2844 replies to this topic

[Dissolvedissolve]

I would just like to mention that you should probably be cautious in dosing sulbutiamine on a daily basis. Although I do not believe its mechanisms are fully elucidated, there are plenty of reports of withdrawal after 3-5 days of continuous usage. I use it occasionally, but the effects seem to be dopaminergic, with some possible NE-related effects. Sulbutiamine is a b-vitamin derivative, but that doesn't mean its b-vitamin characteristics are responsible for its effects.

Also, on an unrelated note, I started a trial of 10g/day brewer's yeast as a uridine source. I am aware it may not be perfect, but it is far cheaper than UMP or TAU. If I experience no results, it obviously isn't a mark against uridine supplementation.

[alecnevsky]

If you say, "I use it occasionally, but the effects seem to be dopaminergic, with some possible NE-related effects," then I have no idea, as it doesn't seem to agree with the studies(insofar as I can understand them) or how I feel when taking my fat soluble caps. I may hold off on Tau + Sulb for now, take my "up" mix without them and then add them into the equation to see any difference.

[killshot]

I'm going to try Uridine 5'-monophosphate 300 mg capsules. Placed my order today.

[Dissolvedissolve]

If you say, "I use it occasionally, but the effects seem to be dopaminergic, with some possible NE-related effects," then I have no idea, as it doesn't seem to agree with the studies(insofar as I can understand them) or how I feel when taking my fat soluble caps. I may hold off on Tau + Sulb for now, take my "up" mix without them and then add them into the equation to see any difference.

The studies that I have seen indicate an increase of D1 receptors in the PFC, but that does not speak to its dopaminergic effects in other parts of the brain. It is also known to have effects on glutamate neurotransmission. When I say that it seems to be dopaminergic, I mean that it tends to increase motivation and reward-seeking behavior in my experience - and in that of many others. There's some discussion of sulbutiamine's effects, "crash," and possible tolerance here:

http://www.longecity...4-sulbutiamine/

in any case, this is way off-topic. I just try to offer a warning when people report good results with possibly habit-forming substances.

[Guardian4981]

Raising the floor is the first thing I notice. Arguably, happiness is freedom from pain / irritation.

What's your current dosing schedule look like?

Hi,

For now I am taking 25 mg in the morning after breakfast. I have tried up to 150 mg spread throughout the day but seems when I go more then 25 mg I feel more serotonin dominance.

I have recently added bocopa pre bed, since doing so I feel very good, probably the best I have felt in a few years.

Perhaps in a few weeks I will try boosting uridine back up to 50mg daily.

I think while biology is important the psychological aspect also is, the past few years with grad school and such my life reached a point where it was a daily sacrifice for work and school and such. I need to work on motivational pleasure seeking cues again to work alongside potential dopamine up regulation.

[alecnevsky]

If you say, "I use it occasionally, but the effects seem to be dopaminergic, with some possible NE-related effects," then I have no idea, as it doesn't seem to agree with the studies(insofar as I can understand them) or how I feel when taking my fat soluble caps. I may hold off on Tau + Sulb for now, take my "up" mix without them and then add them into the equation to see any difference.

The studies that I have seen indicate an increase of D1 receptors in the PFC, but that does not speak to its dopaminergic effects in other parts of the brain. It is also known to have effects on glutamate neurotransmission. When I say that it seems to be dopaminergic, I mean that it tends to increase motivation and reward-seeking behavior in my experience - and in that of many others. There's some discussion of sulbutiamine's effects, "crash," and possible tolerance here:

http://www.longecity...4-sulbutiamine/

in any case, this is way off-topic. I just try to offer a warning when people report good results with possibly habit-forming substances.

Thanks. Great thread.

My on-topic question however was whether, regardless of D1 receptors, both TAU and Sulb modulated dopamine neurotransmitters and, in my context (since i am taking dopamine precursors,) could lead to less immediate dopamine available. I am still not sure of the answer.

