2844 replies to this topic

[hephaestus]

I've been taking the full combo for the past few days and must say that it has been helping me focus during my 3 hour session of calculus every morning (summer school). I can literally stay focused throughout the entire lecture, however I am completely drained when I arrive home. I routinely partake in the same pleasures after every day of school to relieve stress (gaming, etc.); but what I've come to notice is that I have severe anhedonia towards these activities. I just finished my summer course, so I'll be able to judge whether or not I stay happy throughout a schedule-free day. Regardless, is there any rememdy to this afternoon dead period? Am I depleted of catecholamines or something else?

Could be catecholamine depletion, you could try CILTEP for increasing the rate of catecholamine synthesis. Also try eating foods high in tyrosine:

Tyrosine, which can also be synthesized in the body from phenylalanine, is found in many high-protein food products such as chicken, turkey, fish, peanuts, almonds, avocados, milk, cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, bananas, and soy products. Tyrosine can also be obtained through supplementation.

Rhodiola rosea is a decent weak herbal MAOI that might help as well.

[sparkk51]

I've been taking the full combo for the past few days and must say that it has been helping me focus during my 3 hour session of calculus every morning (summer school). I can literally stay focused throughout the entire lecture, however I am completely drained when I arrive home. I routinely partake in the same pleasures after every day of school to relieve stress (gaming, etc.); but what I've come to notice is that I have severe anhedonia towards these activities. I just finished my summer course, so I'll be able to judge whether or not I stay happy throughout a schedule-free day. Regardless, is there any rememdy to this afternoon dead period? Am I depleted of catecholamines or something else?

Could be catecholamine depletion, you could try CILTEP for increasing the rate of catecholamine synthesis. Also try eating foods high in tyrosine:

Tyrosine, which can also be synthesized in the body from phenylalanine, is found in many high-protein food products such as chicken, turkey, fish, peanuts, almonds, avocados, milk, cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, bananas, and soy products. Tyrosine can also be obtained through supplementation.

Rhodiola rosea is a decent weak herbal MAOI that might help as well.

Thank you for the response. I do not think I have a nutritional deficiency of tyrosine as I eat a healthy amount of protein everyday. Would you mind telling me what the CILTEP stack consists of and at what doses? I've read through the thread before, but the stack seems to vary.

[hephaestus]

Most common seems to be 5-10mg forskolin to elevate cAMP and 500mg quercetin as a phosphodiesterase inhibitor to slow the breakdown of cAMP to AMP. It promotes long term potentiation which is a major celluar mechanism underlying learning and memory as well as tyrosine hydroxylase transcription, which is the rate limiting enzyme in synthesizing dopamine from tyrosine. You will use tyrosine up more quickly on the CILTEP stack and people have reported that it makes them tired if they don't supplement tyrosine or phenylalanine, but everyone's brain is different obviously. This helps build up neurotransmitter stores in your synaptic vessicles and then when you take a stimulant like caffeine, amphetamine, or methylphenidate, which all promote the release of various neurotransmitters, they are more effective. Expect cardiovascular effects like increased blood pressure and heart rate, forskolin is sold as a bodybuilding and weight loss supplement, it seems to increase my metabolism in general.

Edited by hephaestus, 19 August 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[Major Legend]

Seems like most of the responders here are older people 30+, anyone 20 to 30 getting good effects? Makes a lot of sense that the aforementioned would work better for older people.

Want to go with SN but they annoyed me with the brain octane $100 prami (include shipping) and not even giving me a partial refund and ignoring my email. Plus "that" website. Pretty impressed these guys somehow manage to stock everything thought (not sure if thats a danger sign).

So this stuff looks like sugar?

Anyone have any good result with Ecological Formulas? I prefer to go the powder route though, always worked better for me.

[hephaestus]

I'm 30 and definitely notice good effects from this stack. 250mg sublingual uridine will get me going again when I've been awake all night.

[sparkk51]

hephaestus, do you think I could buy store brand forskolin and quercetin just as a trial? I've been ordering many substances lately and wouldnt mind getting a trial run done first for this stack.

[Major Legend]

Just want to elaborate SN gave me a refund (seems so anyways from an email, not checked my CC yet) so i'm a happy bunny.

[hephaestus]

I don't see why not, the stuff I use is mostly from amazon.

[Brainfart]

So, after reading some info here on what might have caused me to be tired during the day I altered a few things.

