2626 replies to this topic

[Sholrak]

Well, I have a HUGE study season fron now to one and half month. How should I start? Forskolin + artichoke/zembrin? I know Zembrin is more powerful than Artichoke but maybe it's too strong

I will be also taking some coffee, Rhodiola/Bacopa and Cerebrolysin during that time.

I will be cautious about Rhodiola dopaminergic/serotoninergic or Bacopa serotoninergic properties and the CILTEP.

I read some time ago (don't have the paper sorry) about Rhodiola and cAMP elevation. Could this be dangerous in conjunction with CILTEP, too much cAMP?


Also, you think there would be a problem with Cerebrolysin? I don't know but I would say it increases long-term potentiation too.

[abelard lindsay]

I think the STM issue could be because of ACHE transcription upregulation by forskolin (there's a reference to the study where this was observered earlier in the thread). That would also explain sleepiness as anti-cholinergics are sleep aids and generally negative for short term memory.

I take ALCAR on a regular basis. If I take it in the afternoon when taking CILTEP it seems the effects are stronger than usual. I'll have to look through the literature when I'm not replying from my smartphone, but my intuition from studying dopamine and serotonin metabolism is that higher neurotransmitter metabolic throughput is usually associated with enhanced cognitive function. Theoretically, when ACHE is upregulated it should be better able to process ACH at synaptic junctions, increasing reaction times and STM, assuming enough ACH is present. Chung Pao reported good results with ALCAR earlier. Have you tried taking the stack with ALCAR?

So I'm back with a deeper investigation of the AChE (acetylcholine esterase) /Forskolin/Sleepiness being reversed by ALCAR(Acetyl-L-Carnitine) theory. Here's the study that says Forskolin increases AChE:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16924422

...
. We investigated an alternative bioscavenger approach using forskolin, an inducer of intracellular cyclic AMP (cAMP), which activates AChE promoter and up-regulates its expression. A mouse neuronal cell line, Neuro 2A, was treated with various doses of forskolin and analysis of the expressed enzyme indicates that the AChE activity was significantly increased in cells exposed to repeated administration of the drug every other day for 7-10 days. Cholinesterase enzyme assays showed that the enzyme activity was increased approximately 2-fold for the extracellular enzyme and 3-fold for the intracellular enzyme. The optimal dose found for extracellular enzyme production was 12-24 microM forskolin, while the optimal dose for intracellular was 12 microM. In parallel with the rise in the AChE level, the morphology of forskolin-treated cells showed neurite growth with increasing doses.
...

AChE inhibitors have been widely studied, but AChE promoters have not been widely studied for their AChE promoting activity. Forskolin of course has a lot of papers, though mainly for its cAMP increasing effects.

Dexamethasone increases AChE transcription and ALCAR reversed that. So ALCAR may be effective because it might act in a similar way, reversing forskolin's increased AChE transmission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21986892

DM administration caused significant increase in serum AchE activity, MDA and NO levels accompanied with significant decrease in the antioxidant enzymes activity. Pretreatment with MEL or ALC prior DM has been found to reverse all the former parameters.

Here's another one that confirms that ALCAR lowers AChE levels;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23806723

Subchronic treatment with l-acetylcarnitine decreased AChE on SPM1 and SPM2 at the dose of 30mg×kg-1.

So given the above evidence, ALCAR may be one of the reasons that some people such as myself and Chung Pao are avoiding sleepiness with CILTEP. The biochemical reason hypothesized is that ALCAR reverses or prevents the AChE increase caused by Forskolin. Has anyone who's experienced excessive sleepiness tried ALCAR with the stack?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 29 July 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Sholrak]

Well, I have a HUGE study season fron now to one and half month. How should I start? Forskolin + artichoke/zembrin? I know Zembrin is more powerful than Artichoke but maybe it's too strong

I will be also taking some coffee, Rhodiola/Bacopa and Cerebrolysin during that time.

I will be cautious about Rhodiola dopaminergic/serotoninergic or Bacopa serotoninergic properties and the CILTEP.

