2844 replies to this topic

[Philosopher]

It wonderful to see uridine treating all of these maladies! However, I am a bit uneased to think that uridine treats, or "cures", bipolar disorder. I regard manic-depression as a gift. A beautiful gift of creativity that separates a person from the many trillions of other lives that are walking around like little ants.

Anything that will hinder my creativity I try to steer away from. However, I will try uridine and observe what effects it has.

Creativity is the end all, for me of course.

If you consider bipolar a gift, then either you know absolutely nothing about bipolar or are living in your own little fantasy world.

Everyone lives in their own little fantasy world. There is no reality.

Speaking reasonably however, many of the greatest people in history were thought to be bipolar.Of course, greatness is relative to each person, as are gifts. What may be a gift to one person may be trash to another.

It's amusing seeing someone barking at something it doesn't understand.

[Hebbeh]

It wonderful to see uridine treating all of these maladies! However, I am a bit uneased to think that uridine treats, or "cures", bipolar disorder. I regard manic-depression as a gift. A beautiful gift of creativity that separates a person from the many trillions of other lives that are walking around like little ants.

Anything that will hinder my creativity I try to steer away from. However, I will try uridine and observe what effects it has.

Creativity is the end all, for me of course.

If you consider bipolar a gift, then either you know absolutely nothing about bipolar or are living in your own little fantasy world.

Everyone lives in their own little fantasy world. There is no reality.

Speaking reasonably however, many of the greatest people in history were thought to be bipolar.Of course, greatness is relative to each person, as are gifts. What may be a gift to one person may be trash to another.

It's amusing seeing someone barking at something it doesn't understand.

It's easy to pull things out of thin air. References don't exist that any of the "great" people of history were bipolar. Highly unlikely. The reality is that you have no idea what it entails to be bipolar. If you did, you would realize what a struggle life can be for the bipolar. Suicide is more common than achieving any level of "greatness" for a bipolar individual. It's not amusing....but it's obvious you don't understand. I could believe that there is no reality for you though.

[MrHappy]

Choqueiro - I stopped alpha-gpc for 3 weeks and didn't see anything similar to that thread. I also note they were taking 1200mg. Alpha-gpc can be hit-and-miss with people, so ALCAR could always be an option for you if it becomes an issue.

Philosopher - I'm generally rather motivated - I run a business that employs 9 people. This is the first time I've had an urge to do anything slightly artistic in 20 years... These are my very first attempts at expressing myself this way and I've never had any training..

The snowman - he was fun. He was the superhero of the snowed-over icerink that day.

The snowwoman - the 'madonna and child' has certainly been done throughout the ages, but it just called to me as I was making it - I didn't set out with any idea in mind. Perhaps it was a few weeks of sight-seeing in various historical places/churches in Europe still floating around in my subconscious?

The drawing - my wife was sitting next to me, reading a book on the train to pass the journey and the light was coming in from the window behind her. I had to draw it. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

In essence, I feel creativity is about expression of new ideas and although there is nothing original about my expression, the 'new idea' for me was even just to 'do something different'... it's a beginning.

[absent minded]

Does this chart suggest that people who take orotate compounds e.g. magnesium or lithium orotates need less uridine supplementation or none at all ?

http://pathman.smpdb...pathway?level=3

[matter_of_time]

does anyone ad cytidine to the stack?

[stephen_b]

I've decided to join in the fun and am on day 3 of taking 250 mg UMP sublingually. I've noticed a little weight gain, which I attribute to uridine helping with glycogen repletion (I'm a distance runner, so I consider this a good thing, especially if my times improve ).

I did notice a bit more follow-through on Friday, but I've really just started out.

Edited by stephen_b, 22 January 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[nbourbaki]

Today was my 10th day taking 250mg UMP sublingually. For me the effect is subtle. A little more focus and a little less depressed and anxious. The effect is a positive and I will continue to see where this goes. In addition to the UMP:

4,000mg Flax seed oil
500mg Vit C
Thiamin 50mg
Riboflavin 50mg
Niacin 50mg
B6 125mg
Folate 400mcg
B12 1100mcg
Biotin 300mcg
Pantothenic Acid 200mg
Choline 50mg
Creatine 5gm
CoQ10 400mg
2 Now Gamma-E Complex
Time Release Melatonin 9mg

[MrHappy]

does anyone ad cytidine to the stack?

