2626 replies to this topic

[gizmobrain]

Unfortunately, I don't know how to access galantamine. I took lecithin yesterday, but I had a weird reaction in the form of a severe panic attack to some combination of the supplements I'd taken along with it. Whether the lecithin was partially responsible, I have no idea, but don't feel like trying my luck either. Hopefully it won't take too long for my brain to go back to normal on its own? I think I'm done experimenting with my brain for the time being.

Lecithin is found in a wide variety of food, drinks, supplements, etc. It is commonly used as an emulsifier in food. There are some people who have an allergic reaction to it and have to avoid it. Do you have anxiety after eating chocolate candy bars? If not, then it was probably something else.

I don't think it should take more than a few days for your brain to return to homeostasis. Maybe a week at most?

The plant derived version of Galantamine is available at several places on the internet. I purchased mine from SmartPowders.com, but it appears as if they are currently out of stock. The Life Enhancement branded version is called Galantamind, and sells on Amazon among other places, but is very pricey.

Edited by zrbarnes, 29 June 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[oryx]

Thanks. Such a relief to hear you don't think it'll take too long. I'm sure the lecithin suggestion sounds silly. Just somewhat traumatized by the unexpected reaction.

[gizmobrain]

Not incredibly silly. Some people do have bad reactions to lecithin, but it's typically due to contaminants from badly produced lecithin.

[trip96]

Hey guys, I read this article today and found it pretty interesting. Check it out. It's about tubulin and LTP

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=262191

[magta39]

Is is necessary to take Leutonin if I am taking Forksholin and Quercetin?

Here's a study that says Quercetin is a suspected COMT/MAO Inhibitor
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12711835

Pharmacology. 2003 Jun;68(2):81-8.
Quercetin potentiates L-Dopa reversal of drug-induced catalepsy in rats: possible COMT/MAO inhibition.
Singh A, Naidu PS, Kulkarni SK.
Source

Pharmacology Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab University, Chandigarh, India.
Abstract

L-Dopa plus carbidopa treatment remains the first-line therapy in Parkinson's disease. The use of catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) and/or monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors as an adjunct to L-dopa therapy has yielded varying degrees of success. Quercetin, a flavonoid present in many plants, is reported to inhibit COMT and MAO activities, the key enzymes involved in the metabolism of dopamine. In the present study we have studied the effect of quercetin on the L-dopa plus carbidopa combination against perphenazine and reserpine-induced catalepsy in rats. Neuroleptic-induced catalepsy is a widely accepted animal model for testing the drugs used in parkinsonism. Catalepsy in rats was induced by administration of perphenazine (5 mg/kg i.p.) or reserpine (2.5 mg/kg i.p.) + alpha-methyl-P-tyrosine (200 mg/kg i.p.). Catalepsy in animals was assessed by using the bar test. The quercetin dose (25-100 mg/kg, p.o.) dependently reversed perphenazine- as well as reserpine-induced catalepsy. When quercetin was combined with a subthreshold dose of L-dopa plus carbidopa, the anticatatonic effect was potentiated. Pretreatment with a central COMT inhibitor, 3,5-dinitrocatechol (OR-486) (10 mg/kg p.o.), or a MAO-B inhibitor, selegiline (5 mg/kg i.p.), also potentiated the actions of threshold dose of quercetin against perphenazine- or reserpine-induced catalepsy. On the other hand adenosine (100 mg/kg i.p.), which is known to decrease the release of catecholamines through an action on presynaptic A(1) receptors, partly reversed the protective effect of quercetin against perphenazine-induced catalepsy. Quercetin through its COMT and MAO enzyme-inhibiting properties might potentiate the anticatatonic effect of L-dopa plus carbidopa treatment. The results of the present study strongly suggest that quercetin could serve as an effective adjunct to L-dopa therapy in Parkinson's disease.

Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel

PMID:
12711835
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quercetin, by itself (w/o forskolin or dopamine precursors) causes anxiety in me when taken 2 consecutive days (500mgs in a.m.)...the first day is very productive, but the second day I was anxious and did not settle down until evening when I felt much better, I actually had a very productive time in class that evening, but then could not sleep all night....but my mood the next day continued to be very good...I will try taking one capsule every other day.....FYI I am prone to anxiety and very sensitive to CDP choline and tyrosine/phenylalanine supplements

[gizmobrain]

I would recommend trying rosemary extract. It contains COMT inhibitors, gaba releasers and pde4 inhibitors. Very anxiolytic.

