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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#91 chrono

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:42 PM

To think of new options for cognitive problems, it is necessary to make assumptions. This is because there is so little amount facts in this field. Even the best scientists in this field cannot give definite answers to consequences, right amounts, methods of action, co-effects, etc. about supplements and drugs. Of course, because it is such a complex subject.


Yes, this is exactly the point I'm trying to make, and try to make about pretty much everything we discuss here. This is why alarm bells should go off when people on forums make definite statements. And I'm not arguing about cognitive problems, but cancer risk. The possible consequences, and hence evidentiary requirements, are very different for those two categories.

I'm sure you'd agree that it's also necessary to examine assumptions, especially when they are not clearly articulated in the course of a line of reasoning.



However, probably most of us know that everything being 'recommended' here is somewhat experimental. This means that you should regard it with a healthy amount of sceptisism and do your own 'research' and thinking. Also, comparing multiple opinions is helpful in evaluating the risk and effectiveness of the drug/supplement.


Yes, this is the best way to approach what we discuss here. But it should be clear that there are also a large number of people who lack either the time, willingness or skill to perform the research necessary for a thorough understanding of these topics. Several have asked questions in this thread, and Mr. Happy has suggested this drug to many more in other threads. As for the value of opinions, I would be delighted if the available data rendered my concerns irrelevant, but regardless, I think my points about the tone and audience of such conversations are quite valid.

Given that this is one of two noots I can think of which is a confirmed carcinogen, I wanted to highlight the fact that there was very little discourse about this aspect, and no challenges to what I see as reasoning with some undeniable holes in it (though my examples above are of varying degrees of probable importance/relevance).

Edited by chrono, 13 November 2011 - 06:02 PM.


#92 MrHappy

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:29 PM

Well, I mentioned earlier in the thread that anyone concerned about it should stick to food sources.

Everything on this site is experimental - that's why we are here. Trying new things with the benefit of discussion/debate with intelligent people is much better than taking a shot in the dark yourself. :)

I think spirulina, at 5%, is pretty efficient. 5g = 250mg of uridine. The normal serving size is 3g, so looks like a really good source. Oddly enough, as a small child, I used to chew on spirulina like candy. Might explain some of my more useful gifts in life. :)
http://nutritiondata...products/2765/2

Tomatoes, while being a source of uridine, at .1%, are not a great source - they are typically 95% water, so the amount you'd have to eat is unrealistic. They are a good source of folate, but no B12.
http://nutritiondata...products/2682/2

Brewer's Yeast, is good at 3%, but I'm not comfortable ingesting 10g of yeast every day. Sounds like a yeast infection in the making. Perhaps if it was cooked/dead. High folate as well.
http://nutritiondata...products/5129/2

Lef has an isolated RNA supplement, which would be useful, but no B vitamins or supporting nutrients.

None of those nutrient data sheets mention uridine, which is pretty poor work for USDA supplied data. Here's some info:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uridine
http://www.pnas.org/.../10123.full.pdf

Again, I mention that the probability of being completely folate deficient outside the petri dish or controlled animal studies that are deliberately kept folate deficient, is pretty low.

However, since this combination of nutrients is shown to uprate neurogenesis, your body is going to be needing more folate than it normally uses, anyway. If you are not obtaining uridine from food sources, why not follow nature's ratios and supplement accordingly? It's not exceeding RDA, in any case.
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#93 MrHappy

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:49 PM

Spirulina is also known to have anti-tumor effects.
http://www.google.co...&oe=UTF-8&hl=en

#94 Propoxy

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:19 AM

is this a good combo choline bitartrate 600mg, lef rna 500mg, 1000mg dha. More or less? a-gpc is too much for me.

#95 sam7777

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:32 AM

How about uridine from broken cell chlorella?

#96 MrHappy

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 03:40 AM

is this a good combo choline bitartrate 600mg, lef rna 500mg, 1000mg dha. More or less? a-gpc is too much for me.


That should do the job, although it's a little light on for uridine. Again I mention those b-vitamins :)

You'll also see better results with 1:4 EPA to DHA ratio, apparently, with EPA requirements being roughly 2 times the amount of uridine taken, making DHA requirements 8 x uridine by weight. Don't forget vitamin E, either. Enhances the effect according to some of the patents.

#97 MrHappy

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 03:42 AM

How about uridine from broken cell chlorella?


Possibly a good option - can you find any data on the uridine content by weight / percentage of total?

