2626 replies to this topic

[lexnaevtreymqupquxtewmubrr]

Tried the forskolin 4mg, artichoke, L-Phenylalanine, first time 11 am and felt that pretty quick,, then added coffee soon afterwards. No ALCAR or anything else,, previous night all I took was whey, bcaa and some mushrooms and 7hrs rest.

Good feeling, excellent mood. I can actually feel a difference in my brain (positive feeling. Correct me if any feeling in the hemispheres is a bad sign) No studying but work went by frighteningly smooth... best day in quite a long time,, probably best work day of the year. Didn't eat much except one fairly healthy sandwich in the afternoon.

2pm took some DAA+DIM (first time) also and that was it; DAA gave a boost but the top stack I think overpowers it or is more noticeable.

How long does the combo last? I've been unable to find a duration posted. Now it's about 8 hours later and I'm still very solid... usually always want to rest for two hours at this point in time... Interesting stuff

My buddy tried it too but said he felt absolutely no change positive or negative. He felt the DAA though, heh

Edited by lexnaevtreymqupquxtewmubrr, 18 March 2014 - 02:29 AM.

[pinnacle]

How does this fit into the picture?

N-coumaroyldopamine and N-caffeoyldopamine increase cAMP via beta 2-adrenoceptors in myelocytic U937 cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15790999/

N-coumaroyldopamine is a phytochemical found in various plants, including cocoa. Could consuming cocoa have anything add something to the stack...?

[abelard lindsay]

My latest research on Acetyl-L-Carnitine is up over on the natural stacks blog :

http://blog.naturals...elated-effects/

The idea I'm developing is that acetyl-l-carnitine provides the acetyl moiety to the acetyl-CoA in the nucleus that is required for histone acetylation and deacetylation in the nucleus, thus powering the transcriptional activities of CREB, our favorite Late-LTP enzyme that is powered by cAMP which is raised by forskolin whose breakdown is inhibited by PDE4 inhibitors such as Luteolin.

Lots and lots of citations and such as always.

I'm thinking this means that Vitamin and B1 and B5, which are co-factors in producing acetyl-CoA are good additions to the stack.

[ZHMike]

Hey Abelard any plans to make a new ciltep formulation on natural stacks? Perhaps adding Agmatine B1 and B5, or any other chemical that stacks well? The whole point of buying the natural stacks version is convenience, and not having to add any other pill to it.

I appreciate all your work on this topic, its super interesting I am sure this discussion will continue for years to come!

Edited by ZHMike, 18 March 2014 - 03:50 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Hey Abelard any plans to make a new ciltep formulation on natural stacks? Perhaps adding Agmatine B1 and B5, or any other chemical that stacks well? The whole point of buying the natural stacks version is convenience, and not having to add any other pill to it.

I wouldn't recommend Agmatine right now. IMHO, it's still an experimental addition.

[chung_pao]

Has anyone tested the hormonal effects of "chronic" ciltep supplementation yet?

It should actually have a significant effect, and subjectively it definitely makes you more assertive.
Reasons for this my curiosity:
*PDE 5 inhibitors (luteolin) have shown to have a significant positive effect on steroidogenesis.
*Forskolin is commonly used and referred to as a testosterone-booster - with good very reason.
*The stack should trigger or upregulate steroidogenic mechanisms.
Psychologically and behaviorally - this seems very much to be true.

Testing this hypothesis should be very easy. ZRT-labs allow blood testing which is cheap and convenient. (at home testing)
Just get a subject who hasn't used the stack - and test his T-values after 1 week or 5 days of regular supplementation.

@if you guys at naturalstacks.com had verified, through experiment, that (long-term) CILTEP supplementation has positive hormonal effects, it could be a major sales-argument of yours. Might also cause people to supplement more regularly.
... Just saying, "I'd buy it".
It also might broaden your market to include the meatheads.

