2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Not a complete waste. I'd say perfect - you're now at 10 days, where you can start scaling back on the nicotine and harmful stuff and you shouldn't feel terrible.

Time to start making yourself feel better.

[nito]

Not a complete waste. I'd say perfect - you're now at 10 days, where you can start scaling back on the nicotine and harmful stuff and you shouldn't feel terrible.

Time to start making yourself feel better.

Oh iforgot. Sleep!!! I'm sure sleep is critical to the success of the combo too. Right now i havebeenawakefor 24 hours, taken 600 ump 75mg tau & cdp, no co factors today, also added 20 ml lions lane. But damn nothing works without sleep, that is one of the best nootropic some say.

Ok i got 7puffs left in my pocket. Ill have half, the rest ill give away. Regarding the snuff, i got 24 pouches. I'll try to take half of my usual dose a day.
Btw Mr happy. I'm taking stablon too. Asyou know it cleans up serotonin rather than making it available as in the case of ssri. Since uridine combo has got anti deppresant effect, will this interact bad or as they say will it blend?

Edited by nito, 10 January 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[MrHappy]

Yeah, time to wind it all down..?

You don't have to be He-Man about it - just picture how you want your lifestyle (and health) to be and gradually slide into it.

If it doesn't feel right, go back up a bit and hover for a while and then start winding down again. At the same time, build up the positive things.

My advice is that the easier you can make it for your body to heal, the better you will feel, but it's a wholistic approach - you can't just take uppers and mood stabilisers and then ignore the bad stuff you are putting in yourself, hoping they cancel out.. they don't. :(

Hope that helps? Hope you feel better.

[dreth7]

Im sure this has been beaten like a dead horse, but effective dosage of UMP sublingually for a healthy individual is around 250mg right?

[MrHappy]

http://m.gizmodo.com...wing-your-brain

Depression cured by increasing the size of the hippocampus.

Different drug, same effect.

If you are depressed, or schizophrenic or have Alzheimer's, scientists say you probably have a shrunken hippocampus. The good news: a drug that just entered human trials promises to re-grow that part of the brain.

It's an entirely new approach to treating clinical depression, which is the first of several diseases scientists at biotech company Neuralstem are hoping to address with their experimental oral drug. Most antidepressants work on brain chemistry, tweaking levels of neurotransmitters including serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. This is the first drug that aims to re-grow patients' atrophied brains.

Dr. Karl Johe, Neuralstem's CEO, believes that depression is a three-headed beast that affects neurotransmitter levels, neurons, and hippocampus size. And he says their new drug could address all three. He also hopes the drug will reverse the disease to the point that patients could permanently go off the drug.

"If we can show by MRI that we've increased hippocampus volume and at the same time reversed depression symptoms for six months after patients have stopped taking the drug, then we'll have a cure."

That a too-small hippocampus causes depression and other diseases is still technically a theory in humans (though it's been demonstrated in rats and chimps). So if the drug grows hippocampus volume and thereby treats depression, we'll not only have a new treatment, but the study results would be proof that a shriveled hippocampus is at least in part the culprit.

[MrHappy]

Dreth7 - sure.

[Reformed-Redan]

How much would it cost to get a kilogram of UMP from some safe Chinese source? Does it go bad over time, oxidation?

[summer stars]

I'm really interested in this stack but want to keep my initial costs low, not knowing whether it will work for me or not. I realized I already have some Choline Bitartrate, which I know is inferior to citicholine or alpha-GPC...but how inferior? If I just used it to test it out, how much would I need to take?

What's the cheapest I can find some uridine? I'm not about to spend $45 on something that I've never tried before. Would it be the 25mg triacetyluridine pills?

[nito]

http://m.gizmodo.com...wing-your-brain

Depression cured by increasing the size of the hippocampus.

Different drug, same effect.

If you are depressed, or schizophrenic or have Alzheimer's, scientists say you probably have a shrunken hippocampus. The good news: a drug that just entered human trials promises to re-grow that part of the brain.

