2844 replies to this topic

[abelard lindsay]

That's got nothing to do with ciltep specifically though right? It should affect everyone that way, assuming those results even generalize to humans in vivo.

So my theory is that the brain cells are growing their dendrites out because of CILTEP and they're hungry for amino acids to put all those proteins together so maybe the tyrptophan and tyrosine are entering the cell to support that more quickly because of uridine and then their levels outside the cell decline and that's what leads to the unpleasantness the next day.

I base this on two observations.

1. The uridine stack + CILTEP is *really* great while it's working. I've gotten some of my highest cambridgebrainsciences.com scores ever while taking it.

2. The crash is very serotoniny. It's not a choline overload which creates these very obvious feelings of dread, headaches, neckaches, etc. It is also quickly fixed by tryptophan.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 01 November 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[hephaestus]

The uridine stack is supposed to promote dendritic branching and membrane health by supplying more raw materials, namely fish oil and uridine for the synthesis of phospholipids like phosphatidylcholine. The increased cAMP from CILTEP will speed up all kinds of different processes, quite possibly including the aforementioned membrane synthesis. We've already established that CILTEP likely depletes tyrosine through upregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase. It may also upregulate tryptophan hydroxylase, I'm just not sure why adding uridine on top of CILTEP would so dramatically deplete serotonin.

[Adaptogen]

So I placed my order from SmartPowders with the longecity code for the free 20grams UMP uridine. I received this substance along with my order of oxiracetam:
http://tinypic.com/r/2u6pdw2/5
http://tinypic.com/r/a3csbk/5

However, this powder, labelled Uridine UMP still seems pretty inconsistent with the characteristics of other companies' UMP (such as SuperiorNutraceuticals). The taste is plain and bitter. The consistently is of clumping flour. It does not have the characteristic salt grain and salt taste that my other uridine has.

Has there been any update in regards to the COA of this new shipment?

[unregistered_user]

So I placed my order from SmartPowders with the longecity code for the free 20grams UMP uridine. I received this substance along with my order of oxiracetam:
http://tinypic.com/r/2u6pdw2/5
http://tinypic.com/r/a3csbk/5

However, this powder, labelled Uridine UMP still seems pretty inconsistent with the characteristics of other companies' UMP (such as SuperiorNutraceuticals). The taste is plain and bitter. The consistently is of clumping flour. It does not have the characteristic salt grain and salt taste that my other uridine has.

Has there been any update in regards to the COA of this new shipment?

I've read every page in this thread. Wondering if you did any reading in here at all before ordering from SP? It has been well documented that their UMP is NOT the same as what you get from SN.

[Adaptogen]

So I placed my order from SmartPowders with the longecity code for the free 20grams UMP uridine. I received this substance along with my order of oxiracetam:
http://tinypic.com/r/2u6pdw2/5
http://tinypic.com/r/a3csbk/5

However, this powder, labelled Uridine UMP still seems pretty inconsistent with the characteristics of other companies' UMP (such as SuperiorNutraceuticals). The taste is plain and bitter. The consistently is of clumping flour. It does not have the characteristic salt grain and salt taste that my other uridine has.

Has there been any update in regards to the COA of this new shipment?

I've read every page in this thread. Wondering if you did any reading in here at all before ordering from SP? It has been well documented that their UMP is NOT the same as what you get from SN.

Yes..that is all well understood. I am guessing that in reading every page of this very long thread you unintentionally skipped over some important posts, such as this one on the previous page, where SP representative made an appearance http://www.longecity...post__p__620797

[unregistered_user]

So I placed my order from SmartPowders with the longecity code for the free 20grams UMP uridine. I received this substance along with my order of oxiracetam:
http://tinypic.com/r/2u6pdw2/5
http://tinypic.com/r/a3csbk/5

However, this powder, labelled Uridine UMP still seems pretty inconsistent with the characteristics of other companies' UMP (such as SuperiorNutraceuticals). The taste is plain and bitter. The consistently is of clumping flour. It does not have the characteristic salt grain and salt taste that my other uridine has.

Has there been any update in regards to the COA of this new shipment?

I've read every page in this thread. Wondering if you did any reading in here at all before ordering from SP? It has been well documented that their UMP is NOT the same as what you get from SN.