[cap3]

Hi

I have been reading and following this thread with great interest for some time now. I have tried the Uridine stack with varying dosages and with both UMP and TAU.

I was taking:
350mg UMP Subl.
Multi vitamin (including B's)
800IU Vitamin E
1000mg DHA
600mg EPA


Unfortunately I just did not get the results that others seem to be getting.My main problems are dythymia, social anxiety and poor speech fluency. I did give the Uridine a good few weeks but no real effects were present. The most I was taking was 350mg sub. (one full scoop of SN uridine)

I am going to try this again but this time not taking so much Fish oil, and adding in 1-2g of Tyrosine in the mornings.

I'm planning on taking:

350mg UMP orally
B-complex vitamin (multi)
800IU Vitamin E
400mg EPA
200mg DHA
1-2 grams L-Tyronsine (am)
Possibly 250mg CDP Choline

I do have a few questions if possible,

1. Tyrosine really helps my depression and makes me more sociable, I only take it a few times per week as I don't want it to lose its effectiveness. It helps with speech fluency too. Would Uridine help with tolerance issues, and therefore give me the same effects from the Tyrosine over long term use?

2. Although Dopamine is definately low in my case, I do have alot of the symptoms of low serotonin. Would adding Inositol be o.k. with this combo? 5 htp and L tryptophan don't seem to help at all.

3. I have to make sure I always have no more than 7 hrs sleep otherwise I get very depressed and irritable. This works the best for my depression but can after a while leave me quite tired. Could the Uridine help with this tiredness long term and therefore enable me to have less sleep and not end up feeling exhausted

4. I do drink about 3 coffees a week and smoke 4-5 cigarettes a day, (cut right down when started Uridine) would this be enough to stop the effects of the Uridine?

5. Looking to add in lions mane would this be ok with this combo?


Thanks

[synaptiq]

My UMP arrived today and I'm eager to see how this compares to my previous experience with 20-30g/day of brewer's yeast. However, I've been on N-acetylcysteine the last couple days to try to clear out a sinus infection. Does anyone have experience mixing these two? I'm guessing I should lay off the caffeine till I'm done with the NAC and then reintroduce it very slowly.

[synaptiq]

Followup: I waited maybe 10 minutes for a response then took half a scoop (125-150mg) sublingual, having consumed 2g NAC over the course of the day and no caffeine since lunch. Other cofactors were already covered. I'm definitely feeling some dopamine, but my resting heart rate is normal and I don't feel very speedy. I've been doing some more reading on NAC and dopamine, having been more concerned with its mucus-thinning properties when I first picked it up, and it's looking like more of a modulator than anything else. It seemed speedier yesterday but in retrospect I think that was more the Monday morning coffee consumptiion. I think I'll go with full scoop sublingual (I do have a milligram scale but calibrating the scoop isn't a big priority for me) for the rest of the week and then see how it goes minus NAC after my head's cleared out a little better.

[Raza]

NAC doesn't noticeably interact with uridine, in my experience.

@cap3

1. Taking uridine on your non-tyrosine days should definitely help with tolerance. When you take them together, it's a bit unpredictable, both qua effect and resistance building; you'll have to experiment. Personally, I'd try tyrosine by day and uridine at night.

2. Inositol is good. It's another cofactor for building phospholipids, like choline, and might well be synergistic.

3. It's been known to help alertness and compensate for sleep dept, but if you haven't experienced that effect over a few weeks of using it, I personally wouldn't hold my breath. Try it with tyrosine like you planned before discarding the idea, though.

4. No idea about this one.

5. Sure. There's no interaction AFAIK, they just both help with brain-building in their own separate ways.

[Dale Taylor]

Got my uridine today from superiornutraceuticals. Looks like table salt and tastes a bit like salt(not as salty as salt mind you. Is that right?