Edited by chung_pao, 24 March 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[1337]

I just wanted to see what the consensus on my most recent observations was:

Have any of you noticed a tendency for racetams to dampen the peak CILTeP effect? I find that co-administration of oxiracetam/aniracetam/phenylpiracetam/piracetam to "lower the ceiling" on CILTePs effects. They do add their own character and effect but after a few days of abstinence the CILTeP really has a chance to shine.

I was cycling my CILTeP and racetam intake 5 on two off; but I have found even those two days a week negatively impact the forskolin/artichoke combination.

After years of taking racetams this may be the death knell for my use of them. CILTeP+NGF/BDNF simulators are everything I WISHED the racetams were.

[Charles J. Daniels]

@1337, can you give your ciltep stack details, including any redoses through day and supporting supps, please. Always curious when someone claims great results, which is so common with ciltep.

Edited by Charles J. Daniels, 24 March 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[1337]

Sure...

AM

4g Fish Oil
~1g Lions Mane Extract (30% Polysaccarides)
1350mg Artichoke Extract (5% cynarin)
~7mg Forskolin (pieced out from 40mg caps so measurement is uncharacteristically {for me} vague)
ALCAR 1500mg-2000mg
Vitamin D 2000IU
"Centrum" Standard Multi-Vitamin (for Bs)
Creatine 5g

Sometimes a BPC with 3tbs butter and 3tbs MCT, but not always, and when I do I include 2g Betaine

Early PM

3g Fish Oil
~1g Lions Mane Extract (30% Polysaccarides)
ALCAR 1500mg-2000mg
Vitamin D 2000IU
Creatine 5g (If I am still "loading")

PM

3g Fish Oil
~1g Lions Mane Extract (30% Polysaccarides)

Late PM
6-8g Reishi powder (whole fruits) infused into a tea

I still occasionally add racetams or other substances when experimenting. These last weeks have been the first I have gone without SOME kind of 'tam in quite a while.

I am thinking of adding zembrin or some of the more exotic ampakines to the mix when I have finished characterizing this particular combination. However my GF warns me that the "extreme" focus spoken of by others exploring these stacks may not be appropriate for my current situation.

The apple looms

[Jeoshua]

How does this fit into the picture?

N-coumaroyldopamine and N-caffeoyldopamine increase cAMP via beta 2-adrenoceptors in myelocytic U937 cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/15790999/

N-coumaroyldopamine is a phytochemical found in various plants, including cocoa. Could consuming cocoa have anything add something to the stack...?

I would say that yes, Cocoa does have something very substantial to add to the stack, particularly when taken as a mid-afternoon stack and/or drink. Along with the Caffeine naturally found in the Cocoa, it is an amazing booster to the effects of the stack. The only downside is that the Methylxanthines (Caffeine, Theophylline, and Theobromine) will compete with Forskolin for absorption via the Adenosine receptors. If it weren't for that, Cocoa would almost qualify as a replacement for Luteolin. Now add this new information about N-coumaroyldopamine and it seems it could almost be a replacement for Forskolin, as well.

Edited by Jeoshua, 24 March 2014 - 10:30 PM.

[1337]

I saw a disturbing post on reddit this morning from HSW: http://www.reddit.co...covered_ciltep/

After putting together a CILTEP stack on HealthSupplementWholesalers.com to see how it would sell, we received a cease and desist from naturalstacks.com, a Dave Asprey (bulletproof exec) company.
I had no idea CILTEP was trademarked or that a common, descriptive acronym could even be trademarked.
It's not worth a legal battle to use the term CILTEP, or even cLTP (received another email after we updated the name). Let's hope the acronym cAMP won't easily be "confused" with CILTEP.
Anyway, does anyone know if Dave Asprey discovered this stack? I'm curious as to when CILTEP was first used.

Here is a copy of the letter :http://www.scribd.co...LC-Cease-Desist

What gives? I thought CILTeP was being treated as an open source project. Abalard clearly stated he was supportive of others making derivative products, even for commercial purposes. Is it just the NAME CILTeP that is being protected?

