2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

<chuckle>

Yes, increasing the TAU dose would be my recommendation, assuming everything else is right.

25mg/day is a pretty low dose. I'd try 75-100mg for a week and see how you think/feel? Then gently ramp up the alpha-gpc to around 500mg/day. If you're not treating depression, you could add alpha-gpc much sooner.

Edited by MrHappy, 02 January 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[MrHappy]

Nito, probably quite ok.

Since you're creating a new scenario, I'd suggest doing this in stages so you can identify any problems - start with the original stack for a few weeks, then tack on any additions, say, a week apart.

[csrpj]

wanting your take on this...

i'm currently on zoloft and disillusioned with the SSRI route (taken prozac, lexapro, and now zoloft... initially feels good, but later just makes me feel ok-ish at best). you mentioned your zoloft and uridine in the context of your wife, my happy, so maybe you have some advice (and/or anyone else!). should i first get this uridine stack going, and if i'm feeling pretty good on it, taper off zoloft? even though zoloft isn't cutting it, i'm afriad if i go off my anxiety will skyrocket. i'm taking 75mg BTW.... part of me wants to go higher or explore other ADs, part of me is keen on forgetting pharms completely.

speaking of which, what can one expect from the uridine stack as far as mental health goes, beyond just a boost in depressive symptoms and in cognition? is it above the many OTC supplements that in actuality don't help most people with serious problems enjoying their lives?

also, i'm curious, mr happy, why you don't use vegeterian DHA? due to expense?

Edited by csrpj, 03 January 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[Logan]

wanting your take on this...

i'm currently on zoloft and disillusioned with the SSRI route (taken prozac, lexapro, and now zoloft... initially feels good, but later just makes me feel ok-ish at best). you mentioned your zoloft and uridine in the context of your wife, my happy, so maybe you have some advice (and/or anyone else!). should i first get this uridine stack going, and if i'm feeling pretty good on it, taper off zoloft? even though zoloft isn't cutting it, i'm afriad if i go off my anxiety will skyrocket. i'm taking 75mg BTW.... part of me wants to go higher or explore other ADs, part of me is keen on forgetting pharms completely.

speaking of which, what can one expect from the uridine stack as far as mental health goes, beyond just a boost in depressive symptoms and in cognition? is it above the many OTC supplements that in actuality don't help most people with serious problems enjoying their lives?

also, i'm curious, mr happy, why you don't use vegeterian DHA? due to expense?

Why aren't you taking 100 mg? That's most people's sweet spot. Dude, you cannot expect any herbal, natural, supplemental, or medical treatment to just make you feel good or great all the time. You have to do sooo many other things. Zoloft is probably keeping you in check a lot more than you realize. Are you exercising properly? Have you tried going Paleo or "primal" with your diet? Are you engaging in pleasurable and rewarding social activities? Have you tried yoga and meditation? Do you take fish oil?(I'm sure you do).

If you start some supplement, and you feel better while you are still on Zoloft, just keep doing that. Don't listen to these people here, they are very young and inexperienced. No form of choline will hold a candle to what an SSRI can do.

You are your own worst enemy, and your own best friend, remember that.

[MrHappy]

Well, if you were planning on tapering off zoloft, I would run with the uridine stack for a couple of weeks first, continue it, then *gradually* cut down the dose. Liquid zoloft and a syringe for measuring it out would be the easiest way to do it, as per this:
http://www.emotional...withdrawal.html

My wife was then able to work through past issues that were the root causes of her anxieties.. and they've *stayed* gone, months later!

She says that the uridine combo helped improve / elevate her consciousness in a way that let her have a calm, rational place to distance herself from the anxieties and obsessive impulses, deal with them logically and move on.

She is consistently happier than she was on zoloft and her natural creative talents have rekindled and blossomed. Her career had stagnated, as on zoloft, she had been losing self-confidence and interest in her artistic nature, which is the core of who she is. She had lost her sparkle and zest for life. Back to normal now!