I read some time ago (don't have the paper sorry) about Rhodiola and cAMP elevation. Could this be dangerous in conjunction with CILTEP, too much cAMP?


Also, you think there would be a problem with Cerebrolysin? I don't know but I would say it increases long-term potentiation too.

Up and add a question. Is important to take more supps in order to potentiate dopamine presence? Will this stack work worst whitout those dopamine precursors?

[xsiv1]

I think the STM issue could be because of ACHE transcription upregulation by forskolin (there's a reference to the study where this was observered earlier in the thread). That would also explain sleepiness as anti-cholinergics are sleep aids and generally negative for short term memory.

I take ALCAR on a regular basis. If I take it in the afternoon when taking CILTEP it seems the effects are stronger than usual. I'll have to look through the literature when I'm not replying from my smartphone, but my intuition from studying dopamine and serotonin metabolism is that higher neurotransmitter metabolic throughput is usually associated with enhanced cognitive function. Theoretically, when ACHE is upregulated it should be better able to process ACH at synaptic junctions, increasing reaction times and STM, assuming enough ACH is present. Chung Pao reported good results with ALCAR earlier. Have you tried taking the stack with ALCAR?

So I'm back with a deeper investigation of the AChE (acetylcholine esterase) /Forskolin/Sleepiness being reversed by ALCAR(Acetyl-L-Carnitine) theory. Here's the study that says Forskolin increases AChE:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16924422

...
. We investigated an alternative bioscavenger approach using forskolin, an inducer of intracellular cyclic AMP (cAMP), which activates AChE promoter and up-regulates its expression. A mouse neuronal cell line, Neuro 2A, was treated with various doses of forskolin and analysis of the expressed enzyme indicates that the AChE activity was significantly increased in cells exposed to repeated administration of the drug every other day for 7-10 days. Cholinesterase enzyme assays showed that the enzyme activity was increased approximately 2-fold for the extracellular enzyme and 3-fold for the intracellular enzyme. The optimal dose found for extracellular enzyme production was 12-24 microM forskolin, while the optimal dose for intracellular was 12 microM. In parallel with the rise in the AChE level, the morphology of forskolin-treated cells showed neurite growth with increasing doses.
...

AChE inhibitors have been widely studied, but AChE promoters have not been widely studied for their AChE promoting activity. Forskolin of course has a lot of papers, though mainly for its cAMP increasing effects.

Dexamethasone increases AChE transcription and ALCAR reversed that. So ALCAR may be effective because it might act in a similar way, reversing forskolin's increased AChE transmission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21986892

DM administration caused significant increase in serum AchE activity, MDA and NO levels accompanied with significant decrease in the antioxidant enzymes activity. Pretreatment with MEL or ALC prior DM has been found to reverse all the former parameters.

Here's another one that confirms that ALCAR lowers AChE levels;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23806723

Subchronic treatment with l-acetylcarnitine decreased AChE on SPM1 and SPM2 at the dose of 30mg×kg-1.

So given the above evidence, ALCAR may be one of the reasons that some people such as myself and Chung Pao are avoiding sleepiness with CILTEP. The biochemical reason hypothesized is that ALCAR reverses or prevents the AChE increase caused by Forskolin. Has anyone who's experienced excessive sleepiness tried ALCAR with the stack?

I have. With positive benefit during that afternoon slump time between, 2-2:30pm.

[stephen_b]

I must be somewhat sensitive to this stack. I've had to cut back from 5mg forskolin; it's just too much. I've read about adjusting the forskolin dose, but less about adjusting the artichoke/zembrin half.

I mentioned that I was going to try Stakich dendrobium extract. It seems to have exactly the same effect as forskolin, or at least I haven't been able to tell the difference so far. The suggested dose is 10-20 drops up to 3x daily. My CILTEP dose: 1 drop. Again, I seem to be somewhat sensitive to this stuff, and the results are obvious and repeatable.

[cylack]

When is it best to take ALCAR with the stack? At the same time or when you feel the sleepiness coming on?

