2626 replies to this topic

[Shorty]

Tineptine put me into happy sleep mode when i add it to this stack ,any interaction ?

Tinnitus and panic also attack me,but i found this stack make my writing better not sure about risk/benefit ratio .

Will give it more time for this stack so promising ,i already gaveup piracetam cause of massive depression setting in ,gluatamate receptor overexcite ,red is really red! or something about too stimulate to choline receptor ,dame i spend to much time for piracetam and not enjoy benefit of others nootropic much ,bad thing in this forum and many others.


I also take sent john wort ,hydergine ,caffeine ,tobacco additional to this stack .

It's interesting to see your progress on grasping the english language. It might not have a lot to do with your nootropic intake but your posts are more complex and a little more readable compared to several months ago.

Edited by Shorty, 03 August 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[uekte]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

I've used Modafinil for 5 consecutive days many times, both with and without variations of CILTEP.

Thanks. I'm assuming it was with positive results. I'm on holiday and was going to use some today which would have made it the 4th consecutive day, but decided I'd finally up my intake of Artichoke extract to 800mgs from my standard 400-500. I'm seemingly more alert than from my previous original stack. Tomorrow I'll have a long day driving and getting situated so might use Moda then. Thanks again. ^_^

The results are always positive, although by day 5 I would say that the Modafinil is probably only 50% as effective (at least in terms of perceivable effects). I find that 48 hours is always long enough to reset this.

My workload isn't too crazy over the summer so i'm currently using a slightly 'toned down' stack. 100mg Modafinil, 500mg Artichoke, and 500mg L-Theanine with my morning coffee and i'm pretty much unstoppable in terms of mood and focus until mid-afternoon.

Based on what i've seen here I'm really looking forward to trying out Zembrin at some point, although I have some Selegiline on the way so i'm going be giving that a fair trial first of all. I have high hopes for a combination of Modafinil, Selegiline, and CILTEP.

[magta39]

What is the consensus here? Is ALCAR better to take on empty stomach or after a meal?

[norepinephrine]

Empty stomach, as are most isolated amino acids.

[abelard lindsay]

I was recently asked over on twitter(@ciltep) if I thought caffeine was an essential part of the stack. I've been consuming caffeine in one form or another every day for many years so it's a bit of a confound as to whether it is required. At least for me, it certainly doesn't hurt the effect too much.



There's evidence that caffeine increases levels of phosphorylated CREB, which is an important transcription factor for LTP.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21907331

Caffeine treatment stimulated PKA activity, increased phospho-CREB levels, and decreased phospho-JNK and phospho-ERK expression in the striatum of APPswe mice, all of which are thought to be beneficial changes for brain function. Even caffeine-treated NT mice exhibited some of these changes in striatum. In the frontal cortex, caffeine did not significantly increase phospho-CREB and PKA activity, but significantly reduced phospho-JNK and phospho-ERK expression in both APPswe and NT mice.

However, here's another study that says that Caffeine actually inhibits cAMP increase by forskolin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1309235

Forskolin stimulation of cyclic AMP accumulation in rat brain cortex slices is markedly enhanced by endogenous adenosine.
DeLapp NW, Eckols K.
Source
CNS/GU/GI Research, Lilly Research Laboratories, Lilly Corporate Center, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, Indiana 46285.
Abstract

Stimulation of cyclic AMP (cAMP) accumulation in rat cortex slices by 1 microM forskolin (F) was markedly reduced (96%) by treatment with adenosine deaminase (ADA). The effect of ADA was progressively less at higher concentrations of F, but still inhibited the response by 50% at 100 microM F. ADA-mediated inhibition of the cAMP response to 1 microM F was completely reversed by 5 microM 2-chloroadenosine (CA), an ADA-resistant analogue. Stimulation by F (controls) and F plus CA (ADA treated) in cortex slices was significantly inhibited by 200 microM caffeine (CAF) and by 10 microM 8-phenyltheophylline. cAMP accumulation in ADA-treated cortex slices stimulated with CA at concentrations from 5 to 100 microM was markedly enhanced by 1 microM F. Neither ADA treatment nor 200 microM CAF significantly affected cAMP accumulation in slices stimulated by 1 microM vasoactive intestinal polypeptide or adenylate cyclase in membranes stimulated by 1 microM F. CAF (1 mM) did not significantly increase basal cAMP levels in cortex slices, whereas 1 mM 3-isobutyl-1-methylxanthine caused a significant 80% increase and 100 microM rolipram enhanced cAMP levels by 4.5-fold. F-stimulated cAMP accumulation (1 microM) in cortex slices was inhibited 98% by 1 mM CAF and 49% by 1 mM 3-isobutyl-1-methylxanthine, and was enhanced 2.5-fold by 100 microM rolipram. These data have been interpreted to indicate that the stimulation of cAMP accumulation in rat cortex slices by 1 microM F is predominantly due to synergistic interaction with endogenous adenosine and that the inhibition of this response by CAF is largely due to blockade of adenosine receptors.

