2844 replies to this topic

[Strangelove]

Was using the UMP from nootropicsdepot for 3 weeks now. Twice daily and my mucosa got burned, guess there really are some unwanted fillers in their batch..

 

When taking the UMP 5-10 mins after my fish oil I got headaches over night now.

Hopefully that's a sign for neural regrowth

 

Do you have the "chemical smelling batch" we discussed before? I did not have such issue, but I am using a small dose.

[LexLux]

Great thread guys I have 4 questions -

 

1) Cost effective Source of DHA?

 

• Im wondering what kind of fish oil you guys are using. So far I've only found Now DHA-500 as a cost effective fish oil. It seems to be enteric coated, not sure if thats an issue? The now DHA 500 would contain 500mg DHA per capsule and 250mg EPA, the price per bottle of 180 is £25.00. So my serving would be 2 capsules which brings the price per serving to about £.28
• I've been using vegan Opti-3 algae EPA DHA which provides 250mg DHA and 125mg EPA per capsule. Price per bottle of 60 is £17.00, but they have 3 for 2 deal which comes to £11.25 each. Serving size would be 3 capsules which brings the price per serving to £.85 and £.56, for a bottle and for the 3 for 2 deal respectively.

2) Are you guys concerned about the risk of prostate cancer related to elevated DHA? Anyone know how much DHA one can take before this becomes an issue?

 

3) Inositol as a choline replacement? If so how much?

 

I'm a little bit concerned about choline supplementation because of the TMAO research. Can we be sure that TMAO from excessive choline won't contibute to heart disease, cancer and inflammatory diseases like arthritis?

 

4) Are you having good results with jarrow UMP?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited by LexLux, 29 April 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[celebes]

Jarrow UMP is much better than Superior Nutra's in my experience.

[Jeoshua]

If you're not eating the inositol on an empty stomach, and with a choline rich food like egg yolks or something, then it could be a low grade form of choline replacement only in so much as it does deliver free choline, and inositol could be used to increase the absorption of choline from that food.

In theory, anyway.

Edited by Jeoshua, 29 April 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[Shinsou]

 

Was using the UMP from nootropicsdepot for 3 weeks now. Twice daily and my mucosa got burned, guess there really are some unwanted fillers in their batch..

 

When taking the UMP 5-10 mins after my fish oil I got headaches over night now.

Hopefully that's a sign for neural regrowth

 

Do you have the "chemical smelling batch" we discussed before? I did not have such issue, but I am using a small dose.

 

 

Yep it kinda smells that way... was holding it for like 20 mins under the tongue.

[pbandy1]

Great thread guys I have 4 questions -

 

1) Cost effective Source of DHA?

 

• Im wondering what kind of fish oil you guys are using. So far I've only found Now DHA-500 as a cost effective fish oil. It seems to be enteric coated, not sure if thats an issue? The now DHA 500 would contain 500mg DHA per capsule and 250mg EPA, the price per bottle of 180 is £25.00. So my serving would be 2 capsules which brings the price per serving to about £.28
• I've been using vegan Opti-3 algae EPA DHA which provides 250mg DHA and 125mg EPA per capsule. Price per bottle of 60 is £17.00, but they have 3 for 2 deal which comes to £11.25 each. Serving size would be 3 capsules which brings the price per serving to £.85 and £.56, for a bottle and for the 3 for 2 deal respectively.

2) Are you guys concerned about the risk of prostate cancer related to elevated DHA? Anyone know how much DHA one can take before this becomes an issue?

 

3) Inositol as a choline replacement? If so how much?

 

I'm a little bit concerned about choline supplementation because of the TMAO research. Can we be sure that TMAO from excessive choline won't contibute to heart disease, cancer and inflammatory diseases like arthritis?

 

4) Are you having good results with jarrow UMP?

 

Thanks in advance!

for your first question, I feel like Flameout by Biotest is one of the best fish oils out there. Very cost effective, significant amounts of DHA, free shipping as well.

[hephaestus]

 I contacted them about the ump smelling funny and they sent me a coa assuring it was 99.9% pure. I tried using about 80mg from that smelly batch I have and it tasted bad and left a weird feeling where it was under my tongue. It seems pretty obvious that this batch is different from the stuff jarrow and superior nutraceuticals are selling.

