2626 replies to this topic

[Vindex]

http://www.google.co...active&start=20

[machete234]

I entered this into the search allready

If you click the google links and search for "modafinil" on these pages you will not exactly be overwhelmed by information.

Edited by machete234, 07 December 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Godof Smallthings]

lostfalco reported that artichoke extract combined with LLLT works for him. A 48 LED lamp is inexpensive enough.

[Tumah]

So I've been taking the stack for about 2 weeks now.
I take 110 mg c-bolic forskolin
900 mg (2 capsule NOW foods) artichoke extract
800 mg (1 cap plus 300 mg) NOW foods ALCAR
500 L-phenylalinine
50 mg p5p
1000 methylcobalmin
750 Inositol
600 NAC
a heaping spoon of instant coffee with 200 mg l-theanine
2,000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate (at night)
And sometimes I throw in a gram or three of piracetam.

This is on an empty stomach a good 2 hours before breakfast

So far the most noticeable result is some tinnitus at night when I'm laying in bed. I'm hoping for something more positive.

It's possible that the problem is the artichoke. They arrived in the middle of the summer and the capsules were a little sticky as if from heat. But barring that is there anything else that I can try adjusting/removing/adding?

[abelard lindsay]

So I've been taking the stack for about 2 weeks now.
I take 110 mg c-bolic forskolin
900 mg (2 capsule NOW foods) artichoke extract
800 mg (1 cap plus 300 mg) NOW foods ALCAR
500 L-phenylalinine
50 mg p5p
1000 methylcobalmin
750 Inositol
600 NAC
a heaping spoon of instant coffee with 200 mg l-theanine
2,000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate (at night)
And sometimes I throw in a gram or three of piracetam.

This is on an empty stomach a good 2 hours before breakfast

So far the most noticeable result is some tinnitus at night when I'm laying in bed. I'm hoping for something more positive.

It's possible that the problem is the artichoke. They arrived in the middle of the summer and the capsules were a little sticky as if from heat. But barring that is there anything else that I can try adjusting/removing/adding?

So you've gotten no effect from Piracetam + Magnesium L-Threonate + Coffee and Theanine + CILTEP? The only thing I would recommend would be to take the NAC, Inositol and Magnesium L-Threonate at night and take the CILTEP components first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and wait at least 30 minutes before taking coffee and l-theanine.

I posted this recently over on Natural Stacks on the Racetams and CILTEP: http://blog.naturals...-complementary/

Edited by abelard lindsay, 10 December 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[magta39]

So I've been taking the stack for about 2 weeks now.
I take 110 mg c-bolic forskolin
900 mg (2 capsule NOW foods) artichoke extract
800 mg (1 cap plus 300 mg) NOW foods ALCAR
500 L-phenylalinine
50 mg p5p
1000 methylcobalmin
750 Inositol
600 NAC
a heaping spoon of instant coffee with 200 mg l-theanine
2,000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate (at night)
And sometimes I throw in a gram or three of piracetam.

This is on an empty stomach a good 2 hours before breakfast

So far the most noticeable result is some tinnitus at night when I'm laying in bed. I'm hoping for something more positive.

It's possible that the problem is the artichoke. They arrived in the middle of the summer and the capsules were a little sticky as if from heat. But barring that is there anything else that I can try adjusting/removing/adding?

So you've gotten no effect from Piracetam + Magnesium L-Threonate + Coffee and Theanine + CILTEP? The only thing I would recommend would be to take the NAC, Inositol and Magnesium L-Threonate at night and take the CILTEP components first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and wait at least 30 minutes before taking coffee and l-theanine.

I posted this recently over on Natural Stacks on the Racetams and CILTEP: http://blog.naturals...-complementary/

Try adding a high potency B complex to the morning CILTEP

[machete234]

Turns out I might have a source of phenylalanine at home without knowing: Spirulina which also contains many other things but when the forskolii comes trough I might try to stack that with spirulina.
That explains the mood lift from taking spirulina sometimes, could be the dopamine precursor.
The only question is how much of the amino acid is in spirulina.

[MercuryAX]

Where are people getting their ALCAR for this? I'm finding that naturalstacks CILTEP makes me feel sleepy, so perhaps more ALCAR could help? I also might need to try that tryptophan idea. I've been on the uridine stack for about a month, and on days I take CILTEP, it has caused depression the next day.