[X_Danny_X]

Is is necessary to take Leutonin if I am taking Forksholin and Quercetin?

Here's a study that says Quercetin is a suspected COMT/MAO Inhibitor
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12711835

Pharmacology. 2003 Jun;68(2):81-8.
Quercetin potentiates L-Dopa reversal of drug-induced catalepsy in rats: possible COMT/MAO inhibition.
Singh A, Naidu PS, Kulkarni SK.
Source

Pharmacology Division, University Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Panjab University, Chandigarh, India.
Abstract

L-Dopa plus carbidopa treatment remains the first-line therapy in Parkinson's disease. The use of catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) and/or monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors as an adjunct to L-dopa therapy has yielded varying degrees of success. Quercetin, a flavonoid present in many plants, is reported to inhibit COMT and MAO activities, the key enzymes involved in the metabolism of dopamine. In the present study we have studied the effect of quercetin on the L-dopa plus carbidopa combination against perphenazine and reserpine-induced catalepsy in rats. Neuroleptic-induced catalepsy is a widely accepted animal model for testing the drugs used in parkinsonism. Catalepsy in rats was induced by administration of perphenazine (5 mg/kg i.p.) or reserpine (2.5 mg/kg i.p.) + alpha-methyl-P-tyrosine (200 mg/kg i.p.). Catalepsy in animals was assessed by using the bar test. The quercetin dose (25-100 mg/kg, p.o.) dependently reversed perphenazine- as well as reserpine-induced catalepsy. When quercetin was combined with a subthreshold dose of L-dopa plus carbidopa, the anticatatonic effect was potentiated. Pretreatment with a central COMT inhibitor, 3,5-dinitrocatechol (OR-486) (10 mg/kg p.o.), or a MAO-B inhibitor, selegiline (5 mg/kg i.p.), also potentiated the actions of threshold dose of quercetin against perphenazine- or reserpine-induced catalepsy. On the other hand adenosine (100 mg/kg i.p.), which is known to decrease the release of catecholamines through an action on presynaptic A(1) receptors, partly reversed the protective effect of quercetin against perphenazine-induced catalepsy. Quercetin through its COMT and MAO enzyme-inhibiting properties might potentiate the anticatatonic effect of L-dopa plus carbidopa treatment. The results of the present study strongly suggest that quercetin could serve as an effective adjunct to L-dopa therapy in Parkinson's disease.

Copyright 2003 S. Karger AG, Basel

PMID:
12711835
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quercetin, by itself (w/o forskolin or dopamine precursors) causes anxiety in me when taken 2 consecutive days (500mgs in a.m.)...the first day is very productive, but the second day I was anxious and did not settle down until evening when I felt much better, I actually had a very productive time in class that evening, but then could not sleep all night....but my mood the next day continued to be very good...I will try taking one capsule every other day.....FYI I am prone to anxiety and very sensitive to CDP choline and tyrosine/phenylalanine supplements

I have no anxiety issues. I have problems staying still when trying to study I don't like. If I do something else such as play video games, reading something I like, watching things I like, then I have no issues and concentrate well. I so far have no problems taking the CILTEP stack with Quercetin. Sleeping has been an issue for me. But I take GABA, Melatonin, and Ashwaghanda at night. So far it helps me sleep consistently.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 30 June 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[Rior]

Has anyone here used Galantamine to combat the fatigue from this stack? I've noticed that the longer I use it, the more exhausted I feel as opposed to the stimulation I felt at first. Unfortunate :( Looking for a good way to combat the fatigue. Even the energy drink I just finished hasn't done much for me.

[magta39]

Has anyone here used Galantamine to combat the fatigue from this stack? I've noticed that the longer I use it, the more exhausted I feel as opposed to the stimulation I felt at first. Unfortunate :( Looking for a good way to combat the fatigue. Even the energy drink I just finished hasn't done much for me.

Yes the same happened to me...even coffee would not wake me up....discontinue the stack and take 8mgs of galantamine for 2 or 3 days and you will be back to normal

[gizmobrain]

I think possibly the problem stems from the relatively high doses of forskolin that most are taking (20mg or more) compared to the amount taken by AL (~2mg).