Morning:

300 mg UMP
Cognitex with Pregnone
Lovaza
LEF's 2 per day tablet vitamins
500 mg L-Tyrosine

Night time:

Magnesium Theronate

In the morning, I'm alert and frankly aggressive, but as I roll toward the afternoon I wayne and grow tired. I realize the Mg could be the culprit but I'm a little skeptical.

Prior to this it was:

Cognitex
300mg UMP AM

300mg UMP afternoon

Mg Threonate before bed.

I'm at a loss as to what could make me tired and not specifically happy and euphoric as I was previously.

[IA87]

My guess would be the ashwagandha in the cognitex. Ashwagandha is an adaptogen, and I have found adaptogens (I've tried three-including ashwagandha) to be sedating. I tend to take them at night because of this problem. I'd suggest taking out the cognitex.

[Ames]

I wanted to check in and let everyone know what has been working for me. Although I have had good results with things before only to drop them later when they have stopped working or when I found something more effective, I have to say that the UMP has been consistenetly remarkable in both it's effect and it's maintenance of the effect.

I have found that the "effect" definately increases over time as you take it. Everyone should committ to getting through an entire bottle of UMP-300, for instance, before they decide. 1-2 weeks isn't enough to notice much, although you will notice something. It's just that the payoff will be a little further down the road. That's with a once per day sublingual dose upon waking. I'm not sure of how multiple daily doses would change the progression. I'm at the end of my first 60 pill bottle.

I take:
300 mg sublingual uridine-5'-monophoshpate in the morning. (I recommend opening the pill and spilling it out under your tongue rather than sticking the pill itself in your mouth).

100-200 mcg (estimated) folic acid every OTHER day. I take it as soon as the UMP dissolves. I have found lower doses to work better, and so I dump out most of a 1000mcg powder pill and take a minimum dose. I have tried higher doses, and the complimentary effect of the lower dose, with UMP, seems stronger to me. I don't know how to explain that. There is definately a complimentary effect, and the effect is best when the folic acid is NOT taken every day and when taken it is in a minimal dose. I take the folic acid because of concerns voiced earlier in this thread about taking UMP with depleted folic acid. If you drink, have sex, or even have a stressful lifestyle then I think that you may run the risk of sub-optimal folic acid and you may want to test the effects of supplementation as I have described.

This is all I take at the moment and I very much like the effect. I can aggravate my symptoms with behavior that would have before had me reeling for at least 48 hours, and with this I wake up fresh as a daisy. I'm not sure yet as to how much skipping an occassional day of UMP helps or hurts, but I skip an occassional day because I forget to take it and I don't notice any fall off in effect. As a matter of fact, I think that it may aid in my response to it when I resume the next day, but the jury is still out on that. I'll have to observe this supplementation-taking pattern a bit more before I would be able to say for sure either way. I didn't take it yesterday, aggravated my symptoms last night, and woke up feeling great today (although i slept more than normal). I took it this morning with folic acid.

I'm going to review this thread to see what I missed, but so far so good with what I have been doing.

I may try to combine it with choline as an experiment. I'm leery of DHA, although I will try it if it can be whole-heartedly recommended by people here with UMP experience. I've noticed an increase in sexual response with UMP and folic acid (essential for that) and I would be curious to see if DHA would dampen that or perhaps cause unesiraebale effects in mood. I'll be cognizant of my mood with choline as well.

Has anyone comapred their response with UMP to that when taking citicoline? I'd be interested to read about the subjective differences.

Edited by golgi1, 22 August 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Ames]

Just an update on my experiences.

I have halved the amount of UMP I take from 300 to 150 and my prior libido issues are gone yet the feel good affects are still there.

TAU or what ever did nothing for my girlfriend and I.

A suggestion:

Try raising the Uridine dose back to 300 and add in 100-200 mcg of Folic acid every other day or so. See if your libido probelms persists with that combination.

[Ames]

Hey Mr. I remember reading you said uridine is cheap, can you point me to a source please. Not over seas.

I'm not MrHappy but here you go anyway. Bulk powder for Sublingual.

http://www.superiorn...tegory_Code=COG

edit: the 25 gram jar would be 100 doses at the standard 250mg sublingual dose at 40 cents per.

Other than cost differences, which I won't address, is there any other specific reason why the Superior Nutraceuticals brand of UMP is used by so many members here in lieu of the Cardiovascular Research pills?

I'm comfortable with the CR UMP cost, but I wanted to know if there is anything extraordinarily compelling about the Superior Nutraceuticals brand vs the CR brand.

