2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Hmm.. well, the 25g tub of UMP is $50 from superiornutraceuticals.com. They also sell through ebay - where I got my product originally.

That's 25c/day at normal oral doses. 2.5c/day sublingually.

TAU - still waiting on delivery. I've seen different figures mentioned, but no personal experience with it yet.

Edited by MrHappy, 04 December 2011 - 10:59 PM.

[telight]

I'm not sure if the 4x more bioavailable sublingually is accurate, from personal/subjective experience. Seems a *lot* higher.

I was referring to the difference between the TAU and UMP(regular) varieties of uridine. It is in fact 7 times more bioavailable in mice, but only 4 times more in humans.

Edited by telight, 04 December 2011 - 10:26 PM.

[MrHappy]

Yeah - oops. I re-read that and edited my message, probably as you were typing that. (multitasking here at work).

[tintinet]

Dunno. I've been using it sublingually today, at least (300 mg UMP, BID). Haven't really noticed anything.

[Hebbeh]

Dunno. I've been using it sublingually today, at least (300 mg UMP, BID). Haven't really noticed anything.

Did you notice anything when taking it orally? Perhaps you don't have any cognitive issues that it can assist with or fix? When I use sublingually, I get a most definite feeling of clarity, focus, and wellbeing...it definitely gives me subtle mental energy throughout the day...which I've been lacking for a long time so it is very noticeable for me. And MrHappy gave a description of sublingual which sounded very similar to my experiences. However, I had to use UMP for 5-7 days before it "kicked in" and I started to experience the benefits.

[tintinet]

I've only been taking it for a week or so. I started at 300 mg UMP and 250 mg CDP choline QD and more recently BID. I think I do notice a subtle sense of improved well being, at least. But I've not really noticed any acute effects from taking it sublingually, unless I'm just not really appreciating them, so far.

[MrHappy]

The biggest short-term effects I've noticed involve mediating the brain fog of sleep deprivation and an overall feeling of well being and energy. Sublingually, I gain more focus and drive.

The major 'noticable' effects seem to revolve around modulating dopamine deviations and promoting well-being.

Long term usage will promote neurogenesis and you'll see continuous cognitive improvements. I am assuming you are taking adequate supplies of DHA/EPA and b group vitamins, etc.

[bacopa]

guys source for sublingual ump? this might help with any potential stomach problems which are better now. Mr. Kitty are you secretly hiding UMP sources from us?

no seriously I'm doing better today, the brain is an amazingly resiliant organ, I can't fathom how much abuse mine's taken...anyway, Mr. Happy kitty, what would your advice be sublingual ump, or TAU? I haven't been following TAU, I have no idea what that is, is it another form of UMP? Any rational person listening to the typical imminst convo would think we were all crazy. But the world has become a bunch of babble talk. This same kind of abbreviation analytic thinking goes on in just about all specialty forums. IT is a uniquely human thing to enjoy using buzzwords, and killing time problem solving! I love nothing better then if I could fix my own brain, it's kind of more important than any other hobby.

[JChief]

TAU is 4-7x more bioavailable than UMP. The UMP powder is what you'd be taking sublingual so just toss er under your tongue and you're ready to roll. TAU is Triacetyluridine.

[Hebbeh]

I've found TAU doesn't dissolve or seem to absorb under the tongue, unlike UMP. And 25mg TAU doesn't give the same effect as 250mg sublingual UMP.

[MrHappy]

I'm still waiting for my TAU. :( Apparently arriving next week - something about low stock. <chuckle>

I'll also be doing testing on subjective potency. If it's not as potent as we've read, next purchase will be a 1Kg tub of UMP from Alibaba or China directly. Probably followed by a lab test..

D - just stick the UMP powder under your tongue (open the caps first) and try to keep your tongue down flat, to stop your saliva washing it down your throat. 10 mins later you should be done.

[spider]

I'm still waiting for my TAU. :( Apparently arriving next week - something about low stock. <chuckle>

lol

I'll also be doing testing on subjective potency. If it's not as potent as we've read, next purchase will be a 1Kg tub of UMP from Alibaba or China directly. Probably followed by a lab test..

If I remember correctly, a few years ago the founder/owner of SmartPowders used to visit this forum regularly. He asked forummembers if they had suggestions regarding nootropical substances which he could add as new items to his stock. Do we have a great suggestion for him now, or what?

Perhaps someone could send him an email (SP) or and PB (here), maybe he is interested and able to offer good quality uridine in bulk for a reasonable price.

