2844 replies to this topic

[Hebbeh]

I have much better subjective results from 250 mg sublingual UMP compared to 100 mg TAU.

[user1]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

Actually they are working on a more bioavailable form of uridine. They can patent that.

Actually, I don't think it can be much more bioavailable than regular uridine under the tongue...I've been using 250-300mg uridine dissolved under the tongue twice a day for the last 9 days with impressive results...a very noticeable increase in mental energy (which I've been lacking for a long time) and more productivity. It took 5 or 6 days to kick in. I did double dose a couple times the last couple days and that is probably over kill as now I've developed very noticeable tinnitus today...the only other time I had tinnitus like this was about 6-8 months ago when taking very high dose Astragalus extract + high dose Astragalus root powder. From my research at that time, the tinnitus could have been due to nerve regrowth. I ended up stopping the Astragalus due to other issues.

Noticing the tinnitus myself, especially if I'm reminded of it (like when reading this thread). Just started 250 mg CDP-choline and 300 mg uridine (P.0., not S.L., so far). I've been taking DHA/EPA and M.B. for some time. Also noticed improved balance. I practice martial arts, and find multiple kicks in several directions from a one legged stance more stable.

Did you tinnitus resolve?

I seem to have developed it. I don't know if it's the uridine which has caused it.

[csrpj]

I have much better subjective results from 250 mg sublingual UMP compared to 100 mg TAU.

as a non-responder to TAU, i may end up giving UMP a try. so UMP gives you a feel that TAU doesn't, even when increasing the TAU dosage?

since UMP powder is expensive given the risk that i may find it ineffective and effectively pay 50 bucks for one or two doses.... is anybody willing to mail me 300mg or a gram? (i'd pay them for the UMP, postage, and time)

[Blankspace]

My experiences with both uridine (25mg TAU once per day) and cytidine (250mg cdp-choline once per day) have been quite negative. After about 1 week of use it caused internal hemorrhoids and bloody stools. It took about two weeks for all of negative symptoms to resolve.

The uridine and cdp-choline were taken months apart so there was no interaction between the two.
The only other supplement being used at this time was fish oil (900mg omega-3; once per day).

[MrHappy]

Sounds like you may actually have a different issue, such as a wheat/gluten allergy or a candida infection, possibly accelerated by increasing the mitochondrial efficiency of your candida.

Being vegetarian, candida / yeast infections are not uncommon. Antibiotics may clear that up, but I've also had previous success by drinking a shot of apple cider vinegar in juice (for taste) morning and night for a week or so. $3 at the supermarket. Tastes a bit <blargh>.

[Hebbeh]

The big pharma's cant make $$$$ off uridine so they have no interest in nonpatentable supps. They need to discover unique patentable drugs to rake in the profit.

Actually they are working on a more bioavailable form of uridine. They can patent that.

Actually, I don't think it can be much more bioavailable than regular uridine under the tongue...I've been using 250-300mg uridine dissolved under the tongue twice a day for the last 9 days with impressive results...a very noticeable increase in mental energy (which I've been lacking for a long time) and more productivity. It took 5 or 6 days to kick in. I did double dose a couple times the last couple days and that is probably over kill as now I've developed very noticeable tinnitus today...the only other time I had tinnitus like this was about 6-8 months ago when taking very high dose Astragalus extract + high dose Astragalus root powder. From my research at that time, the tinnitus could have been due to nerve regrowth. I ended up stopping the Astragalus due to other issues.

Noticing the tinnitus myself, especially if I'm reminded of it (like when reading this thread). Just started 250 mg CDP-choline and 300 mg uridine (P.0., not S.L., so far). I've been taking DHA/EPA and M.B. for some time. Also noticed improved balance. I practice martial arts, and find multiple kicks in several directions from a one legged stance more stable.

Did you tinnitus resolve?

I seem to have developed it. I don't know if it's the uridine which has caused it.

The tinnitus "seems" to be lessened but not gone...but perhaps I've just become accustomed to it as "normal" and as such, is less noticeable.