#98 MrHappy

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 03:51 AM

CDP-choline/citicoline looks like an easy option too.

#99 rwac

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:26 PM

There appears to be an Ecological Formulas Uridine 300mg (UMP), sounds pretty good.

#100 MrHappy

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:11 PM

Looks like pretty good value :)
18g equiv in handy 300mg caps for $30. Good job!

#101 chrono

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:15 AM

I had a chance to read through the papers cited earlier in the thread, and I think the risk of cancer is probably a lot smaller than I thought. Most of the papers cited by QT were actually about folic acid deficiency in general, though it appears to be exacerbated by uridine. Sorry I was too harsh, I shouldn't have believed what someone else said about the research :P

Again, I mention that the probability of being completely folate deficient outside the petri dish or controlled animal studies that are deliberately kept folate deficient, is pretty low.


The applicable petri dish study abstract didn't specify complete deficiency. It's possible, but there are better words than 'deficient' to indicate a total absence. For all we know, it could translate to a level of 'normal' human dietary deficiency, since that seems capable of causing several types of cancer.


As for the food issue, I wasn't asking about how much different food contains, but the basis of ideas like this:

Nito - you need potentially around 800mcg of folic acid per 1g of uridine (using tomato contents as a ratio) and at least 20mcg of B12 to prevent B9 causing a B12 deficiency.


Now that I've looked at the research more closely, I don't see the reasoning behind increasing folate beyond the RDI (or whatever is necessary to make sure you're not deficient). But more importantly, I see no reason to assume the chemical contents of the tomato provide us with much useful info about optimum human nutrient balance.


However, since this combination of nutrients is shown to uprate neurogenesis, your body is going to be needing more folate than it normally uses, anyway.


Do you have a source for this? It seems that folate deficiency inhibits neurogenesis, but this was due to the hyperhomocysteinemia. I couldn't find evidence that increasing AHN will require extra folate for any reason.
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#102 tintinet

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:23 PM

Looks like pretty good value :)
18g equiv in handy 300mg caps for $30. Good job!



Guess I'll try this out also. Found it for $22.86, shipped.

#103 MrHappy

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:27 AM

I had a chance to read through the papers cited earlier in the thread, and I think the risk of cancer is probably a lot smaller than I thought. Most of the papers cited by QT were actually about folic acid deficiency in general, though it appears to be exacerbated by uridine. Sorry I was too harsh, I shouldn't have believed what someone else said about the research :P

Again, I mention that the probability of being completely folate deficient outside the petri dish or controlled animal studies that are deliberately kept folate deficient, is pretty low.


The applicable petri dish study abstract didn't specify complete deficiency. It's possible, but there are better words than 'deficient' to indicate a total absence. For all we know, it could translate to a level of 'normal' human dietary deficiency, since that seems capable of causing several types of cancer.


As for the food issue, I wasn't asking about how much different food contains, but the basis of ideas like this:

Nito - you need potentially around 800mcg of folic acid per 1g of uridine (using tomato contents as a ratio) and at least 20mcg of B12 to prevent B9 causing a B12 deficiency.


Now that I've looked at the research more closely, I don't see the reasoning behind increasing folate beyond the RDI (or whatever is necessary to make sure you're not deficient). But more importantly, I see no reason to assume the chemical contents of the tomato provide us with much useful info about optimum human nutrient balance.


However, since this combination of nutrients is shown to uprate neurogenesis, your body is going to be needing more folate than it normally uses, anyway.


Do you have a source for this? It seems that folate deficiency inhibits neurogenesis, but this was due to the hyperhomocysteinemia. I couldn't find evidence that increasing AHN will require extra folate for any reason.


No worries. :)

I'm just suggesting that if we know that folate is depleted by a particular set of functions that if we increase the rate of those functions the rate of depletion will also increase proportionally.

Looking at the role that additional folate requirements provide in preventing birth defects seems to demonstrate this effect quite well -the body has a store of folate, but the rate of depletion is definitely increased during pregnancy, when the rate of cellular genesis explodes.

The RDI for pregnant women is 600-800mcg.
The RDI for babies is 65-80mcg.
For a normal adult, it's 400mcg.

By weight, folate requirements are a lot higher in infants. :)

#104 chrono

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:06 AM

I'm just suggesting that if we know that folate is depleted by a particular set of functions that if we increase the rate of those functions the rate of depletion will also increase proportionally.