I'm also considering what another person said about calcium. Is it possible that a calcium deficiency would cause nootropics not to work properly? Every nootropic I take only works a few times at most, as if my body is super adaptable.

[Perception-Is-Reality]

I get my ALCAR from swanson and find it works great. As far a snext day depression i take 100-200mg of 5-htp before bed (also helps me sleep so win/win). I really doubt its a calcium deficiency, especially since you live in america, the american diet is high in calcium (and low in magnesium). Many nootropics i have tried only work a few times for one of the following reasons, 1. the placebo of a new nootropic wore off 2. My body adapted really quickly or has already adapted to something with a similar mechanism of action. CILTEP is one of the cheapest things i have found that actually works (defined as more awake/willing to learn) every time i take it (3 times a week)

[hypnotik]

I'm going to try this CILTEP stack. I just made an order and should have everything by Monday.

[cat@]

I'm going to try this CILTEP stack. I just made an order and should have everything by Monday.

Mother of god... this subject is too frigging long already.

Seriously, if you are going to buy the blasted stuff, we don't really give a crock.

But if you have something to say or questions to ask, please do.

[abelard lindsay]

Hey guys. I was just on Dave Asprey's podcast talking about CILTEP:

http://www.bulletpro...indsay-podcast/

FYI, I'm trying to evolve this like an open source project going commercial.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 13 December 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[lostfalco]

Hey guys. I was just on Dave Asprey's podcast talking about CILTEP:

http://www.bulletpro...indsay-podcast/

FYI, I'm trying to evolve this like an open source project going commercial.

Dude...Abelard! Just checked out the podcast. It's really cool to see you getting CILTEP out there. Great job again man.

[abelard lindsay]

Dude...Abelard! Just checked out the podcast. It's really cool to see you getting CILTEP out there. Great job again man.

So when are you going to come out with LostFalco's TULIP brain hacking kit and start promoting it on podcasts?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 14 December 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[lostfalco]

So when are you going to come out with LostFalco's TULIP brain hacking kit and start promoting it on podcasts?

Haha...one of these days. I'm not quite ready to come out of the closet just yet.

[abelard lindsay]

Interesting.. Ginger is a pde4d inhibitor. I tried about 2 grams of it with 3.85mg Forskolin today and I'm getting a swimmy effect from it. This is not particularly great from a cognitive enhancing standpoint. My cambridgebrainsciences scores were worse then baseline. Maybe a lower dose would have been more effective?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23962082

Am J Respir Cell Mol Biol. 2013 Aug 20. [Epub ahead of print]
Active Components of Ginger Potentiate ß-Agonist Induced Relaxation of Airway Smooth Muscle by Modulating Cytoskeletal Regulatory Proteins.

Townsend EA, Zhang Y, Xu C, Wakita R, Emala CW.

Source

Columbia University, Department of Anesthesiology, New York, New York, United States ; townsend.elizabeth@gmail.com.

Abstract


Rationale: β-agonists are the first-line therapy to alleviate asthma symptoms by acutely relaxing the airway. Purified components of ginger relax airway smooth muscle, but the mechanisms are unclear. By elucidating these mechanisms, we can explore the use of phytotherapeutics in combination with traditional asthma therapies. Objectives: To 1) determine if 6-gingerol, 8-gingerol, or 6-shogaol potentiate β-agonist-induced airway smooth muscle relaxation and 2) define the mechanism(s) of action responsible for this potentiation. Methods: Human airway smooth muscle was contracted in organ baths. Tissues were relaxed dose-dependently with β-agonist, isoproterenol in the presence of vehicle, 6-gingerol, 8-gingerol, or 6-shogaol (100 μM). Primary human airway smooth muscle cells were used for cellular experiments. Purified PDE4D or PLCβ enzyme was used to assess inhibitory activity of ginger components using fluorescent assays. A G-LISA assay was used to determine the effects of ginger constituents on RhoA activation. Main Results: Significant potentiation of isoproterenol-induced relaxation was observed with each of the ginger constituents. 6-shogaol showed the largest shift in isoproterenol EC50. 6-gingerol, 8-gingerol, or 6-shogaol significantly inhibited PDE4D, while 8-gingerol and 6-shogaol also inhibited PLCβ activity. 6-shogaol alone inhibited RhoA activation. In human airway smooth muscle cells, these constituents decreased phosphorylation of CPI-17 and 8-gingerol decreased myosin light chain phosphorylation. Conclusions: Isolated components of ginger potentiate β-agonist-induced relaxation in human airway smooth muscle. This potentiation involves PDE4Dinhibition and cytoskeletal regulatory proteins. Together with β-agonists, 6-gingerol, 8-gingerol, or 6-shogaol may augment existing asthma therapy resulting in relief of symptoms through complementary intracellular pathway

