2626 replies to this topic

[hypnotik]

I tried the CILTEP stack for the first time today upon awakening at 6:00 am.

-2x450mg Artichoke extract

-Forskolin from Nature's Plus. (standardized 20%[25 mg]forskolin). I didn't bother to measure a lesser amount because I was still sleepy and didn't feel like messing with the scale.

-500mg Phenylalanine

-B-Vitamin complex

-200mg caffeine

-800mg ALCAR

-4.6g Piracetam

An absolutely wonderful stack. I felt the energy roll in at about the 30 minute mark, with a slight euphoric feeling (possibly from the phenylalanine).

At this time, I still feel great. I think the peak was around the 4th or 5th hour, where I think maybe 200mg caffeine was a bit much. Me thinks that I'd do fine with 100mg (I always take 200mg daily). Then again, it could be the Forskolin because I took all the components before the Forskolin arrived and I felt nothing remotely like I did today.

I was most definitely motivated to do "stuff" today, anything, really, from laundry to grocery shopping, exercising (this session was more intense by about 50%) and an insatiable appetite for sex (wifey helped me out with that).

I worked from home today(IT job), and I felt very sharp. Things came quickly to me, and problem solving was quicker than normal. I was more efficient, as well. I'll be doing some studying tonight, so it'll be interesting to see how my retention will play out. I can't speak for any creativity issues like some posters mentioned, though. No mood swings whatsoever.

Sometimes I'll get the 1pm slump, but using my light therapy lamp, I was amped up 20 minutes later. I had no problems with blood pressure or heart rate (if that's a concern, but I should check just in case). As stated above, I'm still feeling great. I just hope it won't last too long and affect my sleep.

My wife was also excited about this stack, but I tweaked hers just a little by adding theanine to her mix. I asked her how she felt at about noon, and she said she didn't feel much of anything. Perhaps she's a non-responder, or maybe the theanine muted the effects; not sure, but I'll have her try again tomorrow morning. If this doesn't work, I think I'll go ahead and buy her Abelard's Natural Stack formula to see if a lesser amount of Forskolin would be ideal. I'll also report back when I try this again tomorrow, but this time I'll actually be in the office.

I'll stay on this stack unchanged, but I'm planning on adding selegiline since that's something I take often and would like to see my reaction.

Thanks to Abelard for starting this thread

Ok, so around the 3rd day and forward I became very sleepy on this stack while at work. I dozed off a couple of times each day. Not sure why I'm experiencing this now. The only thing I can attribute this too was when I took melatonin for a couple of nights to help with sleeping earlier. I won't take this stack this weekend to see if I can reset and re-evaluate it once I start again on Monday.

[magta39]

I've been trying the CILTEP stack for a couple of weeks now, but I get really bad anxiety from it. Kind of like it activates the flight response. I've been taking this:

2x450 Artichoke extract
~10mg Forskolin
500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
500mg L-Phenylalanine
Vitamin B complex 100% ADH
Couple of cups of coffee

I didn't take it today and I feel like normal again. I do take a couple of cups of coffee in the morning though. Any idea's appreciated!

It's interesting to me that nobody mentioned artichoke as being a possible suspect. I can self-induce an anxiety attack by taking 500 mg artichoke extract in the middle of the day when I'm already energized and active. I like it first thing in the morning though. For me it feels like a pushy, aggressive stimulant, which I don't really care for unless I'm sleepy and unmotivated.

I should note that I'm not aware of any theoretical reason why artichoke extract would act as a stimulant so it's always possible that I experienced some type of placebo or a series of coincidences. Anecdotes --- no matter how eloquent, sophisticated, or bountiful, and with ruthless disregard for the credentials of the protagonist --- are no substitute for objective, independently verifiable evidence.

Did you "determine" which ingredient is the culprit for you?

Yes... artichoke with coffee in the afternoon is a good pick me up on a day off from CILTEP.

[magta39]

I tried the CILTEP stack for the first time today upon awakening at 6:00 am.

-2x450mg Artichoke extract

-Forskolin from Nature's Plus. (standardized 20%[25 mg]forskolin). I didn't bother to measure a lesser amount because I was still sleepy and didn't feel like messing with the scale.

-500mg Phenylalanine

-B-Vitamin complex

-200mg caffeine

-800mg ALCAR

-4.6g Piracetam

An absolutely wonderful stack. I felt the energy roll in at about the 30 minute mark, with a slight euphoric feeling (possibly from the phenylalanine).

