2844 replies to this topic

[1thoughtMaze1]

Heck, yes!
As I posted in another thread regarding 'what noots work':

Memory: improved
Focus: improved
Overall cognitive ability: improved
Motivation: improved
Energy levels: improved
Depression: improved
Sleep debt: mediated (short-term / dose related effect)
Skin health: improved
Muscle tone and development: improved
Gradual weight loss: observed

Other known effects: efficiently reverses/repairs damage from Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Mediates side-effects from neuroleptics and anti-depressants.

Additionally, every family member who has tried it, now swears by it and has incorporated it into their daily regime. If someone else hadn't already patented these ratios years ago, I'd be giving up my day job and starting a company selling the next 'smart-drink' on the market - one that actually works.

Unless you are massively sleep deprived, set your expectations - don't be anticipating instant results. I'd allow 1-2 weeks.
If you are sleep deprived, you'll have near-immediate relief from the associated brain fog.

Ok thank Mr. I got to get my hands on some Uridine... This look promising!

[1thoughtMaze1]

Also no one seems to have mentioned Amazon as a good source for, well everything, including uridine

[MrHappy]

Actually, it's probably the most efficient treatment for PD I've seen. You'll be doing them a big favour. Currently, none of the PD treatment options available are viable long-term and this would give them their life and freedom back.

Most of the current treatments cause anxiety, mood swings, confusion, nausea, lead to dementia, dyskinesia (uncontrolled muscle spasms) and do nothing to actually treat the disease progression. The prospect of this hanging over their head is probably already causing some fear of the future for them. You can help a lot, here.

My advice is to print out the research papers and patent information on this thread. Your family member would then be able to take it to discuss with an open-minded neuro - as the best treatment option would involve them ceasing their current meds (eg. L-dopa.) This is a replacement therapy, not a supplement for an existing one.

While this is a 'young' treatment, it's the only one that will actually treat the disease progression and reverse the damage, short of stem cell therapy - which is still some way down the track.

The other problem that needs to be treated is the existing protein plaques - bacopa has been shown to do this quite well.

Once their brain is back to normal, there is also some merit in addressing the original cause of PD. It'll involve some blood tests. Take a look at 'amantadine', which is an existing approved treatment option for some Parkinson's sufferers. Interestingly, according to the literature, it is 'unclear' why amantadine works for the early stages of PD and there are all sorts of wild hypotheses that ignore the obvious one - it's primarily used as an antiviral treatment for other diseases and crosses the blood-brain-barrier efficiently.

Alzheimer's disease has already been linked to the cold-sore virus, HSV-1, which 80-90% of people over 50 have without visible symptoms.

The mechanism is pretty clear - with age, the amino acid transport mechanism across the BBB becomes less efficient. L-lysine is normally balanced with L-arginine. However, the brain synthesizes L-arginine directly and uses it to prevent the aggregation of proteins. The l-lysine deficiency makes the brain an attractive habitat for HSV-1. HSV-1 normally lies dormant in the ganglia and travels along nerve fibers to begin replication in epithelial proteins, using L-arginine as the basic building block. The byproduct of this replication is nitric oxide synthase. NOS is normally used as the chemical messenger that induces apoptosis in neurons, so the viral replication is (indirectly) responsible for the damage. As the virus has also already stolen the L-arginine reserves, there is insufficient available to prevent the proteins from clumping, hence the formation of amyloid plaques in AD.

Despite this being current knowledge for AD, there has been little to no attempt to research if the same scenario is occuring with PD. There is some early research from circa 1995 that demonstrated this as 'chronic relapsing herpes encephalitis' and reversed the parkinsonian symptoms entirely in the patient when treated with acyclovir and amantadine. This was largely ignored by medical circles in the day and hasn't been followed up since the link between AD and HSV-1 has been discovered.

To my mind, the major difference between AD and PD is mostly the location in the brain where the virus begins replication - if it's in the hippocampus, it's classified AD. If it's in the striatum, it's PD. Most patients have symptoms of both diseases. Both have a-synuclein and B-amyloid as the aggregated protein plaques.

You may have realised by this point that this particular topic is a particular interest of mine, so feel free to PM me if you're after any other research material or information.

[chrono]

Actually, it's probably the most efficient treatment for PD I've seen. You'll be doing them a big favour. Currently, none of the PD treatment options available are viable long-term and this would give them their life and freedom back.