[magta39]

And please tell us again what ALCAR dose you guys are using.....

[xsiv1]

I take Jarrow Formulas Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg right at before my typical afternoon slump. Eating lighter at lunch has helped a lot but I still can't avoid it entirely. I'm sure my caffeine intake (2 cups per day) doesn't help. I've been using B12 & 10mgs NADH with little success thus far so, on occasion, I'll opt for ALCAR @ 500mgs and more noticeable. On a few days I've combined all 3 with no discernible difference. I'm now pondering whether or not I should have purchased the sublingual NADH like my methylcobalamin is. FWIW, I alternate between using Zembrin and Artichoke Extract with NALT, 10mgs Forskolin and a coffee in the morning around 7am-ish. I don't use CILTEP 3 out of 7 days per week.

[Karwan Ibrahim]

Hi, I have been lurking around here a few months. My knowledge about brain chemistry i short and i ask for your opinion about this i found on PubMed.
I hate Forskolin can i exchange it for some other compound ?

J Cosmet Sci. 2002 Jul-Aug;53(4):209-18.
An in vitro, ex vivo, and in vivo demonstration of the lipolytic effect of slimming liposomes: An unexpected alpha(2)-adrenergic antagonism.

Tholon L, Neliat G, Chesne C, Saboureau D, Perrier E, Branka JE.

Source

Coletica, 32 rue Saint Jean de Dieu, 69007 Lyon, France.

Abstract

Most of the slimming products already developed for cosmetic applications did not result from strategies that integrate whole lipolysis-regulating mechanisms.
We thus focused our attention on a more complete integration of these mechanisms and we developed slimming liposomes (SLC) containing two micro-circulation activators, i.e., esculoside and Centella asiatica extracts, one phosphodiesterase inhibitor, i.e., caffeine, and one fatty acid-beta oxidation activator, i.e., L-carnitine.

The validity of our approach was assessed through (a) in vitro tests demonstrating that SLC induced a dramatic increase in the cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) content in human adipocytes, with a subsequent rise in the nonesterified fatty acids (NEFA) content of human adipocyte incubation medium, and (b) in vivo studies showing that SLC could provide an actual potent slimming effect on human volunteers.

Moreover, we give here, through binding experiments, the unambiguous demonstration that SLC is able to antagonize the alpha(2)-adrenergic receptor that is known to reduce intracellular AMPc content and, subsequently, to down-regulate lipolysis. This alpha(2)-adrenergic antagonism has never been reported for any component of SLC, and this work is the first demonstration of the alpha(2)-adrenergic antagonism of such a combination of active liposome compounds.

[TVO]

Just took 4 artichoke extract tablets (450mg each) and 2 forskolin extract (50mg total, yes I realize this is alot). No noticeable effects yet, I did score 1 point higher on the cambridge memory test, so thats something, will report more results tomorrow.

EDIT: I should mention I took Ginko and Panax Ginseng a few hours before the above, just keep that in mind.

Edited by TVO, 30 July 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[stephen_b]

Just took 4 artichoke extract tablets (450mg each) and 2 forskolin extract (50mg total, yes I realize this is alot).

Funny, I'm going in the opposite direction this morning. I took 1/20th of the above two ingredients.

[azenor33]

After a month of experimenting.

I've tried many different dosage of Artichoke, Quercetin, L-Phenylalanine, Forskolin, L-dopa and nothing.

I've also tried I tried many different dosage of Phenylpiracetam and choline and nothing except a headache.

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

Edited by azenor33, 30 July 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[xsiv1]

After a month of experimenting.

I've tried many different dosage of Artichoke, Quercetin, L-Phenylalanine, Forskolin, L-dopa and nothing.

I've also tried I tried many different dosage of Phenylpiracetam and choline and nothing except a headache.

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

Really?? Nothing? A cup of coffee does a lot more for you than Phenylpiracetam or CILTEP? lol. Good luck with Modafinil. You'll find it works well for keeping you awake..for a little while, but then it's effects diminish if you're not using it sporadically. I guess everyone is different.

