2844 replies to this topic

[Guardian4981]

I can't tell you what to do you need to access your own body and how you feel. Bacopa after 3 days gave me harsh vertigo so I have not taken it since.

I personaly feel that gaba is not the problem in most people experiencing mental health issues or anxiety.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

I can't tell you what to do you need to access your own body and how you feel. Bacopa after 3 days gave me harsh vertigo so I have not taken it since.

I personaly feel that gaba is not the problem in most people experiencing mental health issues or anxiety.

Neither do I. User's of GABA related supplements in hopes of diminishing anxiety should only be looking towards them in the short-term, since they are not a cure.

[BioFreak]

There is some speculation bacopa influences 5ht receptors and serotonin, combined with uridine this may be sending your serotonin too high. High serotonin can cause anxiety. This was an issue I had for years as I used to have bad anxiety and would try to treat it with all kinds of known serotonin boosts and often I would get even worse. My anxiety has come way down when I siezed all serotonin boosting compounds and focused a bit on thyroid health with selenium and forskolin.

I had the worst panic attacks in my life(usually I don't have any) while on high doses of 5-htp. Turned out that the high levels of serotonin depleted dopamine, and that was one of the side effects. So in this case -> increase dopamine/catecholamines.

[spookytooth]

Can somebody recommend an European supplier of UMP?

[flurr]

I had the worst panic attacks in my life(usually I don't have any) while on high doses of 5-htp. Turned out that the high levels of serotonin depleted dopamine, and that was one of the side effects. So in this case -> increase dopamine/catecholamines.

Thanks for the help, sounds right. High serotonin could very well be the case for me actually. I have L-tyrosine at hand for dopamine increase which i recently bought, this is the only thing i've tried so far in regards to dopamine area. I definitely feel effects like motivation/focus and well being when taking around 1g. However, havn't dared to use it too much after reading about down-regulation of receptors/tolerance(?). Anyways, will start supplementing some for a couple of days and see where it takes me.

[MrHappy]

I'd +1 on bacopa as a possible anxiety cause for some people taking this stack, owing to its spiking effects on serotonin.

[BioFreak]

Can somebody recommend an European supplier of UMP?

Sadly there are only 2 uk shops that do have UMP, and they are expensive, here is one of them:
www.yourhealthbasket.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1380

shipment was fast though.

If anyone happens to know cheaper sources in europe, please step forward.

I had the worst panic attacks in my life(usually I don't have any) while on high doses of 5-htp. Turned out that the high levels of serotonin depleted dopamine, and that was one of the side effects. So in this case -> increase dopamine/catecholamines.

Thanks for the help, sounds right. High serotonin could very well be the case for me actually. I have L-tyrosine at hand for dopamine increase which i recently bought, this is the only thing i've tried so far in regards to dopamine area. I definitely feel effects like motivation/focus and well being when taking around 1g. However, havn't dared to use it too much after reading about down-regulation of receptors/tolerance(?). Anyways, will start supplementing some for a couple of days and see where it takes me.

Be prepared for sulfur depletion(according to http://www.neurosupport.com/ look at their studies(search their studies for cysteine), and according to me - personal experience). In short, anything that increases catecholamine synthesis increases the need for sulfur. This is because the enzymes needed for catecholamine production need sulfur to be built themselves. Also it is possible that increased catecholamine levels make the body require more glutathione which itself needs sulfur.

Edited by BioFreak, 06 May 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[prunk]

Can somebody recommend an European supplier of UMP?

Sadly there are only 2 uk shops that do have UMP, and they are expensive, here is one of them:
www.yourhealthbasket.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1380

shipment was fast though.

If anyone happens to know cheaper sources in europe, please step forward.

Jarrow now carries UMP. Hopefully soon available from iHerb.

Edited by prunk, 06 May 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[MEMOREX]

Can somebody recommend an European supplier of UMP?

Sadly there are only 2 uk shops that do have UMP, and they are expensive, here is one of them:
www.yourhealthbasket.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1380

shipment was fast though.

If anyone happens to know cheaper sources in europe, please step forward.

Jarrow now carries UMP. Hopefully soon available from iHerb.

http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/49383

[aarfai]

Can someone please give me a cliffnoted update on the recommended items and dosage?

Thank you.

[MrHappy]

Can someone please give me a cliffnoted update on the recommended items and dosage?

Thank you.

Sure, see post #1.

[BioFreak]

Can somebody recommend an European supplier of UMP?

Sadly there are only 2 uk shops that do have UMP, and they are expensive, here is one of them:
www.yourhealthbasket.co.uk/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1380

shipment was fast though.

If anyone happens to know cheaper sources in europe, please step forward.