Wow. This is pretty surprising!

Is anyone taking the stack *without* caffeine?

Here's a study that says that caffeine increases cAMP via blocking adenosine's activity on GTP-binding Protein:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1888264

Biochemical mechanism of caffeine tolerance.
Ammon HP.
Source
Department of Pharmacology, University of Tübingen, FRG.
Abstract

Most of the biological actions of caffeine are possibly mediated through its antagonistic effects toadenosine. Adenosine activates an inhibitory GTP-binding protein (Gi). One of the physiological actions of Gi is the inhibition of cAMP formation. Caffeine overcomes this action thus leading to elevation of cAMP. Firing of neurons and the release of neurotransmitters is also inhibited byadenosine. Caffeine overcomes this effect, thus producing increased CNS-activity. During long term administration of caffeine many functions of the organism develop tolerance including cardiovascular and central nervous systems. Present evidence suggests that caffeine tolerancefollowing continuous severe coffee ingestion is the response of the body against caffeine through the upregulation of adenosine receptors.

So caffeine and forskolin both raise cAMP but caffeine cancels forskolin's effects.

I have seen references to caffeine being a PDE inhibitor in the literature. I found the study that contains this finding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10049999
FullText: http://pharmrev.aspe...nt/51/1/83.long

Actions of caffeine in the brain with special reference to factors that contribute to its widespread use.

Nice chart from that study:

 cafchart.jpg   119.28KB   22 downloads

According to the chart, caffeine, at normal doses, is not a significant PDE inhibitor. it should go without saying, but please do not take high doses of caffeine as it's dangerous.

So theoretical evidence says caffeine is probably not required. Caffeine, at some dosage, may also prevent Forskolin from working. However, in my direct experience, caffeine, at levels usually between 200-400mg, does not prevent the stack from working.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 04 August 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

This is from last December, but I don't think it was posted:

Youtube Link

It's Tim Ferriss at GooglePlex telling everybody about Artichoke Extract and Forskolin. He starts talking about them about a minute or two in from where the above link links to.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 04 August 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[cylack]

Abelard, in that link you provided Tim Ferriss mentioned Huperzine A as something that could help with long term memory by increasing REM sleep. I found this one chinese study from 1997 that studied Huperzine A administration in normal teenagers with mild memory impairment. The study showed a significant increase in memory. Do you think Huperzine A could be taken with this stack? Huperzine A is a cholinesterase inhibitor primarily with some NMDA receptor antagonism. On the surface, I don't see how it could interfere with CILTEP.

http://www.chinaphar...4083/20/601.pdf

[xsiv1]

I couldn't not have caffeine in the morning with my CILTEP stack lol. This would require finding something else aside from the caffeine. Granted, I'll consume perhaps up to 200mgs in coffee before noon.

[chung_pao]

This is from last December, but I don't think it was posted:

Youtube Link

It's Tim Ferriss at GooglePlex telling everybody about Artichoke Extract and Forskolin. He starts talking about them about a minute or two in from where the above link links to.

Abelard, do you have any way of telling when you're experiencing excessive cAMP? How would one feel that the Forskolin dose is too high? I find that my visualization ability lately has been completely wrecked. The "mind's eye" is getting much less spacey, and there's not room to visualize very much data. Could this be a symptom of excessive cAMP?

If you've experienced excessive cAMP, how do you remedy it? I know Insulin is an antagonist, but I don't feel like pigging out on glucose.
The Gi-protein receptors could reverse this effect, but I find no practical way of implementing this. What have you used?

I have used CILTEP a lot without caffeine and tyrosine. But I find a release-agent such as tea really helps, even though it's just a 50 mg +/- dose of caffeine. Since it's so synergistic, it almost feels like a waste not to include some form of stimulant.