At this time, I still feel great. I think the peak was around the 4th or 5th hour, where I think maybe 200mg caffeine was a bit much. Me thinks that I'd do fine with 100mg (I always take 200mg daily). Then again, it could be the Forskolin because I took all the components before the Forskolin arrived and I felt nothing remotely like I did today.

I was most definitely motivated to do "stuff" today, anything, really, from laundry to grocery shopping, exercising (this session was more intense by about 50%) and an insatiable appetite for sex (wifey helped me out with that).

I worked from home today(IT job), and I felt very sharp. Things came quickly to me, and problem solving was quicker than normal. I was more efficient, as well. I'll be doing some studying tonight, so it'll be interesting to see how my retention will play out. I can't speak for any creativity issues like some posters mentioned, though. No mood swings whatsoever.

Sometimes I'll get the 1pm slump, but using my light therapy lamp, I was amped up 20 minutes later. I had no problems with blood pressure or heart rate (if that's a concern, but I should check just in case). As stated above, I'm still feeling great. I just hope it won't last too long and affect my sleep.

My wife was also excited about this stack, but I tweaked hers just a little by adding theanine to her mix. I asked her how she felt at about noon, and she said she didn't feel much of anything. Perhaps she's a non-responder, or maybe the theanine muted the effects; not sure, but I'll have her try again tomorrow morning. If this doesn't work, I think I'll go ahead and buy her Abelard's Natural Stack formula to see if a lesser amount of Forskolin would be ideal. I'll also report back when I try this again tomorrow, but this time I'll actually be in the office.

I'll stay on this stack unchanged, but I'm planning on adding selegiline since that's something I take often and would like to see my reaction.

Thanks to Abelard for starting this thread

Ok, so around the 3rd day and forward I became very sleepy on this stack while at work. I dozed off a couple of times each day. Not sure why I'm experiencing this now. The only thing I can attribute this too was when I took melatonin for a couple of nights to help with sleeping earlier. I won't take this stack this weekend to see if I can reset and re-evaluate it once I start again on Monday.

This happens when ACHe gets upregulated over time from the Forskolin....I had the same problem and ALCAR did not solve the problem, I have stopped taking ALCAR completely in favor of galantamine. Works better for me, but ALCAR does seem to work well for my wife

[deeptrance]

I'm now on Forskolin and Zembrin and that's fine.

Are there any other reasons you might recommend Zembrin over artichoke? For example, some people get nauseous from artichoke, would Zembrin be a good substitute for them?

[machete234]

Does anybody get random boners from this? Its a serious question.
I suspect its the artichoke extract because thats somehow viagra like.
I took 4 capsules of a 2-5% camfo...acids extract and this is the second time right now. (browsing the web about non-arousing stuff). Its not rock hard and quickly passes but still its a random errection.

Edited by machete234, 22 December 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[bestbefore]

I'm now on Forskolin and Zembrin and that's fine.

Are there any other reasons you might recommend Zembrin over artichoke? For example, some people get nauseous from artichoke, would Zembrin be a good substitute for them?

Well, I can only tell you how both of them make me feel. Zembrin feels more calm, not at all stimulating. Artichoke seems more stimulating and for me it's too much. I don't get any other side-effects from both.

[Joel Gibson]

I've been trying the CILTEP stack for a couple of weeks now, but I get really bad anxiety from it. Kind of like it activates the flight response. I've been taking this:

2x450 Artichoke extract
~10mg Forskolin
500mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
500mg L-Phenylalanine
Vitamin B complex 100% ADH
Couple of cups of coffee

I didn't take it today and I feel like normal again. I do take a couple of cups of coffee in the morning though. Any idea's appreciated!

It's interesting to me that nobody mentioned artichoke as being a possible suspect. I can self-induce an anxiety attack by taking 500 mg artichoke extract in the middle of the day when I'm already energized and active. I like it first thing in the morning though. For me it feels like a pushy, aggressive stimulant, which I don't really care for unless I'm sleepy and unmotivated.

I should note that I'm not aware of any theoretical reason why artichoke extract would act as a stimulant so it's always possible that I experienced some type of placebo or a series of coincidences. Anecdotes --- no matter how eloquent, sophisticated, or bountiful, and with ruthless disregard for the credentials of the protagonist --- are no substitute for objective, independently verifiable evidence.

Did you "determine" which ingredient is the culprit for you?