I personally enjoy the physical benefits of 20mg, but if it's going to cause the sleepies to creep in, I'm going to need to establish a proper cycling procedure, or find a way to split my pills into 10 parts :-/

I'm not sure if Galantamine is the best way to accomplish this or not. I like the way it feels, and it treats the symptom well, but I need to do some research. One thing I've read is that Galantamine has a long half-life, so I'm thinking CILTEP 5 days a week, 8mg Galantamine on the 6th, and nothing on the 7th.

I need to relearn the relationship between choline, histamine, and sleepiness, because it could possibly be the Quercetin compounding the problem as well.

Edited by zrbarnes, 30 June 2012 - 09:56 PM.

[summertimex]

I was fine on the next day, but I took several things. Instead of the racetam + ciltep stack I took a caffeine drink, blueberry/blackberry/strawberry juice, b vitamin complex, multivitamin and I ended up being awake. I dont know exactly what turned on my currents, but something like that.

[dreth7]

Aberland, how is the hesperidin treating you?

[abelard lindsay]

The Hesperidin all by itself at first seemed fine. I made the mistake of mixing it up with a lot of other things in my stack. No, I'm not going to tell you exactly what I did because you're stupid if you try it. Let's just say I built up a few too many catecholamines. It crept up on me over a couple of days. Don't worry. Nothing seriously regrettable happened but I did have to take a lot of GABA and IMHO I don't think someone with pre-existing psychological issues would have fared so well. I haven't taken anything but a mutlivitamin and fish oil for the last two days and things are almost back to normal. I'm pretty much sticking to that for a while. So basically, I wouldn't recommend Hesperidin in this stack.

On a different subject: Regarding stack durability. I didn't take more than 3.5mg of forskolin a day. Maybe it's the 500mg catuaba that makes a difference? That thing does wonders for keeping my dopamine and overall energy levels up.

Anyway, I think I've explored this mechanism of action enough for now. Maybe I'll re-visit it in a little while as more research into late LTP and PDEs becomes available.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 01 July 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[dreth7]

I've been dosing very conservatively and have noticed slight enhancements with recall. *Like casually remembering a random maintenance number from the day and never shaking it*

I have already ordered hesperidin from swanson to give it a try. It makes logical sense that it would stack quite effectively with the artichoke extract. Is a dopamine enhancer essential to long term effect/ balance? I hate to be prying aberland, but what did you stack in addition that created a CA imbalance?

[Rior]

The Hesperidin all by itself at first seemed fine. I made the mistake of mixing it up with a lot of other things in my stack. No, I'm not going to tell you exactly what I did because you're stupid if you try it. Let's just say I built up a few too many catecholamines. It crept up on me over a couple of days. Don't worry. Nothing seriously regrettable happened but I did have to take a lot of GABA and IMHO I don't think someone with pre-existing psychological issues would have fared so well. I haven't taken anything but a mutlivitamin and fish oil for the last two days and things are almost back to normal. I'm pretty much sticking to that for a while. So basically, I wouldn't recommend Hesperidin in this stack.

On a different subject: Regarding stack durability. I didn't take more than 3.5mg of forskolin a day. Maybe it's the 500mg catuaba that makes a difference? That thing does wonders for keeping my dopamine and overall energy levels up.

Anyway, I think I've explored this mechanism of action enough for now. Maybe I'll re-visit it in a little while as more research into late LTP and PDEs becomes available.

I see that you wouldn't recommend hesperidin with the stack, however you also mention taking many more supps on top of the regular few. I've started with 1 artichoke, 1 swanson hesperedin and about 4mg of forskolin, 2x a day. Would you recommend against hesperedin in this stack even in this most basic form?

[health_nutty]

Albert, can you let us know what to avoid? I worried that others might stumble into the same problem.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[nupi]

I got the Thorne Forskohlii capsules (100mg @ 20%). Am I reading the thread correctly that I should initially aim for 2mg of Forskolin or IOW 10mg of the extract? It says 2-3 capsules PER DAY on the bottle... I do have a mg scale, so could mess with the powder in the capsules.

To go with that, I can either use NOW Quercetin with Bromelain (400mg Quercetin Dihydrate and 82mg Bromelain) (got a big bottle of this) or Source Naturals Activated Quercetin (which is really just 215mg Vit C, 16g Mg Ascorbate, 333mg Quercetin and 100mg Quercetin). Any recommendations on good dosages to start with?

