2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Rogerthat - I'd think you'd be able to take roughly 60% less adderall and possibly still get the same effects.

[MrHappy]

Csrpj - not for me.

Could be a couple of things for autocratica, thinking about it - sensitivity to fishoil = reduced testosterone, etc.. Or perhaps something else / unrelated?

It may just settle back in with time. I'd just wait and see.

[rogerthat]

Rogerthat - I'd think you'd be able to take roughly 60% less adderall and possibly still get the same effects.

Effect of uridine of presynaptic NMDA and kainate receptor of rat brain cortex
Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine (March 2008), 145 (3), pg. 320-322

It was demonstrated that uridine affects presynaptic NMDA and kainite receptors of rat brain cortex. Uridine considerably inhibited ⁴⁵Ca²⁺ uptake into synaptoneurosomes (IC₅₀=7.1×10⁻¹² M) under conditions NMDA stimulation and increased it under conditions AMPA stimulation (157.8%).

Any thoughts how this might interact with stimulants? Particularly Adderall/Dexedrine?

I am taking Lithium Orotate to reduce amphetamine tolerance rising and am a little concerned that tolerance may increase at a faster rate.

Wouldn't I want to reduce Ca2+ influx at all times though?

[MrHappy]

I would have thought preventing transient spikes, etc., would be the issue, not normal signalling?

[Lufega]

The bad thing is it has affected my Libido. where I can certainly preform sex but have no urgency to do so...unlike before I was taking it. I had a pretty good libido too.

I noticed the same effect. It definitely decreased my basal libido (I'm hypersexual and tend to be thorny all the time) but I didn't test this against a real life encounter. Been on a drought as of late, you see.... Honestly, it just made me not care about sex.

I also noticed that my memory recall was messed up. I was having a hard time recalling names and other things. Found that kind of odd. I'm only using 25 mg TAU with fish oil and a B-complex. I wasn't using vitamin E or a choline source (although I eat plenty of eggs). I am using pantothenic acid which would increase ACH anyways. I just got some vitamin E so I'll restart uridine once again.

I also suspect that caprylic acid or coconut oil would combine well with this protocol.

[MrHappy]

Try less fish oil?

[JChief]

With regard to libido I believe citicoline, caffeine & tyrosine in the from of NALT will produce an increase in libido/mood. I am currently on an off cycle of eurycoma longifolia and I discovered the libido-enhancing effect after taking a 5 hour energy (not that I was lethargic; it was given to me so I said what the heck because caffeine and piracetam have some "synergy" for me). Further, for the seriously depressed here or who might otherwise be having troubles responding I would recommend the best quality 5-HTP (derived from the seeds of the Griffonia Simplicifolia) and N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine as the effects on mood cannot be denied. I believe N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine is under-appreciated. Tyrosine comes in many forms. I can only suggest NALT. Also, see this post . I believe this would further address the dopaminergic aspects of libido. This is only a suggestion from personal experience.

Dr. W. Poldinger of the Psychiatrische Universitatsklinik in Basel, Switzerland conducted a double blind, multi-center controlled study. He used patients clinically diagnosed with depression. Dr. Poldinger found that after week 6, both the patients taking 100 mg of 5-HTP 3 times per day, and those taking 150 mg fluvoxamine (an SSRI) 3 times per day, had equal numbers showing about 50% improvement. But, 5-HTP proved to be better tolerated (less side effects) than the SSRI. And, 5-HTP had about an 11% lower failure rate than the SSRI group.

Ref:A functional-dimensional approach to depression: serotonin deficiency as a target syndrome in a comparison of 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) and fluvoxamine. Psychopathology. 1991,24:53-81

*Note: If you are taking an SSRI or antidepressant, check with your health-care provider before taking 5-HTP (or L-Tryptophan or any other supplement for that matter).