It's an entirely new approach to treating clinical depression, which is the first of several diseases scientists at biotech company Neuralstem are hoping to address with their experimental oral drug. Most antidepressants work on brain chemistry, tweaking levels of neurotransmitters including serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine. This is the first drug that aims to re-grow patients' atrophied brains.

Dr. Karl Johe, Neuralstem's CEO, believes that depression is a three-headed beast that affects neurotransmitter levels, neurons, and hippocampus size. And he says their new drug could address all three. He also hopes the drug will reverse the disease to the point that patients could permanently go off the drug.

"If we can show by MRI that we've increased hippocampus volume and at the same time reversed depression symptoms for six months after patients have stopped taking the drug, then we'll have a cure."

That a too-small hippocampus causes depression and other diseases is still technically a theory in humans (though it's been demonstrated in rats and chimps). So if the drug grows hippocampus volume and thereby treats depression, we'll not only have a new treatment, but the study results would be proof that a shriveled hippocampus is at least in part the culprit.

where is this pill and how can i buy it?:D
Btw here's a free abstract reasoning test, if anyone want to measure if they are good while on uridine.
i got 114. I had not slept in 24 hours and empty stomach during that period. However i had uridine (ump & tau), b complex, multi, dha, and lions mane in me.


http://www.cerebrals...sts/jcti/209-2/

Edited by nito, 11 January 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[MrHappy]

Redan - 1Kg = $250, landed. I have 1Kg here, but I'm getting a local CoA done before I give out the details. Much cheaper >20Kg.

SummerStars - cheapest test would be the TAU caps. $12 a bottle that should last 2 weeks at 100mg/day. Your choline will be fine.

[penisbreath]

does nicotine compete for absorption with uridine? or deplete uridine levels? i use a small amount of nicotine (lozenges or gum), i.e. 1-2 2mg pieces, 2-3 times a week for ADHD.

i'd hate to have to give up because it's so effective and i can't really tolerate other stims. could i just take them at separate times?

[MrHappy]

It competes on some aspects and amplifies others.

I have my suspicions, but no human examples - would you be open to weaning off the nicotine for the trial? Should be easy on uridine. I suspect you may not need it.

[penisbreath]

It competes on some aspects and amplifies others.

I have my suspicions, but no human examples - would you be open to weaning off the nicotine for the trial? Should be easy on uridine. I suspect you may not need it.

so if it's mostly a case of competing and my nicotine intake is pretty low, would it be possible to keep it on board and just dose at separate times?

i'm not really 'on' nicotine - i mean, since i only take it a handful of times a week, i wouldn't have to wean off it. ideally i'd like to keep it on board, since i've never found anything supplement-wise that actually treats my ADD aside from caffeine and nicotine.

the problem is i'm skeptical that uridine would be a sufficient replacement. i may be going back on Dex soon though, in which case i'd definitely try uridine

[MrHappy]

Well, if you are surviving on intermittent nicotine, I suspect you'll have good results. Perhaps first week with nicotine and try the 2nd without.. for science?

[penisbreath]

sure

do you have anything backing up the claim that nicotine competes with uridine? i couldn't find anything while googling

[MrHappy]

Paper on page 13 and community experiences thus far.

[nito]

Im stayin home today so it will be a no cigarette day. Anyways this tread is so interesting it takes time from my studies, i need to limit my activit here.

[sevenTH]

I have been watching this great topic from the beginning and I already ordered UMP since there is no need take more caps as TAU involves for decent results. While the intended UMP purpose is for someone with Alzheimer, therefore expecting only marginally improvements , rather an approach to lessening the chances of faster neurodegradation , I'm not sure if the following stack along with UMP would provide eventually best benefits :
ALCAR 500 mg x 3 daily
DHA/EPA 500/250 x 2 day
Thorne Basic B Complex ( including Folate 400 mcg and methyl B12 400 mcg )
Methyl B12 1 mg x 1 day
TMG 500 for methylation and lowering homocysteine x 2 day
and delta-gamma tocotrienols instead of full E complex since alpha tocopherol interferes with tocotrienols benefits ( if I'm not wrong ). 1 daily

Any input is valuable . Thanks to all who have contributed to his amazing thread, especially Mr Happy !