No - it'd only be converted to uridine, anyway..
Edit: typo

Edited by MrHappy, 23 January 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[choqueiro]

First day taking Uridine.

Firstly I took 250 mg. Uridine UMP sublingually.
15 minutes later I took 2 capsules of "DHA 1000" (Nordic Naturals) + 6 capsules of "Ortho Core" (AOR) + 1 capsule of "Total E" (AOR).
I avoid Alpha GPC. During the first week I´m not going to take it (I suffer from depression).

Let´s hope to experiment the benefits. How many days MrHappy until see any benefits or take any conclusion??

Thanks

[malden]

hey Choquerio

Where have you buy your ump uridine? (where both from the EU, many schops i have visit have ridiculeus high schipping price"s, or they dont send to the EU)

Thanks en greetings

[truboy]

TOO MUCH EPA and DHA can induce undesirable side effects including INCREASES in ANXIETY and DEPRESSION and INSOMNIA which you DON'T WANT.

I personally take URIDINE without any DHA and I am finding its effects to be most profound; hence, my advice is that if you don't get along with DHA (like me) then DON'T TAKE IT... i.e. take the URIDINE without any DHA.
however above that dosage I start to get depressed.

+1 here. Fish oil while giving me motivation/energy for couple of days resulted in ANXIETY. Social interactions become much more difficult.
But uridine had good effect on me. Energy/motivation/better sleep at night/better mood/creativity.

Currently i am taking uridine+piracetam+lecithiin+multivitamin.

[csrpj]

^ good to know about the fish oil. looks like the best protocol is to first find an ideal epa/dha dosage for oneself and then add in the rest.

about TAU vs UMP... aside from the difference in ROA, costs, etc -- given they are compared at a dosage/route equalized for potency -- then is there any difference?

[Philosopher]

TOO MUCH EPA and DHA can induce undesirable side effects including INCREASES in ANXIETY and DEPRESSION and INSOMNIA which you DON'T WANT.

I personally take URIDINE without any DHA and I am finding its effects to be most profound; hence, my advice is that if you don't get along with DHA (like me) then DON'T TAKE IT... i.e. take the URIDINE without any DHA.
however above that dosage I start to get depressed.

+1 here. Fish oil while giving me motivation/energy for couple of days resulted in ANXIETY. Social interactions become much more difficult.
But uridine had good effect on me. Energy/motivation/better sleep at night/better mood/creativity.

Currently i am taking uridine+piracetam+lecithiin+multivitamin.

How exactly does it better your creativity? It's hard to believe something that will "fix" my bipolar will also enhance my creativity. I have a bulk of uridine coming soon, I don't want my life to go to waste.

[nito]

So just keep up the uridine combo and taper off the nicotine at a leisurely pace (at least at first) and see how you feel?

10% less per week, perhaps.. Unless you are feeling good and want to taper off faster?

hey Mr happy. Basically im thinking of trying nicotine gums to help me cut down on tobacco. Did you say nicotine competes with uridine? If that's so then even stop smoking aid would ruin my progress right? It's like double edged sword :(

[JChief]

So just keep up the uridine combo and taper off the nicotine at a leisurely pace (at least at first) and see how you feel?

10% less per week, perhaps.. Unless you are feeling good and want to taper off faster?

hey Mr happy. Basically im thinking of trying nicotine gums to help me cut down on tobacco. Did you say nicotine competes with uridine? If that's so then even stop smoking aid would ruin my progress right? It's like double edged sword :(

Yeah it competes as does caffeine I hear. So you don't think you could try and stop for just 10 days and see where you stand? Easier said than done. I know people end up quitting when they are good n ready.

[choqueiro]

Hi malden.