OK, so I'll ask again: why do you think that anything discussed in this thread will deplete folate? I've skimmed this entire thread and all its links several times, and cannot find any mention of this in the actual research.

It's possible that uridine might deplete folate, since it at least interacts with those nucleotide pools, but I've seen no evidence. The only mention I could find anywhere is rwac saying it gives him sores in his mouth. I definitely don't see evidence of this happening from neurogenesis in general. It's a lot different than growing a baby inside you ;)

Edited by chrono, 16 November 2011 - 02:26 AM.

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#105 JChief

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:29 AM

I read here that synapse formation is enhanced oral uridine + DHA

#106 MrHappy

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:01 AM

Role of folate in methylation of dUMP to TMP: (full access link)

http://www.jneurosci...28/28/7219.full

The mechanisms by which chronic folate deficiency adversely affects CNS function are incompletely understood. Folic acid plays an essential role in one-carbon metabolism: it is required both in the remethylation of homocysteine to methionine and in the synthesis of S-adenosyl-methionine, the principal biological methyl donor in numerous methylation reactions. Reduced DNA methylation during folate deficiency results in altered gene expression and thereby may disrupt genome integrity (Bergman and Mostoslavsky, 1998). Dietary folate also has a major impact on homocysteine levels, which may exert direct neurotoxic and pro-oxidative actions (Lipton et al., 1997; Kruman et al., 2000; Ho et al., 2003) with an inverse relationship between plasma folate and homocysteine concentrations (Selhub et al., 1993).
Importantly, the methylation of deoxyuridine monophosphate (dUMP) to thymidylate (TMP) requires folic acid. Under conditions of folate depletion, a block in the methylation of dUMP to TMP increases intracellular deoxyuridine triphosphate (dUTP) by several orders of magnitude while concomitantly deoxythymidine triphosphate (dTTP) levels drop (Goulian et al., 1980b). Furthermore, a deficiency in folate has been reported to lead to an increase in genome instability (Beetstra et al., 2005), possibly the result of uracil misincorporation into DNA in proliferating cells and the subsequent formation of A:U mismatches. In addition, spontaneous hydrolytic deamination of cytosine both in proliferating and in differentiated cells also results in erroneous uracil residues in the form of U:G mispairs (Barnes and Lindahl, 2004). Base excision repair replaces these uracil bases (Friedberg et al., 2006). Uracil-DNA N-glycosylase (UNG) is the most widely distributed glycosylase that removes uracil from single- as well as double-stranded DNA (Kavli et al., 2002). We have previously demonstrated that UNG is of major importance for brain tissue repair after transient brain ischemia (Endres et al., 2004, 2005).
Here, we tested the hypothesis that neuronal dysfunction induced by chronic folate deficiency is aggravated in the absence of efficient uracil excision repair. We demonstrate significant alterations on the molecular, neurochemical, histological, and behavioral levels with distinct interactions between Ung genotype and folate deficiency

Granted, this refers to neurogenesis in the foetus, but it's not a long stretch to include a process that increases neurogenesis in adults:

http://jn.nutrition....6/1162.abstract

In mice, maternal dietary folate, a cofactor in 1-carbon metabolism, modulates neurogenesis and apoptosis in the fetal brain. Similarly, maternal dietary choline, an important methyl-donor, also influences these processes. Choline and folate are metabolically interrelated, and we determined whether choline supplementation could reverse the effects of folate deficiency on brain development. Timed-pregnant mice were fed control (CT), folate-deficient (FD), or folate-deficient, choline-supplemented (FDCS) AIN-76 diets from d 11 to 17 (E11–17) of pregnancy, and on E17, fetal brains were collected for analysis. Compared with the CT group, the FD group had fewer neural progenitor cells undergoing mitosis in the ventricular zones of the developing mouse brain septum (47%; P < 0.01), hippocampus (29%; P < 0.01), striatum (34%; P < 0.01), and anterior and mid-posterior neocortex (33% in both areas; P < 0.01). In addition, compared with CT, the FD diet almost doubled the rate of apoptosis in the fetal septum and hippocampus (P < 0.01). In the FDCS group, the mitosis rates generally were intermediate between those of the CT and FD groups; mitosis rates in the septum and striatum were significantly greater compared with the FD group and were significantly lower than in the CT group only in the septum and neocortex. In the FDCS group, the hippocampal apoptosis rate was significantly lower than in the FD group (P < 0.01) and was the same as in the CT group. In the septum, the apotosis rate in the FDCS group was intermediate between the CT and FD groups' rates. These results suggest that neural progenitor cells in fetal forebrain are sensitive to maternal dietary folate during late gestation and that choline supplementation can modify some, but not all, of these effects.