Edited by manic_racetam, 13 February 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[choqueiro]

Hi MrHappy.

With regard to the vitamin E and the products from AOR "Ortho Core" and "Total E" here it is the email that AOR sent me:






"Sorry for the delay I was visiting India over the Holidays.

Vitamin E is made up of 8 components or isomers. The common E being sold in most places typically has only one isomer- d-alpha tocopherol and usually at 400 iu.
Except for d-alpha tocopherol all the other isomers are expressed as mg not iu's. This is the convention being used and not one of AOR's making.

Ortho Core per 6 capsules contains roughly 20 iu's of d-alpha tocopherol and of course around 90mg of the remaining isomers. There is NO conversion of mg into iu for these other isomers.

Total E contains roughly 3 and half times the total tocopherol as Ortho core and five times the tocotrienol i.e. 365mg of total tocopherols and 50mg of tocotrienols compared to 100mg of tocopherols (of which 20mg is d-aplha tocopherol as 20 iu) andf 10mg of tocotrienols.

All in all if you were to take 6 caps of Ortho Core and 1 capsule of Totale E you would be getting around 85 iu of d-alpha tocopherol and 465 mg of total tocopherols and 60mg of tocotrienols. This dose is still acceptable and safe and much higher doses of tocpherol and tocotrienols have been clinically used.

In short yes one can combine both products safely.

AOR Tech"

As you can see MrHappy I can combine both products and according to this information taking high quantities of Vitamin E (as you suggested) is safe. In your opinion if I take 6 capsules daily of Ortho Core + 1 capsule of Total E, should be enough or should I need to take more capsules of Total E??

Thanks

[choqueiro]

I have just received right now another email from AOR (another departament). This is what they answer me:

"Hello Juan, thank you for your email and your interest in AOR products.

There are 8 forms of Vitamin E that make up complete Vitamin E:

alpha-tocopherol
beta-tocopherol
gamma-tocopherol
delta-tocopherol
alpha-tocotrienol
beta-tocotrienol
gamma-tocotrienol
delta-tocotrienol

However, only alpha-tocopherol (and its derivatives/synthetic versions) is recognized by most governing agencies. This means that International Units have only been established for alpha tocopherol and not for the other 7 forms. This means that we can only tell you how many IUs of Vitamin E in terms of alpha tocopherol are in the products, because IUs have not been assigned to the others.

In Canada, Health Canada has established that 1000mg of alpha-tocopherol is the Tolerable Upper Limit (which is 1490 IU), but that 15mg (22 IU) is the Recommended Dietary Allowance.

Therefore, in Ortho Core, there is about 22 IU of alpha-tocopherol. However, there is certainly quite a bit more vitamin E in there in other forms. In Total E, there is about 68 mg or 98 IU of alpha-tocopherol, but again, more vitamin E in other forms. So if you take both supplements, you will be well under the Tolerable Upper Limit for vitamin E as alpha tocopherol and well over the Recommended Dietary Allowance.

However, the Total E indication is to take 1 capsule per day, but to take another capsule for each 200 IU of alpha-tocopherol taken. Since Total E contains more of all 8 forms of vitamin E than Ortho Core, you should be safe taking up to 6 capsules of Ortho Core and 1 capsule of Total E per day. The most important thing is that alpha-tocopherol is taken in a balance manner with the other 7 forms of vitamin E, and they are balanced in each of these products.

I hope this helps. If you have further questions, please feel free to email tech@aor.ca.

Sincerely,
Justine Florence

Advanced Orthomolecular Research Inc.
Technical Writer
Product Information & Technical Support
3900-12th St NE
Calgary, AB T2E 8H9
Tel: (403) 250-9997 or 1-800-387-0177, ext 4998
Fax: (403) 250-9974 or 1-877-219-9974
Justine@aor.ca

[MrHappy]

Yep, that sounds about right.

[sevenTH]

Aboout E vitamin, does not alpha tocopherol interfere with tocotrienols benefits ? Would be fine that to order a delta-gamma tocotrienol supplement ?

Great thread MrHappy !

[MrHappy]

Well, the patent I was reading specified a tocopherol, but it's older than all the recent research around tocotrienols, which show them as superior to tocopherols.

