable changes. As I am on the heavy side I will try to double the dose of Forskolin and give it one more go with Zembrin before trying the Artichoke combo.

[blueinfinity]

In my attempt to maximize the potential of the following pathway:
Dopamine agomism (D1/D5 receptors) -> Adenylyl cyclase-activation -> cAMP-synthesis -> PKA activation....
I decided to drop the forskolin, since I'm trying to minimize release-agents.
(behaviorally, they make me very repetitive, instead of questioning my behaviors I tend to just keep going)
Instead I'm using Zembrin and Deprenyl, for the MAO-B and PDE-4 inhibition.
For further potentiation Artichoke and Xanthines can be added.

Awesome effects so far. I definitely feel a strong potentiation of learning and motivation, instead of just unfounded motivation and confidence.
Even if release-agents make me pretty euphoric, they don't necessarily encourage me to take productive and progressive action.
Removing forskolin and focusing on potentiation of what's already motivating and interesting, I find my behavior is much healthier while on the stack.
Instead of just being busy and excited (irregardless of the task), I'm focusing on doing the right things.

Also, props once more to Abelard for showing the nootropic potential of this biochemical pathway.

can you give a bit more details on the amounts you are taken, and how often, is this daily or only when you are cramming or got a heavy workload?

[blueinfinity]

It would be nice to also have a discussion on sources, and quality,

Maybe a list of "approved" with positive experiences and list of ones to stay away from from bad additives or side effects

I came across this looking for something pure as Ive heard GI issues with forskolin,

http://www.nutraplan...95-2-grams.html

I noticed on the OP "uncapped Better Body Sports 95% pure C-Bolic capsules" is there a difference between the white and the black bottles -this comes in 25 MG, but in op abelard mentions just 5mg, I wonder what taking the full capsule does, and whats the best way to weigh, is a digital scare required?

has anyone tried, and what are the recommended sources and personal experiences, including brands to stay away from when choosing to buy this stack, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I did a google search and it took me to every site and blog BUT this thread, funny some are giving credit to "some thread online" where others are not giving credit at all, but it would be nice to be able to come here and have a concise description as well as some general consensus advice on where to purchase the good stuff, of course with options as to not just promote one company or sound like you are selling something a list of approved and stay away from brands would be appreciated for all.

Edited by blueinfinity, 23 June 2013 - 02:27 AM.

[chung_pao]

Approved forskolin sources:
http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/24745
"uncapped Better Body Sports 95% pure C-Bolic capsules"
Smart powders Forskolin 20% (I use this. Works perfectly. Can be hard to measure though)

Has anyone else noticed increased light sensitivity from Zembrin?
It's supposed to be a selective PDE-4 inhibitor, and PDE-5 is reportedly the cGMP inhibiting enzyme in the eye, regulating phototransduction.
However, Zembrin really makes my vision much clearer and everything becomes more colorful and bright.
After taking a few days break from CILTeP, I noticed an almost fairy-tale like potentiation of color perception upon resuming forskolin + zembrin.

All product sources I use, which have generated the best nootropic I've experienced yet:
Iherb Zembrin:http://www.iherb.com/African-Red-Tea-Imports-Zembrin-Sceletium-Tortuosum-25-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/46069
Smartpowders Forskolin: http://www.smartpowd...olin-60cap.html
Jarrow Artichoke extract.
No precursors needed for me (I supplement whey protein+butter instead, for a more complete supplementation of neurotransmitter precurors, when not doing intermittent fasting)
I also "stack" ciltep with Yerba maté and Green tea as my only stimulants.

I recently made a premature recommendation of Deprenyl instead of forskolin in this stack. However, this produced extremely nasty side-effects after a few days. I don't recommend it. Stick with Zembrin and/or Artichoke, Forskolin, and a dopaminergic Stimulant (optional).

Edited by chung_pao, 23 June 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[blueinfinity]

Approved forskolin sources:
http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/24745
"uncapped Better Body Sports 95% pure C-Bolic capsules"
Smart powders Forskolin 20% (I use this. Works perfectly. Can be hard to measure though)

Has anyone else noticed increased light sensitivity from Zembrin?
It's supposed to be a selective PDE-4 inhibitor, and PDE-5 is reportedly the cGMP inhibiting enzyme in the eye, regulating phototransduction.
However, Zembrin really makes my vision much clearer and everything becomes more colorful and bright.
After taking a few days break from CILTeP, I noticed an almost fairy-tale like potentiation of color perception upon resuming forskolin + zembrin.

All product sources I use, which have generated the best nootropic I've experienced yet:
Iherb Zembrin:http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/46069
Smartpowders Forskolin: http://www.smartpowd...olin-60cap.html
Jarrow Artichoke extract.
No precursors needed for me (I supplement whey protein+butter instead, for a more complete supplementation of neurotransmitter precurors, when not doing intermittent fasting)
I also "stack" ciltep with Yerba maté and Green tea as my only stimulants.

I recently made a premature recommendation of Deprenyl instead of forskolin in this stack. However, this produced extremely nasty side-effects after a few days. I don't recommend it. Stick with Zembrin and/or Artichoke, Forskolin, and a dopaminergic Stimulant (optional).

To my understanding, Ive read that the Zembrin and the artichoke are interchangeable? or is it the zembrin and forskolin?

have you completely gone over to the zembrin stack? and was this due to GI issues with the forskolin that i hear of?

and is the only way to weigh the recommended amount by digital scale?

seems like 5mg of forskolin, 900mg of artichoke extract and 1500mg of phenylalanine make a good stack, are others also experiencing those dosages accurate?

Edited by blueinfinity, 23 June 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[MasterHerb]

So 7mg of forskolin and 25mg Zembrin and no effects at all.....not even a crash. I am using solray as my forskolin brand, and I am starting to think that this brand is not very potent. I will give it one last go with 10mg of forskolin and 25mg of Zembrin.

[norepinephrine]

I definitely had some of my strongest experiences from Solaray forskolin. Did you take it on an empty stomach with caffeine? That always seems to make a crucial difference for me.