[Danny R]

 I've read the entire (I think) thread and I absolutely realize that this is all anecdotal and experimental, etc., but I would like ask a few questions to get me started with this protocol.

 

1. How much is too much folate in humans?
2. I'm going to start out with 150mg of UMP orally, twice daily (for a total of 300mg on the first day), but the doses I'm reading about are all over the place. If UMP taken sub lingual is 7-10x the potency of an oral dose, the people taking 250mg sub lingual is equivalent to an oral dose of somewhere between 1.75g and 2.5g, but in reading through 85 pages of posts, I don’t think I saw anyone taking even close to this amount orally. What gives? Is this just because every who reaches 1g orally just switches to either sub lingual administration or oral TAU doses?
3. How much did most of you increase your dose each day in order to find the right dose for you? 50mg per administration?

4. Is the recommendation (if I want to transition to sub lingual doses) to start out with 150mg orally, slowly building up until I achieve desired results, however long that takes, then divide that amount by 10 and stick it under my tongue until it dissolves? Or do I only need to try oral administration a few times to see if I tolerate it well, then I can move on to sub lingual doses and experiment with my dose under the tongue?

5. For the people who have tried both >700mg DHA and >3000mg ALA, are they equally effective?
6. Is it better for me to take any of the supplements at a specific time of day to increase the effectiveness of the UMP, or does it not really matter? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a few pages back that people were taking the Vit E and the fish oil on an empty stomach, 30 minutes prior to the UMP, but fat solubles taken without food aren't going to be as bioavailable, right?

 

Thanks for the help and the extensive logging and tracking.

Edited by Danny R, 03 May 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

Uridine supplementation had some benefits on motivation but it mellowed me out and drained the energy I'd normally have in the afternoons. Any amount of CDP choline makes me depressed, the conversion of Uridine to CDP might have been causing the mood issues. I was taking a fish oil with a 3:1 ratio EHA to DHA and no choline.

 

I'm going to give this another attempt with a high DHA fish oil and alpha GPC choline. If GPC has the same effect as CDP i'll change to ALCAR. When the components arrive in the mail I'll update.

 

I'm an undermethylator, probably choline dominant in neurotransmitter balances. 

[toban]

Hello! Wondering if you have any opinion about taking Cordyceps sinensis with this stack. I know that Cordyceps raises cAMP, and if that could lead to depression symptoms like anecdotes with the CILTEP-stack. 

[Jeoshua]

I think the depressive tendency of Happy's Stack + CILTEP has more to do with increased dopaminergic and cholinergic signaling both reducing Serotonin over long periods of time. The jury may still be out on the exact mechanism of antidepressants and the neurotransmitter balance stuff, but take it from someone who has totally depleted their serotonin levels from high levels of dopaminergic drugs (MDMA) before, it's a real thing. Easily fixed with 5-HTP, too.

[Danny R]

I ordered my UMP from Nootropics Depot, and since there have been a number of questions about their product, I thought I would share my experience. I ordered mine this past week and it arrived 2 days later (this has been the case with all 3 orders of products I have ordered from them in the past few weeks). The UMP I got was not listed as disodium salts on their web site, so while I was waiting for it to arrive, I emailed them and got a response back within 10 minutes that all of their UMP currently is disodium salt. The stuff in my jar looks like very tiny crystals (as described in some previous posts about UMP disodium salts), and it is very dense (it only takes a very little bit volume-wise to hit 200mg compared to say L-Theanine). I tasted a little bit of it and it tasted slightly salty.

 

 

 

Edit: I re-read some of the posts around page 25 or so an I think I understand now how to find an optimal dose for me, but I wanted to leave my impressions of ND. Also, for those of you who read my questions before I edited them, my plan is to get to oral 250mg max in the morning, and another oral 250mg in the afternoon for 10 to 14 days, and if I don't feel anything noticeable, try upping the dose or switching to sub lingual administrations.

 

Edited by Danny R, 04 May 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[ergopharaoh]

Jarrow UMP is much better than Superior Nutra's in my experience.

 

Can anyone else verify? Jarrow UMP is a lot cheaper than superior Nutraceuticals...

[YimYam]

Anyone found a good price for UMP in the UK? Cheapest I've found is £32 from ebay...seems very pricey. 

Edited by jdmc123, 09 May 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[uekte]

Anyone found a good price for UMP in the UK? Cheapest I've found is £32 from ebay...seems very pricey. 