[Charles J. Daniels]

1, I love HSW

2, I'm not a big fan of intellectual property

(just stating my bias)

Abelard coined the term ciltep here independently. So naturalstacks just used it. I see they "registered" it, however, I'm not sure it's legit to register sole use of term someone else coined anyway. Their registration may have holes, and not ultimately be enforceable if the history can show the term was already in generic use. I know, I'll go register the term "water" and go sue Coke.

And if you can't refer to it as ciltep, I will simply have to stop referring to it as that either -- don't want to get sued, and I don't see how you are different from me.

Edited by Charles J. Daniels, 28 March 2014 - 07:08 PM.

[Jeoshua]

We should all change our names to CILTEP just to fuck over Dave Asprey. He just lost a lot of my respect letting his lawyers do this.

[the_apollo]

We should all change our names to CILTEP just to fuck over Dave Asprey. He just lost a lot of my respect letting his lawyers do this.

OR we can all just stop buying anything from his 'naturalstacks.com' company as well as telling people outside Longecity why they should stop buying from his company as well,
well, that is unless he drop the bullying process he gots going for the Ciltep thing..

[Potent]

We should all change our names to CILTEP just to fuck over Dave Asprey. He just lost a lot of my respect letting his lawyers do this.

OR we can all just stop buying anything from his 'naturalstacks.com' company as well as telling people outside Longecity why they should stop buying from his company as well,
well, that is unless he drop the bullying process he gots going for the Ciltep thing..

Yeah, this is the way to go. He has always been a business man first and foremost, which means protecting your assets by any means necessary. The world isn't mister rogers neighborhood, unfortunately. Being backed by lawyers who don't even like "cLTP," I doubt he'll back off. Control where your money goes, spread the message. The 3 core components (Forskolin, Artichoke, ALCAR) + a mg scale can easily be bought on Amazon or elsewhere. Someone could start a new thread with the components transparently listed. Maybe with some key words and google wizardry it would show up on the first page of google. Respect of course goes to Aberlard though, who has taken much time, effort, and money to tweak the stack. He can do whatever he wants.

Edited by Potent, 29 March 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Droplet33]

I'll second what Charles J, Daniels said about the mess "Intellectual Property" laws are at the moment. They stifles innovation in so many ways, what is happening right now is just the latest example that show how bloody ridiculous it has become. I mean, use the courts to stop people from using "CILTEP", a acronym widely used here, but cLTP, a scientific description of a naturally occurring process as well !?

For the record, i've bought all but one (creatine/fenugreek) products from Natural Stacks and supported them whatever i could.

A business can take advantage of the free (as in freedom) development and trials made by tens if not hundred of experimenters on themselves, produce, make and sell at a profit a convenient way to deliver it, no problem with that whatsoever, everyone has to make a living!

But you can't have your cake and eat it too! Take the advantages the freedom of the "free market" provide then use the State and its courts (with the guns to back them up) to crush your competitors without consequences. So, as a capitalist, supporter of the free market and the Non Aggression Principle, i can't continue to support this company and will discontinue purchases i had planned further down the road.

Longecity is a gold mine of free development for users and sellers alike, a space of freedom that allow us to develop/create stacks of supplements seen nowhere else, if we support a business that start to sue people left and right for using/selling what is created here, it will turn ugly in a hurry.

Edited by Droplet33, 29 March 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[ZHMike]

I wonder what Abelard has to say about this...

[Jeoshua]

If Asprey's pack of lawyers has attempted to patent CILTEP, we could have pointed to a mountain of what is known as Prior Art on the subject, here on this thread and dating back to the 80's on pubmed. Unfortunately they went the "trademark" route. What we need to fight against that is to make CILTEP into a household name, like Kleenex or Band-aid. Those later two names are actually company brand names that have been neutered by repeated use and customer familiarity. Nobody thinks of Kleenex as a brand name any more, and a Band-aid is just what you put on a wound. If we can get CILTEP recognized in the supplement field widely enough as just a cAMP increaser plus a PDE4 inhibitor, we win.

