2844 replies to this topic

[nupi]

Do you think uridine is effective for anhedonia and other reward related issues?

It wasnt for me but maybe I did not give it a long enough shot (3 weeks) - will do so again, I think.

Edit: my current stack
Morning (together with a lactose free skim milk Cocoa Xylitol 20g Whey concoction plus a heaped tea spoon of EVCO)
* 1 AOR MultiBasics 3 capsule
* 1 NOW GammaE 200 IU softgel
* 2000IU Vitamin D3 softgel
* 3*800mg Jarrow Creapure Creatine capsules
* 300mg NOW Silymarin
* 325mg NOW EGCG
* 3mg Dr Best Astaxanthin Softgel
* LEF SuperK (1000mcg MK4, 120mcg MK7) Softgel
* 1000mg EPA/500mg DHA (NOW Ultra Omega), enteric softgels

Evening
* 1 AOR MultiBasics 3 capsule
* 125mg Lithium Orotate
* 200-400mg Mg (from Mg citrate)
* 2* Thorne Research Bacopa Capsules
* 1 Tea spoon of EVCO
* 3*800mg Jarrow Creapure Creatine capsules
* 1000mg EPA/500mg DHA (NOW Ultra Omega), enteric softgels
Sometimes
* 300mg NOW Silymarin
* another lactose free Skim Milk Cocoa Xylitol Whey concoction
* LEF 300mcg time released Melatonin (jury on whether this helps or hurts my sleeping pattern is still out, regular 3mg Melatonin definitely did hurt more than help except when seriously jet lagged)

Diet: Eating most things but relatively low carb (with some exception for brown and especially dark chocolate), lots of water and a little too short on veggies (except for lunch), when possible substituting pasta/rice for legumes but eating European style dark bread (IOW, bread without sugar). Trying to move toward EVOO, EVCO and Macadamia for fats but its a struggle considering I eat out at least 5 times per week (I can usually steer the salad, but who knows what they use for pan frying, generally probably high oleic sun flower which is semi decent compared to the toxic stuff in the US)

Exercise: loosely based around Body by Science Big 5 program (i.e., once per week compound movement HIT weights, little to no cardio)

So reintroducing UMP would probably mean to add 1g of ALCAR and 300mg UMP in the morning.

Edited by nupi, 30 April 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[nupi]

Anyone taking Wellbutrin with the UMP Uridine? I'm contemplating a switch over from Pristiq, which my insurance refuses to cover now, and don't want to move to the "dirtier" Effexor after reading so many cessation horror stories. Hoping to bridge the Pristiq withdrawls with Wellbutrin, increase UMP Uridine and fish oil dose, and go drug free.

I initially had them stacked. UMP never did much of anything for me and the Bupropion I dropped because of gastro intestinal issues (it also felt like it had lost its oomph). Effexor I would stay away from but personally I had no cessation issues, it's just otherwise a not very pleasant experience (sure, it beat the hell out of being suicidally depressed but then again, many things do)

[Thorsten3]

Should be able to adjust your stack accordingly.

What are your dosages of everything?

I decided to eliminate the fish oil and my libido has returned. It seems I was right. It is kind of strange as I have seen some places state that it is the EPA content that can boost sex drive. It seems to be the opposite in my case. I respond better to DHA type extracts but I have noticed they also can provoke hypomania to a certain degree.

Until my usual brand of fish oil finally arrives (I ran out) I am going to hold off from the fish oil. In fact, Uridine is working just as well without it.

[Thorsten3]

I'm just taking it with fish oil, methylcobabalim, L methyl folate, d3, k2 and indium sulphate. Feeling pretty good on all of this.

Indium Sulphate ay? That's wacky stuff. I took it for a little while. Made me read super fast but then I'd get this kind of creepy derealization feeling from it. There are a few old threads about it on this board. It seems to do something different to everyone who takes it. Too weird and unpredictable for me to want to take it again. Glad to hear the Uridine is working out for you.

I've taken it for three years with nothing but improvements to my life.

I am going to replace it though with marine phytoplankton.

[nupi]

What is the general view on stacking Uridine plus co-factors with Bacopa and/or Rhodiola, BTW?

[owtsgmi]

Should be able to adjust your stack accordingly.

What are your dosages of everything?

I decided to eliminate the fish oil and my libido has returned. It seems I was right. It is kind of strange as I have seen some places state that it is the EPA content that can boost sex drive. It seems to be the opposite in my case. I respond better to DHA type extracts but I have noticed they also can provoke hypomania to a certain degree.