[chung_pao]

Interesting.. Ginger is a pde4d inhibitor. I tried about 2 grams of it with 3.85mg Forskolin today and I'm getting a swimmy effect from it. This is not particularly great from a cognitive enhancing standpoint. My cambridgebrainsciences scores were worse then baseline. Maybe a lower dose would have been more effective?

It's nice to see you experimenting with other PDE-4 inhibitors.
I think the best chance we have of improving this stack further, is to provide an alternative for artichoke.

[abelard lindsay]

I got interviewed again. I think I'm getting a bit over exposed .

http://www.thehacked...tural-extracts/

Minor correction, the "bad" serotonin receptor is 5ht-2b. Not 5ht-3c.

[Metagene]

I got interviewed again. I think I'm getting a bit over exposed .

http://www.thehacked...tural-extracts/

Minor correction, the "bad" serotonin receptor is 5ht-2b. Not 5ht-3c.

Not at all. I really enjoyed hearing you on the Smart Drugs Smarts podcast.

Edited by Metagene, 16 December 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[noos]

I got interviewed again. I think I'm getting a bit over exposed .

http://www.thehacked...tural-extracts/

Minor correction, the "bad" serotonin receptor is 5ht-2b. Not 5ht-3c.

Not at all. I really enjoyed hearing you on the Smart Drugs Smarts podcast.

He was also in
www.bulletproofexec.com/82-ciltep-revealed-with-abelard-lindsay

All very interesting and motivating.

I'm downloading the new one

[hypnotik]

I tried the CILTEP stack for the first time today upon awakening at 6:00 am.

-2x450mg Artichoke extract

-Forskolin from Nature's Plus. (standardized 20%[25 mg]forskolin). I didn't bother to measure a lesser amount because I was still sleepy and didn't feel like messing with the scale.

-500mg Phenylalanine

-B-Vitamin complex

-200mg caffeine

-800mg ALCAR

-4.6g Piracetam

An absolutely wonderful stack. I felt the energy roll in at about the 30 minute mark, with a slight euphoric feeling (possibly from the phenylalanine).

At this time, I still feel great. I think the peak was around the 4th or 5th hour, where I think maybe 200mg caffeine was a bit much. Me thinks that I'd do fine with 100mg (I always take 200mg daily). Then again, it could be the Forskolin because I took all the components before the Forskolin arrived and I felt nothing remotely like I did today.

I was most definitely motivated to do "stuff" today, anything, really, from laundry to grocery shopping, exercising (this session was more intense by about 50%) and an insatiable appetite for sex (wifey helped me out with that).

I worked from home today(IT job), and I felt very sharp. Things came quickly to me, and problem solving was quicker than normal. I was more efficient, as well. I'll be doing some studying tonight, so it'll be interesting to see how my retention will play out. I can't speak for any creativity issues like some posters mentioned, though. No mood swings whatsoever.

Sometimes I'll get the 1pm slump, but using my light therapy lamp, I was amped up 20 minutes later. I had no problems with blood pressure or heart rate (if that's a concern, but I should check just in case). As stated above, I'm still feeling great. I just hope it won't last too long and affect my sleep.

My wife was also excited about this stack, but I tweaked hers just a little by adding theanine to her mix. I asked her how she felt at about noon, and she said she didn't feel much of anything. Perhaps she's a non-responder, or maybe the theanine muted the effects; not sure, but I'll have her try again tomorrow morning. If this doesn't work, I think I'll go ahead and buy her Abelard's Natural Stack formula to see if a lesser amount of Forskolin would be ideal. I'll also report back when I try this again tomorrow, but this time I'll actually be in the office.

I'll stay on this stack unchanged, but I'm planning on adding selegiline since that's something I take often and would like to see my reaction.