[stablemind]

Got my uridine today from superiornutraceuticals. Looks like table salt and tastes a bit like salt(not as salty as salt mind you. Is that right?

yup

[Guardian4981]

I started stacking bacopa as I mentioned last Friday. The first few days I felt better, then the last couple I felt worse. Yesterday my depression took a turn for the worst and at work when I was taking to a co worker I suddenly had some harsh vertigo which I had to go outside for. I also was getting stomach cramps. Mind you mondays are not the best day to gauge my progress is I had a 4 day weekend and it was my first day "back" at work.

That said last night I did not take the Bacopa. Today I am feeling noticably better as the day goes on.

Also, for months I have been dealing with symptoms that from my research appear perhaps related to adrenal fatigue and more specifically vitamin B5 burnout. Since all I eat for carbs are berries and quinoa and my multi was cheap I may not have been getting enough. Furthermore anything that lowers blood pressure (I was taking olive leaf extract for overall health not necessarily blood pressure) along with people prone to anxiety like me will use up B5.

Therefore I first was going to be Thorn B complex #5, then I decided to just go ahead and get the Thorn Multi. I will be getting it in the mail hopefully tomorrow. My hope is a very good b complex along with trace minerals (both within the multi)and such will help the Urdine and also relieve me some relief to the adrenal fatigue low B5 symptoms I have been having.

I would also like to mention that I have been swapping fish oil in and out, it does indeed appear when using fish oil I feel a bit better, mentally that is. My issue with fish oil is it sometimes gives me more nasal congestion that occasionally results in headaches. I have partially mitigated this in the past using astragalus, but I am trying to cut down on how many supplements I use.

I hope I haven't got too far off topic, but I do feel health, especially mental, is a very holistic issue.

One more thing I would like to point out which I have not seen in this thread anywhere. The biggest benefit uridine seems to give me is a noticible reduction in OCD, specifically obsessive thoughts recurring. I personally think that for some, depression/anxiety actually stems from ocd. From this perspective, if one gets the ocd down, the anxiety and depression while not immediate, will likely improve as time goes on and the thought "wiring" in the brain loses its strength.

I have read some research which indicates that neural networks when activated cause an influence on neurotransmitters, some favorable, some unfavorable. Often ocd related networks are unfavorable. If one does not reinforce the networks as much whether through therapy or what not, the networks will slowly lose their strength and have less of an influence on the brain chemistry.

In a pm to MrHappy I believe I mentioned, that overall it seems while my mood has not been boosted a lot, rather my mood does not sink as often like it used to which hopefully may be the first step in the right direction.

Edited by Guardian4981, 27 November 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[killshot]

Anybody know what if any effect Uridine will have on adrenal glands?

Sent from my HTC rezound using tapatalk

[Guardian4981]

Anybody know what if any effect Uridine will have on adrenal glands?

Sent from my HTC rezound using tapatalk

My Happy may be able to chime in more as he is more knowledgable on the studies, I still have to go through them again.

That said I believe Uridine is supposed to be of some help to mitochondria function, this in theory should provide some adrenal relief.

My guess is Uridine probably is not necessarily a top supplement to use for adrenal fatigue, but it will not hurt, it may even help some.

[cap3]

Thanks for the answers Raza

I have been taking the following of the last 4 days now:
350mg UMP orally before bed
B-complex vitamin (multi)
800IU Vitamin E
400mg EPA
200mg DHA
1 grams L-Tyronsine (am)

The last two days I have been feeling a bit more depressed and anxious. When I take the tyrosine in the morning it has no effect now and my verbal fluency was worse today.

Thinking to try and reduce the dose to 100mg orally.
Is it possible to experience negative results before the positive ones?

[synaptiq]

Did you change anything else in your stack at the same time as starting the uridine?

[cap3]

I have added in a multi vitamin with higher levels of b vitamins than my last one:

http://www.biocare.c...oductGuid=50030

B vitamins have in the past not agreed with me that well so maybe this could be contributing to the negative feelings.