In short, based on her results, I'd recommend it. You'll still have some work to do in the early weeks, as old memories float to the surface, giving you the means and clarity to identify and make peace with the causes of your anxiety triggers. Completely worth it. EFT was also quite helpful.

As for vegetarian DHA (algae) - in a nutshell, not enough EPA for my liking. ALA from flaxseed provides a better balance. It is also very cheap..

[JChief]

I'm finding that thus UMP variety in capsule form must have a filler of some sort. Tastes a bit like flour? Not a deal breaker but I guess not all of it is absorbing as I imagined. Also, I'm not sure I notice anything too different from 100mg TAU. Hebbeh have you tried 100mg TAU?

[MrHappy]

Morgan / Logan, I know you love SSRIs and you're entitled to your opinion, but I really think you need to update your knowledge on this area. Perhaps even try this yourself, before passing judgement..

A few people here have already had successful results.

The clinical trials and studies all point to the next generation of antidepressants revolving around increasing phospholipid / membrane health / density, rather than artificially trying to balance the existing 5HT receptors with SSRIs and MAOIs.

I agree that choline alone is not effective against depression. This is quite different.

If the brain can repair the underlying issue, I don't understand why would you want to keep bombarding it with seratonin? It's a side-of-the-road quick fix with unwanted side effects.

There are already a number of citations in this thread, but here is some further mainstream reading:

http://m.psychologyt...3/better-prozac

http://spanimax.com/...a-3-and-uridine

There are plenty more if you google. Enjoy your life, whatever you do.

[nupi]

As for http://www.psycholog...3/better-prozac ,

If you walked into your therapist's office and he told you to stop taking Prozac and start eating more fish, you'd probably think he was crazy.

Screw thinking he is crazy, I would probably fire him on the spot. I can't remember how often I have read the fish oil improves mood thing and I do take fish oil for other reasons but mood-wise, fish oil does not do jack for me (and I am at 2g EPA/1g DHA, so not exactly smallish dose, either).

Still trying to get my hands on a good Uridine source, though.

Edited by nupi, 03 January 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[GhostBuster]

I have wondered why vitamin E is needed in this combo. Maybe for this: vitamin E appears to be essential to repair of membranes.

http://www.nutraingr...on-of-vitamin-E

Edited by GhostBuster, 03 January 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[nupi]

Vitamin E helps against oxidation of EPA/DHA which are fairly unstable on their own, for one.

[MrHappy]

Both, in fact.

[MrHappy]

This too:
http://www.imakenews...qmyl,b2jwwny2,w

Suicide rate of people taking SSRIs is double.

Uridine gets a mention towards the end.

[MrHappy]

Nupi - have you seen this?
http://item.mobilewe...Id=310336119467

I've bought this a few times with no issues, no fillers and it comes with a measuring scoop.

[nupi]

I asked them for a CoA just now - let's see what they come up with

[tintinet]

Vitamin E- alpha tocopherol, mixed tocopherols, or mixed tocopherols with tocotrienols?

[MrHappy]

A balanced mix is best. Like vitamin B, too much of 1 tocopherol can cause an effective deficiency of another.

[X_Danny_X]

Danny - masticated and absorbed through the usual gastrointestinal path / liver.

you mean just consume it regularly? lol man speak english to me.

also where are the articles for Spirulina containing Uridine?


I am going to take eggs (yolk included) for Choline, Spirulina for Uridine, and Fish Oil for DHA/EPA.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 04 January 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[MrHappy]

Page 2 had a link for this one, which was more like 1.1%:
http://www.pnas.org/.../10123.full.pdf

There was another paper showing a strain that was 5% on one of the spirulina websites. Could possibly have been spirulinasource.com from memory.

[nupi]

http://www.superiornutraceuticals.com/coa/uridine5mono.pdf CoA looks ok, but who knows if its for real...

[MrHappy]

Nupi - I've gone through near 75g of that exact product. I'd recommend it heavily.

Edited by MrHappy, 05 January 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[hippocampus]

if I take about 3 grams of brewer's yeast daily, when should I feel the effects of uridine and how are these effects different from pure uridine?