[Hebbeh]

I have much better subjective results from 250 mg sublingual UMP compared to 100 mg TAU.

as a non-responder to TAU, i may end up giving UMP a try. so UMP gives you a feel that TAU doesn't, even when increasing the TAU dosage?

since UMP powder is expensive given the risk that i may find it ineffective and effectively pay 50 bucks for one or two doses.... is anybody willing to mail me 300mg or a gram? (i'd pay them for the UMP, postage, and time)

Sublingual UMP I can "feel" working within minutes while the TAU doesn't have the obvious effect of immediate mental clarity. UMP is cheap...cheaper than TAU. 25 grams (100 250mg doses) for $45...that's 45 cents per dose or per day! I just bought 250 grams for $250...that's 1000 doses...or enough for 2.7 years at 25 cents per day! And I wouldn't have thrown out $250 for that quantity if it hadn't been such a positive experience for me. But I started with 3 month supply for $45 to see what it could do...and now I don't want to be without it and risk returning to my previous mental "fog". Cheap benefit to cost ratio compared to most supps for me.

http://www.superiorn...tegory_Code=COG

[MrHappy]

Tinnitus - not enough zinc, b1,2,3 vs b12. Check your multi's ratio.

[nito]

wow just maanged getting off my back and started to exercise for the very first time in a very long time. Did 15 minutes and cardio and some weightlifting. My heart rate was at 195 throughout :o as i was running quite fast. Damn i'm so out of shape, my brothers heart rate was like 135-150 throughout.

[csrpj]

wow just maanged getting off my back and started to exercise for the very first time in a very long time. Did 15 minutes and cardio and some weightlifting. My heart rate was at 195 throughout :o as i was running quite fast. Damn i'm so out of shape, my brothers heart rate was like 135-150 throughout.

nito, have you considered what posts like these contribute to these threads? ...just saying.

[user1]

Tinnitus - not enough zinc, b1,2,3 vs b12. Check your multi's ratio.

Zinc is 15mg.

B1 5mg
B2 7.5mg
B3 12.5mg
B12 12.5ug

I'm going to stop uridine for now. Hopefully this tinnitus will stop sometime soon.

[nito]

wow just maanged getting off my back and started to exercise for the very first time in a very long time. Did 15 minutes and cardio and some weightlifting. My heart rate was at 195 throughout :o as i was running quite fast. Damn i'm so out of shape, my brothers heart rate was like 135-150 throughout.

nito, have you considered what posts like these contribute to these threads? ...just saying.

It's more of a reference to mr happy of an earlier conversation we had in the same thread regarding some exercise that could perhaps help me stop smoking thereby increase my chance of being a respondent of this uridine combo. For those who did not see those exchanges, i can understand the confusion. I'll try to keep it more in topic.

[MrHappy]

User1 - exercise / bloodflow also helps.

[user1]

Alright thanks.

Tinnitus is quite inconvenient right now...

It may be an extension of my HPPD. A lot of people who have HPPD also have tinnitus it seems.

[MrHappy]

http://psycnet.apa.o...s/pha/16/3/199/

Database: PsycARTICLES
[ Journal Article ]
Triacetyluridine (TAU) decreases depressive symptoms and increases brain pH in bipolar patients.
Jensen, J. Eric;Daniels, Melissa;Haws, Charlotte;Bolo, Nicolas R.;Lyoo, In Kyoon;Yoon, Sujung J.;Cohen, Bruce M.;Stoll, Andrew L.;Rusche, James R.;Renshaw, Perry F.
Experimental and Clinical Psychopharmacology, Vol 16(3), Jun 2008, 199-206. doi: 10.1037/1064-1297.16.3.199
Abstract
Eleven patients with bipolar depression were given doses of up to 18 g per day of triacetyluridine (TAU) over 6 weeks to test the effect of uridine on symptoms of depression via Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS; Asberg, Montgomery, Perris, Schalling, & Sedvall, 1978) scores and on cellular bioenergetics using phosphorus magnetic resonance spectroscopic imaging (³¹P-MRSI). All patients and comparison participants (n = 9) completed baseline ³¹P-MRSI scans, and 9 patients completed posttherapy scans. The percentage changes for MADRS scores (Week 2, -23.8; Week 3, -34.9; Week 4, -42.5) and the time effects of TAU on MADRS scores (Week 2, z = -2.07, p = .039; Week 3, z = -4.28, p < .001; Week 4, z = -4.54, p < .001) may reflect TAU effects on early symptom improvement. TAU responders (patients who had a 50% or greater reduction in MADRS scores from baseline at any time) demonstrated a significant difference from nonresponders in pH changes from baseline (effect size = 150). These results suggest that TAU treatment may decrease symptoms of depression and improve mitochondrial functioning. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

[trismatic]

Did you tinnitus resolve?

I seem to have developed it. I don't know if it's the uridine which has caused it.

Wow this scared the heck out of me. I seem to have developed a tinnitus aswell. Can't concentrate on anything right now, unless it's auditory and blocks the tinnitus.