Jarrow now carries UMP. Hopefully soon available from iHerb.

http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/49383

Thats an US source, though :/

[hani]

I don't know about Germany in particular, but you can order from iherb in Europe and not run into any trouble. Just don't order a lot of stuff.

Edited by hani, 07 May 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[DamnedOwl]

I don't know about Germany in particular, but you can order from iherb in Europe and not run into any trouble. Just don't order a lot of stuff.

True, but make sure that you instruct iHerb to ensure that all documents are also mounted externally on the package.

I yesterday received a letter from the customs office that I can only have my iHerb shipment once I've gone down there and show them the sale documents, which is inconvenient to say the least!

Still, iHerb are good - not only because a lot of their items are cheaper than most other places, but because they'll ship to Germany for as cheap as $4.

[prunk]

I yesterday received a letter from the customs office that I can only have my iHerb shipment once I've gone down there and show them the sale documents, which is inconvenient to say the least!

Mein Gott that sounds difficult.

[BioFreak]

The problem is lots of stuff is not allowed in germany. You'll have to check for every supplement if they allow it in. Not only that, the dosage needs to be within local law boundaries too. And the LABEL needs to fit local laws. yap.
And then there is the problem if normally only a pharmacy is allowed to sell it (even without prescription) you are not allowed to purchase it yourself UNLESS you order it through a pharmacy.
And its not even important if you have a prescription for prescription stuff if you order it directly, because its only allowed to order through a pharmacy, even if they have to order it from the us for example.
And if you purchase something that is not allowed and customs finds out, you'll get a penalty. The first time. The second time, probably worse, because now "you know not to do it".
So I am damn happy that when I ordered in amazon.co.uk and got my stuff shipped by US which I did not know would happen, that they did not put the bill on the box, but inside. So no harm done, simply let customs keep it, and send it back. If the bill was on the box, and they would have found something not legal, well, good luck with your first penalty.

And it does not stop there. Customs are often pretty insane with what they let through and what not, almost like they are throwing a coin. So it happens that stuff gets through, the same stuff does not get through next time, both time customs knew what was in it. It also depends on where customs checks your shipment. If its in frankfurt, they seem to be more lax, if its in munich, they even apply bavarian law even though they are not allowed to.

it is nothing more then a joke this customs office and german laws, and its not the first german law I could rant upon...

But anyways, ordering from within the EU saves me ALL this trouble, things simply arrive, and thats it. So this is why it's good to have suppliers within the EU.

[hani]

I agree that's it's sometimes not worth the hassle. I recomend using this http://www.healthmonthly.co.uk if you can't find a supplement on Amazon UK.

[DamnedOwl]

The problem is lots of stuff is not allowed in germany. You'll have to check for every supplement if they allow it in. Not only that, the dosage needs to be within local law boundaries too. And the LABEL needs to fit local laws. yap.
And then there is the problem if normally only a pharmacy is allowed to sell it (even without prescription) you are not allowed to purchase it yourself UNLESS you order it through a pharmacy.
And its not even important if you have a prescription for prescription stuff if you order it directly, because its only allowed to order through a pharmacy, even if they have to order it from the us for example.
And if you purchase something that is not allowed and customs finds out, you'll get a penalty. The first time. The second time, probably worse, because now "you know not to do it".
So I am damn happy that when I ordered in amazon.co.uk and got my stuff shipped by US which I did not know would happen, that they did not put the bill on the box, but inside. So no harm done, simply let customs keep it, and send it back. If the bill was on the box, and they would have found something not legal, well, good luck with your first penalty.

And it does not stop there. Customs are often pretty insane with what they let through and what not, almost like they are throwing a coin. So it happens that stuff gets through, the same stuff does not get through next time, both time customs knew what was in it. It also depends on where customs checks your shipment. If its in frankfurt, they seem to be more lax, if its in munich, they even apply bavarian law even though they are not allowed to.

it is nothing more then a joke this customs office and german laws, and its not the first german law I could rant upon...

But anyways, ordering from within the EU saves me ALL this trouble, things simply arrive, and thats it. So this is why it's good to have suppliers within the EU.

I've just returned from the Zollamt in Frankfurt where they wouldn't allow me what I'd ordered (which was Zembrin). I open the box for him, he takes the Zembrin to his desk, does a little research on the net, consults with a colleague, then comes back to me and tells me that it is a medicine and therefore I can't import it. So, now they'll send it back to iHerb, and hopefully I'll get my money back.

[blueinfinity]

I'd +1 on bacopa as a possible anxiety cause for some people taking this stack, owing to its spiking effects on serotonin.