I bought mine in "Superior Nutraceuticals" (see: http://www.superiorn...5/merchant.mvc?) Yes, it´s really expensive. I bought 25 grams for 44.99 $. The problem are the shipment costs: 29.25 $ (U.S.P.S Priority Mail International).

In the thread someone suggested some shops (one from France) for UE buyers. I didn´t bought in those shops, because I want to try powder form and not capsules form (Cardiovascular Research sells UMP Uridine in capsules form).

If Uridine suits with me, I will need to find a cheep seller or maybe I will buy Superior Nutraceuticals Uridine, but the 250 grams powder. This one costs 249.99 $ and shipment costs are 38.85 $.

[MrHappy]

So just keep up the uridine combo and taper off the nicotine at a leisurely pace (at least at first) and see how you feel?

10% less per week, perhaps.. Unless you are feeling good and want to taper off faster?

hey Mr happy. Basically im thinking of trying nicotine gums to help me cut down on tobacco. Did you say nicotine competes with uridine? If that's so then even stop smoking aid would ruin my progress right? It's like double edged sword :(

How are you feeling, though? I'd be thinking you are already going down that track -there was a patent I linked a while back, using uridine + adenosine (from memory) as a quit-smoking aid..

This was also a good read:
http://molpharm.aspe.../4/925.full.pdf

[MrHappy]

Haven't posted up some research for a while.. this was interesting:
http://www.researchg...ponses_in_vitro


A specific multi-nutrient formulation enhances M1 muscarinic acetylcholine receptor responses in vitro

Paul Jm Savelkoul, Mandy Mp Merkes, Helena Janieckova, Almar Am Kuipers, Robert Jj Hageman, Patrick J Kamphuis, Vladimir Dolezal, Laus M Broersen
Nutricia Advanced Medical Nutrition, Danone Research, Centre for Specialised Nutrition, Wageningen, The Netherlands Institute of Physiology, Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, Prague, Czech Republic Utrecht Institute for Pharmaceutical Sciences (UIPS), University Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Journal of neurochemistry (impact factor: 4). 12/2011; DOI: 10.1111/j.1471-4159.2011.07616.x
Abstract

Recent evidence indicates that supplementation with a specific combination of nutrients may affect cell membrane synthesis and composition. In order to investigate whether such nutrients may also modify the physical properties of membranes, and affect membrane-bound processes involved in signal transduction pathways, we studied the effects of nutrient supplementation on G protein-coupled receptor (GPCR) activation in vitro. In particular, we investigated muscarinic receptors, which are important for the progression of memory deterioration and pathology of Alzheimer's disease. Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) differentiated pheochromocytoma cells (PC12) that were supplemented with specific combinations of nutrients showed enhanced responses to muscarinic receptor agonists in a membrane potential assay. The largest effects were obtained with a combination of nutrients known as Fortasyn™ Connect (FC), comprising docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), uridine monophosphate (UMP) as a uridine source, choline, vitamin B6, vitamin B12, folic acid, phospholipids, vitamin C, vitamin E, and selenium. In subsequent experiments it was shown that the effects of supplementation could not be attributed to single nutrients. In addition, it was shown that the agonist-induced response and the supplement-induced enhancement of the response were blocked with the muscarinic receptor antagonists atropine, telenzepine, and AF-DX 384. In order to determine whether the effects of FC supplementation were receptor subtype specific, we investigated binding properties and activation of human muscarinic M1, M2 and M4 receptors in stably transfected Chinese hamster ovary (CHO) cells after supplementation. Multi-nutrient supplementation did not change M1 receptor density in plasma membranes. However, M1 receptor-mediated G protein activation was significantly enhanced. In contrast, supplementation of M2- or M4-expressing cells did not affect receptor signaling. Taken together, these results indicate that a specific combination of nutrients acts synergistically in enhancing muscarinic M1 receptor responses, probably by facilitating receptor-mediated G protein activation.

[nupi]

Isn't the Uridine/DHA/EPA/AGPC combo supposed to help with sleep?