Seems funny, as this is the only effect I notice from uridine, except for the first time when I got a small euphoria. Just like piracetam. Useless for me.

[MrHappy]

Pretty much any change in the nervous system can lead to temporary tinnitus / auditory decoupling. I had tinnitus around the time I started methylene blue, originally.

It's not permanent and you can hasten the transition.

[csrpj]

anyone else besides hebbeh find UMP very effective while not responding to TAU?

i'm reluctant to spend $50 when the chances that i find myself to be a non-responder to it. i'm trying to access these chances, based on how likely it is for me to respond to UMP given i don't - in any obvious way, at least - to TAU.

here's a thought to those who own UMP...... send me a gram, enough to trial it. i'll paypal you (the cost of the gram for you + shipping) * 2

Edited by csrpj, 15 March 2012 - 07:34 AM.

[Reformed-Redan]

MrHappy, does the uridine combo increase dopamine neuronal density? Or how is it? And what do you take with flaxseed oil to make sure it mostly gets converted to the goodies? B-complex?

[JChief]

http://psycnet.apa.o...s/pha/16/3/199/

Database: PsycARTICLES
[ Journal Article ]
Triacetyluridine (TAU) decreases depressive symptoms and increases brain pH in bipolar patients.
Jensen, J. Eric;Daniels, Melissa;Haws, Charlotte;Bolo, Nicolas R.;Lyoo, In Kyoon;Yoon, Sujung J.;Cohen, Bruce M.;Stoll, Andrew L.;Rusche, James R.;Renshaw, Perry F.
Experimental and Clinical Psychopharmacology, Vol 16(3), Jun 2008, 199-206. doi: 10.1037/1064-1297.16.3.199
Abstract
Eleven patients with bipolar depression were given doses of up to 18 g per day of triacetyluridine (TAU) over 6 weeks to test the effect of uridine on symptoms of depression via Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS; Asberg, Montgomery, Perris, Schalling, & Sedvall, 1978) scores and on cellular bioenergetics using phosphorus magnetic resonance spectroscopic imaging (³¹P-MRSI). All patients and comparison participants (n = 9) completed baseline ³¹P-MRSI scans, and 9 patients completed posttherapy scans. The percentage changes for MADRS scores (Week 2, -23.8; Week 3, -34.9; Week 4, -42.5) and the time effects of TAU on MADRS scores (Week 2, z = -2.07, p = .039; Week 3, z = -4.28, p < .001; Week 4, z = -4.54, p < .001) may reflect TAU effects on early symptom improvement. TAU responders (patients who had a 50% or greater reduction in MADRS scores from baseline at any time) demonstrated a significant difference from nonresponders in pH changes from baseline (effect size = 150). These results suggest that TAU treatment may decrease symptoms of depression and improve mitochondrial functioning. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

TAU works so well for me. 100mg with food with fish oil starts working the magic within an hour. Just wanted to post a quick update. Piracetam, Noopept & Sulbutiamine aside - uridine and fish oil has been one of the best supplements I've tried and worked incredibly well for mood stabilization.

Edited by JChief, 16 March 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[MrHappy]

Csrpj - I've got a fair amount of UMP here (>1Kg) and could spare a couple of grams, I'm sure. Shipping from Australia might be prohibitive, but I can send you some suspicious white powder in the mail with no return address. PM me.

[MrHappy]

Redan - increased dopamine receptor densities, neurite and dendrite outgrowth, ie. synaptogenesis. Also restorative effects on neural lipid membranes, etc. Mitochondrial repair / enhancement.. and more.

ALA from flaxseed conversion is estimated to be around 20% on average.

The B-complex addition, folate in particular, is to aid DNA repair / methylation and prevent transcription errors.. and assist other functions.

So far, this has been *extremely* helpful for 5 of my elderly family and friends in reversing age-related cognitive decline. Has helped siblings with stress / sleep issues and brain fade. Big success on BPD for 3 friends, also.

Very. Impressed.

[X_Danny_X]

ALA converts to what???? it is a bad converter to omega 3s


i sometimes wonder if this is doing me any good. however, my typing increased, my thought process has increased and when im in tune, my speech as well because i do have a little studdering effect. though i have been taking other things such ALCAR, selegiline, ashwaghanda, Melotonin, Vitamin D,

I heard Vitamin K works really well with Vitamin D. What else can this combo do.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 17 March 2012 - 01:31 AM.

[MrHappy]

It's not a hugely efficient conversion process to DHA, EPA. There is some literature that suggests ALA is rather useful on its own, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/16989905/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2945683/

[choqueiro]

Hi.

