2626 replies to this topic

[hephaestus]

I find that theanine helps a lot with any anxiety I get from ciltep. I usually take them together now.

Edited by hephaestus, 24 November 2014 - 12:52 AM.

[calm--]

Do I need to take the B6 at the same times with forskolin, artichoke and tyrosine? Or anytime is fine? I get my B's from Now Adam, and afaik, it's better to consume multivitamin after food. So will it work if I take forskolin, artichoke and tyrosine 30 minutes before breakfast, and take Now Adam after breakfast?

[Spinlock]

Just so people know This stack has been debunked. It was a nice try, but it was based on oversimplified science and the responses are likely a placebo effect.

 

http://www.longecity...nked-on-reddit/

 

[gizmobrain]

Just so people know This stack has been debunked. It was a nice try, but it was based on oversimplified science and the responses are likely a placebo effect.

http://www.longecity...nked-on-reddit/

Thank God you stopped in to save us from our folly!

[Charles J. Daniels]

I'm really glad this "debunked" topic came back up (even if it sets my teeth on edge) :-p

 

I'm a non-responder.

 

I'm a believer in the people who've seen drastic help in their lives.

 

I assume most people like me get their ingredients from the best deals, so this isn't just some cash cow to some patently monopoly.

 

All the ingredients of the stack have individual benefits, so, any ciltep use is not just some waste.

 

I tend to personally believe ciltep isn't going to have drastic effects for the average person, ie. less than 50% of the time.

 

I'm not sure if it actually does do any ltp enhancement, but I've never done it long enough and taken metrics, I say that simply because I didn't get some "ciltep high" and stopped (but at least I see this forest and those trees)

 

The people who do see major benefit however may be getting some very specific help in some area not at all related to ltp.

 

And this all leads up to my major point: I'd really like to some work towards trying to identify the extreme benefit case: who can expect, and why it's helping.

the end :   APPLAUSE 
(don't clap unless I also stopped all the following debunked/has validity back and forth) :-p

 

 

[serp777]

Seems like your missing something: maybe CDP choline for increasing the amount of dopeamine receptors

[1337]

As far as "LTP", I cannot say. However the combination is certainly nootropic. I have taken enough, of enough things, to tell when I am "on" or not. Careful measurement of the forskolin is very important. Too much and you are in for a mid-day crash. ALCAR is also very important. This mixture has come a long way from just artichoke extract and forskolin.

 

I like it.

[Neal Cullum]

Well strangely enough when i've tried to buy the single ingredients to make up CILTEP and take them i didn't notice any effect but when i bought natural stacks CILTEP it worked for me. Maybe it's the quality of the ingredients as well that determine whether it's going to work or not.

[yborcity]

Well strangely enough when i've tried to buy the single ingredients to make up CILTEP and take them i didn't notice any effect but when i bought natural stacks CILTEP it worked for me. Maybe it's the quality of the ingredients as well that determine whether it's going to work or not.

 

 

Interesting post neal, maybe you are prone to think that naturalstacks ciltep product is better than the single ingredients bought separately, prone to placebo/marketing effect maybe even tough their product is good...I have never tried NS ciltep but i certainly will in the future.

 

BTW, does anybody know the difference between taking piridoxine hcl compared to pyridoxal phosphate (aka p5p or plp ).

 

On wikipedia, i quote : "plp plays a role in the conversion of levodopa into dopamine, facilitates the conversion of the excitory neurotransmitter glutamate to the inhibitory one, GABA".

 

any thoughts on that? I know some ciltep fans made the swith to  plp with the stack

Edited by yborcity, 14 December 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[logan113]

hello

 

I red an article that suggest that side effect of PDE4 inhibitors like ropramine is due to its non selectivity in inhibiting PDE4s. The one that should be inhibited is PDE4D for the LTP and tnf-alpha purpose.

 

Here an article with PDE4D inhibitors i let the chimists here give their opinion on that

 

http://www.google.fr....82001339,d.ZGU

 

here the article about PDE4d issue

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22735051

[BieraK]

This stack its so "special"....