I feel like my insomnia got worse over the past couple of days. For the few weeks prior to that, I almost never woke up and could not get back to sleep in the middle of the night but that happened to me three times in a row now :( I was also very (physically) anxious for the past couple of days, mood/thinking seemed mostly ok

[choqueiro]

Hi MrHappy.

It´s my second day on Uridine. Today I´m going to double the dose of Uridine. I took 250 mg. a few hours ago and in the afternoon I´m going to take 250 mg. more.

In your case, how many days until see any effects?? 10 days??

Thanks

[JChief]

Isn't the Uridine/DHA/EPA/AGPC combo supposed to help with sleep?

I feel like my insomnia got worse over the past couple of days. For the few weeks prior to that, I almost never woke up and could not get back to sleep in the middle of the night but that happened to me three times in a row now :( I was also very (physically) anxious for the past couple of days, mood/thinking seemed mostly ok

I never experienced insomnia on uridine but if I got to bed late in the day after working the night shift, and didn't have any melatonin to take to re-adjust my sleep cycle, I noticed that the uridine combination did a great job of making me feel like I still got a good nights sleep. Also, I have not come across any studies that indicate that uridine may contribute to insomnia.

[MrHappy]

Nupi - maybe try less a-gpc/EPA+DHA in your case. Uridine alone will certainly help with sleep, but you might not be needing as much of these two... see what happens - as always, individual circumstances will vary, so it may need some adjustments.

Choqueiro - if you haven't seen anything good or bad, just stick to the plan and take it easy.. It usually takes at least 6 days to settle down.. Too much uridine can be less effective, also.

[JChief]

Hi MrHappy.

It´s my second day on Uridine. Today I´m going to double the dose of Uridine. I took 250 mg. a few hours ago and in the afternoon I´m going to take 250 mg. more.

In your case, how many days until see any effects?? 10 days??

Thanks

10 days is about the sweet spot. Some will notice positive changes sooner. Another thing is to ensure that something wont interfere with your result (be it Rx drugs, cigarettes, racetams etc). That 250mg dose I assume is UMP and taken sublingual correct? If so, that dose should produce some effects by about the 10 day mark for lots of people. Also, are you taking any of the cofactors (omega 3s, b vitamins, vit e, etc)?

Edited by JChief, 24 January 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[JChief]

Choqueiro -[..] Too much uridine can be less effective, also.

That's a good point. I'd try sticking with a single 250 UMP dose per day sublingual to start as twice per day would be a pretty hefty dose in my opinion. The TAU that I am taking @ 100mg oral when I first get up sometimes feels quite powerful in that I feel very "serene" and its very serotonin-y to me if that makes sense haha. I remember, Happy, you saying that it made you feel a bit too Zen like. But there is a phase of several hours where I will get a more prominent mood boost about 45 min or so after my TAU+fish oil combo. This eventually subsides and even as the day presses on I notice a fairly positive disposition/less stressed. Just a couple things I noticed that I figured I'd point out is all.

Edited by JChief, 24 January 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[MrHappy]

Finding the sweet spot is always the key.

[MrHappy]

More research. Looks like ATP and UTP have positive effects on leukemia as well as stem cell production:
http://www.researchg...odeficient_mice


Purinergic signaling inhibits human acute myeloblastic leukemia cell proliferation, migration and engraftment in immunodeficient mice

Valentina Salvestrini, Roberta Zini, Lara Rossi, Sara Gulinelli, Rossella Manfredini, Elisa Bianchi, Wanda Piacibello, Luisa Caione, Giorgia Migliardi, Maria Rosaria Ricciardi, Agostino Tafuri, Marco Romano, Simona Salati, Francesco Di Virgilio, Sergio Ferrari, Michele Baccarani, Davide Ferrari, Roberto M Lemoli
Department of Hematology and Oncological Sciences "L. & A. Seragnoli", University of Bologna and S. Orsola-Malpighi Hospital, Bologna, Italy;
Blood (impact factor: 10.56). 11/2011; DOI: 10.1182/blood-2011-07-370775
Abstract