Also, I urge anyone reading this boycott all of Asprey's stuff. I looked into his business practices and the guy is a complete monster. He knows less than any one of us on this board, just has a lot of money and a rabid pack of lawyers ready to back his borrowed pseudo-science with legal threats. He has contributed nothing to the nootropic community, and what he does sell is either taken wholesale from other people's hard work or completely fabricated and bullshit.

[Charles J. Daniels]

And seriously, when he got this trademark, I don't suspect the powers that approve such applications were given all of the details, such the existing history of use of ciltep for years in this thread that was simply stolen and "pwned" -- or that the name stands for a generic process. I seriously question the enforciblity of such a trademark legally, in context, and if it is legal and defendable, even given the background and facts, the simple result would be that those laws ~need~ changing.

All intellectual property laws force restrictions upon you with threat of force for no reason other than to let one personal capitalize where otherwise they could not. It is always a case of "I get to tell you what to do, with threat of force, so that I get something for me. Me me me me me. And handcuffs and jail and arbitrary limitations to you. I want money, and I get to dictate all of the circumstances to you. And people support such by thread legal sanctioning of bullying because we all want a piece of some pie. Gross gross yuck. One day we'll live in a world where they stand around with guns and tell you where you can and can't go to protect their piles of resources..... oh, yeah, it's called THE BORDER people. FML. Capitalism has always been fine with, and even championed, the "get more out than you put in" ideal. Just yuck.

[swen]

I think you guys are all overreacting. It looks like NaturalStacks and Dave Asprey share the same lawyer. And the cease and desist is against using the name CILTEP, nothing else. A name Abelard Lindsay came up with. I mean: he gives the formula away for free must other people also copy the name? The only thing they have to do is change the name.

If you trademark a name you have the right to protect it. Think about: quality issues, marketing investments, reputation etc. etc.

I really don't understand where all the fuzz is about.

[cat@]

I have to agree. It was Abelard who came up with it; everyone else just came along for the ride. Sure, they added comments and suggestions, but come on...

[thevaughny]

Read or skimmed damn near every post in this thread and I'm curious to run a trial of ciltep. I previously had bad anxiety and panic issues which are largely resolved but anything I try something new I fear that it will aggravate these symptoms. I have Xanax on hand which quickly resolves any issue that creeps in (rarely need to use it). My question is whether anyone has taken ciltep and a benzo not that I intend this to be a regimen, but just in case things go awry, will need something to pull it back. I note the use of theanine and GABA which would be OTC options but based on the severity of panic if it comes on, I'd like to know if anyone has seen anything that would cause a negative interaction. Not asking for assurance, but surely this has been tried before but I couldn't find any experiences. Thx for any input.

[bzyb]

As far as the intellectual property thing, yeah that one is a bit of a headscratcher. We live in a time of open source projects, but also a time when bigger companies are buying smaller startups in large number. I think that is the fear of anyone who's created something about what to do as far as being open, but also making sure what you create can't just be taken and passed off as something else. This is especially tricky for small fish, as of course big fish have big-time lawyers and its just a matter of time and money. I am of mixed opinion about Dave Asprey because he does pass along a lot of awesome information, but I side with Joe Rogan in their dispute about coffee, as it's not right to say that your product is the only one without mycotoxins when that has been debunked by scientists and coffee experts. I like my grocery store folger's coffee at work just fine!

Anyway hope the issue can be settled amicably and outside of the courts because both suppliers look like good companies that take care of their customers.

Thevaughny, I have used xanax before and stopped, so I would be careful with it if you do use it or try some of the other alternatives suggested on this site such as ScienceGuy's anxiety thread. I stopped benzos a long time ago so I don't know how they interact with CILTEP I just know in the long run I think they made things worse rather than help me. Medicinally, a beta blocker like propranolol might be useful because of fewer sides. Herbally, you can try zembrin (kanna) which works well with the stack, but for me it requires multiple doses. I have agmantine and many different racetams but haven't tried it yet. Good luck!