[norepinephrine]

After a month of experimenting.

I've tried many different dosage of Artichoke, Quercetin, L-Phenylalanine, Forskolin, L-dopa and nothing.

I've also tried I tried many different dosage of Phenylpiracetam and choline and nothing except a headache.

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

Curious question: do you happen to use recreational drugs on any type of consistent basis?

[stephen_b]

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

What doses were you using?

[azenor33]

I take Codeine and Ketoprofen like once a month and ibuprofen and paracetamol at least once a week for my migraines and headaches.

I tried 500/1000/1500 Artichoke, 200/400/600 Quercetin, 0/500/1000/1500 L-Phenylalanine, 3/5/10/20/40 Forskolin, 100/200/300 Phenyl, 500/1000 Choline etc...

I have tried every dosage i could find on the internet after someone say they should try a different dosage.

I have some Sunifram but not tried yet.

Edited by azenor33, 30 July 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[TVO]

Gonna try to stack Oxiracetam with choline and CILTEP. Will post results of a memory test before and after in a couple of days.

[chung_pao]

Good post. Very coherent as usual.
Seeing as Forskolin causes AChE-induction, and ALCAR apparently counteracts that induction:
Do you suppose a different Acetylcholinesterase-inhibitor would be synergistic with the original CILTEP-stack?

I don't suggest taking any of these on a consistent basis. But for occasional use, do you think it'd be synergistic to take Huperzine A or Galantamine along with Forskolin and Artichoke Extract?
Would that also counteract the induction of AChE?

After a month of experimenting.

I've tried many different dosage of Artichoke, Quercetin, L-Phenylalanine, Forskolin, L-dopa and nothing.

I've also tried I tried many different dosage of Phenylpiracetam and choline and nothing except a headache.

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

I can't say if this applies to you, just trying to help:
The times I find CILTEP isn't working, it's because my CNS is either very inflamed, or not fully recovered.
What makes CILTEP work again is always proper nutrition and recovery. You are what you eat, and if you're not getting the right nutrients, your CNS won't be working properly and you won't be very susceptible to most nootropics.
If your CNS is working properly, the original stack of 1-3x500 mg Artichoke extract, Forskolin, and Caffeine should work.

Modafinil will almost always "work", though. Because it's a strong stimulant, it always feels good. But when taken consistently, it rarely does any good. For me, if taken consistently, it causes infertility and many other problems due to immune-system suppression.
What makes CILTEP so amazing is that it does the opposite, when taken consistently.

What I'd do if CILTEP wasn't working would be: 1. Remove all possible causes of dysfunction. 2. Get proper nutrition and recovery. 3. Try again with only the original stack. Nothing else. (unless you're need prescription meds ofc)

Edited by chung_pao, 30 July 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[cylack]

Any input on Baicalin? It's a component of skullcap that's supposed to help with memory. Al Sears, M.D. , one of those doctors that hawk newsletters, had sent me an email blast touting his new"Focus IQ" supplement. It contained things I've heard about like gotu kola, ALCAR, ginko, but I've never heard about Baicalin. He had some remarkable things to say about it, which I've pasted below. I'm wondering whether it's something that could be taken with this stack:


Baicalin – this “wort” superstar – is hiding within the perennial herb known as hoodwort. It will, if it hasn’t already, change the way we think about the “aging” mind.
It’s like any other superstar. Like Michael Jordan, Adele, Tom Brady, and Meryl Streep... it does what it does, and does it well.
And what Baicalin does is travel to the hippocampus (a power center of the limbic system in your brain involved in forming, storing and processing memory) and promotes…
THE GROWTH OF NEW BRAIN CELLS.
Baicalin helps rebuild and maintain brain cells in the hippocampus.* It super-charges cell production to help you replace your lost cells, and restores your “mental horsepower.”*
I’ve been using and studying Baicalin for quite some time now, but research is just starting to go public. So far, it’s confirmed my findings and revealed some exciting possibilities.
This past March, the Neural Regeneration Research Journal published a groundbreaking study on Baicalin from the Second Xiangya Hospital of Central South University in China.
In the study, they induced a “stressed model” in rats using corticosterone injections. This significantly decreased the number of brain cells in the hippocampus and altered the form of remaining brain cells—creating a stressed model perfect for testing Baicalin.¹
The rats received 50mg of Baicalin daily. It increased the number of brain cells in the hippocampus, and reversed the changes in “cell form.” ²What does that mean? It means that Baicalin helps rebuild and maintain brain cells in the hippocampus.*
Another new study published just last month, from the Kyung Hee University in Seoul, South Korea, examined whether it improves spatial cognitive impairments induced in rats.