My advice is to print out the research papers and patent information on this thread. Your family member would then be able to take it to discuss with an open-minded neuro - as the best treatment option would involve them ceasing their current meds (eg. L-dopa.) This is a replacement therapy, not a supplement for an existing one.

While this is a 'young' treatment, it's the only one that will actually treat the disease progression and reverse the damage, short of stem cell therapy - which is still some way down the track.

There's a lot of inaccuracy in the previous post, but if Mr. Happy is that sure he's found a way to completely reverse PD, it's probably not worth arguing about.

I did want to point out that there have been no studies in human PD patients showing that Uridine is as miraculous as claimed here (in fact, none at all). Given this alone, taking someone off their current meds to try it out could potentially be very harmful to that person. As in, potentially fatal.

The patent mentioned earlier in this thread conducted a study on 20 psychotic patients, some of whom had tremor, and in the very brief explanation of results said it completely reversed these symptoms in 10 days. Ignoring the fact that a patent is not a study, this finding is not the same as reversing advanced PD in elderly patients. This patent is 21 years old, and these miraculous results have not been duplicated in other studies (or even patents) that I could find. Make of that what you will.

This rodent study does suggest that there's a good chance Uridine + DHA could be helpful. But a 20 year old patent and a rodent study will probably not convince any doctor in the world, especially if you suggest it as a replacement. It may be a beneficial addition to current therapy, but I haven't done enough research to suggest if there are any potential conflicts in other mechanisms.

[tintinet]

Also no one seems to have mentioned Amazon as a good source for, well everything, including uridine

My search there didn't turn up any cost effective sources, but perhaps I'm missing something.

[MrHappy]

Chronos, please chime in with any input you have on inaccuracies. I am genuinely interested in your views on this, even if it's a PM.

I did mention this was to be discussed with their neuro, particularly because of the existing meds.

Bear in mind that the importance of this aspect of medical nutrition is only just making its way into mainstream human clinical trials now. I have no idea why that patent was shelved by the company for such a long period of time, but everyone is only just catching up now. Odd, to say the least - although nutrition as a possible cure for diseases hasn't been popular in certain circles..

Rat model:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2592845/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18761383
http://www.springerl...77vv431617592t/
..and of course all of the previous rat studies mentioned earlier in the thread.

Commercial investigations:
http://www.wellstatt...isto-neuro.html
Souvenaid / Fortasyn Connect

Patents: (human trials mentioned)
http://www.patentgen...nt/4960759.html
http://www.patsnap.c...05112635A2.html
http://www.google.co...id=NgUkAAAAEBAJ <- references other patents on Uridine, also.

Edited by MrHappy, 22 November 2011 - 01:01 AM.

[MrHappy]

This rodent study does suggest that there's a good chance Uridine + DHA could be helpful. But a 20 year old patent and a rodent study will probably not convince any doctor in the world, especially if you suggest it as a replacement. It may be a beneficial addition to current therapy, but I haven't done enough research to suggest if there are any potential conflicts in other mechanisms.

<chuckle> Nothing's ever certain, but the biggest issue I see is that when the repair process begins, if the patient is still taking dopamine replacement or agonist therapies, they could end up with excess dopamine and temporary dyskinesia. Alternatively, best case scenario, because of the existing meds, the dopamine re-balance is based around a tolerance for the dopamine provided by the previous medication and the repair process by the uridine combo is slower or ineffective.

Edited by MrHappy, 22 November 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[chrono]

Yes, I did see that you mentioned people should consult with their neurologist, which is why my head didn't explode However, the problem is that you're making incredibly strong claims about the ability of a drug to treat and reverse a disease, based on incredibly weak evidence. You're saying that it will "give them their life and freedom back," that a replacement therapy for L-DOPA is the best way to use this, that it will treat the cause of this disorder and is the only thing short of gene therapy that will do so, that it will get their brains "back to normal," and that amantadine will somehow cure PD if caught early or reversed by uridine. None of these things have been shown to be true, and are certainly not supported by anything that's been posted in this thread. The fact that the proper studies haven't been done is not a good reason to make these claims with the certainty that you do, either.

In your last reply, you posted twice both the patent and mouse study I mentioned. The other links don't really say much that suggest this is a miraculous (or even effective) treatment for PD. I didn't see any other human trials mentioned for PD, but feel free to post the actual references. I also looked through the other studies earlier in this thread (again), and see nothing much beyond these two studies, either. Nor in the studies earlier in this thread. There are literally dozens of neurogenics, and several which are probably a lot stronger than uridine (e.g. cerebrolysin, which is composed of CNTF and other growth factor peptide fragments). These have not cured Parkinson's.