I've also heard that bacopa is bad for men, in that is has studies showing shrinkage of male reproductive areas. Needless to say, i immediately cut that out of my regime, but i do take ashwaganda and tulsi (holy basil) nightly - [gaia herbs, adrenal support/stress response] <same product two different names/marketing>
and that seems to have effect some days, and other days not so much... anyone else getting this?

[flurr]

Be prepared for sulfur depletion(according to http://www.neurosupport.com/ look at their studies(search their studies for cysteine), and according to me - personal experience). In short, anything that increases catecholamine synthesis increases the need for sulfur. This is because the enzymes needed for catecholamine production need sulfur to be built themselves. Also it is possible that increased catecholamine levels make the body require more glutathione which itself needs sulfur.

Thanks, checked it up and ordered some Sulfur! Now i dont know about using L-tyrosine long-term more than it could lead to downregulation of dopamine receptors, dont want that. Do you (or anyone) have a clue of how i could supplement this without causing myself trouble in dopamine area? Personally, i mostly feel that Tyrosine works great for me when taken on empty stomach.

I've also heard that bacopa is bad for men, in that is has studies showing shrinkage of male reproductive areas. Needless to say, i immediately cut that out of my regime, but i do take ashwaganda and tulsi (holy basil) nightly - [gaia herbs, adrenal support/stress response] <same product two different names/marketing>
and that seems to have effect some days, and other days not so much... anyone else getting this?

I can attest to this, i havnt had much desire to engage in sexual activities since i've included Bacopa in my regime. Didnt do my research properly enough! Shame since i've been on it for atleast 4 months, and prior to the montly break i had before that; maybe 4 months aswell. Will see how it works out now that i've cut it out.

[hullcrush]

The mechanism of action was touched upon briefly as being reminiscent of glutaminergic activation, which I would have to concur. I don't think it induces peripheral prolactinemia, but central cholinergic activation would inhibit dopamine at the hypothalamus and amplify the inhibition of dopamine in the amygdala. This excludes firing and tonic/phasic properties of catecholamines, I'm not well-read in any aspect brain physiology.

In short, wouldn't the benefits of that be state-specific? You'd have some success with dampening symptoms of bipolar depression with a possible rebound effect with a tmax of 80 minutes, assuming a priori uridine affects dopamine somehow. As an alternate and wide speculation, I don't see how lowering glucocorticoid levels would not release AVP and oxytocin from the posterior pituitary, the latter of which would explain the mollifying feeling of uridine. It seems to moderately release all other pituitary hormones, save for FSH (which is more tightly controlled by inhibin/adrenal steroids).

Note the release of hormone precursors like LH in absence of other stimulation has a negative effect on working memory, broad and possibly relevant caveats aside. A poster mentioned the NMDA system being significantly affected, I'm a year or three removed from commenting and hope they expound further. You can try uridine, but have about $20 worth of expectations.

[DamnedOwl]

I notice SmartPowders have just got in a stock of UMP powder which seems temptingly priced.

Not much help for those that want an EU based supplier of course, but still...

[umop 3pisdn]

After trying this stack for about four days I actually find TAU more effective than sublingual UMP for some reason.

Edited by umop 3pisdn, 11 May 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[hani]

I notice SmartPowders have just got in a stock of UMP powder which seems temptingly priced.

Not much help for those that want an EU based supplier of course, but still...

It helps. I just ordered from there. Last time I ordered UMP, it costed me 35.23 GBP (around 54 USD) for a 2 month supply (60 300mg capsules). I just ordered from smartpowders and it's 28USD for 30 grams (for a 100 days supply), hopefully there won't be a problem when it gets here.

[DamnedOwl]

I notice SmartPowders have just got in a stock of UMP powder which seems temptingly priced.

Not much help for those that want an EU based supplier of course, but still...

It helps. I just ordered from there. Last time I ordered UMP, it costed me 35.23 GBP (around 54 USD) for a 2 month supply (60 300mg capsules). I just ordered from smartpowders and it's 28USD for 30 grams (for a 100 days supply), hopefully there won't be a problem when it gets here.

I think I originally bought my current batch of UMP from the same British source you did. Smart Powders is definitely cheaper, and having the UMP in powder form is also far more convenient for me.

I've just bought 90 grams worth from them anyway, and went with their DHL 1-2 days shipping which was about $21. I've asked Smart Powders to ensure that all the billing documents are enclosed on the outside of the packet too, so hopefully customs will not have anything to take issue with.

[hani]

I notice SmartPowders have just got in a stock of UMP powder which seems temptingly priced.

Not much help for those that want an EU based supplier of course, but still...