 

£32 for how much UMP?

 

Jarrow UMP (250mg Capsules) x60 is £17.92 on Amazon.co.uk with free delivery.

[YimYam]

 

Anyone found a good price for UMP in the UK? Cheapest I've found is £32 from ebay...seems very pricey. 

 

£32 for how much UMP?

 

Jarrow UMP (250mg Capsules) x60 is £17.92 on Amazon.co.uk with free delivery.

 

 

 

£32 for 60 capsules. 

 

You are correct about the amazon pricing, but it takes 7-23 days to deliver to the UK as the seller sends it from the US, I presume it will take about 2 weeks and also there are quite alot of unhappy customers.

 

Anyway, I want it asap so it seems my only two choices are £32 from Ebay for 60 caps or £50 from for 50 grams from ebay... bummer.

 

If anyone has any cheaper sources in the UK for UMP, please do let me know. I think once I've trialed  the sup to see if it works for me, i'll buy the 50 gram one. 

[YimYam]

If anyone is interested (from the UK) in splitting the 50g Uridine cost/supplement that would be super. It would be weighed on a very accurate digital scales and we'd obviously communicate beforehand to verify one another. I'd like to buy it asap. 

 

Best,

Jamie

[Phoenicis]

Hi, a very trusted source has drawn my attention the possibility that chromic uridine use stimulates dopamine receptors similar to cocaine and thus may depress their number. What you guys think?

 

Chronic uridine treatment reduces the level of [³H]spiperone-labelled dopamine receptors and enhances their turnover rate in striatum of young rats: relationship to dopamine-dependent behaviours

 

The effect was studied of chronic uridine treatment on the recovery of striatal D-2 dopamine (DA) receptors after their irreversible blockade by N-ethoxycarbonyl-2-ethoxy-1,2-dihydroquinoline (EEDQ) in young (40 days old) and adult (14 months old) male rats using [3H]spiperone as radioligand. Chronic uridine treatment (15 mg kg-1 day-1, i.p., 14 days) causes a reduction of [3H]spiperone binding sites in striatum of young rats. This treatment also produces an increase in the rate of recovery of striatal [3H]spiperone-labelled DA receptors in young, but not in adult rats. Catalepsy and exploratory locomotor activity, two behaviours associated with blockade versus activation of DA receptors, were evaluated in the same rats. The behavioural recovery from the EEDC^induced syndrome is more rapid in the young rats treated with uridine than in the saline-treated group. The behavioural recovery in old rats was not affected by chronic uridine treatment. Thus, in young rats the pyrimidine nucleoside uridine may modulate the steady state and the turnover rate of striatal D-2 DA receptors.

[dudmuck]

For dopaminergic action of uridine, you might refer to this old thread http://www.longecity...eceptors/page-2

Specifically, this document http://www.ninds.nih...ine dossier.pdf, which i think is same as the one you link to says "increased the rate of recovery of striatal

spiperone-labeled dopamine receptors in young but not old rats in a process attributed to

modulation of the steady state and turnover of dopamine D2 receptors"

[Neal Cullum]

If anyone is interested (from the UK) in splitting the 50g Uridine cost/supplement that would be super. It would be weighed on a very accurate digital scales and we'd obviously communicate beforehand to verify one another. I'd like to buy it asap. 

 

Best,

Jamie

 

Here's a link for 20g of uridine:- https://www.intellim.../uridine-powder

 

It's U.K based and they're a good company to order from as i've had no problems ordering from them in the past. Only thing is, this uridine doesn't say which type it is so it might be worth contcting them.

[YimYam]

 

If anyone is interested (from the UK) in splitting the 50g Uridine cost/supplement that would be super. It would be weighed on a very accurate digital scales and we'd obviously communicate beforehand to verify one another. I'd like to buy it asap. 

 

Best,

Jamie

 

Here's a link for 20g of uridine:- https://www.intellim.../uridine-powder

 

It's U.K based and they're a good company to order from as i've had no problems ordering from them in the past. Only thing is, this uridine doesn't say which type it is so it might be worth contcting them.

 

Great find, thanks. Can you verify its good quality and Uridine Monophosphate? 

 

Also there is absolutely no description on the product, which is a little odd.