Btw: Do you know if cAMP (i.e. CILTEP) increases Acetylcholine synthesis? Seeing as it increases ACh degradation, it could be possible that the entire metabolism of ACh is increased.
I'm curious because I've experienced some weird Gastrointestinal effects from supplementing choline with CILTEP.

Edited by chung_pao, 04 August 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Abelard, do you have any way of telling when you're experiencing excessive cAMP? How would one feel that the Forskolin dose is too high? I find that my visualization ability lately has been completely wrecked. The "mind's eye" is getting much less spacey, and there's not room to visualize very much data. Could this be a symptom of excessive cAMP?

Are you still taking Phenylpiracetam? I have posted about this side effect of phenylpiracetam a bunch of times. It completely destroy's my ability to visualize things in my mind's eye.

Here's some of my old comments on phenylpiracetam:

http://www.longecity...post__p__545561

What am I talking about when I say it turns off the right brain? I try and image stream and I just can't do it when I'm on phenylpiracetam. For instance, perform this little exercise as a test: Imagine a horse race, the jockeys, the horses, the crowds, the announcer, the stands, the cheering, the noise. Depending on how good you are at imagining things, you should be able to conjure up some imagery, perhaps a narrative, even a complete small imagined movie. On phenylpiracteam this is impossible. The thoughts just evaporate. It's great for left brained stuff though (e.g Programming, Math, etc) because it pretty thoroughly prevents your right brain from interrupting any thought processes.

It's a trade off of course. That's why I use phenylpiracetam sparingly and not as a regular part of my stack.

If you've experienced excessive cAMP, how do you remedy it? I know Insulin is an antagonist, but I don't feel like pigging out on glucose.
The Gi-protein receptors could reverse this effect, but I find no practical way of implementing this. What have you used?

When I used to have bad experiences with Quercetin and Hesperitin, GABA was always a good antidote.

I have used CILTEP a lot without caffeine and tyrosine. But I find a release-agent such as tea really helps, even though it's just a 50 mg +/- dose of caffeine. Since it's so synergistic, it almost feels like a waste not to include some form of stimulant.

This has been my experience as well. I have needed less caffeine to make it through the day due to recently switching to taking ALCAR in the afternoon.

Btw: Do you know if cAMP (i.e. CILTEP) increases Acetylcholine synthesis? Seeing as it increases ACh degradation, it could be possible that the entire metabolism of ACh is increased.
I'm curious because I've experienced some weird Gastrointestinal effects from supplementing choline with CILTEP.

The only thing I know of that increases ACH synthesis is coluracetam and I've had some rough times with that one. High ACH is something that is very unpleasant. In my experience, this stack does cause some mild GI issues, mainly because of forskolin. This could also be due to some weak inhibition of the PDE4 isoforms that caused all the GI problems with the synthetic PDE4 inhibitors Roflumilast and Rolipram.

[chris106]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

I have used Modalert (generic Modafinil) as well as Wacklert (generic Armodafinil) for 14 days consecutively several times in the past. No CILTEP though, which I have yet to try.

I think Uetke definetely has a point, after a week or so the effect of clear headedness and alertness remarkeably fades.
I never tried to take days of in between though, because when I took Moda it was mostly really stressfull times with huge workloads, when I couldn't allow myself two days off because of deadlines and such.
It's also worth mentioning that for me personally Wacklert (Armodafinil) didn't work quite as well, as in that it was even more pushing (too much) and had more side effects. I also felt like tolerance set in quicker than with Modalert.

That being said, I allmost allways had at least 14 days off after 14 days of consecutive use. Not intentionally, most of the time I just couldn't afford to re-order right away.

Like I mentioned before, the last time I took Modalert I also added L-Theanine and Ashwagandha to "take the edge of it" a bit. I also for the first time paid close attention to never take it after 2pm. Both these measures seemed to delay tollerance by at least a few days. Even at the end of the 14 day period it still somewhat worked "ok".

I have, by the way, Bupropion/Wellbutrin, Selegeline and a new batch of Modalert coming my way. I of course don't intend to take them all at once, but plan on comparing how they work and if Modalert can be combined with one of the two others, as many have claimed.

I will also open a thread about my trials, since information about how well Bupropion or Selegeline work for people with actual sleeping problems are sparce.

