2844 replies to this topic

[JChief]

Yep I agree with that. Perfect-o!

[rwac]

400-600mg EPA
1500-2000mg DHA

I just want to point out that not Everyone needs EPA/DHA to get the benefits of uridine. I don't.

[MrHappy]

That's very true, but the neurite and dendrite outgrowth effects are apparently amplified by the addition of DHA & EPA and vitamin E.

Likewise, you'll also benefit from uprated BDNF and restorative effects to lipid membranes.. I think it's a good idea, overall. Depends on what you are aiming for, I guess?

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[nito]

400-600mg EPA
1500-2000mg DHA

I just want to point out that not Everyone needs EPA/DHA to get the benefits of uridine. I don't.

so u only take uridine and nothing else?

[matter_of_time]

I found a German OTC supplement Keltican forte, it contains 50 mg UMP

http://www.neurologi...t.php?idart=514

[rwac]

so u only take uridine and nothing else?

I take uridine 300mg, ALCAR 1g and vit E 800 iu.

[Delafuente]

Citicoline eventually gets converted/broken down into cytidine and choline. In the brain, the cytidine is converted into uridine I believe. Is there any reason why Alpha GPC + Uridine combo is preferred over the citicholine.

Would Uridine + GPC pack more punch than simply citicholine alone?

Merry Christmas everyone!

[MrHappy]

Probably a much, much higher bioavailability of uridine, particularly relative to the choline ratio.

DHA/EPA are thought to have antidepressant effects by repairing the lipid membranes, however it takes around a month or more of chronic dosing to be noticed. By adding uridine and vitamin E, that time is drastically reduced.

Uridine has many functions, including dopamine receptor balancing, increasing ATP production, uprating growth factors, improving mitochondrial function, longevity and many others. Primarily, it appears to be an accelerant for many cell repair functions.

The B vitamins are required to both prevent DNA transcription errors and to remove a limiting factor on cell replication.

Individual circumstances will dictate how much of these you will require, but if you are not having the same successes as others, good idea to make sure you are following the same steps. The amounts mentioned previously should be a blanket cover-all for almost everyone, pending any rare allergies.

My suggestion is to use the regimen as a starting point and make individualised adjustments, as needed, after at least 1-2 weeks.

[choqueiro]

Hi MrHappy.

Everything sounds good and looks promising in this combo but I'm a little bit afraid about uridine because it is said that uridine is genotoxic and carcingenic. What can you say about this?? It is really safe take uridine?? Any safe alternative with same results??

Thanks

[MrHappy]

<shrug> We've gone over this earlier in more detail, but it's also been shown to be DNA-protective in other studies.

The potential issue is apparently due to insufficient thymine available leading to uracil being incorporated into DNA instead. It's more an issue of folate deficiency than anything else. This is why you would be taking 400mcg of folate/folic acid - to prevent this. If you were really concerned there is also L-methylfolate.

Uridine is found in breastmilk, baby formula, mollases, CDP-choline, beer, yeast, spirulina, reishi, etc..

[Psychonaut]

What an interesting thread, MyHappy you mention spirulina contains 5% uridine? This number is correct?

Have suffered from ME/CFS for 10 years now, been taking moderate/high doses of omega3's for several years, ALCAR 1-2g last 12 months and 4-6g spirulina last 6 months; so it seems by pure coincidence have been on this combo and might explain my vast improvements in cognition, mood and even small amounts of exercise since starting the spirulina.

Is a little anecdotal since I take many things and have had gradual improvement for many years, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless.

Edited by Psychonaut, 25 December 2011 - 01:41 PM.

[Hebbeh]

What an interesting thread, MyHappy you mention spirulina contains 5% uridine? This number is correct?

Have suffered from ME/CFS for 10 years now, been taking moderate/high doses of omega3's for several years, ALCAR 1-2g last 12 months and 4-6g spirulina last 6 months; so it seems by pure coincidence have been on this combo and might explain my vast improvements in cognition, mood and even small amounts of exercise since starting the spirulina.

Is a little anecdotal since I take many things and have had gradual improvement for many years, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless.