Today I have done a session of TDCS... four hours later I take:

10 mg piperine
-------Then I waited some minutes----
60 mg luteolin
150 mg rutin
500 mg artichoke
10 mg 95% forskolin

To my surprise, the stack worked!... It gives me the CILTEP effect that I have felt in the past... concentration like an open door in my frontal lobes and full open eyes.... an effect of stay focused in the present while the reality pass direct to your head...

I took this stack hours later of the tdcs session... I think some synergy must have occurred, because the montage I used was anode in the FPZ an catode in the Righ DLPFC, like this study where the montage was used to stimulate dopaminergic neurons.

 

Noninvasive remote activation of the ventral midbrain by transcranial direct current stimulation of prefrontal cortex

http://www.nature.co.../tp201344a.html

 

 

I have taken this with piperine in a few occasions, but I never got consistent results, however today after a while it worked ... strange stack....

I will do this tomorrow with the TDCS session to see what happens.

Edited by Arsonista, 01 January 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[static55]

Posting this in a fit of exuberance.

 

Just took 12mg forskolin, 400mg alcar, and 900mg artichoke extract like an hour or so ago -- first time on this stack.

 

Feeling totally amazing. Definitely NOT placebo. Definitely way above my baseline.

 

I've been taking the following everyday for the last 7+ days:

 

5mg selegiline

5mg memantine

500mg magnesium glycinate

 

tyrosine hydroxylase support

-------------------------------------

1000mg tyrosine

27mg iron

500mg lion's mane

1000iu d3

b-complex

1000mg vit c

 

oh, and I typically drink two cups of strong coffee around the time I dose all this stuff in the morning

 

 

woooo!

 

hope i don't get tolerance or anything.

Edited by static55, 17 January 2015 - 09:11 PM.

[Suirsuss]

Posting this in a fit of exuberance.

 

Just took 12mg forskolin, 400mg alcar, and 900mg artichoke extract like an hour or so ago -- first time on this stack.

 

Feeling totally amazing. Definitely NOT placebo. Definitely way above my baseline.

 

I've been taking the following everyday for the last 7+ days:

 

...edited quote..

 

woooo!

 

hope i don't get tolerance or anything.

 

Yeah it was really helpful for me for a long time, a number of months even, but a bit more than a year later I don't think I notice much, if any, difference even after unmeasured breaks/very intermittent use. Perhaps the benefits became more permanent causing the effects to be less perceivable.

[static55]

Wow. after the initial euphoria wore off around the middle of the day, I started having thoughts that are very unlike me to have:

 

"I deserve more than everyone around me."

"I'm too good to be doing this" (my job)

"How dare this person talk to me this way."

 

Heh heh. Fun. This could be adaptive. I realize it's delusional. I've never pushed my mind this far before. I wonder if this is affecting my testosterone levels or if I'm starting to get a bit manic. Interesting stuff.

[gizmobrain]

 

Wow. after the initial euphoria wore off around the middle of the day, I started having thoughts that are very unlike me to have:

 

"I deserve more than everyone around me."

"I'm too good to be doing this" (my job)

"How dare this person talk to me this way."

 

Heh heh. Fun. This could be adaptive. I realize it's delusional. I've never pushed my mind this far before. I wonder if this is affecting my testosterone levels or if I'm starting to get a bit manic. Interesting stuff.

 

 

Try taking some Panax Ginseng while working a dead end job, and if you are wired up like me, you will feel these feelings intensely. I'm normally a very passive and laid back person. In some ways, it feels great to explore parts of my personality (righteous anger/passion) that I've not really felt before. But if I were at all unstable (which I'm not), I could see how it could turn into things like Road Rage or domestic abuse.

It's a fine line to straddle between motivation and mild rage. I think it lies in the glutamatergic system, and its balance with the others. I find L-Theanine, Relora (Magnolia bark extract and Phellodendron bark extract), and/or decent forms of Magnesium will take the edge off if this gets too much to bear.

Edited by zrbarnes, 18 January 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[static55]

Thanks for the input.

 

I've got some panax ginseng coming in the mail. I have some theanine so I'll try adding that to the mix too.