In short, if you have a tocotrienol available, I'd probably use it.

[sevenTH]

The intended purpose of supplementing with UMP is for my mom who was diagnosticated 3 years ago with Alzheimer, hence as much as i wish supplements would help, it is very unlikely it would help with the true cause . I have ordered already DHA/EPA , Basic B Complex, methyl B12 1000mcg, and UMP 300 mg form .
Wondering if I should give her plain choline or Phosphatidylcholine instead of ALCAR or adding at least Choline to ALCAR .
UMP 300 2 times daily would be enough along with the B complex, methylcobalamin, DHA-EPA , delta-gamma tocotrienols as cofactors ?

Also , about UMP , are we looking for the monophosphate form or aim for the salt form ? Maybe I'm wrong, but could be this what we are looking for ?

Edited by manic_racetam, 13 February 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[choqueiro]

Hi MrHappy

I have just done the order. Finally:

1) "Uridine" from Superior Nutraceuticals (25 gram).
2) "Alpha GPC" from AOR (250 grams per capsule).
3) "DHA 1000" from Nordic Naturals.
4) Multivitamin "Ortho Core" from AOR.
5) Vitamin E "Total E" from AOR.

Daily Regime:

1) Uridine: 250 mg
2) Alpha GPC: 500 mg (2 capsules)
3) DHA: 1800 mg DHA and 360 mg EPA (2 capsules)
4) Multivitamin: (6 capsules)
5) Vitamin E: (1 capsule)

Questions:

a) I must take them all together??
b) Do you recommend me to take only one dose of 250 mg. of Uridine or should I take 250 mg. two times daily?? (Some people are taking 500 mg daily).
c) Is a must to take the Uridine on empty stomach or I can take it after having breakfast??
d) I suffer from depression. Should I start to try Uridine without the Alpha GPC in your opinion??

Thanks so much. I will report how it goes.

[MrHappy]

Hey Choqueiro

If you are taking the uridine sublingually, it'll be more effective to do that separate from meals, etc. and you could try 2 times per day.
Alpha-gpc is also water soluble. Empty stomach would be better, but not critical.
The fat-soluble components, like DHA, E, etc are usually best absorbed with a nice fatty meal, so take them before, eg. breakfast.

I tend not to care too much - I take the uridine sublingually, then 15 minutes later, use the bulk powders in a glass of water to wash down everything else.. then have breakfast 15 minutes later. Voila.

For depression, I'd possibly leave out the alpha-gpc for the first week or so, then gradually phase it in, starting at eg. 100mg or thereabouts and work up to 500mg, so you can see if it agrees with you.

Hope you do well!

[ScienceGuy]

I have located a full paper on why you would take DHA,EPA + UMP/TAU together. Take a look at the actual phospholipid increases shown in table 2 / page 4. *WOW*.

http://wurtmanlab.mi...ic/pdf/1037.pdf

Hey MrHappy,

Nice one!

[ScienceGuy]

Sorry, I didn't have the attention span to read through the entire thread, but as someone who suffers from ADD, OCD, depression and sleep problems, I'm definitely interested in trying Uridine ..

Just a couple of questions:

1) Did anyone here who felt worse on DHA as a standalone supplement feel better on the combination? I'm not sure, but I feel like DHA (from neuromins) makes me feel a little more depressed; I also tried a high-DHA fish oil supp. which seemed to increase my anxiety.

If you react badly to taking DHA by itself that is a clear indication that you DON'T NEED OR WANT to take any supplementary DHA. If you had a fatty acid profile analysis lab test carried out you would probably find you are one of those people (like me) who's DHA and EPA levels are both FINE and in fact, taking more is NOT actually a good idea. This is something the majority of people do not realise or understand; you only want to take EPA and DHA IF you need to, and some people DON'T. Too much of anything is bad. If you already have enough you don't want to take more.

This is mostly influenced and determined by a particular person's dietary intake of EPA and DHA, and their particular requirements, over the long-term.

Therefore, I come back to the point that if you react badly to taking DHA by itself that is your body sending you a very clear indication that you DON'T NEED OR WANT to take any supplementary DHA; the same goes for EPA.