[synaptiq]

Drop the uridine and go back to your old multivitamin for a few days to let everything get back to normal. Then try just the new multi for a few days , no uridine, to see if that's the problem. If it is, just use the old multi with the uridine - it'll be fine so long as it covers the RDA for folic acid*, B6, and B12. If the vitamin wasn't the problem, try adding a small dose of choline to the uridine and see if that makes things better or worse. Depression can be a sign of too little choline as well as too much, and the brain fog could also be a choline issue.


*When I say folic acid, I'm assuming that you can metabolize it into folate properly. If you haven't been tested for MHTFR mutation, it might be worth experimenting with methylfolate, but this doesn't really sound like a folate deficiency.

[Raza]

Thanks for the answers Raza

I have been taking the following of the last 4 days now:
350mg UMP orally before bed
B-complex vitamin (multi)
800IU Vitamin E
400mg EPA
200mg DHA
1 grams L-Tyronsine (am)

The last two days I have been feeling a bit more depressed and anxious. When I take the tyrosine in the morning it has no effect now and my verbal fluency was worse today.

Thinking to try and reduce the dose to 100mg orally.
Is it possible to experience negative results before the positive ones?

Do you usually feel the tyrosine hitting?

If so, try taking your uridine two hours before bed (or two hours earlier than you are now). Uridine can negate dopamine fluctuations during the first hours of its activity; if it is lingering when you take your tyrosine that might explain the lack of effect. (although its not unusual to stop noticing tyrosine as clearly after a while, even with no special cause)

I've no experience with daily UMP, so I can't answer your other question.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

Thanks for the answers Raza

I have been taking the following of the last 4 days now:
350mg UMP orally before bed
B-complex vitamin (multi)
800IU Vitamin E
400mg EPA
200mg DHA
1 grams L-Tyronsine (am)

The last two days I have been feeling a bit more depressed and anxious. When I take the tyrosine in the morning it has no effect now and my verbal fluency was worse today.

Thinking to try and reduce the dose to 100mg orally.
Is it possible to experience negative results before the positive ones?

I've read that the EPA/DHA is actually the most important ingredient of the mix. If this is true, and you're only taking 400mg EPA/ 200mg DHA you should probably up the dose. Mr. Happy recommends more than 700mg DHA & 300mg EPA with even less Uridine than you're taking. I think your ratios are off. He also states that too much Uridine could enable an emotional dullness. I'm sure that can be translated into a depressive state if you're not used to it.

Edited by CrackaLackN, 29 November 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[MrHappy]

So I wonder whether I should not take the latter while on a dopamine precursor/stimulant stack.

I am looking for a sustainable stimulant alternative that could be used at least 3 times a week.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Decrease of DA via Tau?
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10996447 Decrease of DA via Sulb. ?

It's a DA modulator, pulling you to 'normal'. I wouldn't use it as a stimulant, unless you suffer low DA levels. It would make a good recovery agent after substances that spike DA and helps prevent tolerance.

[MrHappy]

Anybody know what if any effect Uridine will have on adrenal glands?

Sent from my HTC rezound using tapatalk

I've used larger doses of uridine to ameliorate adrenal fatigue a few times. My working life unfortunately has a lot of stress factors and adrenal fatigue used to be a common problem for me. The B vitamins are critical to this process and additional Bs should be considered for recovery.
Also, most importantly, sleep.

I have added in a multi vitamin with higher levels of b vitamins than my last one:

http://www.biocare.c...oductGuid=50030

B vitamins have in the past not agreed with me that well so maybe this could be contributing to the negative feelings.

It's potentially sounding like over-methylation. You could check your homocysteine levels with a blood test to get a better idea. There's a link at the bottom of post 1 that goes into some detail.

[alecnevsky]

So I wonder whether I should not take the latter while on a dopamine precursor/stimulant stack.

