2844 replies to this topic

[dreth7]

What is the recommended form of uridine supplementation, TAU or UMP? Is there a substantial difference in effectiveness? Im leaning towards UMP because it is water-soluble.

[MrHappy]

I have located a full paper on why you would take DHA,EPA + UMP/TAU together. Take a look at the actual phospholipid increases shown in table 2 / page 4. *WOW*.

http://wurtmanlab.mi...ic/pdf/1037.pdf

[MrHappy]

Sparkk51 - a whole range of benefits including cell and cognitive repair / enhancement / growth and mood stability.

Dreth7 - a few here have tried both. Both are great. UMP should be a lot cheaper in the long run, particularly sublingually.

[X_Danny_X]

I have located a full paper on why you would take DHA,EPA + UMP/TAU together. Take a look at the actual phospholipid increases shown in table 2 / page 4. *WOW*.

http://wurtmanlab.mi...ic/pdf/1037.pdf

can spirulina be enough to be used for Uridine if you 10 grams? I am assuming you can. Also is it the water soluble or fat soluble in Spirulina of Uridine?

[sparkk51]

How would taking Uridine in combination with stimulants work? Would they provide neuroprotective shielding against the damage that can be done to dopaminergic pathways and receptors?

[bkaz]

I have located a full paper on why you would take DHA,EPA + UMP/TAU together. Take a look at the actual phospholipid increases shown in table 2 / page 4. *WOW*.

http://wurtmanlab.mi...ic/pdf/1037.pdf

Thanks Mr., very interesting!
I figured the best way to supplement DHA/EPA is canned cod liver, on Amazon.

But I see a potential problem here, - supplementing all the ingredients may
help short-term, but will probably slow down their recycling in the tissues,
leading to accumulation of damaged phospholipids in the cells. Accelerated
recycling (autophagy) seems to be the main benefit of fasting, &
supplementation (especially of amino acids & antioxidants) is known to
interfere with it.

[nito]

ok im ready for some ump. Is empty stomach recommended?

[kevinseven11]

Thanks Mr., very interesting!
I figured the best way to supplement DHA/EPA is canned cod liver, on Amazon.

But I see a potential problem here, - supplementing all the ingredients may
help short-term, but will probably slow down their recycling in the tissues,
leading to accumulation of damaged phospholipids in the cells. Accelerated
recycling (autophagy) seems to be the main benefit of fasting, &
supplementation (especially of amino acids & antioxidants) is known to
interfere with it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2081972/ Here is a study about your statement.
I honestly don't think uridine will slow down recycling too much. If combined with lions mane, and other NGF raisers, it could possibly have a negative effect. Perhaps just cycle uridine 1 to 2 weeks every 2 months or so? Are there any substances that interact with the ATG7 gene?

[Hebbeh]

Sublingual doesn't matter....though I do happen to have empty stomach when I do sublingual in the morning.

[MrHappy]

Bkaz - I think owing to the DNA and mitochondrial repair functions being uprated and sufficient methylation cofactors added, it should balance out in the end.

Sparkk51 - there are 2 papers earlier in this thread that seem to demonstrate that, however a few of us have noticed increased sensitivity to caffeine and nicotine. There are other papers later in the thread that show some competitive/amplification behaviour for some other aspects.

Danny - Spirulina looks like a good natural option. I haven't personally tried it in the context of this thread. I think that it will need to be consumed in a normal way to process/convert it correctly. I grazed on it regularly as a kid, however. Please keep us updated.

Nito - UMP is water soluble, so empty stomach is more effective.

[brundall]

Just wondering if anyone has tried throwing a vasodilator such as Gingko or Vinpocetine into the mix and whether this would provide an enhanced effect for the Uridine? I notice that LEF includes vinpocetine in their Cognitex mix.

[MrHappy]

Looks like BBC have reported on a study showing vitamins + DHA as an anti-alzheimer's diet. 'Can stop brain shrinking.' Apparently, trans fats and junk food do the opposite, too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-16344228

[MrHappy]

Brundall - I haven't noticed anything obvious over the last few months.

My bacopa supp, which I take infrequently, has a large Ginkgo component. Mind you, I usually take it at night, some 12 hours after my daily stack.

[nito]

anyone knows how much one of those ump spoons u get represent in mg? I unfortunately don't have a scale. What dose should i start on btw?

[Hebbeh]

anyone knows how much one of those ump spoons u get represent in mg? I unfortunately don't have a scale. What dose should i start on btw?

It was quoted at 250mg...and I measured a level spoon at exactly 250mg and a heaping spoon just shy of 300mg.
I started at a level spoon (250mg) sublingual twice/day and that has worked well. If I remember correctly, I was 5 or 6 days into it when I really started to notice the boost in mental energy...or maybe more like mental clarity...but definitely a boost. And noticed I felt more rested on less sleep.
edit: the mental energy is definitely not like a stimulant though....it is more of a feeling of not being tired....I had suffered, for lack of a better term, "brain fog"...mentally exhausted and trouble concentrating and focusing....and that fog has just lifted and I feel "clear headed" and awake instead of tired...it is hard to explain...but I just feel good again...in a normal kind of way...which hasn't been normal for me in a long while.

Edited by Hebbeh, 31 December 2011 - 07:26 AM.