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[JChief]

Keep in mind that it has been stated here that uridine and caffeine allegedly compete. So take that into account as well. But I should also mention that although libido seems to go down a little bit in exchange for heightened sense of well-being I only feel that's the case only in the sense that sex does not dominate ones thoughts as much as usual. But when in the sack all has worked quite well just so you know. No dysfunction whatsoever folks. So I wouldn't worry too much just yet

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[choqueiro]

Let´s hope that the decreased libido is not a general side effect. It will be a serious problem.

Day 11. Nothing new (positive or negative). After taking all the cofactors I feel brain fogged.

[JChief]

The first thing I point the finger at when people mention "brain fog" is choline. I'd eliminate it for the time being if you are taking GPC/CDP etc. I'd give it a solid month before calling it quits but I believe libido is not decreased substantially. Also my view of it being lessened we might as well attribute to coming off eurycoma longifolia than anything. I was just noting what increased libido during that period of time.

[MrHappy]

As I recall, in the first couple of days that I started on uridine, ie. before the big changes, I had some brain fog - then it went away and I felt very good and was thinking very clearly. Maybe it has something to do with all the extra neurite and dendrite outgrowth, but I'm just thinking out loud... Could have just been adjusting to alpha-gpc, also.

[JChief]

Thanks for pointing that out, Happy. Certainly GPC may not be to blame for brain fog. It is an interesting supplement for many reasons but I experienced not only brain fog after taking it for over a month but also some neck tightness. Its role along with uridine and DHA etc should not be ignored given recent studies but, if giving it more time isn't an option, I just suggested giving it a rest to experiment. Since depression is the very reason many pursue this regimen and given that too much choline can have a depressant effect I just wanted to point out potential issues with regard to GPC specifically. I'd just hate to have a simple choline imbalance impede what otherwise might be a successful response to uridine in combination with omega 3s and other vitamins along with good diet and exercise. Also, for those that haven't caught up, chrono had a great post theorizing how ALCAR might fulfill the requirement for choline supplementation and is what I use in my regimen as an alternative to GPC for the reasons I explained.

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[MrHappy]

I agree.

I really would really like to help the non-responders make it work. I think some time, testing and adjustments should solve it.

[trance]

I agree.

I really would really like to help the non-responders make it work. I think some time, testing and adjustments should solve it.

I have a feeling that us "non-responders" may actually be more leveled out to begin with. From my own personal regime, and those I've read here of the "non-responders", we've already been running at optimum levels via diet, exercise, and supplements before uridine.

It seems uridine helps to fill in or bring up to "optimum" for those not already there. One of the reasons you've been suggesting the co-factors may also be in part due to their own indvidual effects that may not have already been optimum, and synchronicitical effects with uridine an added benefit.

This is all subjective of course, like the personal experiences most relay here. Uridine for about 8 weeks now, various doses, etc, and no noticeable differences, for me.

[JChief]

I agree.

I really would really like to help the non-responders make it work. I think some time, testing and adjustments should solve it.

I have a feeling that us "non-responders" may actually be more leveled out to begin with. From my own personal regime, and those I've read here of the "non-responders", we've already been running at optimum levels via diet, exercise, and supplements before uridine.

It seems uridine helps to fill in or bring up to "optimum" for those not already there. One of the reasons you've been suggesting the co-factors may also be in part due to their own indvidual effects that may not have already been optimum, and synchronicitical effects with uridine an added benefit.

This is all subjective of course, like the personal experiences most relay here. Uridine for about 8 weeks now, various doses, etc, and no noticeable differences, for me.