Thanks to Abelard for starting this thread

Edited by hypnotik, 18 December 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[miketunes]

So I've been on this about a month and really haven't noticed any effect. I've been taking first thing in the am with an empty stomach. Well I do get more alertness from the caffeine, as I don't usually drink coffee or anything (200mg was too much). Should I try increasing Zembrin? Maybe order the artichoke instead of the Zembrin (though the podcast seemed to indicate I should get a much stronger reaction from Zembrin vs artichoke)? I may start going to cambridgesbrainscience to get a more accurate measure, lots of tests though - any in particular I should stick too to see if this is having any effect? Here's what I'm taking:

25mg Zembrin (African Red Tea Imports - Sceletium Tortuosum)
4mg Forskolin(Better Body Sports divided 6 ways)
500mg L-Phenylalanine (Now foods)
Super B Complex (Nature Made - 2mg B6, 15mcg B12, ect.)
100mg Caffeine (Prolab Nutrition)
500mg ALCAR (New Your Vitamins)

[abelard lindsay]

So I've been on this about a month and really haven't noticed any effect. I've been taking first thing in the am with an empty stomach. Well I do get more alertness from the caffeine, as I don't usually drink coffee or anything (200mg was too much). Should I try increasing Zembrin? Maybe order the artichoke instead of the Zembrin (though the podcast seemed to indicate I should get a much stronger reaction from Zembrin vs artichoke)? I may start going to cambridgesbrainscience to get a more accurate measure, lots of tests though - any in particular I should stick too to see if this is having any effect? Here's what I'm taking:

25mg Zembrin (African Red Tea Imports - Sceletium Tortuosum)
4mg Forskolin(Better Body Sports divided 6 ways)
500mg L-Phenylalanine (Now foods)
Super B Complex (Nature Made - 2mg B6, 15mcg B12, ect.)
100mg Caffeine (Prolab Nutrition)
500mg ALCAR (New Your Vitamins)

I would wait a while before taking caffeine. There's some evidence that it interferes with forskolin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2172772

Caffeine potently inhibited forskolin-stimulated cyclic AMP accumulation in slices of rat cerebral cortex, with an IC50 of 21 +/- 3 microM. Because caffeine competitively blocks adenosine receptors, we examined whether the action of forskolin involved endogenous adenosine or whether caffeine was acting through some novel mechanism.

I probably have a lot of spare adenosine receptors because I drink so much coffee.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 18 December 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[magta39]

So I've been on this about a month and really haven't noticed any effect. I've been taking first thing in the am with an empty stomach. Well I do get more alertness from the caffeine, as I don't usually drink coffee or anything (200mg was too much). Should I try increasing Zembrin? Maybe order the artichoke instead of the Zembrin (though the podcast seemed to indicate I should get a much stronger reaction from Zembrin vs artichoke)? I may start going to cambridgesbrainscience to get a more accurate measure, lots of tests though - any in particular I should stick too to see if this is having any effect? Here's what I'm taking:

25mg Zembrin (African Red Tea Imports - Sceletium Tortuosum)
4mg Forskolin(Better Body Sports divided 6 ways)
500mg L-Phenylalanine (Now foods)
Super B Complex (Nature Made - 2mg B6, 15mcg B12, ect.)
100mg Caffeine (Prolab Nutrition)
500mg ALCAR (New Your Vitamins)

I would wait a while before taking caffeine. There's some evidence that it interferes with forskolin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2172772

Caffeine potently inhibited forskolin-stimulated cyclic AMP accumulation in slices of rat cerebral cortex, with an IC50 of 21 +/- 3 microM. Because caffeine competitively blocks adenosine receptors, we examined whether the action of forskolin involved endogenous adenosine or whether caffeine was acting through some novel mechanism.

Also maybe try a stronger B complex, one that has at least 50mgs of each of the different B vitamins

[machete234]

I have a question regarding forskolii extract:
How is it supposed to smell?
I have something thats supposed to be a 10% extract and it smells very strongly of tropical wood.
Its like going into a store where they sell these kinds of furniture.

[abelard lindsay]

Someone asked about forskolin and the liver so I bought access to a recent forskolin toxicity study and analyzed it a bit over at naturalstacks:

http://forum.natural...tty-liver/?p=40

The TL;DR is that they had to get mice up to 612mg/kg of body weight of the raw herb for a week to get "significant effects" and pure forskolin did not have a negative effect.