Also sorry for the hijacking, which is now over from my part

Edited by chris106, 04 August 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[TVO]

I owe a big thanks to albert lindsay, so I'm working on a game for the iphone (1.5k lines of c++ so far) and I was having brain fog trying to fix a bug. So I poped 25mg of forskolin and 2 450mg artichoke extract pills, with ginseng. Watched a tv show for 10mins waiting for it to kick in, looked at the code again boom, the issue was clear as day to me.

[xsiv1]

What is the most consecutive days someone around here has used Modafinil with our without CILTEP?

I have used Modalert (generic Modafinil) as well as Wacklert (generic Armodafinil) for 14 days consecutively several times in the past. No CILTEP though, which I have yet to try.

I think Uetke definetely has a point, after a week or so the effect of clear headedness and alertness remarkeably fades.
I never tried to take days of in between though, because when I took Moda it was mostly really stressfull times with huge workloads, when I couldn't allow myself two days off because of deadlines and such.
It's also worth mentioning that for me personally Wacklert (Armodafinil) didn't work quite as well, as in that it was even more pushing (too much) and had more side effects. I also felt like tolerance set in quicker than with Modalert.

That being said, I allmost allways had at least 14 days off after 14 days of consecutive use. Not intentionally, most of the time I just couldn't afford to re-order right away.

Like I mentioned before, the last time I took Modalert I also added L-Theanine and Ashwagandha to "take the edge of it" a bit. I also for the first time paid close attention to never take it after 2pm. Both these measures seemed to delay tollerance by at least a few days. Even at the end of the 14 day period it still somewhat worked "ok".

I have, by the way, Bupropion/Wellbutrin, Selegeline and a new batch of Modalert coming my way. I of course don't intend to take them all at once, but plan on comparing how they work and if Modalert can be combined with one of the two others, as many have claimed.

I will also open a thread about my trials, since information about how well Bupropion or Selegeline work for people with actual sleeping problems are sparce.

Also sorry for the hijacking, which is now over from my part

Chris, first off, thanks for your experience. I think you have nothing to lose with giving CILTEP a trial. Later in the AM, some phenylpiracetam with piracetam and/or noopept with Aniracetam in the PM may also prove to be fruitful for your needs. It works wonderfully for me in that low to moderate dose range until at least 6-7pm.

Edited by xsiv1, 05 August 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Sholrak]

So, in order to make it work, we need:

- A PDE4 inhibitor (Artichoke and/or Zembrin)
- A cAMP elevator (Forskolin)
- An stimulant (coffee and/or green tea)
- A B-vitamin complex
- A Dopamine formation precursor (L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine...)


Is this correct? Are all those parts needed?

[xsiv1]

So, in order to make it work, we need:

- A PDE4 inhibitor (Artichoke and/or Zembrin)
- A cAMP elevator (Forskolin)
- An stimulant (coffee and/or green tea)
- A B-vitamin complex
- A Dopamine formation precursor (L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine...)


Is this correct? Are all those parts needed?

This is exactly what works for me to give me sharp focus and alertness until around the afternoon slump where I'll take either 350mgs NALT, or B12 & NADH or something else like caffeine and L-theanine. I incorporated those after 60 days iirc. A dopamine precursor and caffeine aren't warranted for many who have trialled CILTEP. I, and others, just found it to be more effective. You might want to try the simplest form first and add from there. There are some questions over adding caffeine to the mix add it may counteract the benefits of the forskolin, but I need a morning cup and have found no adverse effects when combining all of the aforementioned. Oh, and the B complex with some C, on an empty stomach will help that dopamine precursor do its thing more efficiently so I always add that with my multi and omega 3's in the morning.

Edited by xsiv1, 05 August 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[chris106]

Chris, first off, thanks for your experience. I think you have nothing to lose with giving CILTEP a trial.

You're welcome

It is my intention to give CILTEP a try at some point. The problem till now was that ordering even the basic stack ingredients (Artichoke + Forskolin) proved very difficult living in Germany. Ordering those from other sources than iherb (or from inside the EU to be more specific) is ridiculously expensive for some reason.
And I'm not sure if they would pass through our f***ed up customs if I ordered from iherbs or any other US source.