Well of course its as speculative as ever. As much as I'd like to believe I have eaten a better diet than most for the past several years, take the highest quality supplements I can find, and exercise (and probably lots of other awesome things) and therefore don't need any "adjusting" perhaps there is something in the responders brains that needs correcting/enhancing. If there's nothing in need of correcting then of course it stands reasonable to believe uridine's benefits may be hard to discern. My intinct tells me it's much more complicated than what you suggest but valid nevertheless. Using similar logic I would counter argue that for those non responders maybe the situation is so unoptimal that you needs several months of treatment before you notice a benefit . If you already feel good then may I ask why you took it? If you're looking for some euphoria then it won't help much. Did you combine with omega 3s? Just curious. I believe my moods can fluctuate somewhat and uridine may very well have evened me out enough to reflect on this fact. Self diagnosing is fruitless but cyclothymia is what'd I'd potentially label myself as having. Good nutrition can cure disease in some cases I would agree with you. It could also be said that feeling normal can feel great sometimes eh? Yeah

Edited by JChief, 03 February 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[csrpj]

^ if one is taking ALCAR in the context of uridine - or, in any instance - would one benefit from adding ALA/R-ALA or arginine?

[trance]

I agree.

I really would really like to help the non-responders make it work. I think some time, testing and adjustments should solve it.

I have a feeling that us "non-responders" may actually be more leveled out to begin with. From my own personal regime, and those I've read here of the "non-responders", we've already been running at optimum levels via diet, exercise, and supplements before uridine.

It seems uridine helps to fill in or bring up to "optimum" for those not already there. One of the reasons you've been suggesting the co-factors may also be in part due to their own indvidual effects that may not have already been optimum, and synchronicitical effects with uridine an added benefit.

This is all subjective of course, like the personal experiences most relay here. Uridine for about 8 weeks now, various doses, etc, and no noticeable differences, for me.

Well of course its as speculative as ever. As much as I'd like to believe I have eaten a better diet than most for the past several years, take the highest quality supplements I can find, and exercise (and probably lots of other awesome things) and therefore don't need any "adjusting" perhaps there is something in the responders brains that needs correcting/enhancing. If there's nothing in need of correcting then of course it stands reasonable to believe uridine's benefits may be hard to discern. My intinct tells me it's much more complicated than what you suggest but valid nevertheless. Using similar logic I would counter argue that for those non responders maybe the situation is so unoptimal that you needs several months of treatment before you notice a benefit . If you already feel good then may I ask why you took it? If you're looking for some euphoria then it won't help much. Did you combine with omega 3s? Just curious. I believe my moods can fluctuate somewhat and uridine may very well have evened me out enough to reflect on this fact. Self diagnosing is fruitless but cyclothymia is what'd I'd potentially label myself as having. Good nutrition can cure disease in some cases I would agree with you. It could also be said that feeling normal can feel great sometimes eh? Yeah

Of course, this entire process is subjective and speculative in either direction you wish to travel. And in that realm, I can say I feel nothing special from uridine -- that's all I was saying.

It's rare to "feel" anything with most supplements, but for example, I feel ALCAR's effects a few minutes after pouring it in my mouth; I notice a distinct "crispness" to my vision during the day when using magnesium L-threonate; my brain processes more efficiently with Lion's Mane, etc ... to name a few.

Many here seem to be looking for a cure for something, and placing uridine (for whatever various & valid reasons) on the pedestal of relief for some personal condition or ailment using the same subjective process. I'm positive uridine has helped some here just by reading the thread. Supplemental intake of uridine is likely more of a homeostatic regulator than anything else though.

Along with diet & exercise, I've taken omega-3s, supplements, and all the other recommended co-factors mentioned in this thread, years before I had even heard of uridine here recently. Give it more time? Perhaps ... but I feel fine either way, and was not looking for any magic bullet, euphoria, or for it to cure anything. Maybe it's filled in some gaps for me too, but it's not an effect that is noticeable to me. Maybe I will notice its effects more when I stop using it.

Why did (do) I take it? Just experimenting -- that's what this is all about. What if it did place me into infinite heightened euphoria, and I never even gave it the chance? ; )

Anyway, I was just reporting I feel nothing different after using it for a couple of months now. And thinking about it more, euphoria is also probably overrated.