They found that daily administration improved memory impairment, and significantly alleviated memory-associated decreases in the hippocampus. They suggested it may be useful as a therapeutic agent for the improvement of cognitive function.³
This natural superstar is the perfect support to give you your beautiful mind.
¹Jiang XH, et al., “Baicalin Influences the Dendritic Morphology of Newborn Neurons in the Hippocampus of Chronically Stressed Rats.” Neural Regen Res. 2013;8(6):496-505.
² Ibid. 2013;8(6):496-505.
³Lee B. et al, “Bacalin Improves…,” Acupuncture and Meridian Science Research Center, College of Oriental Medicine, Kyung Hee University, Seoul.

[xsiv1]

Any input on Baicalin? It's a component of skullcap that's supposed to help with memory. Al Sears, M.D. , one of those doctors that hawk newsletters, had sent me an email blast touting his new"Focus IQ" supplement. It contained things I've heard about like gotu kola, ALCAR, ginko, but I've never heard about Baicalin. He had some remarkable things to say about it, which I've pasted below. I'm wondering whether it's something that could be taken with this stack:


Baicalin – this “wort” superstar – is hiding within the perennial herb known as hoodwort. It will, if it hasn’t already, change the way we think about the “aging” mind.
It’s like any other superstar. Like Michael Jordan, Adele, Tom Brady, and Meryl Streep... it does what it does, and does it well.
And what Baicalin does is travel to the hippocampus (a power center of the limbic system in your brain involved in forming, storing and processing memory) and promotes…
THE GROWTH OF NEW BRAIN CELLS.
Baicalin helps rebuild and maintain brain cells in the hippocampus.* It super-charges cell production to help you replace your lost cells, and restores your “mental horsepower.”*
I’ve been using and studying Baicalin for quite some time now, but research is just starting to go public. So far, it’s confirmed my findings and revealed some exciting possibilities.
This past March, the Neural Regeneration Research Journal published a groundbreaking study on Baicalin from the Second Xiangya Hospital of Central South University in China.
In the study, they induced a “stressed model” in rats using corticosterone injections. This significantly decreased the number of brain cells in the hippocampus and altered the form of remaining brain cells—creating a stressed model perfect for testing Baicalin.¹
The rats received 50mg of Baicalin daily. It increased the number of brain cells in the hippocampus, and reversed the changes in “cell form.” ²What does that mean? It means that Baicalin helps rebuild and maintain brain cells in the hippocampus.*
Another new study published just last month, from the Kyung Hee University in Seoul, South Korea, examined whether it improves spatial cognitive impairments induced in rats.

They found that daily administration improved memory impairment, and significantly alleviated memory-associated decreases in the hippocampus. They suggested it may be useful as a therapeutic agent for the improvement of cognitive function.³
This natural superstar is the perfect support to give you your beautiful mind.
¹Jiang XH, et al., “Baicalin Influences the Dendritic Morphology of Newborn Neurons in the Hippocampus of Chronically Stressed Rats.” Neural Regen Res. 2013;8(6):496-505.
² Ibid. 2013;8(6):496-505.
³Lee B. et al, “Bacalin Improves…,” Acupuncture and Meridian Science Research Center, College of Oriental Medicine, Kyung Hee University, Seoul.