[Hebbeh]

I've used both....in fact have several bottles of CR pills left....but the SN bulk powder just seemed to dissolve and absorb sublingual better with a perceived stronger effect....i definitely feel a stronger effect from the SN powder....the powder from the CR pills just doesn't seem to absorb sublingually as well...could be binders.

[hephaestus]

The pure UMP powder will totally dissolve and disappear within 5-10 minutes as long as it is moist.

[hephaestus]

Anyone had luck using coconut oil in this stack? I've read some stuff recently about DHA and EPA not actually being that great for you, promoting oxidation and supressing oxidative metabolism and whatnot.

[timtam777]

I'm interested in the folic acid/UMP combo as I'm taking UMP/Fish Oil (DHA/EPA) Grape Seed Extract combo to alleviate anhedonia and zero libido problems. Ive been taking this combo for a little over a week with not very noticable effects except for an initial clarity on waking up in the morning, and a slight rise in libido. These effects are 99% gone, but there's something there that's making me feel slightly better, but can't pinpoint what it is.
I'm interested to hear if anyone else has libido improvements from this combo...

Edited by timtam777, 23 August 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Hope47]

Just ordered Uridine and DHA online.I did not order folic acid.Is it necessary.

[MrHappy]

Just ordered Uridine and DHA online.I did not order folic acid.Is it necessary.

Yes. A good multi B is required, for preference.

[Ames]

I'm interested in the folic acid/UMP combo as I'm taking UMP/Fish Oil (DHA/EPA) Grape Seed Extract combo to alleviate anhedonia and zero libido problems. Ive been taking this combo for a little over a week with not very noticable effects except for an initial clarity on waking up in the morning, and a slight rise in libido. These effects are 99% gone, but there's something there that's making me feel slightly better, but can't pinpoint what it is.
I'm interested to hear if anyone else has libido improvements from this combo...

Keep going with it. For many people here, including myself, it's effects got stronger with time. I'd at least get through that entire bottle of UMP before you decide. For me, the last 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle was different than the first 2/3 to 3/4 of it.

I did 99% of my first bottle taking nothing with it but folic acid every other day and had a great response to it after a while. I know that many here swear by the DHA, and I believe it, but others noticed a dampeining effect on their libido (reference the beginning of the thread). If you are looking to treat anhedonia and libido issues, and you aren't getting the desired result, I'd suggest dropping the DHA (and choline if you are taking that) for a while and see how you feel. You might find that the dopaminergic respose that you desire is better attained without DHA or choline, although this is just based on anecdotal evidence. I'm too lazy (actually I don't have the time) to go digging through research at the moment. It may contradict this recommendation or confirm it. I took choline today with my UMP, for the first time since I started the bottle, and noticed a dampening effect on dopamine. I did not enjoy it after getting used to the effects of UMP alone, although I believe that the response was predictable. The science says that neurogenisis is better attained with adding either or both choline and DHA, but your subjective experience should ultimately be your guide. It's just going to take some long term experimentation with the right combination for your neurochemistry, as anything positive that occurs will take a few weeks to really become apparent. I'm always a fan of starting off with as few ingredients in a stack as absolutely necessary, and adding from there.

Edited by golgi1, 24 August 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[mrak1979]

Mr. Happy or anybody, would AOR's multi-basics 3 suffice for the b-vitamin supplementation with 300mg UMP sublingual per day?

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/33054

[MrHappy]

Mr. Happy or anybody, would AOR's multi-basics 3 suffice for the b-vitamin supplementation with 300mg UMP sublingual per day?

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/33054

Perhaps take 1 every 2-3 days. Some unusual ratios in that product.

Mr. Happy or anybody, would AOR's multi-basics 3 suffice for the b-vitamin supplementation with 300mg UMP sublingual per day?

http://www.iherb.com...ggie-Caps/33054

Actually, since the serving size is 3 capsules, you could just take 1 per day.

[timtam777]

I'm interested in the folic acid/UMP combo as I'm taking UMP/Fish Oil (DHA/EPA) Grape Seed Extract combo to alleviate anhedonia and zero libido problems. Ive been taking this combo for a little over a week with not very noticable effects except for an initial clarity on waking up in the morning, and a slight rise in libido. These effects are 99% gone, but there's something there that's making me feel slightly better, but can't pinpoint what it is.
I'm interested to hear if anyone else has libido improvements from this combo...

Keep going with it. For many people here, including myself, it's effects got stronger with time. I'd at least get through that entire bottle of UMP before you decide. For me, the last 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottle was different than the first 2/3 to 3/4 of it.