[MrHappy]

An interesting take, but I'm not sure if you have or haven't read all the linked research, which would motivate you to test out the protocol to either treat a specific issue or just for general cognitive enhancement. There is a decent amount of supporting literature.

In my case, it started as the latter and I soon realised how much of a difference it made to stress levels, sleep and mood - without any side-effects or rebound issues. Was pretty amazed. Still am. It helps people feel normal (which can be difficult under stressful or bipolar conditions, etc!)

Now I am at the point where I'd like to delve further into the application of this protocol to determine exactly why it works for some and not for others - are we dealing with a different problem, or is it different genetics? If you're not actually trying to improve something, it's hard to categorise you as a non-responder.

[irving]

My order of uridine (TAU) just arrived today. Will try it first thing tomorrow morning, 50mg as a start dose. Can someone tell me how long it'll take to actually feel the effect?

Edited by irving, 04 February 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[Jr Cauton]

I just ordered uridine today. Can't wait to try it.

[Lufega]

My order of uridine (TAU) just arrived today. Will try it first thing tomorrow morning, 50mg as a start dose. Can someone tell me how long it'll take to actually feel the effect?

Wh

Why not start with 25 mg instead ?

[rg8032]

No offense is intended by the following. A sense of concern of concern has convinced me to offer intervention. The discussion seems to have given itself over to sophistry; however, by exercising self restraint we can save it.

Before I start I want to thank MrHappy for his cute screaming kitten avatar and for bringing uridine to my attention. Now that I have endeared myself to you, let me reverse that. Oh and sorry, X_Danny_X. Nothing personal.

Many men of science reading this thread from the first page to the last page might notice the telephone game that is being played. I find the morphing of opinion based on anecdotal evidence and tenuous theories very dangerous. Most of the people who come through this thread will not take the time to gain a basic understanding of what is being discussed and I believe many lack a basic knowledge of the scientific process.

Doubt is the most powerful concept in science and it is being eschewed for hope in this post. Thankfully, this combination of drugs/supplements (take your pick of terminology) seems relatively harmless, but what do I know. These kinds of fast-and-loose attitudes and specious 'theories' can lead to leading others to, at worst, do serious harm to themselves or just waste money and time. Be more careful please. Do not let your opinions masquerade as facts; qualify your statements properly.

An interesting take, but I'm not sure if you have or haven't read all the linked research [...] There is a decent amount of supporting literature.[...]

There is a some supporting literature. It even looks promising. After thoroughly reviewing the information, I decided to self-experiment. That being said, drawing set-in-stone conclusions from the evidence thus far presented is fallacious. Please show more restraint.

I read that but other vitamins were mentioned such as Vitamin C and B12. I wanted to know if melatonin can be used instead of Vitamin E. It is a powerful anti oxidant and life extension supplement. It goes after free radicals that attacks proporties that help weaken immune system.[...]

So without Vitamin E, Uridine, GPC, and DHA combo will be much weaker?[...]

These are the kinds of people that are taking some of this hearsay and running with it. No offense intended. Others in this thread also seem to not grasp some of the more basic workings of the human body.

Rogerthat - I'd think you'd be able to take roughly 60% less adderall and possibly still get the same effects.

Thankfully, this statement was qualified as an opinion. It seems unlikely that you would be able to predict this effect.

[...] What about Vitamin E?? Does it help with Uridine? Also does ALCAR contain vitamin E?

Uridine modulates dopamine, in both directions.

Vitamin E is important to the stack. [...]

1

OK, it has been a number of pages, so it probably is time for a recap/update anyway.

According to the various literature, you want both EPA and DHA, a cholinergic, a tocopherol, methylation cofactors, uridine, minerals.

So, morning dose:
200-300mg UMP, sublingually OR 75-100 TAU, orally
500mg a-gpc - substitute with alcar or cdp-choline, as preferred
400-600mg EPA
1500-2000mg DHA
1000IU+ vitamin E

400mcg folate
1mg b12 (yes, that is intentionally high, feel free not to megadose if you have objections)
RDA of zinc, calcium, magnesium, b1,2,3,6... A good multi should cover most of these.