Hell, today customs even confiscated my co-enzym B-Vitamins (P-5-P, NADH, Methylcobalamin). Now, there's still a slim chance I might get them, but the responsible servant wasn't even able to identify what it was after I literally spelt it out to her - and now they have to" further examine" my order - it's fucking ridiculous how retarded these people are!

Sorry for the rage-mode, but sometimes I just utterly HATE my country!

Anyhow, I'll give it a try at some point in the coming months, I can only afford so many supplements at once

Edited by chris106, 05 August 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

Found another Kanna relevant study that says ingesting Kanna/Zembrin's active ingredients is more effective than chewing them.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22105579

The permeability of mesembrine across intestinal tissue was higher than that of the highly permeable reference compound caffeine (which served as a positive control for membrane permeability) both in its pure form, as well as in the form of crude extracts. The intestinal permeability of mesembranol was similar to that of caffeine, while those of mesembrenol and mesembrenone were lower than that of caffeine, but much higher than that of the poorly permeable reference compound atenolol (which served as a negative control for membrane permeability). In general, the permeabilities of the alkaloids were lower across the sublingual and the buccal tissues than across the intestinal tissue.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 06 August 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[chung_pao]

Abelard, do you have any way of telling when you're experiencing excessive cAMP? How would one feel that the Forskolin dose is too high? I find that my visualization ability lately has been completely wrecked. The "mind's eye" is getting much less spacey, and there's not room to visualize very much data. Could this be a symptom of excessive cAMP?

Are you still taking Phenylpiracetam? I have posted about this side effect of phenylpiracetam a bunch of times. It completely destroy's my ability to visualize things in my mind's eye.

Not taking Phenylpiracetam anymore, only for physical performance. It's really cool for activities using fast-twitch muscle.
However, I don't consider it very effective for many types of mental performance.

Oxiracetam seems to do the opposite: It significantly reduced my dopamine (making me less motivated and energetic) and enables me to visualize tremendous amounts of data. I'd taken it a while before bed once, and as soon as I lay down and closed my eyes, I could almost contain entire dreams and imagine detailed scenarios in my mind's-eye while still awake. Pretty cool, but way too introvert of an effect.

I found that with Zembrin, you have to be extremely careful when measuring forskolin. Since it causes complete inhibition of PDE-4, the amount of forskolin needed is so miniscule. Somewhere between 2.5-5 mg is just enough, while anything above 5 mg is too much.

I've experienced the best effects from 1 Artichoke and 1 Zembrin capsule, combined with the above amount of forskolin. There is something in Artichoke that counteracts the "dreamy", content and serotonergic effect of zembrin. My guess is that Artichoke extract activates the serotonin transporter, while Zembrin inhibits it, almost negating each others effect.

[Sholrak]

So, in order to make it work, we need:

- A PDE4 inhibitor (Artichoke and/or Zembrin)
- A cAMP elevator (Forskolin)
- An stimulant (coffee and/or green tea)
- A B-vitamin complex
- A Dopamine formation precursor (L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine...)


Is this correct? Are all those parts needed?

This is exactly what works for me to give me sharp focus and alertness until around the afternoon slump where I'll take either 350mgs NALT, or B12 & NADH or something else like caffeine and L-theanine. I incorporated those after 60 days iirc. A dopamine precursor and caffeine aren't warranted for many who have trialled CILTEP. I, and others, just found it to be more effective. You might want to try the simplest form first and add from there. There are some questions over adding caffeine to the mix add it may counteract the benefits of the forskolin, but I need a morning cup and have found no adverse effects when combining all of the aforementioned. Oh, and the B complex with some C, on an empty stomach will help that dopamine precursor do its thing more efficiently so I always add that with my multi and omega 3's in the morning.

I will purchase the basic stack, PDE4 inhibitor and forskolin, with a multi and fish oil which will always help. Then I will try it alone, with coffee, and then if needed with dopamine precursors if needed.

Regarding the efficacy in study aids, would be better artichoke or kanna/zembrin? That's the doubt I come having a time ago. Probably, I won't be able to purchase everything to test all the possibilities as I have no time and money right now to experiment.

Also, anybody knows or has tried adding a NGF source (like ALCAR, or Cerebrolysin wich I will likely use too) to eliminate the need for those extra supps as dopamine precursors, NADH, B12?