Edited by bzyb, 02 April 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Amby]

Ok, been away from the thread for a while. I cycled on and off CILTEP. Generally I've been finding minimal if any impact with Artichoke, but generally more focus with Zembrin.

 

 

Anecdotal, but it's at least n=3 now. I had the same experience when using coconut cream in my coffee. I was trying to make basically a bulletproof coffee, and only had the creme. It ended up very delicious of course, but interestingly enough, for the next few days while drinking this concoction (which can be found previously in this thread) I did experence EXTREME potentiation of the CILTEP stack. To the point where I had to swear off my coffee blend because I was too energetic, too focused, and started looking into something that could deal with the increased effects, which I settled on with 250-500mg Agmatine.

Plus, Dave Asprey himself uses his Upgraded MCT Oil in his Bulletproof Coffee, which he takes spaced through the day along with a CILTEP blend. MCT is basically like high octane synthetic gasoline to Coconut Oil's crude. And he swears by the stuff.

 

I tried this today for the first time, doing a CILTEP stack with Coconut Milk and I cannot believe the results. The whole friggin' day I've been focused and on fire. I start the day with my stack around 6.00 am (1 cap zembrin, 8mg C-Bolic Forskolin, Super B complex, 1 cap NOW L-Phenylalanine 500mg, 800mg ALCAR, 5gr creatine). I made sure I had a breakfast high in iron (nice little Thai Beef Red Curry) and eat a slow carb diet. The only thing I didn't do that I normally do is eat eggs until this evening (for choline.)

 

I got to 10.30 am and couldn't believe how much I'd achieved and how much time was left in the day. I was in a meeting with my work colleagues at 4.30 and they were lackluster while I was spurting out all sorts of energy and ideas. Even now at 9.30 pm my brain is still roaring along. I've poured half a bottle of wonderful Argentinean Malbec into me to get it to slow down. In fact I'm worried now it'll take too long to shut down! I did have my first coffee at 8pm, and while I normally have coffee at that time without impacting sleep I'm wondering about it now. I do drink Yerba Mate green tea pretty much all day.

 

I'm thinking tomorrow I'll try the coconut milk again but see how Artichoke goes with it.

 

My approach for getting the most out of this mechanism lately. It's not exactly the CILTEP-stack, but I get much better results from this, and it utilizes the same mechanism.

Morning: Before breakfast:
Artichoke extract 500-1000 mg
Huperzine A 100-200 mcg
Green tea 6g (about 100-120 mg caffeine and some EGCG included)
Iron supplementation: Very low. 25-50% of RDI.

The effect is incredible. Although Huperzine makes it less sustainable for daily use, due to build-up (very long half-life), it's an exciting addition.
*Huperzine A helps me preserve working memory and verbal fluency while getting the benefits of the stack. The resultant effect is very good, without the deterioration in fluency I originally got from this stack. The effects are unlike ALCAR.
With the normal stack, I found myself mute and at a loss for words very often. Huperzine corrects this and allows you to be quicker on your feet.

*Iron supplementation. This made a very big difference for me. Either the stack increases iron-requirements, or I was simply deficient.
Iron is necessary for CYP-enzymes (drug metabolism), dopamine and neurotransmitter synthesis (Tyrosine hydroxylase has a iron-center), and other things.
Check your intake before supplementing. Only include if you're deficient.

*Don't combine tea/caffeine with forskolin. They are antagonistic and cancel each other out. It will only leave you fatigued/depressed due to adenosine-receptor interactions.

Not saying this is better or anything, but if you're curious, I'd definitely recommend you trying it out.
 another dopaminergic.

 

 

Chung-pao: this is really interesting. From what I've read on the interwebs Huperzine A is generally recommended for only 2 or 3 times a week max. Are you taking it 5 days/cycling off 2? Most sources on the internet talk about it as a memory booster and REM sleep booster but generally discuss taking it before going to bed. How are you tracking with it?