[summertimex]

probably any psychostimulants, or maybe anything more than piracetam.

some of us are taking 10-20mg forskolin btw, i can tolerate dosing twice per day 2 artichoke 2 10mg forskolin with only light caffeine. more than that there are definete PDE gastrointestinal effects. on the long-term it is better to take 4mg< because it makes you tired. even then it is better to cycle off 1/2 days.

the hesperedin effects, he had a really bad experience. its mechanisms of action are more PDE4 selective, and it must have other types of mechanisms. hesperedin might be fine to cut in half with only forksolin, but most of you take other things. might be decent for an off cycle day.

i dont know.

Ive drank orange peel tea from japanese store and it definetly had an effect similar to the description of hesperedin, kind of like a swimmy, anxiolyticish, orange vision twinge, insullated dreamy kind of thing.

I'm trying the more water soluable, methylated derivative of hesperdin, hesperdin methyl chalcone. i'll post how that goes.

Edited by gen6k, 01 July 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[Rior]

In regards to Hesperidin, I figured this study might be worth reading:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19159642

Hesperidin, a flavonoid glycoside with sedative effect, decreases brain pERK1/2 levels in mice.

Martínez MC, Fernandez SP, Loscalzo LM, Wasowski C, Paladini AC, Marder M, Medina JH, Viola H.

Source

Instituto de Biología Celular y Neurociencias, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Paraguay 2155, 3 degrees Piso, C1121ABG, Argentina.

Abstract

The aim of this work was to evaluate if the intraperitoneal administration of the natural compound hesperidin, in a sedative dose, and neo-hesperidin, a hesperidin structural analog that exerts minor sedative effect, were able to induce changes in intracellular signaling cascades in different areas of the brain. The systemic administration of hesperidin produced a marked reduction in the phosphorylation state of extracellular signal-regulated kinases 1/2 (ERK 1/2), but not of Ca(+2)/calmodulin-dependent protein kinase II alpha subunit (alphaCaMKII), in the cerebral cortex, cerebellum and hippocampus. In contrast, neo-hesperidin did not markedly affect the activity of ERK 1/2 in both the cortex and the cerebellum. Taken together, these results demonstrated that intracellular signalling involving a selective decrease in ERK1/2 activation accompanied the depressant action of hesperidin. Even more, the low sedative action of neo-hesperidin correlates with a negligible decrease in phosphorylation state of ERK 1/2 (pERK 1/2), suggesting that low levels of pERK 1/2 in CNS could be a marker of sedative efficacy of flavonoids.

Now, I don't particularly understand the pERK system and can't therefore make much of an analysis of this other than the fact that hesperidin's demonstrated sedative effects. Anyone know enough about the pERK system to comment?

I took hesperidin again today, for the second time, with the same basic stack of ~4mg of Forskolin, 1 artichoke pill, 1 swanson brand hesperidin, whole foods brand B-complex vitamin and other less mentionable supps and it felt great. So far the hesperidin, at least today, has been a great addition to my stack. It was slightly sedating, however far less so than yesterday as all of yesterday I was fighting off a hangover from partying the night before. I'll continue with the hesperidin and give comments as I go along. I figure my stack is basic enough that I can adequately judge the combination of these few supps exclusively. Although I do now just realize that a last major factor in my general state of well-being is the 25mg of Zoloft I take daily, which would kill off any anxiety that I might feel from the stack otherwise. Still, though, I'll happily give updates.

Edited by Izat04, 01 July 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[summertimex]

So it seems to be the most selective at PDE4 accumulation, but it seems to lower the actual ERK dendritic extension mechanism? Well forskolin at least counter-acts some of this effect, but I dont know if its a good thing.

Edited by gen6k, 01 July 2012 - 09:40 PM.

[Rior]

So it seems to be the most selective at PDE4 accumulation, but it seems to lower the actual ERK dendritic extension mechanism? Well forskolin at least counter-acts some of this effect, but I dont know if its a good thing.

After researching a bit into it, I see that the ERK protein can also be known as a MAP kinase. That said, researching into the MAPK signal transduction pathway, it seems that it has direct effects on the proliferation of cells, the differentiation of individual cells, transcription and general cellular development? I haven't seen anything on direct MAPK involvement in dendritic extension, but I'm curious to know if I'm just wrong. I suppose if MAPK if is involved in the differentiation of cells and cellular development, dendritic extension would be considered a part of that. This all said, interestingly enough I also found that the development of cancer has been linked to malfunctioning MAP/ERK kinases, and that inhibitors of MAPK/ERK were theorized to help substantially in slowing the development of cancer. So hooray for hesperidin being another element of cancer fighting?