 

I've noticed some slight hints of anxiety here and there on ciltep in addition to the very pronounced frustration/mild aggression/mild god-complex

 

Hopefully I can take the edge off a bit. It's oddly enjoyable but it screws up my interactions with co-workers and customers (bad corporate monkey. no treat.).. But it CERTAINLY would help me to rage-quit my job and become self-employed should I decide to do that. I totally feel like quitting my job on ciltep. Probably not a good idea at this point, however.

 

I didn't get a burst of euphoria on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days I used ciltep. The god complex and general frustration with everything that didn't serve my every desire persisted, however

 

On the 4th day I upped my dosage of artichoke extract and felt like crap for a couple hours or so. Then I felt like god for a while. Then I returned to baseline later that day.

 

I'm taking a few days off but I'll report back later on whether I managed to take the aggressive edge off.

[static55]

has anyone taken egcg with ciltep to inhibit comt? 

 

I took 800mg egcg along with 4mg forskolin and 900mg artichoke extract.

 

I've also knocked out a lot of mao-b and a bit of mao-a with high doses of selegiline over the past few days.. 10-20mg/day.

 

My focus seems even further enhanced by the egcg -- very noticeably so! But for about 30 minutes (while egcg levels peaked in my blood, I assume) I felt like throwing up. Looks like egcg also inhibits PDE. combining with 900mg artichoke extract was a bit much.

 

[abelard lindsay]

has anyone taken egcg with ciltep to inhibit comt?

I took 800mg egcg along with 4mg forskolin and 900mg artichoke extract.

I've also knocked out a lot of mao-b and a bit of mao-a with high doses of selegiline over the past few days.. 10-20mg/day.

My focus seems even further enhanced by the egcg -- very noticeably so! But for about 30 minutes (while egcg levels peaked in my blood, I assume) I felt like throwing up. Looks like egcg also inhibits PDE. combining with 900mg artichoke extract was a bit much.

There are a lot of ways to make this stack more powerful in certain ways but they tend to induce mental states that I wouldn't want to be in on a day to day basis.

I thought the hesperidin stack made the feelings of indignation and ambition almost unbearable and wasn't in line with my normally laid back personality. However, it was an interesting dimension of personality that I hadn't explored before.

The zembrin version is worth fooling around with and made me obsessed with studying. I would sit at work and daydream about going home and watching math lectures when I was taking it. I was keeping up with four coursera courses while taking it but neglecting just about everything else.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 23 January 2015 - 05:11 AM.

[gizmobrain]

There are a lot of ways to make this stack more powerful in certain ways but they tend to induce mental states that I wouldn't want to be in on a day to day basis.

I thought the hesperidin stack made the feelings of indignation and ambition almost unbearable and wasn't in line with my normally laid back personality. However, it was an interesting dimension of personality that I hadn't explored before.

The zembrin version is worth fooling around with and made me obsessed with studying. I would sit at work and daydream about going home and watching math lectures when I was taking it. I was keeping up with four coursera courses while taking it but neglecting just about everything else.

 

 

That's the thing about this stack... It seems to potentiate other supplements/herbs in interesting ways.

 

For me, most supplements/herbs by themselves seem to pass right through me without much effect. But with combining them with the ciltep stack, I start to see them actually affect me.
 

Good to see you still on here, abelard. How's life treating you? 

Have you tried fasoracetam yet? Its been my alternate to CILTEP+(Low dose dextroamphetamine) for a while now, and its really helped me.

[abelard lindsay]

That's the thing about this stack... It seems to potentiate other supplements/herbs in interesting ways.

For me, most supplements/herbs by themselves seem to pass right through me without much effect. But with combining them with the ciltep stack, I start to see them actually affect me.

Good to see you still on here, abelard. How's life treating you?

Have you tried fasoracetam yet? Its been my alternate to CILTEP+(Low dose dextroamphetamine) for a while now, and its really helped me.