[MrHappy]

Probably worth following up!

Edited by MrHappy, 05 December 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[MrHappy]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11322706

This review deals with the concept of sleep mechanism based on our uridine receptor theory. It is well established that uridine is one of the sleep-promoting substances, we have, therefore, synthesized new types of hypnotic compounds from oxopyrimidine nucleosides. Their mechanism of action in CNS depressant effects is elucidated based on the receptor theory. In this study, structure-activity relationship for CNS depressant properties, sleep-promoting effects, interaction with certain CNS receptors, and receptor binding assay of uridine derivatives as oxopyrimidine nucleoside were investigated. In the studies of structure-activity relationship of N3-substituted uridine, we found for the first time that both N3-benzyluridine and N3-phenacyluridine synthesized exhibited potent hypnotic activity (loss of righting reflex) by intracerebroventicular injection in mice. Moreover, certain derivatives of these compounds possessed synergistic effects with barbiturate and benzodiazepine, and decreased in spontaneous activity, motor incoordination, and antianxiety effects in mice. Especially, N3-phenacyluridine markedly enhanced pentobarbital- and diazepam-induced sleep by 6- and 70-fold, respectively. However, N3-benzyluracil and N3-phenacyluracil that have no ribose moiety did not possess any hypnotic activity, indicating specific effects of nucleoside derivatives. Effects of N3-benzyluridine on natural sleep in rats were thus examined. N3-Benzyluridine also possessed the sleep promoting effect assessed by electrocorticogram at the dose of 10 pmol. For elucidating the mechanism of action of N3-phenacyluridine, the interactions of this compound with benzodiazepine, GABA, 5-HT, or adenosine receptors were also investigated. Although the pharmacological activity of N3-phenacyluridine was high, the affinities to benzodiazepine, GABA, 5-HT, and adenosine receptors were quite low. [3H]N3-Phenacyluridine concentration-dependently bound to synaptic membrane prepared from the bovine brain. The Scatchard analysis revealed a single component of the binding site. This binding site is proposed here as a novel receptor called "uridine receptor" for hypnotic activity of the uridine derivatives. The rank order of the distribution of these specific binding sites was found to be striatum > thalamus > cerebral cortex > cerebellum > mid brain > medulla oblongata in the rat brain. In the metabolic study of N3-phenacyluridine, we found that this compound was exclusively metabolized to N3-(S)-(+)-alpha-hydroxy-beta-phenethyluridine, but not the ®- form, in mice. N3-(S)-(+)-alpha-Hydroxy-beta-phenylethyluridine possessed not only strong hypnotic activity but also a high affinity to the uridine receptor of synaptic membranes, while the ®-isomer was low in both activities. Racemic mixture was shown to be intermediate for pharmacological effects of the compounds. These studies which used ®- or (S)-isomer indicate that uridine binding site or uridine receptor, exists in the CNS and plays some role in sleep regulation in mammals as one of the triggering steps in inducing hypnotic activity. It is suggested that uridine is released from steps of nucleic acid-nucleic protein biosynthesis (catabolism), and reaches the binding sites in the areas of the brain which regulate natural sleep. The uridine dissociated from the receptor is then utilized for the synthesis of nucleic acid (anabolism). We propose here that the induction of sleep may be mediated by uridine through uridine receptor in the CNS, although the structure of uridine receptor is not yet elucidated.

.. I found this interesting and seems to echo my observations.

I am significantly more mentally alert / clear headed. The mediation of neural sleep debt effects is probably one of the more noticable attributes.

[MrHappy]

Uridine for treating type I and type II bipolar disorder:
http://www.faqs.org/...app/20090054370

... apparently as a cure, too.. if I'm reading this correctly:

[0087]A general dosage is between 3 and 100 mg/kg/day, e.g., which can be 0.25 to 7 grams (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 1 grams) per patient per day. Oral tablets of triacetyl uridine can be used. The daily dosage is administered on an ongoing basis until symptoms subside.

[JChief]

Uridine for treating type I and type II bipolar disorder:
http://www.faqs.org/...app/20090054370

... apparently as a cure, too.. if I'm reading this correctly:

[0087]A general dosage is between 3 and 100 mg/kg/day, e.g., which can be 0.25 to 7 grams (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 1 grams) per patient per day. Oral tablets of triacetyl uridine can be used. The daily dosage is administered on an ongoing basis until symptoms subside.