Particularly when you read this:

http://journals.lww....of_adult.5.aspx
Folate deficiency inhibits proliferation of adult hippocampal progenitors


Neurogenesis in the adult hippocampus may play important roles in learning and memory, and in recovery from injury. As recent findings suggest, the perturbance of homocysteine/folate or one-carbon metabolism can adversely affect both the developing and the adult brain, and increase the risk of neural tube defects and Alzheimer's disease. We report that dietary folic acid deficiency dramatically increased blood homocysteine levels and significantly reduced the number of proliferating cells in the dentate gyrus of the hippocampus in adult mice. In vitro, the perturbance of one-carbon metabolism repressed proliferation of cultured embryonic multipotent neuroepithelial progenitor cells and affected cell cycle distribution. Our results suggest that dietary folate deficiency inhibits proliferation of neuronal progenitor cells in the adult brain and thereby affects neurogenesis.

So..Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but, I'm fairly confident that folate levels will be depleted by neurogenesis in general and that folate deficiency during neurogenesis leads to DNA transcription errors. We know that uridine uprates neurogenesis, as per previous papers on this thread.

Therefore, increased neurogenesis = increased requirement for folate = increased requirement for B12 .. unless I'm missing something, here?
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#107 chrono

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:10 AM

So..Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but, I'm fairly confident that folate levels will be depleted by neurogenesis in general and that folate deficiency during neurogenesis leads to DNA transcription errors. We know that uridine uprates neurogenesis, as per previous papers on this thread.


If you read the links in post #101, folate deficiency was shown to inhibit neurogenesis through its increase of homocysteine levels. This effect is also mentioned in the last abstract you posted. Just because a deficiency in folate inhibits production of something, doesn't mean that folate is directly required (and thus depleted) by said process. I could find no evidence of such a direct relationship, let alone one that would deplete folate to such an extent as to require supplementation beyond the RDI. And as a general note, the amount of neurons created in the adult brain is nothing like what happens in a developing fetus.


And thanks for that first paper, it's helpful. But the assumptions are still that a) increasing plasma uridine will increase synthesis of deoxyuridine, b) an increase in deoxyuridine will stimulate production of TMP, c) the relationship between added uridine and extra folate required would be linear, and d) the putative increase in the dUMP -> TMP reaction could require so much folate as to increase a person's daily requirement by as much as 50% or more. As folate serves many purposes in the body, this seems intuitively unlikely to me. Assumptions A and B may seem like givens, but there are many such reactions whose rate is controlled by factors other than the availability of one or two important precursors. I'll try to find the answers to this at some point, but from some initial searches it looks like it may require some digging, or luck.

Edited by chrono, 17 November 2011 - 12:19 AM.

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#108 MrHappy

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:53 AM

True - at this stage we have nothing quantifying exact folate requirements in adults who are up-rating neurogenesis (promoting BDNF) or whether doses above RDI is required. It would would take a couple of weeks of controlled study to ascertain if this process exceeded the replenishment of folate stores.

This was also interesting.. Again foetal:

http://www.jstage.js...47_174/_article

Summary  The present study investigated the effect of folic acid supplementation on the Notch signaling pathway and cell proliferation in rat embryonic neural stem cells (NSCs). The NSCs were isolated from E14–16 rat brain and grown as neurospheres in serum-free suspension culture. Individual cultures were assigned to one of 3 treatment groups that differed according to the concentration of folic acid in the medium: Control (baseline folic acid concentration of 4 mg/l), low folic acid supplementation (4 mg/l above baseline, Folate-L) and high folic acid supplementation (40 mg/l above baseline, Folate-H). NSCs were identified by their expression of immunoreactive nestin and proliferating cells by incorporation of 5'bromo-2'deoxyuridine. Cell proliferation was also assessed by methyl thiazolyl tetrazolium assay. Notch signaling was analyzed by real-time PCR and western blot analyses of the expression of Notch1 and hairy and enhancer of split 5 (Hes5). Supplementation of NSCs with folic acid increased the mRNA and protein expression levels of Notch1 and Hes5. Folic acid supplementation also stimulated NSC proliferation dose-dependently. Embryonic NSCs respond to folic acid supplementation with increased Notch signaling and cell proliferation. This mechanism may mediate the effects of folic acid supplementation on neurogenesis in the embryonic nervous system.