Yes..that is all well understood. I am guessing that in reading every page of this very long thread you unintentionally skipped over some important posts, such as this one on the previous page, where SP representative made an appearance http://www.longecity...post__p__620797

You're right, sorry! I did miss that post. My fault. Carry on...

[Judd Crane]

Maybe the Uridine base should be dosed in the 500-1000 mg range as suggested by examine.com?

[Potent]

Question for you all:

To gain the max benefits from the mr. Happy stack, do you recommend coingestion of Mg and zinc in the morning at the same time I dose uridine, fish oil, agpc, and b complex?

I ask because I take chelated Mg and zinc methionine at night before I go to sleep, as a part of my established regimen. I know that zinc isn't really stored in the body, so I'm wondering if zinc in the morning with the stack will max benefits. I am getting good benefits already wih just the uridine stack and leaving mg and zinc at night.

Mg and zinc tend to induce sleep nicely, so I'd prefer to keep them before bed. Also the zinc methionine (30 mg) + copper (15 mcg) supplement I take gives me a weird flushy head feeling that interferes with studying, so better right before bed.

Edited by Potent, 10 November 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[MrHappy]

Maybe the Uridine base should be dosed in the 500-1000 mg range as suggested by examine.com?

That's not a dose for everyone. Specific circumstances require a higher dose.

Question for you all:

To gain the max benefits from the mr. Happy stack, do you recommend coingestion of Mg and zinc in the morning at the same time I dose uridine, fish oil, agpc, and b complex?

I ask because I take chelated Mg and zinc methionine at night before I go to sleep, as a part of my established regimen. I know that zinc isn't really stored in the body, so I'm wondering if zinc in the morning with the stack will max benefits. I am getting good benefits already wih just the uridine stack and leaving mg and zinc at night.

Mg and zinc tend to induce sleep nicely, so I'd prefer to keep them before bed. Also the zinc methionine (30 mg) + copper (15 mcg) supplement I take gives me a weird flushy head feeling that interferes with studying, so better right before bed.

You're pretty much on track. One thing that I'll mention (and you may already know) - copper and zinc are antagonistic to each other, so balancing them is key. Taking them at separate times may be helpful, too.

Hmm... I wonder if this is where my low serotonin feeling comes from when mixing this stack w/ CILTEP? Perhaps I am depleting tyrosine and tryptophan in my body? I found Tryptophan reverses the bad after effects of the mix very rapidly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/pubmed/31297

Added to a striatal synaptosomal homogenate of rat brain, CDP-choline 10(-4) M inhibits the uptake of norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5 HT) in a competitive fashion and enhances the uptake of tyrosine and tryptophan;

Also..

CDPcholine decreases the level of serotonin and tryptophan and the synthesis rate of serotonin in the midbrain + hypothalamus and in the brain stem.

Dopamine and serotonin are like see-saws. If you push one up, the other goes down. Mostly that balances up again within the first 2 weeks, as a single stack. Layering it with CILTEP may requiring a little fine-tuning and juggling. Dose timing may be a factor.

[Potent]

You're pretty much on track. One thing that I'll mention (and you may already know) - copper and zinc are antagonistic to each other, so balancing them is key. Taking them at separate times may be helpful, too.

Thanks for taking the time to respond mrhappy. So do you think leavin Mg and Zinc at night, not dosed concurrently with uridine in the morning is ok? I'm gonna assume since you take the beracca supp that you would optimally recommend taking Mg and zinc in the morning with the uridine. I guess I just need to try and see how I feel.

This stack has been excellent for mood stabilization. Thank you.

[czarnykokos]

I just tried free supposedly UMP sent by smartpowders as a recompense for receiving base uridine instead of UMP last time I ordered from them.
I am not saying it is not UMP this time - I just would like to notice that the powder has exactly the same floury clumpy consistence, exactly the same bitter taste and causes the same brain fog like base uridine I tested = i am throwing it out right now.

Edited by czarnykokos, 14 November 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[typ3z3r0]

The consistency of mine is the same, and I have experienced brain fog for the two days I've been using it. This is a shame. I was really looking forward to using UMP.

Edited by typ3z3r0, 14 November 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Adaptogen]

This is the new COA for the "UMP"... while the product name is Ump uridine, the CAS# on it corresponds to base uridine
http://oi42.tinypic.com/1rydjs.jpg

[Raza]

Question. I just learned in my genetics course that most errors in DNA/RNA transcription happen because of isomers of nucleotides/bases that are available in the cellular fluid; that this is the one problem our enzymes can't error-check for.