I experienced similar things. Once I cut the forskolin down to ~5mg (active) it started working as advertised. Very subtle, but I notice I don't do the whole "brain fart" thing near as often.

[BioFreak]

Does anybody get random boners from this? Its a serious question.
I suspect its the artichoke extract because thats somehow viagra like.
I took 4 capsules of a 2-5% camfo...acids extract and this is the second time right now. (browsing the web about non-arousing stuff). Its not rock hard and quickly passes but still its a random errection.

What brand/product were you using?

[machete234]

Swanson supereror herbs, its says 2-5% extract at 250mg one capsule and 4 of these.
I wouldnt have thought anything of it if it hadnt happened twice after taking this.
Its just unusual because I dont get a half mast reading theoretical stuff and now it happened twice.
I havent had problems with ED or anything like that so Im healthy in that regard.

[DaCurrent]

Some esoteric questions regarding CILTEP's effect on other brain hacking protocols:

1) Is it conceivable that CILTEP reduces the need for REM Sleep (independent of whether or not it increases the need for total sleep). In other words, if I'm using CES to gain more delta sleep in a shorter period of time, would CILTEP conceivably reduce the need for theta wave sleep because learning and memory consolidation are happening while I'm awake?

2) There's got to be a very good reason that something like Huperzine A is excluded from the CILTEP formula and you chose to go other routes for mitigating the acetylcholinesterase upregulation, right? How bad of an idea is it to add Hup A to the formula? I guess it wouldn't inhibit the downregulation but just the enzyme itself and that might not be good.

[MercuryAX]

Does anybody get random boners from this? Its a serious question.
I suspect its the artichoke extract because thats somehow viagra like.
I took 4 capsules of a 2-5% camfo...acids extract and this is the second time right now. (browsing the web about non-arousing stuff). Its not rock hard and quickly passes but still its a random errection.

I get easy random erections from even eating artichoke. I think I'm pretty sensitive to PDE inhibitors.

In regards to the huperzine-A, it seems to help the sleepiness a lot when I take CILTEP. ALCAR may not be strong enough for some people in treatment of the acetylcholinesterase upregulation.

Edited by MercuryAX, 23 December 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[chung_pao]

What do you guys use this stack for?

I'm having really (!) fun using it with DuoLingo for learning Spanish.
Without it, my word retention and motivation is much lower. But with it - I can go on hours, and it's still fun!
http://www.duolingo.com

Tips for people who are not having success with the stack:
Use the normal 2x500 mg artichoke and 4-5 mg forskolin, but consider your NUTRIENT INTAKE.

When on CILTEP, I have to refuel my neurotransmitters with protein and other nutrients at least every 3rd hour.

Edited by chung_pao, 24 December 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[hephaestus]

Hey Abelard you mentioned in some thread I was reading last night that you found glycine to be an effective addition to your stack, do you still take glycine or d-serine or sarcosine or anything like that?

[swen]

What do you guys use this stack for?

I'm having really (!) fun using it with DuoLingo for learning Spanish.
Without it, my word retention and motivation is much lower. But with it - I can go on hours, and it's still fun!
http://www.duolingo.com

Tips for people who are not having success with the stack:
Use the normal 2x500 mg artichoke and 4-5 mg forskolin, but consider your NUTRIENT INTAKE.

When on CILTEP, I have to refuel my neurotransmitters with protein and other nutrients at least every 3rd hour.

Couple of questions:

I see you keep testing ciltep, just like me. Maybe you have a better idea where to look for:
- Are you looking for a stimulated feeling? Or is there no special 'feeling' but it 'just' works in the background? When I take a shitload of caffeine I feel really stimulated for example, but maybe this is too much and therefore decreasing the CILTEP results.
- Can you elaborate more on the nutrient intake? I keep a high fat / moderate protein in daytime, and carbs in the evening (especially after heavy workouts).

Thanks

Edited by swen, 25 December 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[X_Danny_X]

so the affects are fast acting for most folks? I have seen like 30 minutes and 1 hour.....

has anybody combine CILTEP stacks with Brain Uptake Oil C-8? They also have another supplement that you can combine with which is Alpha Brain.


CILTEP didnt give much of a boost, gave me insomnia but I am will to give it another try...I think what I have to do is what Chung_Pao did, give my brain enough food resources That is why Im asking if anybody has used Brain Uptake Oil C-8 or Alpha Brain with CILTEP

[swen]

so the affects are fast acting for most folks? I have seen like 30 minutes and 1 hour.....

has anybody combine CILTEP stacks with Brain Uptake Oil C-8? They also have another supplement that you can combine with which is Alpha Brain.