#109 chrono

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:38 AM

True - at this stage we have nothing quantifying exact folate requirements in adults who are up-rating neurogenesis (promoting BDNF) or whether doses above RDI is required. It would would take a couple of weeks of controlled study to ascertain if this process exceeded the replenishment of folate stores.


Such a study would be insanely expensive, as you'd simultaneously have to prove that the agent you were using is capable of increasing neurogenesis in the adult human brain. I'm not sure this has ever been accomplished. But more importantly, it's not really a matter of insufficient human data: given the evidence you've presented, there's really no reason to suspect neurogenesis increases folate requirement in the first place. Though you're free to form your own opinion, it's frustrating to have this kind of discussion when someone can't admit the entire basis of their argument is flawed. Uridine is another matter, for reasons which are independent of its neural effects.

The NSC study used 10-100x the entire human RDI per liter, and did not mention depletion. Interesting, but very tenuous as support for this assertion, as these conditions are even more artificial than the in vitro studies on cancer we discussed earlier. If anything, it might support the idea that mega-doses of folate could increase the number of neural progenitor cells, but I don't think any of us would want to do something like that.

Also, I couldn't find any evidence that uridine has an effect on BDNF.

Edited by chrono, 17 November 2011 - 01:45 AM.

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#110 MrHappy

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:39 AM

Easy, tiger..

I think there is a big difference between a flawed argument and a logical observation / hypothesis that requires additional data or citations.

I've repeatedly welcomed and asked for corrections, discussions and additional information, should anyone have the expertise and time. That's why I'm here, in fact.. :)

Chronic uridine+DHA combo increases BDNF, as the papers linked to earlier in the thread show.

Folate, however, is not well understood and a LOT more research needs to be done. I have made some reasonable suggestions, based on the available literature and logical observation, but I don't have access to 20 lab rats and testing equipment prove my point beyond that level. I feel the logic is sound, but the quantities and ratios really need to be proven/clarified. In any case, in the absence of that data, I am going to just err on the side of caution and stick to roughly >RDI folate and B12. It can only assist.

Side note / off topic> I found that while taking MB, I became a bit tightly focused and almost aggressively direct - kind of like asperger's behaviour sometimes. I'm normally a really nice guy. I think MorganM/Logan had a similar experience - he called it 'being a little salty'.. I think a few others had similar experiences, too. I mention this in case you've noticed anything similar in your experiences with MB, so far..? :)

#111 chrono

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 09:07 AM

I did a pubmed and google scholar search, and I just loaded and searched every link in this thread. The only mention of BDNF I could find is this study (not mentioned here yet), where uridine restored normal levels in a model of Huntington's disease. This being the only mention in the large body of studies makes it unlikely that BDNF is uridine's primary MOA.

As for your ideas about neurogenesis, I guess I made my point in relation to this topic. Sorry I said your argument was flawed, I guess you thought the basic premise was still worth defending after I thought your support had been refuted. In my defense, just saying "we need more data" didn't really acknowledge the points I had made very clearly, or convey what parts of your reasoning you no longer considered true...it would be pretty helpful if your responses were more precise, if such a suggestion isn't too out of line. Those of us with MB-induced asperger's have a hard time telling, apparently :ph34r:

Edited by chrono, 17 November 2011 - 12:24 PM.

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#112 chrono

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:18 AM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet. Triacetyluridine (TAU/PN401) is a uridine prodrug which seems to be better than uridine itself at raising plasma levels (oral uridine bioavailability is about 6-10% [1]).


5-(m-Benzyloxybenzyl)barbituric acid acyclonucleoside, a uridine phosphorylase inhibitor, and 2',3',5'-tri-O-acetyluridine, a prodrug of uridine, as modulators of plasma uridine concentration. Implications for chemotherapy.
Ashour OM, Naguib FN, el Kouni MH.