 

 

Has anyone tested the hormonal effects of "chronic" ciltep supplementation yet?

It should actually have a significant effect, and subjectively it definitely makes you more assertive.
Reasons for this my curiosity:
*PDE 5 inhibitors (luteolin) have shown to have a significant positive effect on steroidogenesis.
*Forskolin is commonly used and referred to as a testosterone-booster - with good very reason.
*The stack should trigger or upregulate steroidogenic mechanisms.
Psychologically and behaviorally - this seems very much to be true.

Testing this hypothesis should be very easy. ZRT-labs allow blood testing which is cheap and convenient. (at home testing)
Just get a subject who hasn't used the stack - and test his T-values after 1 week or 5 days of regular supplementation.

@if you guys at naturalstacks.com had verified, through experiment, that (long-term) CILTEP supplementation has positive hormonal effects, it could be a major sales-argument of yours. Might also cause people to supplement more regularly.
... Just saying, "I'd buy it".
It also might broaden your market to include the meatheads.

 

This is interesting and I'd love to hear about any blood analysis testing as you've outlined. I'm a 40 year old male and in my last check up a couple of months ago found my testosterone levels were way below average. I did a test 18 months earlier and they were low at the time. So if forskolin (which I've been taking for probably 6 months now) is meant to boost T levels it sure as hell isn't doing it for me.

 

[pbandy1]

for those using Smart Caffeine or any caffeine/theanine combo, have you guys read studies suggesting that increased GABA levels can potentially hamper LTP effects? I'm having trouble trying to interpret some of the abstracts.

 

Upregulation of GABA Neurotransmission Suppresses Hippocampal Excitability and Prevents Long-Term Potentiation in Transgenic Superoxide Dismutase-Overexpressing Mice: http://www.jneurosci.../10977.full.pdf

 

[Nordmann]

Ok, been away from the thread for a while. I cycled on and off CILTEP. Generally I've been finding minimal if any impact with Artichoke, but generally more focus with Zembrin.

 

 

Anecdotal, but it's at least n=3 now. I had the same experience when using coconut cream in my coffee. I was trying to make basically a bulletproof coffee, and only had the creme. It ended up very delicious of course, but interestingly enough, for the next few days while drinking this concoction (which can be found previously in this thread) I did experence EXTREME potentiation of the CILTEP stack. To the point where I had to swear off my coffee blend because I was too energetic, too focused, and started looking into something that could deal with the increased effects, which I settled on with 250-500mg Agmatine.

Plus, Dave Asprey himself uses his Upgraded MCT Oil in his Bulletproof Coffee, which he takes spaced through the day along with a CILTEP blend. MCT is basically like high octane synthetic gasoline to Coconut Oil's crude. And he swears by the stuff.

 

I tried this today for the first time, doing a CILTEP stack with Coconut Milk and I cannot believe the results. The whole friggin' day I've been focused and on fire. I start the day with my stack around 6.00 am (1 cap zembrin, 8mg C-Bolic Forskolin, Super B complex, 1 cap NOW L-Phenylalanine 500mg, 800mg ALCAR, 5gr creatine). I made sure I had a breakfast high in iron (nice little Thai Beef Red Curry) and eat a slow carb diet. The only thing I didn't do that I normally do is eat eggs until this evening (for choline.)

 

I got to 10.30 am and couldn't believe how much I'd achieved and how much time was left in the day. I was in a meeting with my work colleagues at 4.30 and they were lackluster while I was spurting out all sorts of energy and ideas. Even now at 9.30 pm my brain is still roaring along. I've poured half a bottle of wonderful Argentinean Malbec into me to get it to slow down. In fact I'm worried now it'll take too long to shut down! I did have my first coffee at 8pm, and while I normally have coffee at that time without impacting sleep I'm wondering about it now. I do drink Yerba Mate green tea pretty much all day.