Until my usual brand of fish oil finally arrives (I ran out) I am going to hold off from the fish oil. In fact, Uridine is working just as well without it.

You might try supplementing with 400mg of Tongkat Ali - good libido/testosterone enhancer. You can take one everyday or just when you need a booster

[FrankMH]

I'm about to try the stack with L-Tyrosine. Has anyone else done so yet? Also, would L-Theanine work similarly?

[Synaptik]

Is

Triacetyluridine any good? I really want to try this substance, but can't find sublingual UMP anywhere online. I'm currently experience excellent success with inositol, and am looking to cycle with uridine after a few weeks for dopamine regulation. But I can't find anywhere to buy it! Any ideas guys?

Edited by Synaptik, 03 May 2012 - 02:47 AM.

[rg8032]

Is TriacetylUridine [TAU] any good? [...] can't find sublingual UMP [...]

TAU is fat soluble. I can not speak for it. There are a number of people who have experimented with it in this thread.

I am unaware of any UMP being marketed specifically for sublingual administration. Just buy capsules or powder and dose it sublingually if you desire. Problem solved. Those that use UMP sublingually do it that way, as far as I know.

Edited by rg8032, 03 May 2012 - 04:31 AM.

[Junk Master]

I liked the TAU. Just eat a little fat when you take it. Good stuff. The only reason I'm not taking it instead of the UMP is UMP is so cheap sublingually.

[MrHappy]

.. and very cheap in bulk.

[Thorsten3]

I have cut my uridine right back now to 100mg a day. This shit is strong. It was the cause of my diminishing sex drive and has also been responsible for gastro issues and has weirdly promoted broken sleep too. The sort of broken sleep where you end up oversleeping each day when your alarm goes off because you are stil tired. I think it's still quite a powerful supplement even at these minescule dosages.

The fact that I had zero sex drive and I was dragging my ass out of bed each morning does make me suspect that maybe this stuff is playing around with my hormones in some sort of way. Not being able to get up in the morning screams of low cortisol but losing interest in sex would suggest low T. But then, you could also argue that it's the 5HT. It certainly does feel very serotonergic. It destroys my sex drive in the same way that BCM-95 curcumin does. Not a good thing.

100mg per morning is the last stop for me. I figure if I am not dosing it in the afternoon it will hopefully be out of my system the following morning hence I can return to getting out of bed at a reasonable time. Hopefully it won't affect my libido at this dose either too much. I have already recently started taking cordyceps each morning and things have already started improving since I added that. I am also going to return to my old protocol of taking one heaped tablespoon of maca each day.


It's strange, because at first I was taking up to 600mg BID without any issues. Maybe the more you take this, the less you need (as it builds up in your system).

[Junk Master]

Interesting post, Thorsten2. I'm still trying to get a "feel" for optimum dose range. I'm at 500mg at the moment. I don't really feel the same lack of sex drive as you did, though to be fair, I just started Wellbutrin while coming off Pristiq and my sex drive has increased.

I don't feel the serotonergic effects either, though we'll see when the SSNI is completely out of my system.

[MrHappy]

Well, they are some pretty big doses.
My normal dose is 150-200mg UMP, orally.

[Jr Cauton]

I've tried TAU with L-Tyrosine and noticed no positive effects. I guess I'm a TAU non-responder? I'm not giving up yet, I'm giving UMP a try so I placed an order for a couple of bottles. Is there anyone out there who didn't feel any benefit from TAU but did with UMP?

Edited by Jr Cauton, 07 May 2012 - 12:01 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Where is the cheapest bulk UMP or TAU? I have yet to find a cheap source..

[tintinet]

I've tried TAU with L-Tyrosine and noticed no positive effects. I guess I'm a TAU non-responder? I'm not giving up yet, I'm giving UMP a try so I placed an order for a couple of bottles. Is there anyone out there who didn't feel any benefit from TAU but did with UMP?

I think sublingual UMP (300 mg BID) works better for me than TAU (100 mg BID), certainly.

[Ames]

Anyone else notice a markedly reduced sex drive with uridine?

This response, specifically, I would consider to be a red flag as to it's appropriatness as a long term enhancement (from the perspective of 35 year old man without a severe nerodegenerative disorder). Absent such a disease, I take the perspective that the meta-goal should be improved whole system vitality, of which this side effect is the antithesis.

I wonder if staggered supplementation would eliminate this side effect, as a more randmized effect on dopamine receptors might allow the system to better adapt and maintain sex drive. Just a thought.