Extracellular adenosine-triphosphate (ATP) and uridine-triphosphate (UTP) nucleotides increase the proliferation and engraftment potential of normal human hematopoietic stem cells via the engagement of purinergic receptors (P2Rs). Here, we show that ATP or UTP have strikingly opposite effects on human acute myeloblastic leukemia (AML) cells. Leukemic cells express P2Rs. ATP-stimulated leukemic cells, but not normal CD34(+) cells, undergo down-regulation of genes involved in cell proliferation and migration whereas cell cycle inhibitors are up-regulated. Functionally, ATP induced the inhibition of proliferation and accumulation of AML cells, but not of normal cells, in the G(0) phase of cell cycle. Exposure to ATP or UTP inhibited AML cell migration in vitro. In vivo, xenotransplant experiments demonstrated that the homing and the engraftment capacity of AML blasts and CD34(+)CD38(-) cells to immunodeficient mice bone marrow was significantly inhibited by pre-treatment with nucleotides. P2Rs expression analysis and pharmacological profile suggest that the inhibition of proliferation by ATP was mediated by the down-regulation of the P2X7R, which is up-regulated on untreated blasts, while the inhibition of chemotaxis was mainly mediated via P2Y2R and P2Y4R subtypes. Thus, conversely to normal cells, P2Rs signaling inhibits leukemic cells and its pharmacologic modulation may represent a novel therapeutic strategy.

[MrHappy]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/50393712_Uridine_Function_in_the_Central_Nervous_System

Uridine Function in the Central Nervous System

Arpád Dobolyi, Gábor Juhász, Zsolt Kovács, Julianna Kardo
Laboratory of Neuromorphology, Department of Anatomy, Histology and Embryology, Semmelweis University, Tüzolto u. 58, Budapest, H-1094, Hungary. .
Current topics in medicinal chemistry (impact factor: 4.47). 03/2011;
Abstract

In the adult nervous system, the major source of nucleotide synthesis is the salvage pathway. Uridine is the major form of pyrimidine nucleosides taken up by the brain. Uridine is phosphorylated to nucleotides, which are used for DNA and RNA synthesis as well as for the synthesis of membrane constituents and glycosylation. Uridine nucleotides and UDP-sugars may be released from neuronal and glial cells. Plasmamembrane receptors of 7 transmembrane domains have been identified that recognize UTP, UDP, and UDP-sugar conjugates. These receptors are called P2Y2 and P2Y4, P2Y6, and P2Y14 receptors, respectively. In addition, binding sites for uridine itself have also been suggested. Furthermore, uridine administration had sleep-promoting and anti-epileptic actions, improved memory function and affected neuronal plasticity. Information only starts to be accumulating on potential mechanisms of these uridine actions. Some data are available on the topographical distribution of pyrimidine receptors and binding sites in the brain, however, their exact role in neuronal functions is not established yet. There is also a scarcity of data regarding the brain distribution of other components of the pyrimidine metabolism although site specific functions exerted by their receptors might require different metabolic support. Despite the gaps in our knowledge on the neuronal functions of pyrimidine nucleosides, their therapeutic utilization is appealing. They have been suggested for the treatment of epileptic and neurodegenerative diseases as neuroprotective agents. In addition, the development of traditional drugs acting specifically on pyrimidine receptor subtypes is also promising as a new direction to treat neurological disorders.

[choqueiro]

Thanks JChief.

Yes I´m taking 250 mg. daily of UMP Uridine from Superior Nutraceuticals and I take it sublingual. I don´t smoke. No drugs or racetams. I don´t drink also coffee. I take all the cofactors:

- 2 capsules per day of "DHA 1000" from Nordic Naturals (1800 mg DHA - 360 mg EPA)
- 6 capsules per day of the multivitamin "Ortho Core" from AOR.
- 1 capsule per day of "Total E" from AOR.

Right now I´m not taking Alpha GPC. I´m going to wait one week following the recommendations of MrHappy because I suffer from depression. Even though, one year ago when I was trying Piracetam + Choline I experimented with different quantities. One day I took 2000 mg of Alpha GPC and I don´t feel anything (positive or negative).