Again, the problem is that your evidence does not come anywhere close to supporting your expansive claims. As I said, uridine could be helpful, but there are a zillion things that should be helpful, and either fall flat or don't cure the disease entirely.

As for what you said about AD and HSV, it is not the "current knowledge," as in the generally-accepted explanation of the primary cause, as you implied. Genetics and many other minor mechanisms are involved (tau tangles, for instance).

[1thoughtMaze1]

Also no one seems to have mentioned Amazon as a good source for, well everything, including uridine

My search there didn't turn up any cost effective sources, but perhaps I'm missing something.

Well if by cost effective you mean free than yes you are definitely missing something

[MrHappy]

OK, that's fair enough. Let me revise my stance accordingly -

Based on the volumes of research papers I have read, which includes rat models, patents by pharmaceutical companies and clinical trials in humans, both for Parkinsonian symptoms and Alzheimer's, if I was diagnosed tomorrow with PD or AD, I would personally be exploring this as a treatment before I went near the status quo. I'm sorry if I get excited about it, asI believe, quite strongly, that this is the next big thing for neurodegenerative diseases.

Here's some of the PD + HSV-1/2 articles and also the use of acyclovir and/or amantadine in one of the case studies:
http://web.ebscohost...h&AN=9710130824
http://www.mendeley....pes-connection/


I'm aware of the APOE-4 allele and significance with AD. I'm also aware of tangled tau proteins. There seems to be an ongoing argument as to whether the tangled tau proteins cause dementia or are just a symptom.
None of these scenarios is mutually exclusive to HSV-1 as a cause. HSV-1 has been located in the protein deposits. It's also quite probable that a multi-factorial approach to the cause of AD/PD,etc may be required. There are a number of similar or related virii and other pathogens that could cause this scenario.

[MrHappy]

Google search for Alzheimer's + HSV-1 = 228.000 results:
http://www.google.co...lient=firefox-a

HSV-1 + APOE-4 (as usual, individual genetic expression influences disease progression):
http://www.hindawi.c...ad/2010/140539/
http://www.alzforum....for/Smalheiser/
http://jvi.asm.org/c...0/11/5383.short


Errf.. anyway, while I don't want to fragment this thread much, it is very much related to this regime. <ponder>

[MrHappy]

Look what I just came across:
http://www.bayho.com/p/846192.html

[JChief]

I read this article about the Souvenaid trails

http://www.alzforum....ail.asp?id=1909

It looks helpful but far from a cure. Thanks to both of you for your input.

[JChief]

To play devil's advocate I wanted to share the following critique of the Souvenaid trail:


Souvenaid Study Problematic

http://bmartinmd.com...roblematic.html

[JChief]

Look what I just came across:
http://www.bayho.com/p/846192.html

Thanks! While the jury is still out for more serious diseases I sure will give this a try for mood support. Seems fairly low risk.

[MrHappy]

To play devil's advocate I wanted to share the following critique of the Souvenaid trail:


Souvenaid Study Problematic

http://bmartinmd.com...roblematic.html

I believe that was an objection to the first study, given when it was written. The 2nd study (just completed - Nov 2011) was done across 27 locations, probably to address claims of bias.

[MrHappy]

Here you go - 2nd stage results:

http://www.dementiat...eimers-disease/
http://aboutalz.com/?p=1555

[JChief]

Very interesting no doubt. Since most of the recent news has surrounded Alzheimer's I imagine the correlation with regard to Parkinson's has to do with uridine's role as a supposed mitochondrial catalyst. With that in mind, I wonder if Pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ) would be a welcome addition to a preventative regimen. The combination of choline/uridine/DHA would appear to help grow new synapses in the brain and improve memory. PQQ is neuroprotective and is especially effective in neutralizing superoxide and hydroxyl radicals, two prominent causes of mitochondrial dysfunction.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17268846
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9151238

Needless to say as soon as everyone stops spamming the Buy Now button from my preferred supplement vendor I will purchase some TAU, EPA/DHA for brain health. Great thread.

[MrHappy]

That last vendor link I posted has TAU for $20, shipped. I bought a few.. Seems to be plenty in stock.

[lourdaud]

That last vendor link I posted has TAU for $20, shipped. I bought a few.. Seems to be plenty in stock.