 

I'm thinking tomorrow I'll try the coconut milk again but see how Artichoke goes with it.

 

My approach for getting the most out of this mechanism lately. It's not exactly the CILTEP-stack, but I get much better results from this, and it utilizes the same mechanism.

Morning: Before breakfast:
Artichoke extract 500-1000 mg
Huperzine A 100-200 mcg
Green tea 6g (about 100-120 mg caffeine and some EGCG included)
Iron supplementation: Very low. 25-50% of RDI.

The effect is incredible. Although Huperzine makes it less sustainable for daily use, due to build-up (very long half-life), it's an exciting addition.
*Huperzine A helps me preserve working memory and verbal fluency while getting the benefits of the stack. The resultant effect is very good, without the deterioration in fluency I originally got from this stack. The effects are unlike ALCAR.
With the normal stack, I found myself mute and at a loss for words very often. Huperzine corrects this and allows you to be quicker on your feet.

*Iron supplementation. This made a very big difference for me. Either the stack increases iron-requirements, or I was simply deficient.
Iron is necessary for CYP-enzymes (drug metabolism), dopamine and neurotransmitter synthesis (Tyrosine hydroxylase has a iron-center), and other things.
Check your intake before supplementing. Only include if you're deficient.

*Don't combine tea/caffeine with forskolin. They are antagonistic and cancel each other out. It will only leave you fatigued/depressed due to adenosine-receptor interactions.

Not saying this is better or anything, but if you're curious, I'd definitely recommend you trying it out.
 another dopaminergic.

 

 

Chung-pao: this is really interesting. From what I've read on the interwebs Huperzine A is generally recommended for only 2 or 3 times a week max. Are you taking it 5 days/cycling off 2? Most sources on the internet talk about it as a memory booster and REM sleep booster but generally discuss taking it before going to bed. How are you tracking with it?

 

 

Has anyone tested the hormonal effects of "chronic" ciltep supplementation yet?

It should actually have a significant effect, and subjectively it definitely makes you more assertive.
Reasons for this my curiosity:
*PDE 5 inhibitors (luteolin) have shown to have a significant positive effect on steroidogenesis.
*Forskolin is commonly used and referred to as a testosterone-booster - with good very reason.
*The stack should trigger or upregulate steroidogenic mechanisms.
Psychologically and behaviorally - this seems very much to be true.

Testing this hypothesis should be very easy. ZRT-labs allow blood testing which is cheap and convenient. (at home testing)
Just get a subject who hasn't used the stack - and test his T-values after 1 week or 5 days of regular supplementation.

@if you guys at naturalstacks.com had verified, through experiment, that (long-term) CILTEP supplementation has positive hormonal effects, it could be a major sales-argument of yours. Might also cause people to supplement more regularly.
... Just saying, "I'd buy it".
It also might broaden your market to include the meatheads.

 

This is interesting and I'd love to hear about any blood analysis testing as you've outlined. I'm a 40 year old male and in my last check up a couple of months ago found my testosterone levels were way below average. I did a test 18 months earlier and they were low at the time. So if forskolin (which I've been taking for probably 6 months now) is meant to boost T levels it sure as hell isn't doing it for me.

 

 

You really got me curious with Yerba Mate, maybe the small amounts of Quercetin is really synergistic with the Ciltep. 

 

Is there other supplements you take Amby? 

 

 

 

Last week I made Tea with Forskolin, Artichoke extract, coconut oil and stevia. I had really great effects. I have never been so motivated in my life. 

 

But I burnt out my dopamin after 4 days, I was taking Ciltep without L-Phenylalanine as I eat around 150-180g of protein. I know amino acids compete so maybe chunks of the Phenylalanine get crossed out?  

 

I have gotten ok results this week just taking it plain without fat, but not as good as last week. The tea was great but it`s time consuming and it ruin`s my fast :/  But the effect was incredible, so I`ll try it again tomorrow with Phenylalanine.