After a long time trying Uridine UMP I can say that I´m a non responder. I tried it alone and with all the cofactors and I also tried a double dose a few times. In all the cases nothing. My depression, anxiety and brain fog still there.

Right now I´m not taking Uridine and I´m trying Rhodiola for the first time ("Arctic Root" from Swedish Herbal institute). At the moment no improve but I´m only been one week on it. Let´s hope it helps a little.

I´ve been reading the last posts in this thread. As owtsgmi said: " Maybe the uridine is doing its job (increasing membrane fluidity), but there isn't enough raw material to work with".

Also Mr Happy supports this theory: "Maybe the uridine-induced dopamine modulation isn't effective for you because you aren't synthesizing enough DA to be released by uridine supplementation".

The comment of matter_of_time: "this could definitely be true cause I benefit a lot from uridine and I was already supplementing tyrosine" gives credibility to this theory.

1) What do you think MrHappy if I try to add L-tyrosine??

2) It would be better try L-Tyrosine or N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine??

3) Adding L-glutamine also could be a good idea??

4) A stack with: Uridine UMP+ L-Tyrosine (or N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine) + L-Glutamine + Rhodiola could be harmful??


Thanks so much

[Justchill]

So.. I've picked up the uridine supplementation.
My basic stack is now piracetam + fish oil + idebenone + 250mg Uridine SL.
The weather is starting to get better here in Belgium and I must say, I really feel good on this regimen, sometimes like I was a teenager.
I also sleep better, I've noticed, deeper I think.

My sleep stack btw: 400mg magnesium, 2000mg Glycine + 1mg melatonin+niacin slow release. That stuff helps too.

The tinnitus issue scares me. I will continue to experiment uridine, but I will cycle it.

Cheers & have a great weekend!

[owtsgmi]

Hi.

After a long time trying Uridine UMP I can say that I´m a non responder. I tried it alone and with all the cofactors and I also tried a double dose a few times. In all the cases nothing. My depression, anxiety and brain fog still there.

Right now I´m not taking Uridine and I´m trying Rhodiola for the first time ("Arctic Root" from Swedish Herbal institute). At the moment no improve but I´m only been one week on it. Let´s hope it helps a little.

I´ve been reading the last posts in this thread. As owtsgmi said: " Maybe the uridine is doing its job (increasing membrane fluidity), but there isn't enough raw material to work with".

Also Mr Happy supports this theory: "Maybe the uridine-induced dopamine modulation isn't effective for you because you aren't synthesizing enough DA to be released by uridine supplementation".

The comment of matter_of_time: "this could definitely be true cause I benefit a lot from uridine and I was already supplementing tyrosine" gives credibility to this theory.

1) What do you think MrHappy if I try to add L-tyrosine??

2) It would be better try L-Tyrosine or N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine??

3) Adding L-glutamine also could be a good idea??

4) A stack with: Uridine UMP+ L-Tyrosine (or N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine) + L-Glutamine + Rhodiola could be harmful??


Thanks so much

Your proposed stack is basically what I take now with the addition of 800mg Piracetam x 2. Prior to UMP, I was supplementing with dopamine enhancers (started with L-Tyrosine) and was quite happy with the positive effects. But, soon after taking the UMP, I started feeling overstimulated. I tapered off and finally quit my dopamine supplement. I found I didn't need dopamine supplementation anymore to get good effects (I must have enough residual dopamine floating around I guess). In your case, you may need a dopamine boost. I would start with the L-Tyrosine. If you sense positive effects, then you probably are lacking dopamine. There are a bunch of choices in the dopamine enhancer arena you can make if the L-Tyrosine doesn't quite do it. Like I said, I started with L-Tyrosine and I think it is fairly safe.

Oh, and I've recently tried to stop the Rhodiola only to sink into a minor depressive state. I re-instated it to be back to my "normal" content self. 30 drops in the am does the trick for me.

[user1]

My tinnitus seems a little less, but has not fully resolved.

Edited by user1, 23 March 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Same here. Tinnitus seems a little less but not gone...however I've been dosing fairly high. 300-500 mg UMP sublingual and 100 mg TAU both in the morning. I dose the UMP usually around 300 mg but will take an extra dose before going out the door if short on sleep...which really helps. I suspect the tinnitus will subside if I reduced dose or cycled off....but I'm not ready to find out and risk the brain fog returning. Small price to pay for the huge improvement in mental function and feeling of well being.

[user1]

I stopped two weeks ago...

Will update in another couple of weeks.