If you are treating depression or anything dopamine related, feel free to delay adding the cholinergic for a week or 2, but you may not notice any issues at that dose of uridine, anyway.

2

I read no literature that made the claim that vitamin E in addition to uridine, DHA, and choline was desirable. There is some literature that pairs vitamin with uridine, DHA, and choline; however, no outright recommendations are made. The possibility that I missed this suggestion exists. Most of the recent literature has not been using vitamin E, but to draw a conclusion from that is fallacy.

Sounds like you are on the right track. The B vitamins are essential, make sure you are taking at least RDA. A good multi should also include calcium amd magnesium. Vitamin E is a good idea, also.
[...]

3

Here vitamin E is a good idea, but B vitamins are essential. Could just be poorly worded.

I think uridine has separate functions that occur prior to being converted into CDP.

Also, to clarify for people coming to this thread later -

[...]

Co-factors for uridine:
B group vitamins - 6, 9 (folate/folic acid), 12
-these are required to support the DNA methylation

DHA+EPA, Vitamin E
-required to increase BDNF, replenishing neural lipid membranes

Choline (alpha-gpc or cdp)
-required to increase acetylcholine levels

Dosages:
TAU is approximately 7 times more bioavailable than UMP. 25mg of TAU = 175mg of UMP approximately.
Sublingual doses (dissolved under the tongue and absorbed, not swallowed) are possibly 10x more bioavailable than normal oral doses.

4

Qualified statement. Bravo. I agree. I also believe that uridine may have other mechanisms of action. Making the argument otherwise is currently borderline impossible. I also agree that vitamin E may be a co-factor for uridine.

[...]
You'll also see better results with 1:4 EPA to DHA ratio, apparently, with EPA requirements being roughly 2 times the amount of uridine taken, making DHA requirements 8 x uridine by weight. Don't forget vitamin E, either. Enhances the effect according to some of the patents.

I have not seen much evidence specifically regarding vitamin E's affect on uridine, DHA, and choline supplementation.

Here's a patent. http://www.faqs.org/...app/20100331258

[0028]

Preferably the present composition comprises one or more of phospholipids, choline, vitamin E, vitamin C, selenium, vitamin B12, vitamin B6 and folic acid, more preferably phospholipids, choline, vitamin E, vitamin C, selenium, vitamin B12, vitamin B6 and folic acid.

The patents I viewed seemed to regard vitamin E as something to be included ... or not.

[...]
Again, it's interesting that none of the human studies mentioned supplementing folate or B12 as part of the trial.

Personally, I believe I am well covered by my existing Vitamin B complex supplement, but I'll definitely increase my B-complex supplementation proportionally, if I go up to 500-1000mg of uridine per day - or perhaps switch to a natural source, if I can find a suitable one.. ie. not yeast... or at least not ALIVE yeast.

I am not disputing the potential of MrHappy's myriad suggestions (he certainly is a prolific writer and I thank him for sharing). I am disputing the morphing of conjecture to fact.

On the most basic level, it seems that the only thing required for uridine supplementation is uridine. Adding DHA, which some studies show has a similar effect to uridine in the studie's scope, and choline to uridine seem to potentiate its effect. Adding the other co-factors is probably not a bad idea. In my opinion, these are things that most people should be taking anyways.

If this stack is producing undesirable side effects, try approaching it more scientifically. Do a short wash out period (~5-7 days) or wait until the undesirable side effects resolve. Start with one supplement and add one more every 7-30 days (e.g start with uridine then on day 10 add DHA, etc.). If a supplement produces a negative effects within the few days after it was added, stop taking it. The negative effect should resolve over the next few days. If after a 10-14 days the negative effect has not resolved, stop taking the supplement you most recently added. Repeat until the negative effect disappears. Begin add supplements again. This should allow you to find what is negatively affecting you, but it sure is time consuming.