What a strange coincidence that you post this in the very thread I'm following mostly on this site. I had the opportunity to try 250mgs of Baicalin last night at around 8pm. I find it unusual that this research has come to this conclusion since Baicalin is used, most commonly, as a relaxant or anxiolytic - at least, from what I've been reading about it. After about an hour or less following ingestion, I found it to be a subtle relaxant. I 'could' have slept deeper last night but I can't state that it was Baicalin or not because I did get a lot of exercise yesterday, including sprints, jogs and some weights and then playing with the kids...but I ended up not hearing my wife wake me up the first time. It wasn't until after her shower that she called for me again. It's said to affect the Gaba pathway, but I'm not sure exactly what receptors. Nevertheless, I'm not sure if it's a Gaba agonist or mimetic, but it may downregulate Gaba receptors with consistent use. Again, many compounds affect the Gaba receptors with various degrees of affinity so it could be some time before it downregulates them. It's just something I'd be cautious about when using it consistently. Like other compounds that affect Gaba pathways, there are some associated withdrawal symptoms upon cessation after long-term use. Interesting research though. Do you have the actual link that was posted above?

[xsiv1]

I wouldn't know when you'd incorporate Baicalin into the stack as, in my experience, it's best reserved for PM use. When I get a chance, I'll read into the studies to see what doses were being used. I've read that typically humans consume 250-500mgs for an anxiolytic/relaxant effect. Perhaps smaller doses do something different not unlike Picamilon. In higher doses, Pica can act as a stimulant most likely because of the Niacin.

[chris106]

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

Moda is the only thing that has really helped me thus far. Still I second what others said, be carefull with the stuff and most of all, do not take it too late in the afternoon or even in the evening - your sleep cycle will get so badly fucked it will take several days to recover! It's not a drug to stay up all night but stay awake and alert during the day

That being said - I found L-Theanine and Ashwagandha to help counter balance side effects and keep tolerance at bay for a few days.
2nd gen Antihistamine might help as well.

Please report back if Moda works for you.

Also: I keep forgetting whom I've allready asked this - but did you rule out a sleep-dysfunction? I for one have severe sleep apnea which probably is solely responsible for all my cognitive problems. I only recently found this out after years of bad diagnosis - it's often overlooked!

Edited by chris106, 01 August 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[uekte]

I'm quite disappointed, more than 100 bucks for nothing. A little cup of coffee does a lot more for me.

I'll try modafinil.

Moda is the only thing that has really helped me thus far. Still I second what others said, be carefull with the stuff and most of all, do not take it too late in the afternoon or even in the evening - your sleep cycle will get so badly fucked it will take several days to recover! It's not a drug to stay up all night but stay awake and alert during the day

That being said - I found L-Theanine and Ashwagandha to help counter balance side effects and keep tolerance at bay for a few days.
2nd gen Antihistamine might help as well.

Please report back if Moda works for you.

Also: I keep forgetting whom I've allready asked this - but did you rule out a sleep-dysfunction? I for one have severe sleep apnea which probably is solely responsible for all my cognitive problems. I only recently found this out after years of bad diagnosis - it's often overlooked!

I keep seeing Modafinil written off as nothing more than a wakefulness promoting agent, one with potentially harmful side effects at that.

Whilst I appreciate that Modafinil is prescribed predominately to people suffering with narcolepsy and other sleep disorders, in my personal experience its benefits go way beyond simply keeping me awake.

I've been using Modafinil (between 50mg and 200mg a day) for over a year now (with extended breaks).

I notice acute mood enhancement each and every time I dose Modafinil. I don't suffer from depression or any mood disorders, however Modafinil definitely provides a tangible boost. I find myself smiling and laughing a great deal more when i've taken a morning dose of Modafinil, i've even been known to break into song on occasion.

It also provides a focus and determination to achieve what needs to be achieved that, for me, no other nootropic substance has come close to providing.

By the fourth of fifth consecutive day on Modafinil, the effects will start to lessen. But in my experience, a break of 48 hours or more is enough to virtually eliminate any developed tolerance.