[deeptrance]

I've been trying the CILTEP stack for a couple of weeks now, but I get really bad anxiety from it. Kind of like it activates the flight response. I've been taking this:

2x450 Artichoke extract
~10mg Forskolin
500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
500mg L-Phenylalanine
Vitamin B complex 100% ADH
Couple of cups of coffee

I didn't take it today and I feel like normal again. I do take a couple of cups of coffee in the morning though. Any idea's appreciated!

It's interesting to me that nobody mentioned artichoke as being a possible suspect. I can self-induce an anxiety attack by taking 500 mg artichoke extract in the middle of the day when I'm already energized and active. I like it first thing in the morning though. For me it feels like a pushy, aggressive stimulant, which I don't really care for unless I'm sleepy and unmotivated.

I should note that I'm not aware of any theoretical reason why artichoke extract would act as a stimulant so it's always possible that I experienced some type of placebo or a series of coincidences. Anecdotes --- no matter how eloquent, sophisticated, or bountiful, and with ruthless disregard for the credentials of the protagonist --- are no substitute for objective, independently verifiable evidence.

Did you "determine" which ingredient is the culprit for you?

Edited by deeptrance, 21 December 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[BioFreak]

Which are the best tests one should take at cambridge brain sciences to see ciltep's affect on the brain?

Also I am trying to experiment with the dosage of artichoke and forskolin... So far I have tried 5-50mg forskolin and up to 3x 600mg of artichoke, unfortunately not standardized to anything (but the strongest I could find locally, they say up to 60g artichoke were used for one pill, contains cynarin, but it dosen't tell how much) (any good sources for artichoke in EU?)

I am currently trying to provoke side effects to get a better feeling at the dosages of artichoke and forskolin(and find out what dosage is right for me), but there haven't been any...(I am taking the rest of the stack too, of course). This is in part because for me ciltep hopefully has an effect but it does not seem as pronounced as it is for others, so I'm trying to optimize it for my body.

If I remember right, too much forskolin should result in an energy crash, brain fog, pretty much reversal of what citlep aims for in general, right? And too much artichoke would mean more and longer, less controllable erections...?

Any other side effects of too much forskolin and artichocke I should watch out for?

[bestbefore]

I've been trying the CILTEP stack for a couple of weeks now, but I get really bad anxiety from it. Kind of like it activates the flight response. I've been taking this:

2x450 Artichoke extract
~10mg Forskolin
500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
500mg L-Phenylalanine
Vitamin B complex 100% ADH
Couple of cups of coffee

I didn't take it today and I feel like normal again. I do take a couple of cups of coffee in the morning though. Any idea's appreciated!

It's interesting to me that nobody mentioned artichoke as being a possible suspect. I can self-induce an anxiety attack by taking 500 mg artichoke extract in the middle of the day when I'm already energized and active. I like it first thing in the morning though. For me it feels like a pushy, aggressive stimulant, which I don't really care for unless I'm sleepy and unmotivated.

I should note that I'm not aware of any theoretical reason why artichoke extract would act as a stimulant so it's always possible that I experienced some type of placebo or a series of coincidences. Anecdotes --- no matter how eloquent, sophisticated, or bountiful, and with ruthless disregard for the credentials of the protagonist --- are no substitute for objective, independently verifiable evidence.

Did you "determine" which ingredient is the culprit for you?

I stopped the Artichoke extract and replaced it with Zembrin and I have no issues anymore. I also stopped drinking coffee as I feel that aggravates anxiety if it's there. The L-Phenylalanine was fine. I could take 1000 mg and not feel anything. I did replace it for a short while with L-Theanine, but that makes me too calm. When I drink green tea, I get a weird wired effect, which I don't like.

I'm now on Forskolin and Zembrin and that's fine.

[machete234]

This is in part because for me ciltep hopefully has an effect but it does not seem as pronounced as it is for others, so I'm trying to optimize it for my body.

Im trying it since yesterday and I dont think its very wakefulness inducing and cannot be compared to modafinil, however I feel slightly altered maybe like drinking half a shot of alcohol.
Moodwise its on the positve side but a bit strange.
When I did not have any forskolin, I tried artichoke + modafinil and some of that weirdness of that combo is there with artichoke + forskolin.

If it helps focusing then it must be the easy type of focus because it doesnt feel like a stimulant for me.

Edited by machete234, 21 December 2013 - 02:11 PM.