Using pure Uridine, especially sublingually, will have a much more pronounced effect from my experience. Nothing compares to 300mg UMP sublingual.

[MrHappy]

It's 5% according to various sources. I used to chew on a lot of spirulina as a child - I'd run around with a blue/green mouth.

[nito]

What an interesting thread, MyHappy you mention spirulina contains 5% uridine? This number is correct?

Have suffered from ME/CFS for 10 years now, been taking moderate/high doses of omega3's for several years, ALCAR 1-2g last 12 months and 4-6g spirulina last 6 months; so it seems by pure coincidence have been on this combo and might explain my vast improvements in cognition, mood and even small amounts of exercise since starting the spirulina.

Is a little anecdotal since I take many things and have had gradual improvement for many years, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless.

Using pure Uridine, especially sublingually, will have a much more pronounced effect from my experience. Nothing compares to 300mg UMP sublingual.

how much tau is equivalent to 300 mg ump?

[Hebbeh]

What an interesting thread, MyHappy you mention spirulina contains 5% uridine? This number is correct?

Have suffered from ME/CFS for 10 years now, been taking moderate/high doses of omega3's for several years, ALCAR 1-2g last 12 months and 4-6g spirulina last 6 months; so it seems by pure coincidence have been on this combo and might explain my vast improvements in cognition, mood and even small amounts of exercise since starting the spirulina.

Is a little anecdotal since I take many things and have had gradual improvement for many years, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless.

Using pure Uridine, especially sublingually, will have a much more pronounced effect from my experience. Nothing compares to 300mg UMP sublingual.

how much tau is equivalent to 300 mg ump?

Nobody knows for sure. I have seen some people toss around 100mg TAU for the same effect of 300mg UMP....and I have experimented with both....but 100mg oral TAU doesn't have the same obvious effect that 300mg sublingual UMP does for me. And TAU doesn't seem to work sublingual as it doesn't dissolve and absorb like UMP does. Only 200-300mg sublingual UMP gives me all the apparent and obvious effects that have had such a positive effect on my mental energy, focus, thought clarity, lucidity, and accompanying "brain fog". Things I have been struggling with for a long time...almost to the point of wondering if I was suffering from some form of low grade CFS. Now all much improved and I feel like my old self...like the clock has been turned back 10 years. And it's subtle...not like a jolt of stimulant...but that I just "feel good" in the way of feeling like I think I should feel...clear headed and "on top of my game"...which I haven't felt for a long time...And I just started a new job back in June...a very mentally challenging job...so this couldn't of come at a better time for me...a very much appreciated "gift" from MrHappy! For what it's worth...I'm 54...and can't say how much effect sublingual UMP will have on others...especially if their cognitive functions are already high and they have no underlying conditions needing improvement....YMMV.

[MrHappy]

300mg of UMP *sublingually* is pretty strong.

Having said that, 100mg TAU, orally, also feels pretty potent. I've actually scaled back to 75mg TAU during my holiday as 100mg was making me feel a bit too zen-like, when I'm supposed to be kicking back and relaxing.

Your own mileage may vary, of course.

[MrHappy]

I live to give, Hebbeh. Merry Christmas!

[nito]

300mg of UMP *sublingually* is pretty strong.

Having said that, 100mg TAU, orally, also feels pretty potent. I've actually scaled back to 75mg TAU during my holiday as 100mg was making me feel a bit too zen-like, when I'm supposed to be kicking back and relaxing.

Your own mileage may vary, of course.

Damn im running out of my tau. I might start doing it sublingually to make it more cost effective.

[nito]

The only thing im worried about is whether marijuana will dampen the potential effects. I smoke occasionally and when i do , that could be at least 2 times a day. Of course when im high my short term memory is gone. I was talking to a friend for 30 mins in the cold smoking some ciggarettes, as we went in we could not recall anything that we had been speaking about until 10 mins later when we were only able to recall maybe 40 %.

[MrHappy]

Hmmm.. Weed.. Yes, it's a good question, for which I don't have an answer.

TAU is lipid-soluble - it wont work sublingually.