I just started my uridine experiment yesterday. I want to limit my bias and suggestibility so I am keeping a log and will present it to you in a week or so.

Thanks for listening. Feel free to strike me down if I am wrong. I will thank you for it.

[absent minded]

I think i felt something on the first dose of sublingual UMP, and at only 100 mg with just 1 fish oil capsule @ 360 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA, and 100 mg of alpha GPC. Then the next couple of days doing the same thing the clear headed feeling is no more. Maybe it will come back in 2 weeks... Or I guess I'll just double the dosages.

I am glad I have some liquid B-12 complex, it taste sweet... it goes good in masking the UMP salty taste.

[rg8032]

No offense is intended by the following. A sense of concern of concern has convinced me to offer intervention. The discussion seems to have given itself over to sophistry; however, by exercising self restraint we can save it.

Before I start I want to thank MrHappy for his cute screaming kitten avatar and for bringing uridine to my attention. Now that I have endeared myself to you, let me reverse that. Oh and sorry, X_Danny_X. Nothing personal.

Many men of science reading this thread from the first page to the last page might notice the telephone game that is being played. I find the morphing of opinion based on anecdotal evidence and tenuous theories very dangerous. Most of the people who come through this thread will not take the time to gain a basic understanding of what is being discussed and I believe many lack a basic knowledge of the scientific process.

Doubt is the most powerful concept in science and it is being eschewed for hope in this post. Thankfully, this combination of drugs/supplements (take your pick of terminology) seems relatively harmless, but what do I know. These kinds of fast-and-loose attitudes and specious 'theories' can lead to leading others to, at worst, do serious harm to themselves or just waste money and time. Be more careful please. Do not let your opinions masquerade as facts; qualify your statements properly.

An interesting take, but I'm not sure if you have or haven't read all the linked research [...] There is a decent amount of supporting literature.[...]

There is a some supporting literature. It even looks promising. After thoroughly reviewing the information, I decided to self-experiment. That being said, drawing set-in-stone conclusions from the evidence thus far presented is fallacious. Please show more restraint.

I read that but other vitamins were mentioned such as Vitamin C and B12. I wanted to know if melatonin can be used instead of Vitamin E. It is a powerful anti oxidant and life extension supplement. It goes after free radicals that attacks proporties that help weaken immune system.[...]

So without Vitamin E, Uridine, GPC, and DHA combo will be much weaker?[...]

These are the kinds of people that are taking some of this hearsay and running with it. No offense intended. Others in this thread also seem to not grasp some of the more basic workings of the human body.

Rogerthat - I'd think you'd be able to take roughly 60% less adderall and possibly still get the same effects.

Thankfully, this statement was qualified as an opinion. It seems unlikely that you would be able to predict this effect.

[...] What about Vitamin E?? Does it help with Uridine? Also does ALCAR contain vitamin E?

Uridine modulates dopamine, in both directions.

Vitamin E is important to the stack. [...]

1

OK, it has been a number of pages, so it probably is time for a recap/update anyway.

According to the various literature, you want both EPA and DHA, a cholinergic, a tocopherol, methylation cofactors, uridine, minerals.

So, morning dose:
200-300mg UMP, sublingually OR 75-100 TAU, orally
500mg a-gpc - substitute with alcar or cdp-choline, as preferred
400-600mg EPA
1500-2000mg DHA
1000IU+ vitamin E

400mcg folate
1mg b12 (yes, that is intentionally high, feel free not to megadose if you have objections)
RDA of zinc, calcium, magnesium, b1,2,3,6... A good multi should cover most of these.

If you are treating depression or anything dopamine related, feel free to delay adding the cholinergic for a week or 2, but you may not notice any issues at that dose of uridine, anyway.