It helps. I just ordered from there. Last time I ordered UMP, it costed me 35.23 GBP (around 54 USD) for a 2 month supply (60 300mg capsules). I just ordered from smartpowders and it's 28USD for 30 grams (for a 100 days supply), hopefully there won't be a problem when it gets here.

I think I originally bought my current batch of UMP from the same British source you did. Smart Powders is definitely cheaper, and having the UMP in powder form is also far more convenient for me.

I've just bought 90 grams worth from them anyway, and went with their DHL 1-2 days shipping which was about $21. I've asked Smart Powders to ensure that all the billing documents are enclosed on the outside of the packet too, so hopefully customs will not have anything to take issue with.

Where did you see the DHL 1-2 days shipping option for 21$? What I get is this:
United States Postal Service
First-Class Package International Service $10.40 (est. 2-4 weeks)
Priority Mail International $35.00 (est. 4-5 days)
Express Mail International $50.00 (est. 1-3 days)

plus FedEx options.

[BioFreak]

I've just returned from the Zollamt in Frankfurt where they wouldn't allow me what I'd ordered (which was Zembrin). I open the box for him, he takes the Zembrin to his desk, does a little research on the net, consults with a colleague, then comes back to me and tells me that it is a medicine and therefore I can't import it. So, now they'll send it back to iHerb, and hopefully I'll get my money back.

Such a joke... Don't worry, you can buy it in GB too.

Be prepared for sulfur depletion(according to http://www.neurosupport.com/ look at their studies(search their studies for cysteine), and according to me - personal experience). In short, anything that increases catecholamine synthesis increases the need for sulfur. This is because the enzymes needed for catecholamine production need sulfur to be built themselves. Also it is possible that increased catecholamine levels make the body require more glutathione which itself needs sulfur.

Thanks, checked it up and ordered some Sulfur! Now i dont know about using L-tyrosine long-term more than it could lead to downregulation of dopamine receptors, dont want that. Do you (or anyone) have a clue of how i could supplement this without causing myself trouble in dopamine area? Personally, i mostly feel that Tyrosine works great for me when taken on empty stomach.

The downregulation of receptors should be minor, if any, since the brain can control dopamine levels in this case by decreasing tyrosine hydroxylase, rendering much of the supplemented tyrosine useless because it does not get converted into l-dopa anymore, which itself then gets converted to dopamine etc. There can be several other reasons tyrosine supplementation does not work anymore, such as sulfur and/or enzyme or cofactor depletion.

[BioFreak]

"Uridine Function in the Central Nervous System" has a graph(Fig.1) that shows that uridine can be converted into cdp choline in the brain.

Wouldn't that mean that cdp-choline as choline source would spare some uridine in the brain for other functions (and even donate uridine, depending on dosage)? Just another reason for my beloved cdp-choline.

[DamnedOwl]

I notice SmartPowders have just got in a stock of UMP powder which seems temptingly priced.

Not much help for those that want an EU based supplier of course, but still...

It helps. I just ordered from there. Last time I ordered UMP, it costed me 35.23 GBP (around 54 USD) for a 2 month supply (60 300mg capsules). I just ordered from smartpowders and it's 28USD for 30 grams (for a 100 days supply), hopefully there won't be a problem when it gets here.

I think I originally bought my current batch of UMP from the same British source you did. Smart Powders is definitely cheaper, and having the UMP in powder form is also far more convenient for me.

I've just bought 90 grams worth from them anyway, and went with their DHL 1-2 days shipping which was about $21. I've asked Smart Powders to ensure that all the billing documents are enclosed on the outside of the packet too, so hopefully customs will not have anything to take issue with.

Where did you see the DHL 1-2 days shipping option for 21$? What I get is this:
United States Postal Service
First-Class Package International Service $10.40 (est. 2-4 weeks)
Priority Mail International $35.00 (est. 4-5 days)
Express Mail International $50.00 (est. 1-3 days)

plus FedEx options.

This was the first time I'd seen the DHL option on there - and it doesn't actually become an option until you've got enough in your shopping cart. I don't know precisely at what point it becomes an option, but it's around the $35-40 point.

Last time I went with the USPS First-Class Package International Service, since it was the cheapest - but the downside was that it didn't arrive for 5 weeks (although the customs sat on it for most of that).

I've just returned from the Zollamt in Frankfurt where they wouldn't allow me what I'd ordered (which was Zembrin). I open the box for him, he takes the Zembrin to his desk, does a little research on the net, consults with a colleague, then comes back to me and tells me that it is a medicine and therefore I can't import it. So, now they'll send it back to iHerb, and hopefully I'll get my money back.

Such a joke... Don't worry, you can buy it in GB too.

Really?! Where?

[Izan]

new study; http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23648515