CILTEP didnt give much of a boost, gave me insomnia but I am will to give it another try...I think what I have to do is what Chung_Pao did, give my brain enough food resources That is why Im asking if anybody has used Brain Uptake Oil C-8 or Alpha Brain with CILTEP

In the Bulletproof Exec podcast with Abelard Lindsay they talk about Alpha Brain and CILTEP. Dave thinks there are some possible synergies.

[Q did it!]

In the Bulletproof Exec podcast with Abelard Lindsay they talk about Alpha Brain and CILTEP. Dave thinks there are some possible synergies.

Of course he did. He sales both of them so if he can get you to put one of them into your cart its not to much more for the second item. Not saying either are bad. In fact they are both quite good. Its just best to remember Dave is a Business man after all. But I must say I do love is take on Coffee the best

Edited by Q did it!, 25 December 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[X_Danny_X]

what about Brain Uptake Oil C-8? I cant listen to the broadcast right now since my PC sucks at the moments....Brain Uptake Oil C-8 is a HUGE deal...32 oz of a bottle

[row1]

Hi there,

I didnt have much results, but I got a good source of Forskolin (c-bolic)

I treid it in the morning and i had a pretty good effect...

For those how hasnt a good response, try c-bolic.

Remember to use only 0,04 grams from the capsule as described


I have a question for the advanced users ..

Have anyone treid to take te supplements with time?

Like 2x artichoke and after a hour the forskolin?

And have someone been experimenting with solubility?

I have some MCT-oil laying around

Also interested if this stack can be made as a som sort of tincture with (very little) alcohol





My test stack for this week:

in the morning all uncappet with water and one scoop with green superfood (http://goo.gl/eZUKzq for more info on superfood

0.04 grams of forskolin form c-bolic better body sports
2x now artichoke 450mg
0.08 grams of caffeine
halve a capsule of vit B complex
0.250 grams of l-phyn. fro now nature's was
0.150 grams of alcar for doctor's west

from here will be trying to build op or down


in the midday
2x krill oil from jarrow formulas



night
magnesium or lysine

[chung_pao]

These days I use 2x artichoke, and a weak stimulant of some sort (tea), and let that absorb and take effect to knock out every bit of PDE-4 I have before I add the forskolin.
I find the effect is much more sustained that way.

I also combine it with fish oil. Partially because of SOLUBILITY, and partially because I find the anti-inflammatory effects VERY helpful in the morning.
IMO, if you don't already do, try adding fish oil with CILTEP in the morning. It makes a BIG difference, if you're n:6 dominant at that moment.

I've also been using ALA with ciltep in the morning, which seems to add to the effect of the stack.

[row1]

Hi Pao,

Thanks for clearing things up a little more

I will try


2x now artichoke 450mg with tea.

after 45 min?


krill oil 2x from jarrows
0.04 grams of forskolin form c-bolic better body sports
0.08 grams of caffeine
halve a capsule of vit B complex nature's was
0.250 grams of l-phyn. fro now
0.150 grams of alcar for doctor's west


today I had 0.07 grams of c-bolic, the effect of ciltep wasn't that good lik the day before.
Dosing 0.04 is pretty hard but more effective. Less is more with c-bolic with me.


I also have glycine, rodhiola and arginine laying arround where can i stack this? With the artichoke? of the rest..

excuses for the bad writing

gr

Edited by row1, 27 December 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Jeoshua]

With all the talk about Caffeine and L-Phenylalanine potentiating the effects of the stack, I'm surprised that nobody has even mentioned the possibility of using Cocoa Extract in this stack. Chocamine, for example, would be a great thing to try instead of pills.

Also, there has been a lot of talk about luteolin as a potential replacement for artichoke, and looking into it Holy Basil has an extremely high amount in it, along with several other chemicals that I have been meaning to experiment with.

I have ordered some Forskolin, Holy Basil Extract, Krebs Precursors, and Activated B Vitamins. I am hoping that, combined with the Chocamine I already have, this will lead to some good effects. But there are two points there to think about: Cocoa and Holy Basil.

[DaCurrent]

So I tried CILTEP yesterday and quite liked it but I didn't realize some of the
ingredients involved are stimulants in the classic sense (namely artichoke extract and l-phenylalanine).

