UPDATE: Little to no effects of CILTEP + ginkgo and caffeine on 2nd day of trials (still drowsiness and brain fog.)
I would strongly advise against remixing
any recommended stacks when you first start them, at least for the first couple of weeks - unless you feel the need to omit something that doesn't completely cut the legs out from under the stack (omit a stimulant but not forskolin, for instance). It's been before stated in this thread that CILTEP seems prone to deactivation from other supplements, and I have to concur that I get the physical feeling that it's a bit of a delicate balance that can easily be subverted by other substances that are outside the general categories of what is recommended (PDE4 inhibitor, forskolin, caffeine, and a catecholamine precursor/stimulant).
I would consider your trials with Ginko invalid: at least for everything except to gauge how it works with Gingko. Your personal experience seems to conclude that it doesn't. So, try it as recommended. Start again, without pursuing your impulse to spice it up, and proceed from there.
Got ya--thanks. That's very informative. I added-on 1040mg of Ginseng (5% ginsenosides) today (this is 4-5 hrs after taking CILTEP+ ginkgo and caffeine. Still feeling general haziness etc. I am going to try to take CILTEP + l-tyrosine tomorrow after food and with my sups (just to be consistent throughout.) and then try it 30 min before food/supps as you suggested. I wonder why these herbs are not affecting me immediately.
I reiterate my afoeremntioned suggestion: stop remixing the stack outside of the predefined parameters.
Don't take it after food - take it before food. When you wake up, if possible. It's not assured that this (before food) is necessary, but it may be to get an optimal effect. I take it this way, it works fine, and so this is how I will continue to take it. It may work the same the other way, and it may not. I personally recommend that you assume that the fasting state(upon awakening) is always the optimal time for taking anything, especially anything designed for nootropic enhancement, until proven or recommended otherwise for a specific stack or supplement. That tip is just from my personal experience, and it's okay for others to disagree.
Thought I'd make one last update on the efficacy of the stack for me. It seems like it worked with L-tyrosine + strong tea much better than with coffee or gingko although effects were similar in nature. I took CILTEP + 500mg l-tyrosine around 1pm, then added another 500mg Tyrosine at 5pm -- similar, more pronounced effect around 5pm so it seems like Artichoke and Forskolin stay in your system for at least 4 hours. That is, you can "refuel" the potentiation via more stimulants.
In my experience, CILTEP is active for a LOT longer than 4 hours. More like 24 hours. I actually feel the stack still developing 12-16 hours later, as my heart begins to pump with noticeably stronger contractions at this point, dependent on how much I took. I experience a strong circadian rhythm enhancement that demands that I go to sleep earlier (not from general fatigue, but rather its like a switch flips in my mind that all of a sudden sends it into sleep mode - at higher artichoke doses and with at least 10 mg of forskolin). My dreams sleep state are noticeably different (deep, with limited dream recall, but the dreams that I do remember I remember perfectly), and I have experienced lasting nootropic enhancement with this the next morning at the above mentioned dose (24 hours later), something that I have not experienced with
anything that I've ever taken before, at least to this level, arguably except for the uridine that personally had diminishing returns for my specific issues. And it wasn't really an increase in nootropic quality with uridine, insomuch as it was just mental energy. With this, the enhancement has come in the form of increased quality of sensory experience. Specifically, music had a noticeably smoother quality and more impact, something that I attribute to a type of dopamine enhancement that I have not experienced outside of certain amphetamine and intermittent fasting experiences. The fact that this enhancement was specifically present only 24 hours after taking the stack, is an incredibly good and significant sign in my opinion. This delay may be a marker that informs us that this stack does have the potential to facilitate the positive permanent changes that we desire. Perhaps I'm just being optimistic.
What you have to get over is thinking of this stack as so one dimensional in its effect ie: an Adderall or stimulant substitute/reverse tolerance mechanism. It's potential is much more than that. Once you do, I think that you will better circumvent any quick impulse to jazz it up or otherwise be impatient for its results. It will lilkely work to cut down on your personal Adderall/stimulant requirment, as this has been noted, but try to think differently about it so that you can get the most out of it. In other words: think long term so that you can have the patience to take your time with the basic stack and get to know it intimately, including how it works just with its basic elements (a PDE4 inhibitor and Forskolin), and then with weak stimualnts( coffee) and then with basic precursors (Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, etc.) and then with other things and combinations if necessary.
You shouldn't be redosing
anything (tyrosine, etc.), imo, in your first month. You should be experimenting as I recommended above, and upping the quantity of dose of your
first dose if you feel that more will be necessary, way before you should be experimenting with multiple-time per day dosing. This is also a personal opinion. Take it as you will, but I feel that multiple doses per day, of anything, but especially stimulating substances, tends to cause more problems than it generally solves, even if that problem is only a potential acceleration of tolerance to that substance. An even worse result would be circadian rhythm dysregulation.
Personally, I have found that my body has needed time to adapt to this stack, and I have found that the results both change and are cumulative as one continues with it. The first time that I took Forskolin on its own, nothing happened and so it was put on the shelf for six months. The first time that I tried CILTEP, it made me so sleepy that it ruined the rest of my day. Again, it went on the shelf for three months. I tried CILTEP again, and it had a very good effect for me, although perhaps not the effect that others here are after. It lowered my introcular eye pressure and has continued to give me the feeling of normalcy as I proceed through my day without this pressure or any noticeable inflammation. The second and third days, I began to notice nootropic effects(general enhanecement of experience). Its effect on memory and motivation are still yet to be assessed, but in my case the effects in these areas seem to be
slowly accumulating. I have been taking it with alternations of a pinch of tyrosine, and nothing but caffeine while adjusting Forskolin and Artichoke quantities (Forskolin is strong stuff, btw, pay attention to your body/mind over a 24 hr period as your start with a simple stack). I am getting to know it. I actually like it better, currently, on its own (minus tyrosine), although I have noticed an increased appetite for sugar, but more experimentation is needed to truly assess this. I may very well change my mind, but it's important to get to know that character of this stack, so that you can best adjust and taylor it for your best results, even if the stack does include, for example, 250 mg of tyrosine and 5 mg of Adderall when all is said and done. You have to be ready to wait for gradual results, in my opinion, and to do what is necessary to see those results (stick to best practices) when one is expecting semi-permanent to permanenet changes in how your mind functions. Expect the results of any variation of the CILTEP stack to take at least 2 days to accurately assess, if not a little longer.
Edited by golgi1, 22 October 2012 - 04:49 PM.