Uridine is one of the nucleotides that goes into RNA, and transcription errors are majorly undesirable. Does anyone have any useful insights as to the isomer purity of uridine in commercially available supplements?

Edited by Raza, 15 November 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[mrd1]

I have been taking high doses of 750 mg Uridine, 2g DHA, and 2g Alpha GPC for a few days now. And, I feel great. Kinda drowsy. But, I don't know beautiful. I just feel so blessed. And you know what I may feel kinda slow and tired. But, its more meditative. Like I just am taking my time breathing in how happy I am to be here right now.

Obviously, this is to soon to draw any meaningful conclusions and any conclusions from me my population of 1 will be to tiny to generalize to larger populations.

However, my case is heavily confounded by
noopept 127 mg
sunifiram 15 mg
clenbuterol 50mg
clomid 25 mg
adderall 55 mg
stattera 80mg
lithium carbonate 750mg
tenex 2mg
effexor 150mg
aniracetam 1150 mg
Lions mane 2000mg

Also intensive environmental intervention like
great sleep
great nutrition
meditation 15 min 2-4x a day
weightlifting like a hour a day
walking
skin baths/peels
great friends
great school performance
great music
great comedy
great books
great lectures
yoga
foam rollers
bright light therapy


Cheers well... ima gooo now I got to cuddle my pillow and get told a beddie bye story by my friend shes sooo nice. Then listen to some paramore till I fall asleep. GOod luck peoples!!! ))) ahhh

[Rush23]

Is it possible to take ump alone in the morning with vitamins and eggs while supplementing 900 mg of DHA at night? The combination of uridine and DHA causes significant hypotension, brain fog and anxiety if taken together in the morning. I know for a fact it's the DHA, since in the past anything >500 mg gives me that affect. Would dosing the UMP and DHA 12 hours apart reduce the efficacy of this stack mr. Happy?

Edited by Rush23, 20 November 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[mrd1]

Could it be that the extra pills from fish oil make you feel sick. Happens to me if I try to take a bunch of fishoil after my morning supplements but it has nothing to do with the actual things in fish and rather just the sear volume ontop of everything else.

[Rush23]

I tried fish oil originally and switched to algae based dha which gave me the same problem. I have been taking DHA for a while now. Anything over 500 mg of dha per day gives me that problem. I rather not have uridine potentiate the vasodilation and thus hypotension effect of DHA. So I want to space out the dosing individually.

[ken_shiro]

My experience:


ecological formula ump: (2x300mg)/day +
max dha jarrow formulas: 2 softgels/day +
citicoline: 2x100mg/day
works fine.




Adding:
noopept (40mg/d) OR pramiracetam (2x200mg/d, low dosage) OR sunifiram (2x5mg/d) +

l-tyrosine(2x 300-500mg/d)+

l-phenylalanine(2x 300-500mg/d)+

l-theanine (3x400mg/d) +

alpha gpc(3x300mg/d) OR centrophenoxine (2-3 x 200mg/d) +

oxiracetam (2x150mg/d, low dosage),

works enough fine, sometimes I have a little headache, too nootropics/supplements.

l-theanine is good to avoid the headache.

Edited by ken_shiro, 23 November 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Knowbody]

Question. I just learned in my genetics course that most errors in DNA/RNA transcription happen because of isomers of nucleotides/bases that are available in the cellular fluid; that this is the one problem our enzymes can't error-check for.

Uridine is one of the nucleotides that goes into RNA, and transcription errors are majorly undesirable. Does anyone have any useful insights as to the isomer purity of uridine in commercially available supplements?

Any thoughts on this?

Not all isomers seem to be bad: http://en.wikipedia....i/Pseudouridine

Pseudouridine (abbreviated by the Greek letter psi- Ψ) is the C-glycoside isomer of the nucleoside uridine, and it is the most prevalent of the over one hundred different modified nucleosides found in RNA.^[1] Ψ is found in all species and in many classes of RNA except mRNA.^[2][3] Ψ is formed by enzymes called Ψ synthases, which post-transcriptionally isomerize specific uridine residues in RNA in a process termed pseudouridylation.^[4]
It is commonly found in tRNA, associated with thymidine and cytosine in the TΨC arm and is one of the invariant regions of tRNA.The function of it is not very clear, but it is expected to play a role in association with aminoacyl transferases during their interaction with tRNA, and hence in the initiation of translation. Recent studies suggest it may offer protection from radiation.^[5]

Pseudouridine is biosynthesized from uridine via the action of Ψ synthases.