 

Thanks

[qlawi90]

How much mg are you guys using in your daily dosage? Im using it with choline and fish oil for more then 8 weeks but didn't feel any cognitive enchancement. Im using it daily in the morning at 300-350mg

Edited by qlawi90, 17 May 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[freepie]

 

Did you make a thread about your daughter? If yes, can you give the url?

 

I hope you and your wife also attempt minimizing the indoctrination of gender expectations in her to maximize her potential, though that's hard because she is/will be not just exposed to you but society/media as well.

 

I don't understand?  I don't have a daughter but nieces, what are the gender expectations to maximize potential?  I take the uridine stack only as needed to modulate dopamine.

 

 

 

 

You misread me. First of all, I was addressing Mr. Happy. Secondly, cultural indoctrination of gender roles limits the interests and abilities of individuals.

[dudmuck]

How much mg are you guys using in your daily dosage? Im using it with choline and fish oil for more then 8 weeks but didn't feel any cognitive enchancement. Im using it daily in the morning at 300-350mg

 

Fish oil with higher DHA than EPA is part of this stack.  Absorption depends on taking it with meat, but most protein should aid bioavailability of fish oil.  A small amount of vitamin-E is a cofactor.  A good DHA will include E.

 

Swallowing UMP in a capsule seems like a waste of money.  Absorption of UMP is much improved sublingually, but seems to me taking more than 300mg at a time becomes difficult with all that salty taste in my mouth.

 

B vitamins are also a cofactor, as well as everything else in a good diet.

[Godof Smallthings]

How much mg are you guys using in your daily dosage? Im using it with choline and fish oil for more then 8 weeks but didn't feel any cognitive enchancement. Im using it daily in the morning at 300-350mg

 

Some things I would check:

 

1. Split into your 350 mg UMP into 2 doses (morning, lunch) and take them sublingually instead of orally.

2. Have you checked the DHA to EPA ratio of your fish oil? The DHA should be higher.

3. Do you take enough vitamins and minerals, notably B-vitamins, Vitamin C, zinc, magnesium to support the processes the uridine is supposed to affect?

4. What is your diet like?
 

I take either 250 mg of uridine orally, twice daily (morning lunch) or split the contents of one 250 mg cap into three sublingual doses throughout the day. I have not started to add any choline yet. I also take zinc chelate, magnesium citrate, very small amounts of lithium orotate and resistant starch. Have been taking UMP for nearly two weeks. Some days have been great, others normal, and a couple not so good. There is no consistency or obvious overall effect yet.

 

Strangely, when I drink a cup of coffee on this stack, unlike what others have reported, I seem to enjoy it more than usual. Maybe that is just the effect of having lowered my caffeine intake and then getting some while my body still suffers from caffeine withdrawal?

[Danny R]

 

I take either 250 mg of uridine orally, twice daily (morning lunch) or split the contents of one 250 mg cap into three sublingual doses throughout the day.

 

Do you notice a big difference between the days you take 250mg BiD orally and taking the one 250mg cap over 3 sub lingual doses? The reason I ask is because I am trying to understand how people make the jump from oral to sub lingual doses, and if my math is correct, according to the general consensus that UMP taken sub lingually is 6-7x more potent than when taken orally, it seems like some people are taking very large (equivalent) doses. So when you're taking it orally, you're taking 500mg or UMP daily, but when you take it sub lingually, you are taking the equivalent of 1500mg to 1750mg daily.

[Godof Smallthings]

To be honest, no, the difference is not huge. Actually my best days so far have been when I took the capsules orally. But that ends up quite a bit more expensive.

[Strangelove]

I am very dissapointed with all my efforts so far to increase dopamine neurotrasnsmission long term. Having read a large number of posts in different forums for many years, I have never read any report with anyone getting a good increase in motivation/drive and reduction in anhedonia long term. There is no way to strategically hijack the dopamine homeostatic mechanisms in the brain? 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2755466/

 

I got an overview of mechanisms involved from this article, but no ideas of what to do with this practically.

Edited by Strangelove, 21 May 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[Arjuna]

Strangelove, try NMDA antagonists, they up regulate dopamine receptors. A lot of ADHD amphetamine users use them to keep their meds from developing tolerance. I get good effects on dopamine homeostasis with magnesium and zinc.

[nootrop1097]

hi guys does any one know if this nootropic stack would still work if you take the traditional fishoil (EPA) 360mg : (DHA) 240mg (1.5EPA :1DHA).