As an aside, I'm having quite a sex drive increase with Life Extension's "Super Zeaxanthin" Occular Support formula. (I have a long time ocular migraine disorder with a host of systemic co-morbidities, many of which are vascular). I suspect that the 6mg Astaxanthin per dose is the cause, and will be experimenting with higher dose Astaxanthin soon. Point being, I don't wish to wreck my new sex drive with uridine, although it sounds very interesting and promising

Edited by golgi1, 09 May 2012 - 01:52 AM.

[tintinet]

No, I haven't noticed any decrease in sex drive, but I've been taking astaxanthin for quite a while also. Does astaxanthin really enhance sex drive?

[abelard lindsay]

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

[owtsgmi]

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

Yeah... I tapered from 600mg per day 5-htp to zero within weeks of starting UMP.

[Jr Cauton]

Is it better to take UMP with food or on empty stomach? I just received my UMP today. I hope I get the positive effects that I didn't get from TAU.

Abelard: is your uridine TAU or UMP?

[Synaptik]

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

Yeah... I tapered from 600mg per day 5-htp to zero within weeks of starting UMP.

I thought uridine was a dopamine modulator? This is great news for me as I (believe I) have classic low serotonin symptoms (mild depression/dysthymic, low moods, self-conscious anxiety). Anything serotonin related I appear to respond very well to. The inositol I'm taking is working really well, and it's not surprising considering it's a serotonin modulator. Just starting 100MG on 5-HTP and I feel ridiculously good with zero side effects. Today I didn't take the 5-HTP but rather 250MG tyrosine (for dopamine/serotonin rebalance) and 3G Inostiol, and it's like the great serotonin feeling didn't slow down one bit (credit the inositol here).

Anyway, it's great to know I can cycle the inositol/5-HTP/Sam-e with Uridine. Hope I didn't jinx myself.

[owtsgmi]

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

Yeah... I tapered from 600mg per day 5-htp to zero within weeks of starting UMP.

I thought uridine was a dopamine modulator? This is great news for me as I (believe I) have classic low serotonin symptoms (mild depression/dysthymic, low moods, self-conscious anxiety). Anything serotonin related I appear to respond very well to. The inositol I'm taking is working really well, and it's not surprising considering it's a serotonin modulator. Just starting 100MG on 5-HTP and I feel ridiculously good with zero side effects. Today I didn't take the 5-HTP but rather 250MG tyrosine (for dopamine/serotonin rebalance) and 3G Inostiol, and it's like the great serotonin feeling didn't slow down one bit (credit the inositol here).

Anyway, it's great to know I can cycle the inositol/5-HTP/Sam-e with Uridine. Hope I didn't jinx myself.

My guess is that you may find that the uridine will work long term without the 5 htp or tyrosine. I mean, your tyrosine dose is relatively low so no big deal, but for me it worked out that way. My symptoms were similar to yours.

[Synaptik]

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

I took some Uridine from Cardiovascular Research today. Got big time Serotonin effects. Not so bad as to get worried about but approaching the point at which a good mood turns into serotonin syndrome. Be careful people. I certainly wouldn't take this in conjunction with SSRIs.

Yeah... I tapered from 600mg per day 5-htp to zero within weeks of starting UMP.

I thought uridine was a dopamine modulator? This is great news for me as I (believe I) have classic low serotonin symptoms (mild depression/dysthymic, low moods, self-conscious anxiety). Anything serotonin related I appear to respond very well to. The inositol I'm taking is working really well, and it's not surprising considering it's a serotonin modulator. Just starting 100MG on 5-HTP and I feel ridiculously good with zero side effects. Today I didn't take the 5-HTP but rather 250MG tyrosine (for dopamine/serotonin rebalance) and 3G Inostiol, and it's like the great serotonin feeling didn't slow down one bit (credit the inositol here).

Anyway, it's great to know I can cycle the inositol/5-HTP/Sam-e with Uridine. Hope I didn't jinx myself.

My guess is that you may find that the uridine will work long term without the 5 htp or tyrosine. I mean, your tyrosine dose is relatively low so no big deal, but for me it worked out that way. My symptoms were similar to yours.

Oh that's good to hear. Since what I'm doing now is working well, not sure I want to give it up. But it'll be nice to have the Uridine option too if it works. I'll probably always want to maintain a 2-stack cycle to keep both options 'fresh' - have to see. Like you, trying to take the minimum dosage/least substances I can to achieve the end goal. But at this point, I'm pretty convinced I'm a classic low serotonin case. Glad to know what you're deficient so you can attack the problem with focus. I highly recommend Inositol if you're experiencing low serotonin symptoms like myself.