It's a change of pace, but do you think you could taper off the weed over a few weeks and try it then? Use the remaining TAU and perhaps chocolate or anandamide to help you wash out. By that stage, your UMP should have arrived and you'll have acquired some vitamins, etc.

[MrHappy]

Oh.. and an even bigger ask - see if you can taper off the nicotine at the same time. TAU should make that much easier - see the recent patent and study links I posted. Nicotine and caffeine seem to compete with uridine on many aspects.

[nito]

Hmmm.. Weed.. Yes, it's a good question, for which I don't have an answer.

TAU is lipid-soluble - it wont work sublingually.

It's a change of pace, but do you think you could taper off the weed over a few weeks and try it then? Use the remaining TAU and perhaps chocolate or anandamide to help you wash out. By that stage, your UMP should have arrived and you'll have acquired some vitamins, etc.

im waiting for the vitamins and stuff but ump is at the post office, i didnt manage to pick it up before they closed for christmas. wow no weed or cigarettes in order for the uridine combo to work as it should? Will be hard.

[Psychonaut]

Guess I will have to get some UMP and try it sublingually, then maybe I can compare it to the spirulina. MyHappy I have no idea how you could chew on spirulina, I buy it in 1g tablet form, the powder is so disgusting.

This combination could have great potential for people with ME/CFS, since the cognitive symptoms are atrocious; guess I will be the guinea pig and report back to them

[choqueiro]

Hi MrHappy.

You suggested to take: 400-600mg EPA and 1500-2000mg DHA. What fish oil brand do you take?? Almost all brands of omega 3 have more EPA than DHA. Do you take two products, one with EPA only and other with DHA only??

In the title of this thread you talk about: GPC (choline), Uridine and DHA. I´m a little bit confused. Fishoil with EPA is necessary or not?? The studies you mentioned where made with DHA only or with DHA + EPA??

In your personal opinion it is better TAU or UMP?? Some people talk about better experiences with UMP.

Thanks and Merry Christmas.

[csrpj]

i'm also curious about the EPA/DHA ratio. could i just take extra fishoil, whereby i meet the DHA requirements, but take more EPA in? or is the ratio itself an important part of the stack?

second question: what about using RNA, like the RNA product by LEF. does anyone know how much, and in what form, the uridine contents are, and if there are negative or sub-optimal effects to the other nucleotides present in the RNA formula?

Edited by csrpj, 27 December 2011 - 01:59 AM.

[Psychonaut]

Cod liver oil might be the best option for higher DHA, luckily I have been using nordic naturals cod liver oil for a couple of years already, has about 20% more DHA over EPA; 600mg/410mg a teaspoon.

Edited by Psychonaut, 27 December 2011 - 04:03 AM.

[MrHappy]

The DHA:EPA ratio came from one of the patents early in the thread.

I take a lot of flaxseed oil (ALA), which breaks down into both DHA and EPA. My personal ratio is possibly sub-optimal, but being vegetarian, I have little choice.

UMP appears to be more cost effective, taken sublingually.

RNA sourced from LEF should be 25% uracil, which then binds to the included ribose sugar to make uridine. There are some advantages and disadvantages from an RNA source, including increased risk of gout from the 2 purines and the question of what percentage of uracil is converted into uridine.

RWAC may be able to help you more with RNA supplement questions - I think he was using them?

[rwac]

RWAC may be able to help you more with RNA supplement questions - I think he was using them?

It works, but it's definitely more subtle though.

Actually it will have cytosine too, which potentially turns into cytidine, which also increases uridine levels.
So about half the RNA will likely convert to uridine to some extent.

UMP is def better sublingually. Haven't tried TAU yet.

[nito]

Perhaps we should also mix in some brain training games into the mix to maybe get the maximum out of the potential new neurons. N back is quite a famous working memory game. I guess just growing neurons without doing anything to them will make you less aware of the fact that you have made any gains.

[choqueiro]

So DHA:EPA ratio seems to be important.

I´m searching to Nordic Naturals omega 3. What dou you think about this product?? http://www.nordicnat...14/?ProdID=1607 Do you think the ratio DHA:EPA is correct or should I look for a product with more EPA??

Another question. Do you think it´s better to take Alpha GPC or Choline CDP??

Thanks.