I am not really taking a lot of researchy nootropics lately. I am doing just fine with my CILTEP, basic 'racetams and a smattering of dopamine boosting stuff and the occasional Zembrin when I need to cram. I've been posting most of my research on natural stack's website. My articles are also linked to from my personal site http://www.abelardre...rticle-archive/. These are technical articles with lots of footnotes and a lot of brain tweaking advice if you take the time to understand them.
 

Edited by abelard lindsay, 23 January 2015 - 07:16 AM.

[gizmobrain]

 

 

I am not really taking a lot of researchy nootropics lately. I am doing just fine with my CILTEP, basic 'racetams and a smattering of dopamine boosting stuff and the occasional Zembrin when I need to cram. I've been posting most of my research on natural stack's website. My articles are also linked to from my personal site http://www.abelardre...rticle-archive/. These are technical articles with lots of footnotes and a lot of brain tweaking advice if you take the time to understand them.

 

I'll check them out. I've been out of the whole scene for a while, because I've been so busy actually living life and succeeding (instead of constantly failing like before). It was CILTEP (plus 2mg time release dextroamphetamine) for... I want to say close to 2 years. Quite amazing. 

Popped back in about 6 months ago and ordered a few things to try. Fasoracetam mimics most of the effects of CILTEP for me. I've always wondered if they work on some of the same pathways, or if it's just the end result that's similar in my particular neuroanatomy. 

 

A few months back, I stumbled upon some kind of weird combination that had long lasting effects. For about a week, most of my symptoms were gone and I had motivation and clarity without taking anything. I've not been able to replicate it, but I know it had to have been some sort of combination of the research noots I was trying.

 

Its weird to see CILTEP branded stuff. I feel a bit attached since I was one of the first and longest running human guinea pigs

Edited by zrbarnes, 23 January 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[BieraK]

whats about lithoum orotate?

could lithium works for tyrosine hydroxylase upregulation?, Does anyone use it as part of their stack?

[chung_pao]

 

has anyone taken egcg with ciltep to inhibit comt?

I took 800mg egcg along with 4mg forskolin and 900mg artichoke extract.

I've also knocked out a lot of mao-b and a bit of mao-a with high doses of selegiline over the past few days.. 10-20mg/day.

My focus seems even further enhanced by the egcg -- very noticeably so! But for about 30 minutes (while egcg levels peaked in my blood, I assume) I felt like throwing up. Looks like egcg also inhibits PDE. combining with 900mg artichoke extract was a bit much.

There are a lot of ways to make this stack more powerful in certain ways but they tend to induce mental states that I wouldn't want to be in on a day to day basis.

I thought the hesperidin stack made the feelings of indignation and ambition almost unbearable and wasn't in line with my normally laid back personality. However, it was an interesting dimension of personality that I hadn't explored before.

The zembrin version is worth fooling around with and made me obsessed with studying. I would sit at work and daydream about going home and watching math lectures when I was taking it. I was keeping up with four coursera courses while taking it but neglecting just about everything else.

 

Abelard, tried CILTEP in combination with Huperzine A (100 mcg) yet?
It makes a significant difference.

For me, CILTEP always hurt my verbal fluency and working memory.
Only when I added Huperzine A at this low dose was I not only able to maintain it, but go past my normal ability.
Felt incredibly synergistic, but I didn't make any measurements. 

[swen]

 

 

has anyone taken egcg with ciltep to inhibit comt?

I took 800mg egcg along with 4mg forskolin and 900mg artichoke extract.

I've also knocked out a lot of mao-b and a bit of mao-a with high doses of selegiline over the past few days.. 10-20mg/day.

My focus seems even further enhanced by the egcg -- very noticeably so! But for about 30 minutes (while egcg levels peaked in my blood, I assume) I felt like throwing up. Looks like egcg also inhibits PDE. combining with 900mg artichoke extract was a bit much.

There are a lot of ways to make this stack more powerful in certain ways but they tend to induce mental states that I wouldn't want to be in on a day to day basis.

I thought the hesperidin stack made the feelings of indignation and ambition almost unbearable and wasn't in line with my normally laid back personality. However, it was an interesting dimension of personality that I hadn't explored before.