[Junk Master]

What does borderline serotonin syndrome feel like? I've taken Pristiq with 1000 mg Uridine, plus 3 mg methylene blue, and didn't have any problems. The only thing I noticed is taking a dose of Uridine in the morning seems to flatten my mood and make me want less coffee. Taken at night, I tend to wake up in a good mood.

Which makes me suspect there's something else going on here. Along the lines of low dose naltrexone?

[Ames]

Has everyone read Ray Peat's take on serotonin? After reading his articles http://raypeat.com/articles/, I'm dubious as to the serotonin theory of depression as it is commonly understood. If his models are to be believed, then supplementing with 5-HTP toward the goal of increasing serotonin is likely not safe nor smart with an eye on health and life extension. Anyway, at least read through his articles before you decide to take that next 5-HTP pill.

Does astaxanthin really enhance sex drive?

It does for me, although I'm not sure through what action. I have a feeling that it's the overall anti-oxidant effect that is likely improving my hormone profile, and therefore both sexual function (?sperm motility/erection frequency/orgasm intensity) and, as a result, drive/urgency. Perhaps it's a pure increase in sperm motility alone, rather than a hormonal change, that is causing my perceived increase in urgency. It's hard to know, but there has been a strong increase for me, although it feels very natural. I'm not sure how else to explain it, other than my dreams have been crazy, as well as nocturnal erections. If one doesn't have a similar level of impaired health, then their reaction may not be as pronounced. Since it isn't a stimulant for any hormone of which I am aware, it is very possible that a person's baseline health status plays a large part in how you perceive its effects. Not to throw the thread off topic, but astaxanthin is probably the best supplement that I've taken thusfar as far as getting me back to a better baseline of health and creating resistance to symptoms. For instance, I can go to bed at 4 AM and get up at 11 AM feeling well rested. Before I would need to sleep until 2PM and still wouldn't feel right. No matter how much "bad behavior" I indulge in that would traditionally trigger a migraine or ocular migraine the next morning (staying up late, extensive computer use, drinking, late eating, etc.), I wake up feeling great. I hope the effects don't wane, but I've been excited before only to have the protective effects of a substance decrease. However, Astxanthan feels stronger than previous approaches. Here's hoping. I'm taking around 10mg per day.

It's worth noting, based on my personal responses to anything that I have historically integrated into a stack (although i rarely take more than 1-2 supps at a time), across the board, that I take everything that I'm going to take for the day immediately upon waking, on an empty stomach, unless fat soluble.

Fat soluble supps I take with breakfast, or perhaps up to 20 minutes before. I have always, always had a worse response to anything the later in the day that I take it, and taking anything before bed I have observed to produce the most ineffective or even maladaptive responses (often marked in part by reduced sleep quality), especially over time. So, if anyone is interested in exploring the above described effects of astaxanthin, I can only recommend that you take it upon waking, before or during breakfast, as per my regimen This may be part of the formula in noticing these possible effects of astaxanthin. However, it's only a correlation, albeit a well tested one (for supplements or prophylactics), in my experience.

I just received my UMP today. I'm looking forward to trying it.

Edited by golgi1, 12 May 2012 - 11:02 PM.

[Synaptik]

Has everyone read Ray Peat's take on serotonin? After reading his articles http://raypeat.com/articles/, I'm dubious as to the serotonin theory of depression as it is commonly understood. If his models are to be believed, then supplementing with 5-HTP toward the goal of increasing serotonin is likely not safe nor smart with an eye on health and life extension. Anyway, at least read through his articles before you decide to take that next 5-HTP pill.

Thanks for posting that article. I read quite a bit of it, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I'm a serotonin responder all the way. All I know is when I take the serotogenics, it's the only thing that consistently makes my feel great - like myself. Maybe just having the right levels are beneficial; maybe the reuptake inhibitors are in a different class than general serotogenics. I don't have the answer. But I have to trust my experience and I always strive to take the LEAST amount of any supplement possible to achieve the end goal - with frequent breaks of course.

[medievil]

not that raypeat bullshit again

But the serotonine theory of depression is bullshit too; atleast in some cases; dysfunctioning in all monoamine systems can cause issues; and for example mitochondrial issues can be at the root cause too etc..

[nupi]

10mg Astaxanthin sounds like worth giving a shot (I was dabbling with 3 to 6mg so far with no obvious effect)