I'm still not quite excited about the idea of slowed cellular development in regular, healthy cells due to inhibition of MAPK/ERK though. I'm curious to know if this was found to be substantial. On this note, hesperidin actually seems to be counter-productive to the facilitation of neuronal growth and therefore counter-productive to the goal of increasing one's intelligence. Seems like something one would certainly want to avoid during a cerebrolysin regimen.


EDIT:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20678535

Protective effects of hesperidin against oxidative stress of tert-butyl hydroperoxide in human hepatocytes.

Chen M, Gu H, Ye Y, Lin B, Sun L, Deng W, Zhang J, Liu J.

Source

State Key Laboratory of Bioreactor Engineering, Shanghai Key Laboratory of Chemical Biology, School of Pharmacy, East China University of Science and Technology, China.

Abstract

Increasing evidence regarding free radical generating agents and the inflammatory process suggest that accumulation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) could involve hepatotoxicity. Hesperidin, a naturally occurring flavonoid presents in fruits and vegetables, has been reported to exert a wide range of pharmacological effects that include antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, antihypercholesterolemic, and anticarcinogenic actions. However, the cytoprotection and mechanism of hesperidin to neutralize oxidative stress in human hepatic L02 cells remain unclear. In this work, we assessed the capability of hesperidin to prevent tert-butyl hydroperoxide (t-BuOOH)-induced cell damage by augmenting cellular antioxidant defense. Hesperidin significantly protected hepatocytes against t-BuOOH-induced cell cytotoxicity, such as mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP) deplete and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release. Hesperidin also remarkably prevented indicators of oxidative stress, such as the ROS and lipid peroxidation level in a dose-dependent manner. Western blot showed that hesperidin facilitated ERK/MAPK phosphorylation which appeared to be responsible for nuclear translocation of Nrf2, thereby inducing cytoprotective heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) expression. Based on the results described above, it suggested that hesperidin has potential as a therapeutic agent in the treatment of oxidative stress-related hepatocytes injury and liver dysfunctions.

Copyright © 2010 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

And here I've found another study that seems to contradict the first study in regards to the phosphorylation of ERK/MAPK. I believe it shouldn't be possible for hesperidin to facilitate the phosphorylation of ERK/MAPK and still have anti-carcinogenic effects though, due to the previously understood mechanism of said effects. The other studies I find seem to agree that hesperidin is involved in inhibiting phosphorylation of ERK/MAPK, I wonder how this study came up with the opposite.

Going off of this study for other reasons though, it's great to see how powerful the antioxidant capabilities of hesperidin seem to be.

Edited by Izat04, 02 July 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Rior]

Here's a very important study I just came across, that is as recent as June 22nd, 2012. (10 days ago)

J Appl Toxicol.

2012 Jun 22. doi: 10.1002/jat.2770. [Epub ahead of print]

Dietary Coleus forskohlii extract generates dose-related hepatotoxicity in mice.

Virgona N, Taki Y, Yamada S, Umegaki K.

Source

Information Center, National Institute of Health and Nutrition, 1-23-1 Toyama, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo, 162-8636, Japan; Faculty of Pharmacy, The University of Sydney, NSW, 2006, Australia.

Abstract

Coleus forskohlii root extract (CFE) represented by its bioactive constituent 'forskolin' is popularly used as a natural weight-lowering product, but the association of its use with liver-related risks is very limited. In the present study, the effect of standardized CFE with 10%forskolin on liver function of mice was examined. Mice were given 0-5% CFE in an AIN93G-based diet for 3-5 weeks. Food intake, body weights, relative organ weights and liver marker enzymes [aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), and alkaline phosphatase (ALP)] combined with histophatological analysis were assessed. CFE (0-0.5%) only had minimal effects on food intake and body weight whereas a significant difference was observed in mice receiving the highest dose (5% CFE). The extract 0.05-5% dose-dependently decreased visceral fat weight by between 16% and 63%, and a dose-dependent several folds increase was observed in liver weights and plasma AST, ALT and ALP activities with quick onset apparent after only 1 week of 0.5% CFE intake. The hepatic effect persisted throughout the 3-weeks course but was restored towards normalization within 1 week after withdrawal of treatment. Liver histology of mice fed 0.5% CFE for 3 weeks showed hepatocyte hypertrophy and fat deposition. In contrast, none of the hepatic responses measured were altered when mice were given a diet containing pure forskolin alone at the dose corresponding to its content in 0.5% CFE. The present study clearly indicated that forskolin was not involved in the CFE-induced hepatotoxicity and was caused by other unidentified constituents in CFE which warrants further studies. Copyright © 2012 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Copyright © 2012 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 22729658 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

This is a bit unnerving. I'd love to know of a pure forskolin extract, that exists without the rest of the plant. I surely don't want to screw up my liver by taking this for an extended period of time. Very important study to acknowledge for all of us taking a forskohlii extract.