While I'm fine just dropping the artichoke extract for the moment without a suitable
replacement for it's mechanism, I'm having trouble finding any dopamine precursors
wouldn't have vaso-constricting effects. I'm thinking about using the following
stack to act as a suitable replacement for the moment:

Forskolin
ALCAR
Alpha GPC + Phosphatidylserine
B6

These are all ingredients I've used before (including yesterday). The only mechanisms it
doesn't seem to cover are PDE4 inhibition (which I might not even be interested in) and compensating for accelerated dopamine metabolism. Any ideas?

[hephaestus]

Forskolin and a pde4 inhibitor are the two most important parts of the stack, it's not going to do much without the artichoke extract. If you are getting good results without the artichoke extract, it is probably from the cholinergics and you might as well drop the forskolin. Is there some reason you are worried about stimulants? I haven't found ciltep to increase my hr or bp that much, not nearly as much as amphetamines anyway. You don't necessarily need a DA prodrug, I don't always take one.

[DaCurrent]

hephaestus,

I took Forskolin + ALCAR + B6 today with no cholinergics or artichoke extract and I actually like it a lot better. I have good mental clarity without that stimulant feeling.

Haha not worried about BP or Heart Rate--my problem with stimulants is the vasoconstriction decreases erection quality by far. This was actually how I realized there were stims in the stack (then I went online to verify).

[hephaestus]

ALCAR is cholinergic, B6 is a cofactor in dopamine synthesis. DA is actually a vasodilator but it is metabolized into NE which is a vasoconstrictor. CILTEP is nowhere near as vasoconstricting as amphetamines, but I've never had any erection issues with either one. I'm not sure how selective the PDE inhibition of artichoke extract is, but viagra and cialis are PDE5 inhibitors, so I would be surprised if artichoke hurt that much. I would try leaving out just the phenylalanine, but you might get sleepy later.

[Jeoshua]

Artichoke is a fairly nonselective inhibitor, PDEs 1-5, with PDE 4 being the highest inhibited. The amount one would have to take to have any substantial PDE 5 inhibition is pretty high, and deffinitely much higher than I've seen anyone in this thread report taking.

PDE inhibitors, in general, are almost all vasodilators of a certain system of the body or another.

Also, there have been plenty of reports about forskolin actually increasing sex drive, in this thread and in various other places I have seen.

I think it's just performance anxiety caused by thinking that the effects from the stack MUST be caused by stimulants, which have apparently effected you in the past, DaCurrent. The science doesn't support "classic stimulants" or "vasoconstiction"

[roliver51]

Does anyone see any problems with taking about a gram and a half of Phenibut on my weekly off day?

[DaCurrent]

Artichoke is a fairly nonselective inhibitor, PDEs 1-5, with PDE 4 being the highest inhibited. The amount one would have to take to have any substantial PDE 5 inhibition is pretty high, and deffinitely much higher than I've seen anyone in this thread report taking.

PDE inhibitors, in general, are almost all vasodilators of a certain system of the body or another.

Also, there have been plenty of reports about forskolin actually increasing sex drive, in this thread and in various other places I have seen.

I think it's just performance anxiety caused by thinking that the effects from the stack MUST be caused by stimulants, which have apparently effected you in the past, DaCurrent. The science doesn't support "classic stimulants" or "vasoconstiction"

I didn't know there were stimulants in the stack. I found out because things weren't normal. This would be the inverse of the placebo effect. There was no performance anxiety involved because I am completely celibate (including no masturbation). Forskolin is a vasodilator. Artichoke extract appears to be a well known stimulant and vasoconstrictor. I appreciate the help, but you're obviously parroting back some generalities you've either read or heard second-hand without looking into the specifics for yourself.Just in general, that kind of things seems really irresponsible (as does taking a bunch of shit without even looking at the ingredients involved, I know). If I had a lack of critical thinking skills to go along with my chemical ignorance, though, then that woefully fallacious advice would've actually been put to use instead of politely discarded to "such is the internet" pile where it belongs. It's no wonder half of the threads in the "Brain Health" forum are some variation of "Help I really messed myself up using these things, now what do I do!?1?"This wasn't meant to incite or provoke anything, but I do think it would be awesome if people stepped back took a look at how qualified they actually were to respond before trying to help. Cheers

[hephaestus]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that artichoke extract is a stimulant or vasoconstrictor. I've never read anything like that, and a quick skim of webmd and examine revealed only that it may slightly increase blood flow.