I'm concerned about LTP and Cerebrolysin interaction/overstimulation, because of the mesembrine/mesembrone SRI action could interact with Cere's qualities. There's an indication to low antidepressant doses while on Cere.

Edited by Sholrak, 06 August 2013 - 04:13 PM.

[xsiv1]

So, in order to make it work, we need:

- A PDE4 inhibitor (Artichoke and/or Zembrin)
- A cAMP elevator (Forskolin)
- An stimulant (coffee and/or green tea)
- A B-vitamin complex
- A Dopamine formation precursor (L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine...)


Is this correct? Are all those parts needed?

This is exactly what works for me to give me sharp focus and alertness until around the afternoon slump where I'll take either 350mgs NALT, or B12 & NADH or something else like caffeine and L-theanine. I incorporated those after 60 days iirc. A dopamine precursor and caffeine aren't warranted for many who have trialled CILTEP. I, and others, just found it to be more effective. You might want to try the simplest form first and add from there. There are some questions over adding caffeine to the mix add it may counteract the benefits of the forskolin, but I need a morning cup and have found no adverse effects when combining all of the aforementioned. Oh, and the B complex with some C, on an empty stomach will help that dopamine precursor do its thing more efficiently so I always add that with my multi and omega 3's in the morning.

I will purchase the basic stack, PDE4 inhibitor and forskolin, with a multi and fish oil which will always help. Then I will try it alone, with coffee, and then if needed with dopamine precursors if needed.

Regarding the efficacy in study aids, would be better artichoke or kanna/zembrin? That's the doubt I come having a time ago. Probably, I won't be able to purchase everything to test all the possibilities as I have no time and money right now to experiment.

Also, anybody knows or has tried adding a NGF source (like ALCAR, or Cerebrolysin wich I will likely use too) to eliminate the need for those extra supps as dopamine precursors, NADH, B12?

I'm concerned about LTP and Cerebrolysin interaction/overstimulation, because of the mesembrine/mesembrone SRI action could interact with Cere's qualities. There's an indication to low antidepressant doses while on Cere.

To be honest, and this is my experience, I cannot notice any significant difference between Zembrin and Artichoke Extract either in terms of focus, attentiveness or on memory tasks. Perhaps it has to do with my nightly dose of an SSRI. I tend to alternate both depending on how I feel. If I had to make a guess, the Zembrin is a wee bit more effective, but not to justify the expense from this point on. I hesitated on the Zembrin because of it's SSRI-like effect and the fact that I take one (that I should taper off from one day) because of possible contraindications..but I pulled the trigger and experience no side effects. I've used ALCAR in the afternoon with success as well as NALT. B12 & NADH have yielded less than stellar results in terms of alertness come that afternoon slump but do exhibit some effect. I'd personally just try Artichoke Extract if I had to choose. I've used 400-500mgs for several months without any desire to double the dose. That's just my experience. Others notice Zembrin to be more efficacious than AE.

[Sholrak]

Thank you very much for such a great reply

Where can I purchase the 95%+ purity forskolin product Abelard uses? (C-95 was named?)

[stephen_b]

I owe a big thanks to albert lindsay, so I'm working on a game for the iphone (1.5k lines of c++ so far) and I was having brain fog trying to fix a bug. So I poped 25mg of forskolin and 2 450mg artichoke extract pills, with ginseng. Watched a tv show for 10mins waiting for it to kick in, looked at the code again boom, the issue was clear as day to me.

What kind of ginseng are you using and how has it worked for you with the stack?

[cylack]

How long does it take for the CILTEP stack to work? The fist two days on the stack (2 Now artichokes, 5 mg Forskolin, B50 pill) I felt nothing, but today something definitely clicked; however, I added Biacalin 200mg last night before I went to sleep and Niacinamide this morning to my stack so maybe that's what made the difference. My dual n-back jumped from 8 yesterday to 10 today. I've never hit 10 before. I feel really focused with considerably less ADHD tendencies. Going to stick with this for a few more days before adding in Huperzine A to the mix.

[TVO]

I owe a big thanks to albert lindsay, so I'm working on a game for the iphone (1.5k lines of c++ so far) and I was having brain fog trying to fix a bug. So I poped 25mg of forskolin and 2 450mg artichoke extract pills, with ginseng. Watched a tv show for 10mins waiting for it to kick in, looked at the code again boom, the issue was clear as day to me.

What kind of ginseng are you using and how has it worked for you with the stack?