[gizmobrain]

I can say that after a few months of taking 100mg of coleus forskohlii root extract (20% forskolin), that my liver results were the following:

• ALP: 82
  
• Range: 40-115 U/L

• AST: 19
  
• Range: 10-40 U/L

• ALT: 19
  
• Range: 9-60 U/L

As far as I know, those are normal results, though I have not had any tests prior to forskolin to compare the two results.

However, I have wanted to get access to a relative pure forskolin extract for a long time now (mostly because of the GI tract issues). Earlier in this thread, I posted a very easy method of extraction by using ethanol and activated charcoal where you can obtain ~98% forskolin in only a few steps. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash for the rudimentary lab tech needed (burner and a few glass pieces), nor access to a lab.

Edited by zrbarnes, 02 July 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[Rior]

I found a website that does have a 98% forskolin extract, however I don't see it as being for sale on the website anywhere. That said, I've just emailed them and I'm awaiting a response.

[Raza]

I'm going to assume that 4 miligrams of forskolin on 20 mgs of extract isn't much of an issue on a scale measuring zero to five percent of one's entire diet. Still, with the effects being significant at the lowest tested dose, there's no telling.

Might be a good reason to stick to the lower end of the dose range. I had to anyway, doing too much forskolin gave me brain fog.

Edited by Raza, 02 July 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[chroncile]

So can someone update us on this stack? Is is still working for you and if so, what exactly is it doing to you? Are you more motivated? Any tolerance issues?

[Erstwhile]

So can someone update us on this stack? Is is still working for you and if so, what exactly is it doing to you? Are you more motivated? Any tolerance issues?

I've had good results on this stack initially. While I didn't quantitatively measure the improvements (i.e. the Cambridge Brain Sciences thing), it did seem that my memory was noticeably improved. The brain fog I was experiencing was very markedly reduced. I also experienced the increased benefits from caffeine that other posters have reported. Subjectively, this stack has produced the most apparent positive effects out of all the nootropics/nootropic combos I've tried so far.

However, although tolerance is not supposed to be an issue, after being on the stack for a few weeks, I seem to be experiencing a decrease in efficacy and an increase in daytime drowsiness that some others have mentioned earlier in this thread. I am not sure if this is directly attributable to the stack or because my schedule has happened to become a lot more hectic in coincidence with my starting this stack.

There was mention of cycling the stack off and taking galantamine on the weekends to attenuate these effects but I don't have galantamine so I have not tried that. I'm also concerned about the long term safety of galantamine. I'd really like to hear more on resolving this issue as this stack has otherwise been great for me..

Edited by Erstwhile, 03 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Raza]

How much forskolin are you taking? Doses of 10-25mg caused brain fog and cognitive symptoms of sleep deprivation for me, but reducing it to ~4mgs resolved this.

I've been taking the stack for a week or three now, but relatively little of that time has been spend around my mental baselines, so I'm holding off on judgment for now.

Edited by Raza, 03 July 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[health_nutty]

I've added Hesperidin Methyl Chalcone 250mg to my CILEPT stack (which includes 10mg of forskolin). The Hesperidin has causes increased daytime drowsiness. I think it has gotten worse every day I take it. Today's dose will be my last. I'll report back to see if I feel more alert tomorrow.

[Rior]

Yup, chiming in with my hesperidin report here: I noticed that although it seemed helpful for the first few days for anxiety, I'm now about 5-6 days in and it just seems to make me...dumber. That's the best word for it. My creativity, cleverness, sense of humor, all seem to be lacking quite a lot. Didn't take it earlier today for the whole day up until 2 hours ago and felt great, took it 2 hours ago and now I feel like everything about me has been reduced again. Good to have been able to at least isolate it to the hesperidin, it has almost counteracted all the benefits I usually get from the CILTEP stack. Shame :/ So I'd suggest it be avoided. Such a pain in the ass that supplements need to be cycled, would be wonderful if the benefits from individual supplements could just remain and increase with time. Meh.