Ok. I´ll continue with my actual regime and I´m not going to double the dose of Uridine. Let´s hope that the stack suits with me. Right now, after two days, I haven´t experimented anything and I continue with my "common" issues: brain fog, memory issues, anxiety, depression, irritability, poor verbal fluency, etc.

Thanks so much

[MrHappy]

UTP as an anti-parasitic for sandfly infection:
http://www.researchg...iated_apoptosis

Infection with Leishmania amazonensis upregulates purinergic receptor expression and induces host-cell susceptibility to UTP-mediated apoptosis

Camila Marques-da-Silva, Mariana M Chaves, Suzana Passos Chaves, Vanessa Ribeiro Figliuolo, José Roberto Meyer-Fernandes, Suzana Corte-Real, Claudiana Lameu, Henning Ulrich, David M Ojcius, Bartira Rossi-Bergmann, Robson Coutinho-Silva
Laboratory of Immunophysiology Laboratory of Imunopharmacology, Biophysics Institute Carlos Chagas Filho, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro RJ, 21941-902, Brazil. Laboratory of Structural Biology of Oswaldo Cruz Institute - FIOCRUZ, Rio de Janeiro, 21045-900, Brazil. Center for Applied Toxinology CAT-CEPID, Instituto Butantan, São Paulo, Brazil. Department of Biochemistry, Chemistry Institute, São Paulo University, São Paulo, Brazil. Health Sciences Research Institute and School of Natural Sciences, University of California, Merced, CA 95343, USA. Department of Medical Biochemistry, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, RJ, Brazil.
Cellular microbiology (impact factor: 5.73). 09/2011; 13(9):1410-1428. DOI: 10.1111/j.1462-5822.2011.01630.x
Abstract

Nucleotides are released into the extracellular milieu from infected cells and cells at inflammatory sites. The extracellular nucleotides bind to specific purinergic (P2) receptors and thereby induce a variety of cellular responses including anti-parasitic effects. Here we investigated whether extracellular nucleotides affect leishmanial infection in macrophages, and found that UTP reduces strongly the parasite load in peritoneal macrophages. Ultrastructural analysis of infected cells revealed that UTP induced morphological damage in the intracellular parasites. Uridine nucleotides also induced dose-dependent apoptosis of macrophages and production of ROI and RNI only in infected macrophages. The intracellular calcium measurements of infected cells showed that the response to UTP, but not UDP, increased the sensitivity and amplitude of cytosolic Ca(2+) changes. Infection of macrophages with Leishmania upregulated the expression of P2Y(2) and P2Y(4) receptor mRNA. The data suggest indirectly that Leishmania amazonensis infection induces modulation and heteromerization of P2Y receptors on macrophages. Thus UTP modulates the host response against L. amazonensis infection. UTP and UTP homologues should therefore be considered as novel components of therapeutic strategies against cutaneous leishmaniasis.

[MrHappy]

Thanks JChief.

Yes I´m taking 250 mg. daily of UMP Uridine from Superior Nutraceuticals and I take it sublingual. I don´t smoke. No drugs or racetams. I don´t drink also coffee. I take all the cofactors:

- 2 capsules per day of "DHA 1000" from Nordic Naturals (1800 mg DHA - 360 mg EPA)
- 6 capsules per day of the multivitamin "Ortho Core" from AOR.
- 1 capsule per day of "Total E" from AOR.

Right now I´m not taking Alpha GPC. I´m going to wait one week following the recommendations of MrHappy because I suffer from depression. Even though, one year ago when I was trying Piracetam + Choline I experimented with different quantities. One day I took 2000 mg of Alpha GPC and I don´t feel anything (positive or negative).

Ok. I´ll continue with my actual regime and I´m not going to double the dose of Uridine. Let´s hope that the stack suits with me. Right now, after two days, I haven´t experimented anything and I continue with my "common" issues: brain fog, memory issues, anxiety, depression, irritability, poor verbal fluency, etc.

Thanks so much

After 2 weeks, if you're not responding as other have, then try doubling the UMP dose.. Hebbeh did well with that.