[nito]

tried some 300mg under the tounge with some dha pills. Gonna do it properly next time, not intoxicated.

[X_Danny_X]

Bkaz - I think owing to the DNA and mitochondrial repair functions being uprated and sufficient methylation cofactors added, it should balance out in the end.

Sparkk51 - there are 2 papers earlier in this thread that seem to demonstrate that, however a few of us have noticed increased sensitivity to caffeine and nicotine. There are other papers later in the thread that show some competitive/amplification behaviour for some other aspects.

Danny - Spirulina looks like a good natural option. I haven't personally tried it in the context of this thread. I think that it will need to be consumed in a normal way to process/convert it correctly. I grazed on it regularly as a kid, however. Please keep us updated.

Nito - UMP is water soluble, so empty stomach is more effective.

When you say a normal way, do you mean just eating it and not doing it sublingually? I also take Chlorella but have no clue of how much Uridine it has.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 31 December 2011 - 10:57 PM.

[noos]

Sorry if I ask again, but I am interested in CDP choline (as uridine increaser, available, quality, etc.) Can anyone using it tell me if it has pro depressant/obsessive effects like cholinergics? Thanks.

[rwac]

CDP Choline is a cholinergic, and it has negative effects for me.

[MrHappy]

Danny - masticated and absorbed through the usual gastrointestinal path / liver.

[csrpj]

a few questions on my mind:

- phosphatidylserine, does it have any role in this stack? in the various diagrams i've seen with choline and uridine, PS is always there (i believe it's collectively produced from the main factors in this stack?)... does the benefit from uridine&co at come come from the PS production (in which case PS can be taken instead)?

- about EPA/DHA. does extra EPA do any harm in this stack? in other words - given an equal amount of the ideal DHA - does the ratio itself of EPA/DHA matter? (in other words if i'm using standard ratio fish oil, is there any benefit in adding pure dha or just switching to a higher DHA fish oil?)

- does the timings of the various co-factors matter? is it important one takes their fish oil or B vitamins at the same time as the uridine, or does it work equally well if the co-factors are generally in one's system?

- does say ALCAR work equally well as CDP or AGPC, in the context of this stack?

[MrHappy]

Csrpj - PS will be increased by uridine + DHA&EPA. It's not the only / major factor, there are many more benefits.

DHA/EPA ratios - try to get close. I think it'll be more a matter of including enough to fuel the process.

The B vitamins can be taken at any time - your body stores a cache. I'd probably take the vitamin E with the DHA&EPA, etc.

Any choline(rgic) should work fine. Someone recently posted a paper in another thread showing that alpha-gpc actually increases dopamine in the striatum, which was a pleasant surprise.

[nito]

Mr Happy what do you think of this that i have settled for.

Uridine
b complex
multi
CDP choline
Max dha
idebenone
selegiline
Lions mane liquid

Is this overload on NGF or cool lol?

[nito]

Bkaz - I think owing to the DNA and mitochondrial repair functions being uprated and sufficient methylation cofactors added, it should balance out in the end.

Sparkk51 - there are 2 papers earlier in this thread that seem to demonstrate that, however a few of us have noticed increased sensitivity to caffeine and nicotine. There are other papers later in the thread that show some competitive/amplification behaviour for some other aspects.

Danny - Spirulina looks like a good natural option. I haven't personally tried it in the context of this thread. I think that it will need to be consumed in a normal way to process/convert it correctly. I grazed on it regularly as a kid, however. Please keep us updated.

Nito - UMP is water soluble, so empty stomach is more effective.

yes but you can you take multi on empty stomach? that means i have to eat after taking ump sublingually and then mix the co factors i guess.

[nito]

omg my multi only serves 120iu vitamin e per three tables, and u guys talking bout taking 500-1000 iu vitamin e?? Lord my liver will die.

[nito]

so u only take uridine and nothing else?

I take uridine 300mg, ALCAR 1g and vit E 800 iu.

no multi, no b complex? ur cost effective lol.

[rwac]

no multi, no b complex? ur cost effective lol.

I take thorne b complex #12 occasionally, 2-3 times a week.

[MrHappy]

Nito - selegiline is an irreversible MAO-B inhibitor with an amphetamine payload. I would call that significantly counterproductive for this stack.

Idebenone / CoQ10 is probably fine.

Everything else looks good to me.

[nito]

Nito - selegiline is an irreversible MAO-B inhibitor with an amphetamine payload. I would call that significantly counterproductive for this stack.

Idebenone / CoQ10 is probably fine.

Everything else looks good to me.

ops forgot to mention pqq lol.

[Lufega]

I've been using 25 mg TAU for a few days now. I can see why MrHappy loves it so much. I don't feel it working anymore even with stimulants. I just feel more balanced. Thoughts and ideas seems to flow effortlessly with less "uhmmms.." Memory recall is also getting better. I noticed that I'm able to recall names, specific dates and things I've read previously with more easy. Although it might be too soon to call it, I do feel it's helping with social anxiety. I don't have that typical hesitation before I say or do something. I just do it..

It does feel like something is missing to be fully optimal. Maybe I should increase the dose. I'm using it with krill oil and a b-complex. I have some alpha-GPC that I can add and maybe I should look into vitamin E although I'm not sure why it's needed.