Think that vendor is reliable? Their logo is just so ugly!
They got anything else you found interesting, btw? Might as well order some other stuff while I'm at it..

[nito]

Yes, I did see that you mentioned people should consult with their neurologist, which is why my head didn't explode However, the problem is that you're making incredibly strong claims about the ability of a drug to treat and reverse a disease, based on incredibly weak evidence. You're saying that it will "give them their life and freedom back," that a replacement therapy for L-DOPA is the best way to use this, that it will treat the cause of this disorder and is the only thing short of gene therapy that will do so, that it will get their brains "back to normal," and that amantadine will somehow cure PD if caught early or reversed by uridine. None of these things have been shown to be true, and are certainly not supported by anything that's been posted in this thread. The fact that the proper studies haven't been done is not a good reason to make these claims with the certainty that you do, either.

In your last reply, you posted twice both the patent and mouse study I mentioned. The other links don't really say much that suggest this is a miraculous (or even effective) treatment for PD. I didn't see any other human trials mentioned for PD, but feel free to post the actual references. I also looked through the other studies earlier in this thread (again), and see nothing much beyond these two studies, either. Nor in the studies earlier in this thread. There are literally dozens of neurogenics, and several which are probably a lot stronger than uridine (e.g. cerebrolysin, which is composed of CNTF and other growth factor peptide fragments). These have not cured Parkinson's.

Again, the problem is that your evidence does not come anywhere close to supporting your expansive claims. As I said, uridine could be helpful, but there are a zillion things that should be helpful, and either fall flat or don't cure the disease entirely.

As for what you said about AD and HSV, it is not the "current knowledge," as in the generally-accepted explanation of the primary cause, as you implied. Genetics and many other minor mechanisms are involved (tau tangles, for instance).

You killed my hopes :(

[tintinet]

Also no one seems to have mentioned Amazon as a good source for, well everything, including uridine

My search there didn't turn up any cost effective sources, but perhaps I'm missing something.

Well if by cost effective you mean free than yes you are definitely missing something

Even close to competitive, is what I'm missing.

[MrHappy]

You killed my hopes :(

Chrono is right that there need to be more human studies for PD, however, I'm still personally convinced and so are the companies that have filed patents for it.

There is way too much data available which shows it to work for various PD models, including the existing human studies, to dismiss or ignore it - it's just that more studies are needed for it to be considered 'absolutely proven' in humans. It's young.

However, there is also *zero* data available that counters the previous studies' claims of success in both humans and rats.

Everything so far is *significantly* positive for all PD models it has been tested on.

MPTP induced model (posted earlier):
http://www.springerl...77vv431617592t/

Stimulates ATP:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/15654852/
Which is needed to support axonal transport, an issue in PD:
http://www.molecular.../content/4/1/26

Potassium evoked dopamine release with uridine and enhanced neurite outgrowth:
http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=17035532

...and of course the human study/patent mentioned again where patients who had induced Parkinson's from damaging their brain with neuroleptics. They had 2-3 *MONTHS*, not days, with no Parkinsonian symptoms after 2 weeks of dosing uridine, replacing their existing PD medication:
http://www.patentgen...nt/4960759.html <- last section of the page

A more recent patent specific to PD and uridine:
http://www.patentsto...376/claims.html

You have to wonder why there haven't been more published clinical trials for uridine, given how successful it has been. Then again, you'd have to wonder the same thing for Alzheimer's -it's only the small 'start-ups' running trials for TAU/UMP+DHA. The research has all come from universities. None of the big pharmaceutical companies have published anything in this area. <tinfoil hat> Conflict of interests, perhaps? </tinfoil hat>

[Hebbeh]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

[MrHappy]

That last vendor link I posted has TAU for $20, shipped. I bought a few.. Seems to be plenty in stock.

Think that vendor is reliable? Their logo is just so ugly!
They got anything else you found interesting, btw? Might as well order some other stuff while I'm at it..

We'll see - the order process went smoothly and they had both paypal and google checkout options, so I have protection if it doesn't show up or is not what was advertised.

Grape seed extract and bacopa, if they have them (and you don't).. but those are commonly available anyway. Alpha-gpc, perhaps?

[MrHappy]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

Exactly.
Mind you, TAU / PN401 falls into that category, it's just whether it offers significant benefit over UMP that decides if it's a commercial success - it needs to be competitive with the natural product (UMP). At $15 for a 2 month supply, it won't make trillions in revenue like eg. a monoclonal treatment that costs $7000+/month to insurance companies.