I've never had any problem with cessation, just this week I returned from a two week holiday where I took no nootropics whatsoever, with no noticeable withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Nor does Modafinil appear to interfere with my getting to sleep in the evening. In fact, I would go so far as to say that after using my typical dose of Modafinil (100mg), I fall into bed absolutely exhausted after an exceptionally busy and productive day.

Like any other nootropic, some will respond whilst others will not. My concern is that people will be turned away from a drug that has the potential to be a life changer (it was for me) based on others dismissal and derision.

[norepinephrine]

I think the effects of modafinil are highly individual, and as such, not as easily predicted as more traditional prescription stimulants.

For instance, I have no doubts concerning the benefits someone like Dave Asprey gets from the substance. At the same time, in my own experience (at dosages from 50-300mg.) I can't really discern much cognitive benefit outside of what I'd incur from caffeine after reducing tolerance, though with the implication that modafinil has a far-longer half-life. As well, I've suffered lapses in creativity and the ability to generate novel solutions under higher dosages, whereas lower ones seem to cause more volatility in energy level.

I think where modafinil shines is in its endurance and general lack of side effects outside of side effects for most people. As well, the lucky ones who obtain a readily apparent cognitive boost are, of course, also benefactors.

[xsiv1]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

[uekte]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

I've used Modafinil for 5 consecutive days many times, both with and without variations of CILTEP.

[xsiv1]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

I've used Modafinil for 5 consecutive days many times, both with and without variations of CILTEP.

Thanks. I'm assuming it was with positive results. I'm on holiday and was going to use some today which would have made it the 4th consecutive day, but decided I'd finally up my intake of Artichoke extract to 800mgs from my standard 400-500. I'm seemingly more alert than from my previous original stack. Tomorrow I'll have a long day driving and getting situated so might use Moda then. Thanks again. ^_^

[arjacent]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but does tolerance develop to this forskolin stack? Because to me it seems very similar to coffee and I would expect the positive results to diminish in a week or two. Ideally I would like to cycle this with adderall or modafinil too but would there be cross tolerance issues?

How long does forskolin and artichoke last? Like how often should it be dosed in a given day? And how fast does tolerance set in? What to do to slow it down?

[xsiv1]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but does tolerance develop to this forskolin stack? Because to me it seems very similar to coffee and I would expect the positive results to diminish in a week or two. Ideally I would like to cycle this with adderall or modafinil too but would there be cross tolerance issues?

How long does forskolin and artichoke last? Like how often should it be dosed in a given day? And how fast does tolerance set in? What to do to slow it down?

Your results may vary, but many people on here including myself have been using it successfully for 6+ months and many like Abelard even longer once per day every day. I started taking it months ago in its original formulation with a dopamine precursor and caffeine 5 days on, 2 days off. After 90 days, I switched to another stack I wanted to try but kept CILTEP 2 days per week on weekends. Now I'm back to 4-5 days per week. Today marks the first day I've used 800 mgs of artichoke extract instead of half that. Start with the original formation in my opinion, and make changes as you go as others have. Oh, and try to read the whole thread to see what directions others have already tried and what has worked for some once you decide (if needed) to mix things up. Many have found Zembrin to work better than Artichoke Extract. I for one, like them both and alternate days for those. The original CILTEP 'should' work for you nicely for at least 60-90 days or much longer, IF, you aren't getting any negative side effects and it is positively effecting you. The original formulation is cheap and worth every penny if it's working.

Edited by xsiv1, 02 August 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[SuperjackDid_]

Tineptine put me into happy sleep mode when i add it to this stack ,any interaction ?

Tinnitus and panic also attack me,but i found this stack make my writing better not sure about risk/benefit ratio .

Will give it more time for this stack so promising ,i already gaveup piracetam cause of massive depression setting in ,gluatamate receptor overexcite ,red is really red! or something about too stimulate to choline receptor ,dame i spend to much time for piracetam and not enjoy benefit of others nootropic much ,bad thing in this forum and many others.


I also take sent john wort ,hydergine ,caffeine ,tobacco additional to this stack .