I did 99% of my first bottle taking nothing with it but folic acid every other day and had a great response to it after a while. I know that many here swear by the DHA, and I believe it, but others noticed a dampeining effect on their libido (reference the beginning of the thread). If you are looking to treat anhedonia and libido issues, and you aren't getting the desired result, I'd suggest dropping the DHA (and choline if you are taking that) for a while and see how you feel. You might find that the dopaminergic respose that you desire is better attained without DHA or choline, although this is just based on anecdotal evidence. I'm too lazy (actually I don't have the time) to go digging through research at the moment. It may contradict this recommendation or confirm it. I took choline today with my UMP, for the first time since I started the bottle, and noticed a dampening effect on dopamine. I did not enjoy it after getting used to the effects of UMP alone, although I believe that the response was predictable. The science says that neurogenisis is better attained with adding either or both choline and DHA, but your subjective experience should ultimately be your guide. It's just going to take some long term experimentation with the right combination for your neurochemistry, as anything positive that occurs will take a few weeks to really become apparent. I'm always a fan of starting off with as few ingredients in a stack as absolutely necessary, and adding from there.

Thanks for the reply! 2.5 weeks in and I am still not feeling much improvement. I think I may just continue with UMP and one of my mega B tablets which does include 250mcg folic acid, just to see if that improves anything. cheers!

Edited by timtam777, 28 August 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[timtam777]

Well a couple of days into the UMP/folic acid combo and I've gotten very grumpy and irritable. This morning I was very irritable and I took a 250mg choline tablet with my 250mg UMP - the irritability completely lifted. Feeling chilled and relaxed again.
Looks like that's the combo for me!
I have some noopept on the way from SN, so I'll add a 10mg morning dose of noopept to the mix...

[Hope47]

Guys,sublingual dose is over the tongue or under the tongue.

[Major Legend]

I believe you slip the powder under your tongue, rest your tongue on the powder until it dissolves through the membrane there.

[Chadwick]

You who have tried both - how similar are the effects from uridine and Wellbutrin? Uridine made absolute wonders for me for a few weeks but has now stopped working, and I'm looking for something that gives a similar effect.

Edited by Chadwick, 03 September 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[MrHappy]

You who have tried both - how similar are the effects from uridine and Wellbutrin? Uridine made absolute wonders for me for a few weeks but has now stopped working, and I'm looking for something that gives a similar effect.

What doses are you taking and what cofactors?

[timtam777]

You who have tried both - how similar are the effects from uridine and Wellbutrin? Uridine made absolute wonders for me for a few weeks but has now stopped working, and I'm looking for something that gives a similar effect.

I've taken Wellbutrin, but only for three weeks as I couldn't afford it long term. I didn't get past the rough (and it was rough!!) workup period, but had a great two day "honeymoon" period when I first started on it. I have read that once you get past the workup period, it works really well. But I have read that it can take a couple of months for some people...

I will have taken Uridine for three weeks this week and I must say I'm feeling better for it. Noticing it's effects more now. More focussed and motivated at work, and a little more social/talkative. Not much, but noticeable.

[Chadwick]

You who have tried both - how similar are the effects from uridine and Wellbutrin? Uridine made absolute wonders for me for a few weeks but has now stopped working, and I'm looking for something that gives a similar effect.

What doses are you taking and what cofactors?

At first I was only taking 25 mg TAU with 1000 mg EPA/600 mg DHA. The effects were amazing, but lasted only for a little more than a week. I've been suffering from something I believe to be a chronic hypodopaminergic state, somewhat similar to the negative symptoms of schizophrenia but much much weaker. Uridine completely alleviated all my symptoms and made me feel like a complete version of myself for the first time in years. Absolutely mind-blowing.

After that combo stopped working I experimented around a bit, and managed to regain the same effects by taking the same amount of fish oil, but with 1800 mg (!) UMP sublingually. The effects of this combo lasted for two weeks, and stopped working after that. The whole thing kind of reminds me of other people's description of Wellbutrin's honeymoon effects.

I've experimented around since then with different doses of TAU and UMP (orally and sublingually) together with 5-MTHF, Grape Seed Extract, vitamin E, inositol and a multi, but without being able to get the results back.

Currently I'm using 1000 mg EPA/600 mg DHA, 250 mg UMP sublingually, GSE, CDP-choline and a multi, but without any noticeable effect.

Edited by Chadwick, 04 September 2012 - 10:27 AM.