I used Panax Ginseng, x2 600mg pills. Works quite well when I start getting sleepy.

[swen]

I've ordered the ingredients, will report back of course

[swen]

Tried my first day:

Thanks abelard lindsay for making this thread, tried my first day with succes


5mg forskolin
2x 450 artichoke extracts NOW
1500mg L-Phenylalanine
ALCAR (already took this)

It was very subtle, but certainly felt effects. Like a meditation kind of state, and worked an whole day on my thesis (usually i quit after half a day, because i'm getting tired).

I know it's not necessary but redosed in the and became extremely aware of sounds, something annoying like someone drilling etc. Probably won't redose again.

Couple questions:

- Can I take this in the morning with NAC and Vitamin C with no problem in the morning?
- I've read the topic about combining racetams, does this stack make the effects of racetam more stronger (so is it wise to reduce dosage of racetam)
- What is a good amount of caffeine to take over a day? And when is it too much?

[silverbear]

I recently tried aniracetam and choline with no joy. Recommended doses made me spacey and gave me headaches, reducing the doses helped with the spaceyness but the headaches persisted. My situation is that I'm a 52 year old sales professional with no attention issues or anxiety, depression etc. My main goal is productivity and motivation - I really don't need to study for long periods of time in my line of work.

For now I'm simply taking L-theanine with my coffee in the morning. I also take Tongkat, DHEA, lions mane, ginko, fish oil, multi, b-12 and phosphatidylserine. I really like the l-theanine and caffeine combination - it has proved to be a subtle yet effective mechanism for getting things done throughout my day and absolutely no side effects. The only thing I notice is that my memory could use some improvement - I find that I can't always recall names or words like I would like to.

I'd like to try ciltep to see if that improves the memory issues but don't want to sacrifice productivity like aniracetam/choline did to me (I know this isn't the case for others). Plus I'd like to improve my memory. My only concern is if might affect me the way the aniracetam did or if the effect is one that takes away from my productivity instead of enhancing it.

I want to confirm from users that there is a motivational lift from ciltep and memory enhancement. I would also ask if based on my situation is there any modifications to the basic stack one would see as beneficial.

[magta39]

I still have been having problems with upregulation of ACHE, resulting in energy drop and sleepiness, especially if taking CILTEP on consecutive days. I have tried ALCAR and galantamine, but still having some problems. So today I tried cutting my forskolin dose in half again, I was taking 3mgs, today tried 1.5mgs sublingually with 500mgs artichoke and 500mgs ALCAR this morning on empty stomach...this seems to be my sweet spot for forskolin dosing, energy and focus all day with no letdown...I did take another 500mgs artichoke after lunch and this seemed to energize me even more. For dopamine support I use coffee and theanine. I will try this on consecutive days next week and see what the results are.

[Godof Smallthings]

I recently tried aniracetam and choline with no joy. Recommended doses made me spacey and gave me headaches, reducing the doses helped with the spaceyness but the headaches persisted. My situation is that I'm a 52 year old sales professional with no attention issues or anxiety, depression etc. My main goal is productivity and motivation - I really don't need to study for long periods of time in my line of work.

Sounds like you may be another choline dominant person who has been persuaded to start taking a racetam with choline, without first trying it without. To see if that is correct, if you still have some ani left, take a smaller dose of aniracetam, and absolutely no choline supplementation, and see if that was not the actual source of your headaches, rather than the aniracetam.

[silverbear]

I recently tried aniracetam and choline with no joy. Recommended doses made me spacey and gave me headaches, reducing the doses helped with the spaceyness but the headaches persisted. My situation is that I'm a 52 year old sales professional with no attention issues or anxiety, depression etc. My main goal is productivity and motivation - I really don't need to study for long periods of time in my line of work.

Sounds like you may be another choline dominant person who has been persuaded to start taking a racetam with choline, without first trying it without. To see if that is correct, if you still have some ani left, take a smaller dose of aniracetam, and absolutely no choline supplementation, and see if that was not the actual source of your headaches, rather than the aniracetam.

No, I did try it for a few days without choline as I was waiting for the choline to arrive in the mail. First day or two, no headaches but then they appeared - mild but annoying. Added the choline when it arrive and it helped a bit but did not eliminate.

Edited by silverbear, 09 August 2013 - 01:49 PM.