The zembrin version is worth fooling around with and made me obsessed with studying. I would sit at work and daydream about going home and watching math lectures when I was taking it. I was keeping up with four coursera courses while taking it but neglecting just about everything else.

 

Abelard, tried CILTEP in combination with Huperzine A (100 mcg) yet?
It makes a significant difference.

For me, CILTEP always hurt my verbal fluency and working memory.
Only when I added Huperzine A at this low dose was I not only able to maintain it, but go past my normal ability.
Felt incredibly synergistic, but I didn't make any measurements. 

 

 

I also have good experience with adding Huperzine A when it influenced my working memory. However, it could give me a headache. I also tried adding Alpha GPC but was too strong for me. 

 

Now I just take a double dosage of ALCAR and I seem to be fine. 

[yborcity]

 

 

has anyone taken egcg with ciltep to inhibit comt?

I took 800mg egcg along with 4mg forskolin and 900mg artichoke extract.

I've also knocked out a lot of mao-b and a bit of mao-a with high doses of selegiline over the past few days.. 10-20mg/day.

My focus seems even further enhanced by the egcg -- very noticeably so! But for about 30 minutes (while egcg levels peaked in my blood, I assume) I felt like throwing up. Looks like egcg also inhibits PDE. combining with 900mg artichoke extract was a bit much.

There are a lot of ways to make this stack more powerful in certain ways but they tend to induce mental states that I wouldn't want to be in on a day to day basis.

I thought the hesperidin stack made the feelings of indignation and ambition almost unbearable and wasn't in line with my normally laid back personality. However, it was an interesting dimension of personality that I hadn't explored before.

The zembrin version is worth fooling around with and made me obsessed with studying. I would sit at work and daydream about going home and watching math lectures when I was taking it. I was keeping up with four coursera courses while taking it but neglecting just about everything else.

 

Abelard, tried CILTEP in combination with Huperzine A (100 mcg) yet?
It makes a significant difference.

For me, CILTEP always hurt my verbal fluency and working memory.
Only when I added Huperzine A at this low dose was I not only able to maintain it, but go past my normal ability.
Felt incredibly synergistic, but I didn't make any measurements. 

 

Would you take preferably HuperzineA over Alcar to avoid the midday kind of sleepiness induced by the stack? 

[happyjourney]

One thing I really like to do when taking this stack is watch Khan Academy videos at double speed. I watch them for literally hours. I swear I get everything and it's thoroughly entertaining the whole way through. I can remember them fairly well the next day, in fact if I go over them in my head a bit the following day, and the memories solidify. It's also much easier to pay attention to what people are saying in social situations and bust out with extremely long complicated explanations of technical details without even a stutter.

 

 

how do you play khan academy videos at double speed?
 

[cylon]

Ok so i've read thru most of this thread.

A lot to digest, and I don't mean literally:)

 

Was hoping a few more knowledgeable persons (Abelard?) could answer a few questions

 

1 Forskolin dosage

I have some Paradise brand 250mg 10% forskolin capsules.

 

 

To get the correct dosage I should divide each capsule into 4-5 parts...correct?

 

what would happen synergystically if I were to take a full capsule (I assume 20-25mg Forskolin in my case)?

 

How does CILTEP stack with each of the following?

 

-any additional choline

 

-rhodiola

 

-lion's mane

 

-cordyceps

 

-dmae

 

 

I know Quercetin isn't recommended as a Artichoke substitute, but are there any other combinations to avoid?

 

Thanks for any and all feedback!

 

 

 

Edited by cylon, 07 March 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[cylon]

Actually 2 other supplements as well I was thinking of adding to CILTEP

SAM-e
and Phospatyldsyrine

[Razor444]

 

 

how do you play khan academy videos at double speed?
 

 

 

You need to be using the html5 video player:

https://www.youtube.com/html5

 

You should then be able to change the speed with the settings button (looks like a cog), on each video.

[happyjourney]

 

 

 

how do you play khan academy videos at double speed?
 

 

 

You need to be using the html5 video player:

https://www.youtube.com/html5

 

You should then be able to change the speed with the settings button (looks like a cog), on each video.

 

 

thanks bro