 

I also have Zembrin that I will test out with fat next week. 

 

I have found Magnesium to be a key supplement, and slow carbs, I use the GI chart to minimize insulin release.

 

I`m also curious/experimenting with Ginkgo and EGCG. 

 

I eat at least 500g of meat a day, so I think my Zinc and Iron level should be better than ok? 

 

I`d love some thoughts on this if anyone has any. I really love this forum and it`s great minds

 

 

for those using Smart Caffeine or any caffeine/theanine combo, have you guys read studies suggesting that increased GABA levels can potentially hamper LTP effects? I'm having trouble trying to interpret some of the abstracts.

 

Upregulation of GABA Neurotransmission Suppresses Hippocampal Excitability and Prevents Long-Term Potentiation in Transgenic Superoxide Dismutase-Overexpressing Mice: http://www.jneurosci.../10977.full.pdf

 

 

Today I took L-Theanine and caffeine at 4pm without taking my regular Piracetam dosage and found the effect of the stack lacking after that. Really a coincidence you posted this the same time I was thinking about this.

 

I guess maybe Piracetam potentiate the effects of the stack enough to blast through, or maybe its only placebo from my part. 

 

 

Behold my Ciltep Tea

 

Edited by Anders Jonassen, 09 April 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[Amby]

 

You really got me curious with Yerba Mate, maybe the small amounts of Quercetin is really synergistic with the Ciltep. 

 

Is there other supplements you take Amby? 

 

 

 

Hey Anders,

 

I also take daily:

- 600mg calcium (I don't take diary except in small amounts on Saturday, which is my cheat day)

- 25mg Zinc

- 100mg Magnesium

- 5000 iu Vitamin A

- 1000 iu Vitamin D3

- 333mg Krill oil

 

Re: Yerba mate, I've tried a few brands but the one that seems to give me the most focus is Cruz de Malta.

 

Incidentally I got to sleep ok, but woke up the following morning with a bit of a headache. As a result I skipped doing CILTEP with artichoke and coconut milk as planned, but will try it tomorrow.

[AmpleBeingdotcom]

I'll second what Charles J, Daniels said about the mess "Intellectual Property" laws are at the moment. They stifles innovation in so many ways, what is happening right now is just the latest example that show how bloody ridiculous it has become. I mean, use the courts to stop people from using "CILTEP", a acronym widely used here, but cLTP, a scientific description of a naturally occurring process as well !?

For the record, i've bought all but one (creatine/fenugreek) products from Natural Stacks and supported them whatever i could.

A business can take advantage of the free (as in freedom) development and trials made by tens if not hundred of experimenters on themselves, produce, make and sell at a profit a convenient way to deliver it, no problem with that whatsoever, everyone has to make a living!

But you can't have your cake and eat it too! Take the advantages the freedom of the "free market" provide then use the State and its courts (with the guns to back them up) to crush your competitors without consequences. So, as a capitalist, supporter of the free market and the Non Aggression Principle, i can't continue to support this company and will discontinue purchases i had planned further down the road.

Longecity is a gold mine of free development for users and sellers alike, a space of freedom that allow us to develop/create stacks of supplements seen nowhere else, if we support a business that start to sue people left and right for using/selling what is created here, it will turn ugly in a hurry.

 

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience and don't support what is coming from this wonderful resource.

 

There are other alternatives for this supplement available if you do not want to support their business practices.

 

Let me know if i can help you in any way moving forward.

[Jeoshua]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience and don't support what is coming from this wonderful resource.
 
There are other alternatives for this supplement available if you do not want to support their business practices.
 
Let me know if i can help you in any way moving forward.

I know you're trying to be helpful, but I honestly have never seen a more crass display of customer-service-speak in all my life.

And I've worked for Time Warner Cable.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 April 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Charles J. Daniels]

the latest e-mail I got from HSW uses the word CILTEP, to say it's back it stock, so that was either an accidental use of the word, or the dogs were called off