[MrHappy]

HC - there is doubt as to whether the complex peptides from brewer's yeast will be broken down with any great efficiency. Even assuming you could hit 100% conversion, at 3% uridine by weight, you're looking at 10g of brewer's yeast to hit 300mg. It's a lot of yeast.

I'd recommend UMP/TAU instead.

[hippocampus]

yes, but you (or somebody else in this topic?) felt the effects from 50 mg, this is about 1,5 g of brewer's yeast so even with 50% conversion should I feel the effects. anyway, you didn't answer my question: when should I feel the effects (whether is yeast, spirulina or UMP, TAU)?

[david ellis]

http://www.superiorn...ridine5mono.pdf CoA looks ok, but who knows if its for real...

Looks real to me, I bought some. Thanks for the link.

[MrHappy]

HC - fair enough, apologies.. been caught out today with missed flights due to an avalanche - must have skimmed that part!

I think that was Canz &/ Lufega, from memory and that was around 50mg of TAU, which means an equivalent of anywhere from 200mg - 350mg of UMP, depending on what literature you read. So still probably around 10g brewers yeast in an ideal world.. With a more realistic conversion rate it'll be significantly more.

As for effect, depends what you are shooting for, I guess?

50mg of pure UMP, etc. may do something, or at least the product from LEF, 'Cognitex', claims to. Personally, I haven't 'noticed' anything much at that dose level, but they did run clinical trials at that dose with some good results for Alzheimer's.

Threshold for me was around 200mg pure UMP (plus cofactors) after about 1 week of dosing.

Sleep deprived younger brother had significant benefits a short while after his first dose at 250mg.

The big question is - what are you wanting to achieve?

[trismatic]

Would like to order this, but I'm not sure how the customs react. Shoudn't be a problem, but I don't want any charges of breaking the medical substances law, lol. Didn't see it on the lists though...

[MrHappy]

As far as I know, it is not scheduled anywhere in the world.

The day that RNA or nucleosides are scheduled is the day that you pinch yourself to make sure you didn't wake up in some freaky sci-fi movie.

[trismatic]

As far as I know, it is not scheduled anywhere in the world.

The day that RNA or nucleosides are scheduled is the day that you pinch yourself to make sure you didn't wake up in some freaky sci-fi movie.

One might think so. For example, Inositol here is on the medical substance list IF and only IF you export it. There has been a couple of cases where customs have discarded products containing inositol (daily vitamin products). The natural product shops can sell it though. Same applies for herbal medicine like Gingko Biloba, atleast at some level and it can be found from the herbal medical substances list.

All in all, Uridine sounds so interesting. I'm sleep deprived, can't maintain normal sleep habits and find myself always sleeping only 4-6hrs a night. My cognitive performance is currently so weak. Actually I don't remember if my cognition was ever very good. Schools just tend to be easy and I can surf through courses with minimal work.

University is starting again, so I'll most likely see an improvement on the amount of my sleep hours. I'm pretty sure this chronic sleep deprivation has changed my brains a lot and I'm actually hoping this combo would help me. Going to add a lot of aerobic exercise and much more healthy diet.

I'll report my results if I lean towards buying Uridine.

Edited by trismatic, 06 January 2012 - 01:38 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Right now im on lions mane and Uridine TAU (plus cofactors). I am recording the results in dual n back and so far Uridine looks very promising! Even when sleep deprived on uridine, my scores were atleast 50% better though the first day had very little increase.

Edited by kevinseven11, 06 January 2012 - 02:33 AM.

[trismatic]

Right now im on lions mane and Uridine TAU (plus cofactors). I am recording the results in dual n back and so far Uridine looks very promising! Even when sleep deprived on uridine, my scores were atleast 50% better though the first day had very little increase.

Did you see my suggestion in your thread? I suggested not to play every day, but only a couple of days at the beginning and the end of your trial. Thus, minimizing the effects of naturally learning the game.