Very very interesting. So for bipolar treatment @ 3 mg/kg for a ~170lb person would be appx 225mg per day or 9 x 25mg TAU capsules per day. Duly noted. ($$)

[MrHappy]

Or possibly 10x less, sublingually.

(null)

[JChief]

Or possibly 10x less, sublingually.

(null)

Possibly. But I've found that TAU doesn't seem to absorb very well sublingually. I may not be leaving it under the tongue long enough perhaps but after a few minutes the powder just seems to stick under my tongue and is not getting absorbed very quickly... I am sticking to oral doses of 50mg TAU once per day. I feel my mood has improved and I feel well rested every day. My sleep patterns have been irregular working overnight 4 days per week and changing over the weekends etc. Uridine has made this a much easier transition. I haven't looked into the sleep research that you mention, Happy, but I think uridine is having some sort of positive effect on my sleep. Maybe it's the ALCAR I added. Maybe it's the DHA in the fish oil. Maybe it's a combination of all of those things with uridine. Maybe it's placebo but I think uridine is a keeper.

[MrHappy]

<chuckle>
In case it hasn't been more obvious than finding 10,000 OWS protesters in your front yard, it's certainly my favourite nootropic combination so far - seems to be the solution for so many neurological issues.

What's TAU's solubility/consistency like?
I'll hopefully know in a week - if the shipment arrives before my holidays.

UMP dissolves instantly in water, so sublingually it absorbs very well.
I'm obtaining pricing for >1Kg UMP direct from China now. It's a pity that none of the usual suppliers are doing anything above 25g at this stage - I'd prefer something with a CoA or trusted label.

[MrHappy]

http://www.lieberton...9/cap.2010.0054
2011:
Open-Label Uridine for Treatment of Depressed Adolescents with Bipolar Disorder

This report is an open-label case series of seven depressed adolescents with bipolar disorder treated with uridine for 6 weeks. Treatment response was measured with the Children's Depression Rating Scale-Revised and the Clinical Global Impressions scale. Uridine was associated with decreased depressive symptoms, and was well tolerated by study participants. Further systematic studies of uridine are warranted.

[JChief]

http://www.lieberton...9/cap.2010.0054
2011:
Open-Label Uridine for Treatment of Depressed Adolescents with Bipolar Disorder

This report is an open-label case series of seven depressed adolescents with bipolar disorder treated with uridine for 6 weeks. Treatment response was measured with the Children's Depression Rating Scale-Revised and the Clinical Global Impressions scale. Uridine was associated with decreased depressive symptoms, and was well tolerated by study participants. Further systematic studies of uridine are warranted.

Wish I could view the dosages used...

[MrHappy]

Look what I found
http://www.bioportfo...dolescents.html

[JChief]

Look what I found
http://www.bioportfo...dolescents.html

500mg. Now I wish I knew which type of uridine! Haha. I'll assume UMP. Thanks

[JChief]

Uridine for treating type I and type II bipolar disorder:
http://www.faqs.org/...app/20090054370

... apparently as a cure, too.. if I'm reading this correctly:

[0087]A general dosage is between 3 and 100 mg/kg/day, e.g., which can be 0.25 to 7 grams (e.g., 0.25, 0.5, or 1 grams) per patient per day. Oral tablets of triacetyl uridine can be used. The daily dosage is administered on an ongoing basis until symptoms subside.

One interesting thing I noticed from the patient histories is that females seemed to benefit while every male either did not respond or reported loose stools and farting. Terrrrrrrific. But anyway.. I like this combo thus far. I do feel it helps with improved mood. And at 50mg TAU that is far lower than any clinical study for depression. Yet I do notice a difference!

[JChief]

Another study:

http://cds.ismrm.org...iles/001482.pdf

Dose: "Subjects received an increasing dose of TAU over the course of the study as follows: wks 1-2: 6 grams/day; wks 3-4: 12 grams/day; wks 5-6: 18 grams/day"

"Conclusions: Oral administration of TAU demonstrates mood-stabilizing effects in both depressed and bipolar subjects. TAU also causes a consistent and detectable shift in brain energetics in mood disorder patients in the right frontal cortex, manifested by an increase in PCr/B-NTP ratio."

Without any good bulk sources 6 grams of TAU per day would be insane

Edited by JChief, 06 December 2011 - 11:37 AM.

[MrHappy]

There were a few males that seemed to fare better than the gaseous ones. Although the loose stools and gas should be a clue of some sorts. Maybe the results would have been different at smaller doses and/or sublingually in the males?