TOO MUCH EPA and DHA can induce undesirable side effects including INCREASES in ANXIETY and DEPRESSION and INSOMNIA which you DON'T WANT.

I personally take URIDINE without any DHA and I am finding its effects to be most profound; hence, my advice is that if you don't get along with DHA (like me) then DON'T TAKE IT... i.e. take the URIDINE without any DHA.

2) I can't tolerate methylfolate either (causes anxiety, agitation); could I get away without supplementing it?

YES.

As per the DHA and EPA, if you react badly to methylfolate that is a very clear indication that you already have more than enough folate since too much folate can induce anxiety, restlessness, agitation and insomnia.

The only other possibility as to why you react badly to methylfolate is that you are overmethylated, in which case you might like to try taking the FOLINIC ACID form of folate instead to determine which is the case; if you still react badly to that then you are not overmethylated, it is definitely the folate that you already have enough of and hence take the URIDINE without any additional folate, since you DON'T NEED IT.

However, if you find you can take the FOLINIC ACID form of folate without reacting badly to it, then its the methylation that you already have enough of, and hence you can take the supplementary folate, but as the FOLINIC ACID form, and avoid the methyl form.

would just a b-complex (Jarrow's b-right) do?

Again, you only want to supplement with the B vitamins IF YOU NEED TO.

Try taking a B complex (or open the capsule up and take a portion of the contents only) and see how you react; if you react badly (e.g. anxiety etc.) then you don't need any more, and hence take the URIDINE without it.

I was planning to avoid choline since it's reportedly not so great for OCD or depression.

The word you are looking for is MODERATION. Choline has a negative bell curve when it comes to inducing depression and/or anxiety, in that both TOO LITTLE and TOO MUCH can induce depression and/or anxiety. The trick is to ascertain what is the right dosage FOR YOU; and this is done simply by starting at a very low dose, say 50mg (of actual choline, not the raw material) and see how you respond. There will be a threshold above which you start to feel depressed; find what that is and stick to a dosage that is below it. Personally I only need to supplement with 100mg CHOLINE and that is when taking high doses of RACETAMS which increase CHOLINE requirements; with that dosage my mood is outstanding, however above that dosage I start to get depressed.

Edited by ScienceGuy, 12 January 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[stillwater]

I placed an order with superior nutraceuticals 12 days ago, hopefully it arrives soon.

My plan each morning is to take some sublingually with Vitamin E , CDP Choline and fish oil, as soon as I wake up and then do a short 20 minute jog, come home and complete the rest of my vitamin routine with some virgin olive oil and head to work.

Fingers crossed that it works and I don't have to snort rails of powdered lionsmane as well, as I have a deviated septum.

I'll post my update in a week or two.

[Zippy123]

HI All,

Can someone please help me?

My Uridine arrived today. I purchased the Cardiovascular Research brand from capusled from Pure Formula. This is my anticpated stack:

1) Uridine (25 mg capsules)
2) Fish Oil 1000 = Life's Abundance
3) Multivitamin = Dr. Whitakers Forward Nutrition - contains more fish oil as well as vitamin e among others
4) CoQ10 = Jarrow's
5) B-Right = Jarrow's (I am B deficient)
6) Vitamin D3 = Jarrow's (I am D deficient)
7) Pycnogenol = Whole Foods Brand (I am smart deficient)
8) Rhodiola 200 mg's = Natures Way
9) ALCAR = Jarrow's
10) Zoloft = 150 mg's

I take the Rhodiola and ALCAR first thing in the am. After 30 minutes I eat breakfast and take the rest of the stack minus the Zoloft. The Zoloft I take before bed. Do I need to add anything else? I think I get enough B but do I need extra E? I eat a lot of eggs so can I go without the choline? I presently take GET SMART which has Piracetam and Antiracetam in it and I don't suffer any headaches.

I ordered some Piracetam and Antiracetam which also arrived today but I will wait a few weeks before I add that in.

I have depression and ADHD and will gladly report my experiences back. Thank you in advance for your help. Be well - Z