2

I read no literature that made the claim that vitamin E in addition to uridine, DHA, and choline was desirable. There is some literature that pairs vitamin with uridine, DHA, and choline; however, no outright recommendations are made. The possibility that I missed this suggestion exists. Most of the recent literature has not been using vitamin E, but to draw a conclusion from that is fallacy.

Sounds like you are on the right track. The B vitamins are essential, make sure you are taking at least RDA. A good multi should also include calcium amd magnesium. Vitamin E is a good idea, also.
[...]

3

Here vitamin E is a good idea, but B vitamins are essential. Could just be poorly worded.

I think uridine has separate functions that occur prior to being converted into CDP.

Also, to clarify for people coming to this thread later -

[...]

Co-factors for uridine:
B group vitamins - 6, 9 (folate/folic acid), 12
-these are required to support the DNA methylation

DHA+EPA, Vitamin E
-required to increase BDNF, replenishing neural lipid membranes

Choline (alpha-gpc or cdp)
-required to increase acetylcholine levels

Dosages:
TAU is approximately 7 times more bioavailable than UMP. 25mg of TAU = 175mg of UMP approximately.
Sublingual doses (dissolved under the tongue and absorbed, not swallowed) are possibly 10x more bioavailable than normal oral doses.

4

Qualified statement. Bravo. I agree. I also believe that uridine may have other mechanisms of action. Making the argument otherwise is currently borderline impossible. I also agree that vitamin E may be a co-factor for uridine.

[...]
You'll also see better results with 1:4 EPA to DHA ratio, apparently, with EPA requirements being roughly 2 times the amount of uridine taken, making DHA requirements 8 x uridine by weight. Don't forget vitamin E, either. Enhances the effect according to some of the patents.

I have not seen much evidence specifically regarding vitamin E's affect on uridine, DHA, and choline supplementation.

Here's a patent. http://www.faqs.org/...app/20100331258

[0028]

Preferably the present composition comprises one or more of phospholipids, choline, vitamin E, vitamin C, selenium, vitamin B12, vitamin B6 and folic acid, more preferably phospholipids, choline, vitamin E, vitamin C, selenium, vitamin B12, vitamin B6 and folic acid.

The patents I viewed seemed to regard vitamin E as something to be included ... or not.

[...]
Again, it's interesting that none of the human studies mentioned supplementing folate or B12 as part of the trial.

Personally, I believe I am well covered by my existing Vitamin B complex supplement, but I'll definitely increase my B-complex supplementation proportionally, if I go up to 500-1000mg of uridine per day - or perhaps switch to a natural source, if I can find a suitable one.. ie. not yeast... or at least not ALIVE yeast.

I am not disputing the potential of MrHappy's myriad suggestions (he certainly is a prolific writer and I thank him for sharing). I am disputing the morphing of conjecture to fact.

On the most basic level, it seems that the only thing required for uridine supplementation is uridine. Adding DHA, which some studies show has a similar effect to uridine in the studie's scope, and choline to uridine seem to potentiate its effect. Adding the other co-factors is probably not a bad idea. In my opinion, these are things that most people should be taking anyways.

If this stack is producing undesirable side effects, try approaching it more scientifically. Do a short wash out period (~5-7 days) or wait until the undesirable side effects resolve. Start with one supplement and add one more every 7-30 days (e.g start with uridine then on day 10 add DHA, etc.). If a supplement produces a negative effects within the few days after it was added, stop taking it. The negative effect should resolve over the next few days. If after a 10-14 days the negative effect has not resolved, stop taking the supplement you most recently added. Repeat until the negative effect disappears. Begin add supplements again. This should allow you to find what is negatively affecting you, but it sure is time consuming.

I just started my uridine experiment yesterday. I want to limit my bias and suggestibility so I am keeping a log and will present it to you in a week or so.

Thanks for listening. Feel free to strike me down if I am wrong. I will thank you for it.