IDK.. too many possibilities at this stage. More research needed.
Feel like guinea-pigging yourself at an equivalent of 500mg UMP sublingually? <chuckle>

BTW, WellStat are claiming TAU at 8x bioavailability over free uridine.
http://www.wellstatt.../visto-5fu.html

I can't yet seem to find a comparison of the bioavailabilty of UMP to free uridine. I wonder if they are different?

[ViolettVol]

Copy/paste sections of a reply to a PM I sent a couple of days ago-


Effects:
It's quite different, in that there is no 'buzz' or stimulant effect whatsoever. The most obvious effect is increased mental clarity, calmness, cognitive ability and recall. A single dose would have little appreciable effect.

It will also raise your levels of acetylcholine *without* robbing the lipid membranes.

What it does is gradually repair and enhance your brain on a daily basis, by significantly promoting neurogenesis - you create or repair neurons, dendrites and lipid membranes. This includes receptors as well.

The overall 'effect' is that you feel like yourself, but unimpeded - existing cognitive or emotional issues disappear over a week or so and you start feeling and being awesome. Your capacity to learn and retain information is noticably better. Particularly when you relax and stop trying to mentally compare your responses to pre-supplementing days, I found.

My wife was recovering from Zoloft withdrawal, which left her with occasional anxiety attacks and obsessive behaviour. That just got better and then stopped altogether. Essentially she appears to have have made peace with her problems, as they arose, and moved on. Her critical thinking has improved and she is making better decisions overall. Her scores playing online Scrabble have increased to the point where she is just destroying the other players. She was smart to begin with, but now she appears to be 'unshackled', if you like.

In short, it just makes you a better and more capable person.

Side effects noticed: none noticed
Withdrawal effects: none
Interaction with drugs: none that I've been able to find on pubmed or google, other than mediating side-effects from neuroleptics and antidepressants.

My daily morning regime is:
500mg of alpha-gpc choline
250mg of uridine-5'-monophosphate
1 berocca
Washing down:
4 capsules of flaxseed oil (I'm vegetarian)
1 vitamin E capsule
1 grape-seed extract capsule equiv 12000mg

My nightly regime is:
1 lecithin capsule 1200mg
1 grape-seed extract capsule
Occasionally a bacopa capsule, 2 hours before sleep. It makes me too sleepy to feel like sex, so not an 'every day' supplement.

I found 2 American suppliers that sell bulk powder through their websites and also through ebay. Superiornutraceuticals - uridine and nutrabiolabs - alpha-gpc. Quality has been good. Shipping has been very quick.

The bulk alpha-gpc is annoying to dispense. The uridine jar comes with a 250mg scoop, but since the uridine sticks like crazy, I leave the scoop out of the jar, to prevent wasting it. 1 scoop of uridine in the cup, 2 scoops of alpha-gpc, then add the water and berocca. Stir. Voila.

Be sure to start adding some extra study matter to your routine - there's no point having extra cognitive ability and not using it to improve your knowledge-base!

and how about skin - both for you and your wife - any rejuvenating improvements?

[MrHappy]

Greatly improved. Wasn't expecting or looking for that, either. Not sure which part of this combination is responsible, but it is welcome.

To clarify something from my earlier quoted post - the 'no-stimulant' effect was observed at a 250mg normal oral dose. 250mg, sublingually, is quite different - still not like caffeine, but vaguely similar to some of the more positive effects of adderall.

[tintinet]

Greatly improved. Wasn't expecting or looking for that, either. Not sure which part of this combination is responsible, but it is welcome.

To clarify something from my earlier quoted post - the 'no-stimulant' effect was observed at a 250mg normal oral dose. 250mg, sublingually, is quite different - still not like caffeine, but vaguely similar to some of the more positive effects of adderall.

Still not getting that, exactly, although I feel alright after taking it.

[Hebbeh]

As I reported in an earlier post, sublingual allows me to feel mentally younger...like I think I "should" feel or what I think "normal" should feel like. And this is amazing for me because I have been suffering some type of "brain fog" and mental exhaustion with accompanying progressive short term memory issues for a long time. At times, I almost wonder if it isn't CFS like. Anyway, sublingual UMP has lifted the fog and given me "clarity"....I suddenly just feel very clear minded...which, like I said, I haven't experienced for a long time. Now, if you don't have any such cognitive issues...and already have good mental clarity and function...then it may not be able to improve on what you currently have...in other wards, you probably can't exceed 100% mental function (if it's not broke, you can't fix it).