I'm no chemist. Are more Uridine isomers possible? If so, I share the worries Raza has.

Edited by Knowbody, 24 November 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[mrd1]

I do not think we will all die because a green tea has a class of chemicals called xanthanines which are created from guanine and although many exist in coffees and teas we don't seem to grow a third arm.

Also, the role of a chemical in the body is vastly different from when you consume it. For example if I have a few grams of phenylalanine I would cause a dangerous conversion to l dopa to dopamine then have a schizophrenic break from reality.

However, this is just my guess I am no chemist.

[chemicalambrosia]

Another report on Superior Nutraceuticals: I was close to running out of uridine UMP, so I ordered some from Superior Nutraceuticals. I probably should have done this a little earlier, but I ended up running out. At the time I was thinking "I should have had this some time ago by now" I was sent an email by them saying:
"We had an unexpected back order on this item.
We'll be sending you two units for the delay."

That means I got a free tub of uridine at 25 grams, a $40 value. It took over three weeks total from order until delivery, but IMO this is still pretty amazing customer service. Same quality uridine as far as I can tell. If like me you don't want to run out you might want to remember to order a little early though...

[MrHappy]

Question. I just learned in my genetics course that most errors in DNA/RNA transcription happen because of isomers of nucleotides/bases that are available in the cellular fluid; that this is the one problem our enzymes can't error-check for.

Uridine is one of the nucleotides that goes into RNA, and transcription errors are majorly undesirable. Does anyone have any useful insights as to the isomer purity of uridine in commercially available supplements?

The potential DNA transcription errors we discussed earlier revolved around B vitamin deficiencies (see the sticky in post 1) as a requirement for this to be possible for pharmaceutical-grade uridine. Isomer purity would depend on the vendor, however various isomers of uridine are also regularly found within normal bodily functions. I don't believe that the mere presence of a related isomer immediately equates to it being incorrectly incorporated into the strand, however there are definitely circumstances when this will occur, typically with an absence of eg. thymine.

However, if it gives you any peace of mind, I've just watched (some of, anyway) 15 months of rapid DNA transcription, from a single cell to a 6 month old baby, in an artificially uridine-rich environment, without any issues presented. I can't think of a more demanding stage of life for cellular growth vs available 'materials.'

[Knowbody]

..... I've just watched (some of, anyway) 15 months of rapid DNA transcription, from a single cell to a 6 month old baby, in an artificially uridine-rich environment, without any issues presented. I can't think of a more demanding stage of life for cellular growth vs available 'materials.'

Hmm, I now see that uridine is added to baby formula. I suppose I can safely continue supplementation :-)

Thanks!

[Jackhill41]

Can Mr. Happy or anyone who has tried this stack comment on whether cycling- specifically, the uridine element of the stack- is advisable? I have read this monster thread in bits and pieces over the course of last month, and (I think) I have read every page, but other than a couple of posters on bottom of p. 71 and top of p. 72 ( http://www.longecity.../page__st__2130) speaking favorably of regular supplementation with uridine, the subject doesn't seem to have been discussed. Any comments on the subject would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Hebbeh]

I've been using UMP non-stop for a full 2 years with no lessening of efficacy and see no reason for cycling. It is one of a very small handful of must have supplements in my ever evolving stack.

[chemicalambrosia]

I agree with Hebbeh. I've "cycled" it by accident when I've ran out, and missed it quite a bit. Taking a break didn't increase effects or anything, it just deprived me of the positive effects I could have had while taking it. No cycling here.

[Jacob Norris]

So what choline source is most recommended for this uridine stack?

Choline-CDP
-or-
Alpha GPC???

[Jacob Norris]

Also, would Krill Oil be a better alternative to fish oil with the uridine stack?

[MrHappy]

Also, would Krill Oil be a better alternative to fish oil with the uridine stack?

Personal choice on the choline and omega-3s. Just aim for >500mg of DHA /day.