[health_nutty]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

Actually they are working on a more bioavailable form of uridine. They can patent that.

[Hebbeh]

That last vendor link I posted has TAU for $20, shipped. I bought a few.. Seems to be plenty in stock.

Think that vendor is reliable? Their logo is just so ugly!
They got anything else you found interesting, btw? Might as well order some other stuff while I'm at it..

We'll see - the order process went smoothly and they had both paypal and google checkout options, so I have protection if it doesn't show up or is not what was advertised.

Grape seed extract and bacopa, if they have them (and you don't).. but those are commonly available anyway. Alpha-gpc, perhaps?

I used Bayho a year or 2 ago and had no problems...they were legit then.

[Hebbeh]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

Actually they are working on a more bioavailable form of uridine. They can patent that.

Actually, I don't think it can be much more bioavailable than regular uridine under the tongue...I've been using 250-300mg uridine dissolved under the tongue twice a day for the last 9 days with impressive results...a very noticeable increase in mental energy (which I've been lacking for a long time) and more productivity. It took 5 or 6 days to kick in. I did double dose a couple times the last couple days and that is probably over kill as now I've developed very noticeable tinnitus today...the only other time I had tinnitus like this was about 6-8 months ago when taking very high dose Astragalus extract + high dose Astragalus root powder. From my research at that time, the tinnitus could have been due to nerve regrowth. I ended up stopping the Astragalus due to other issues.

[chrono]

There is way too much data available which shows it to work for various PD models, including the existing human studies, to dismiss or ignore it - it's just that more studies are needed for it to be considered 'absolutely proven' in humans. It's young.

However, there is also *zero* data available that counters the previous studies' claims of success in both humans and rats.

Yes, a lack of conflicting data is another consequence of 1 study in rats, and none in humans. A patent is not a study: it's written by someone who wants to sell you something, who is not required to tell you the truth if they can get away with not doing so. And the one you keep citing isn't even a good patent; it doesn't give us data, they just summarize their "findings" in a few sentences, with next to no details about the methodology. If anything, it is suggestive, but is not a reliable demonstration by any stretch.

And as far as this not getting any attention because it's not patentable, remember that L-DOPA has been the gold standard in treating PD for over 30 years, and there are probably thousands of studies on its link with PD. Pharmaceutical companies do not control all of medical research, they just profit from it.

And again, there are many levels of probability between dismissal and 'absolutely proven.' This is somewhere in the middle. Implying that we just need a few morestudies to be absolutely sure is misleading. There are a few studies showing success in PD models (which weren't even conducted in primates), ATP in vitro, and a larger body of research showing neurogenesis and some effect on dopamine. The last patent you posted isn't even a study, it's just someone saying that uridine can be used to treat PD because it has an effect on dopamine. I agree it has potential, but this handful of references isn't "way too much" data for anything, even by my loose experimental research standards. It's a solidly preclinical hypothesis regarding one of the most difficult diseases to treat, and going from the studies here to efficacy in humans is a huge leap. I too hope it pans out.


As far as HSV-1 goes, mentioning there are 218,000 hits in google is irrelevant, because google is as likely to use an OR boolean as AND. A more telling figure is that in pubmed there are 61 papers for AD and 17 for PD which even mention the two subjects together, and the few studies you've posted are pretty much the only ones which suggest it's a primary factor in the etiology. Then there are papers like this which found HSV-1 DNA in only 2.9% and 17.5% of AD and PD patients, respectively. There could be a strong link, but again, it's a huge leap to imply that it's the current consensus of understanding. But I'm not sure why you think this theory about the pathogenesis of AD and PD is particularly important to this thread, as uridine doesn't seem to be involved with any of those mechanisms you mentioned, as far as I've read here...

As for the idea about uridine replacing L-DOPA therapy: L-DOPA is one biosynthetic step away from dopamine, and it's usually coadministered with a medication that will allow it to cross the BBB quite effectively. I doubt uridine will be able to effect as much dopamine release as that, and even if it does, there's still the issue of whether there are enough dopamine precursors to maintain the heightened release, and if the release will be in the appropriate parts of the brain. If anything, a slightly lower dose of L-DOPA might be warranted, but complete replacement seems unfounded given the current data.

Also, I'm wondering who the companies are who have patented this substance for treating PD. Or were you referring to the two patents you've posted a few times recently?

Edited by chrono, 23 November 2011 - 04:44 AM.