[JChief]

My order of uridine (TAU) just arrived today. Will try it first thing tomorrow morning, 50mg as a start dose. Can someone tell me how long it'll take to actually feel the effect?

I noticed a less moody disposition after only a couple days of taking TAU. Make sure you are taking it (and your omega 3s) with meals. Eventually I found 75-100mg produce a stronger effect. I currently take 75-100mg. I usually bump it up a bit if I do not get a full 8 hours of sleep. But I would say 2 weeks should suffice. If you are really commited to making this work you should limit your intake of mood altering substances. Caffeine, nicotine, and a variety of other factors can interfere with your results. UMP powder was a failed experiment since I did not like the filler in the caps (tasted like flour) and it would be annoying having my mouth fill with saliva and getting frustrated keeping it all under my tongue and do not experience the same effects as TAU. I have not tried pure UMP sublingual though. I'm not saying UMP doesn't work. TAU is just easier for me to take. And it works for me.

Edited by JChief, 04 February 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

Nice study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11021741
Where can I get PSAU? :D

Edited by redan, 04 February 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[JChief]

Nice study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11021741
Where can I get PSAU? :D

Good question. And good find!

[MrHappy]

Great find! Very good to combine with some chemotherapy treatments - increases selectivity and aids recovery.

From my understanding, PSAU would also prevent the diarrhea issues with males taking more than 5000mg. I wonder if that bipolar clinical trial using those 18000mg doses are aware of this paper?

Downsides that I would expect would be inhibiting production of UDP-glucuronosyltransferase, etc. and the knock-on effects like limiting bile production.

Thankfully, the effective doses we are needing are much smaller..

[rg8032]

[...]
http://molpharm.aspe.../4/925.full.pdf

Does this study show that nicotine and caffeine only appreciably block transfection of uridine at supertherapeutic doses?

The serum level of caffeine achieved after an average (150-ml) cup of coffee is normally at least 4.9 [micro
M] (Nehlig and Debry, 1994). The resulting nicotine concentration in blood after smoking one cigarette is in the range of 0.23 to 0.32
[micro
M] (Lawson et al., 1998). The physiological significance of average levels of caffeine and nicotine on hCNTs is uncertain, although it is tempting to speculate, from our study, that an increased consumption above normal levels may potentially affect the ability of the hCNTs to transport other permeants and potentially affect their physiological functions.

So normal blood concentrations of caffeine and nicotine are 4.9 microM and 0.23 to 0.32 microM respectively after a typical single dose (150 ml and one cigarette respectively).

The study found that to inhibit 50% of the uptake of uridine the levels of caffeine or nicotine must be 58 and 81 microM respectively for the pyrimidine-nucleoside-selective cell line (TLCT1) and 125 and 276 microM respectively for the purine-nucleoside-selective cell line (ARAC/D2). In other words, to inhibit half the intake of uridine you would have to consume somewhere around 1.78 L of coffee (11.84 150ml servings) or 253 to 352 cigarettes. Good luck with that (Disclaimer: You will, in all likelihood, die if you try this .. do not do it).

It should be noted that this experiment took place in a petri dish on designer cells. Extrapolating possible meanings based only on the facts, we might come to the conclusion that sane amounts of coffee and nicotine should not interfere with the absorption of uridine. Keep in mind the study is old and the behavior of transfection in vivo could be different. The authors speculate that "an increased consumption above normal levels" could affect the ability of cells to uptake uridine. This means that it is possible that high intake could cause an effect greater than the negligible effect of an average dose.

This is not to say that the physiologically and psychological effects of caffeine and nicotine are not altered; this may or may not be the case (no comment). The inhibition of the uptake of uridine induced by sane doses of caffeine and nicotine seems to be at fully workable levels.

Hope this helps.

[csrpj]

can anyone advise me on which vitamin E to buy?

i'm thinking jarrows famliE or jarrows gamma 300? (AOR too expensive for my current budget)