I am looking for a sustainable stimulant alternative that could be used at least 3 times a week.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Decrease of DA via Tau?
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10996447 Decrease of DA via Sulb. ?

It's a DA modulator, pulling you to 'normal'. I wouldn't use it as a stimulant, unless you suffer low DA levels. It would make a good recovery agent after substances that spike DA and helps prevent tolerance.

Thank you Sir! That's what I concluded and started taking Ani/Pram/Sulb/Uridine caps at night to prevent tolerance from my daily DoPES regimen-- dopamine precursor energy stack (ha.)

[cap3]

The whole methylation area has been really confusing for me.

I have not had my homocysteine levels checked but I have had blood histamine checked and that was high, meaning under methylator.

However SAMe makes me very anxious, TMG makes me emotionally flat and lethargic and B vitamin complexes make me feel slightly anxious.


I do well with magnesium and b6 and I can take methionine with no problems.

Perhaps I could try NAC is that not supposed to lower homocysteine levels? How long would it take to notice a difference?

[hephaestus]

I've found cdp can help considerably with brain fog and depression so I would suggest adding 250mg for a few days in a row and see if that helps. Too much choline can give you muscle soreness and depression, but I don't get either of those symptoms at 250mg/day of cdp.

Edited by hephaestus, 30 November 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[MikeMMK1990@gmail.com]

A question for MrHappy since you made this topic and continually promote the use of Uridine, DHA, and choline lol salut. I recently ordered triacetyluridine (taking once daily - 25mg started yesterday) and I'm still awaiting: fish oil ( going to take 2 pills for ~500mg DHA and ~70 EPA per day) and Alpha GPC choline (will take around 1 or 2 - so 250-500mg per day). I was wondering if I should drop any items from my current stack: Modafinil 200mg(off and on.. not every day, around 2-3 times per week if I wake up early with little sleep), caffeine (around 150-250mg per day without modaf. days or 50-100 on modaf. days), ginkgo biloba (120-240mg per day), vitamin D3 (2000 IU per day), vitamin B12 (500-1000mcg per day), magnesium glyciniate (400mg per day), and a meijer multivitamin with ginseng - similar to a centrum performance, and l-theanine (200-400mg per day). What would you suggest I take out or keep? Are there syngerists within what I listed or things that will just get in the way or make me feel funny with this U,D,C recommended stack in this topic? Let me know thanks. Also, when are the best times to take all 3 of these? (at the same time or throughout the day?) Haven't had time to look around the forums for answers due to finals if you can just answer my questions directly that would be greatly appreciated.

[alecnevsky]

"It's a DA modulator, pulling you to 'normal'. I wouldn't use it as a stimulant, unless you suffer low DA levels. It would make a good recovery agent after substances that spike DA and helps prevent tolerance."

I'd take Modafinil + Ginkgo in the morning and Uridine at night.

[MrHappy]

It's been a while since I've added more research papers. This was a good read [PDF]:
http://proteom.elte....Curr_Top_11.pdf

While some of it has been covered by other journal articles, this goes into a lot of depth, covers at lot more areas and lists 132 references.

[MrHappy]

Relationship with GABA and cyclic GMP:

http://europepmc.org...Ga1NFAIhsI6te.0

Interaction between uridine and GABA-mediated inhibitory transmission: studies in vivo and in vitro.

Na+-independent [3H]gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) binding to membrane preparations from frontal cortex, hippocampus, and thalamus is competitively inhibited by the in vitro addition of a naturally occurring pyrimidinic compound, uridine. Moreover, the intraperitoneal injection of uridine produces a dose-related decrease in the cerebellar content of cyclic GMP and antagonizes its increase elicited by bicuculline. The pyrimidinic compound also shows an antagonism toward bicuculline-induced seizures. The relationship between the anti-convulsant actions of uridine and GABA-mediated inhibitory neurotransmission is discussed in terms of an activation of GABA receptor function by the naturally occurring pyrimidinic compound.