...Oral BBBA administered at 30, 60, 120, and 240 mg/kg increased the concentration of plasma uridine (2.6 +/- 0.7 microM) by 3.2-, 4.6-, 5.4-, and 7.2-fold, respectively. After administration of 120 and 240 mg/kg BBBA, plasma uridine concentration remained 3- and 6-fold, respectively, higher than the plasma concentration at zero time (C0) for over 8 hr. On the other hand, BBBA did not change the concentration of plasma uracil. TAU was far more superior than uridine in improving the bioavailability of plasma uridine. The relative bioavailability of plasma uridine released from oral TAU (53%) was 7-fold higher than that (7.7%) obtained by oral uridine. Oral TAU at 460, 1000, and 2000 mg/kg achieved area under the curve (AUC) values of plasma uridine of 82, 288, and 754 mumol.hr/L, respectively. Coadministration of BBBA with uridine or TAU further improved the bioavailability of plasma uridine resulting from the administration of either alone and reduced the Cmax and AUC of plasma uracil. Coadministration of BBBA at 30, 60, and 120 mg/kg improved the relative bioavailability of uridine released from 2000 mg/kg TAU (53%) by 1.7-, 2.7-, and 3.9-fold, respectively, while coadministration of the same doses of BBBA with an equimolar dose of uridine (1320 mg/kg) increased the relative bioavailability of oral uridine (7.7%) by 4.1-, 5.3-, and 7.8-fold, respectively. Moreover, the AUC and Cmax of plasma uridine after BBBA (120 mg/kg) coadministration with TAU were 3.5- and 11.5-fold, respectively, higher than those obtained from coadministration of BBBA with an equimolar dose of uridine. The exceptional effectiveness of the BBBA plus TAU combination in elevating and sustaining high plasma uridine concentration can be useful in the management of medical disorders that are remedied by administration of uridine as well as to rescue or protect from host-toxicities of various chemotherapeutic pyrimidine analogues.




Phase I trial of PN401, an oral prodrug of uridine, to prevent toxicity from fluorouracil in patients with advanced cancer.
Kelsen DP, Martin D, O'Neil J, Schwartz G, Saltz L, Sung MT, von Borstel R, Bertino J.

Oral PN401 is well tolerated and total doses of 6 g every 6 hours yield sustained levels of URD in the target range of 50 mumol/L. The MTD of FU with PN401 rescue is 1,000 mg/m2 and the recommended dose for phase II trials is 800 mg/m2 given weekly for 6 weeks with dose escalation. Further studies to define better the appropriate interval for PN401 rescue and the appropriate dose of FU when given with biochemical modulation, such as with leucovorin, are indicated.



Though given the probable expense of this supplement, it would probably just make more sense to take more of something with regular uridine, unless you're getting 5-FU treatment for cancer.

Edited by chrono, 17 November 2011 - 12:22 PM.

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#113 JChief

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:41 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet. Triacetyluridine (TAU/PN401) is a uridine prodrug which seems to be better than uridine itself at raising plasma levels (oral uridine bioavailability is about 6-10% [1]).

[...]

Though given the probable expense of this supplement, it would probably just make more sense to take more of something with regular uridine, unless you're getting 5-FU treatment for cancer.


You may have just struck GOLD with me, my friend. But, let me advise that the expense is no more than plain ol uridine! See here .

Edited by JChief, 17 November 2011 - 01:41 PM.


#114 MrHappy

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:27 PM

Ahhh.. I think I understand the confusion!

When I was talking about the uridine+dha++ combo promoting BDNF, I wasn't talking about the uridine component in relation to BDNF - that's DHA's job. Uridine appears to act as an accelerant for production of ATP, amongst other things. Something special appears to occur when DHA and uridine are taken together, however.

That's an interesting link for TAU.. The pricing is also good. I'm starting to think that CDP-choline might be one of the most bioavailable sources... More reading needed. :)

#115 chrono

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:22 PM

You may have just struck GOLD with me, my friend. But, let me advise that the expense is no more than plain ol uridine! See here .


Hmm, I guess so. The TAU product is 60x25mg for $14 ($9.30/g). There's a link on the first page with UMP 25g for $45 ($1.8/g). UMP is 10% more uridine by molecular weight, but assuming the maximum 10% bioavailability figure applies to UMP (uridine and UMP seem to be used interchangeably in a lot of studies), the TAU supplement comes out (very) roughly 30c (20%) cheaper per gram assuming a 7x bioavailability enhancement.

Not sure if a source like chlorella might be cheaper if you buy it in bulk, though.

Edited by chrono, 17 November 2011 - 06:23 PM.


#116 rwac

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:01 PM

The LEF RNA supplement will provide 25g of cytidine+uridine for 13.46 @iherb.
(fairly educated guess)

#117 JChief

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 06:29 AM

You may have just struck GOLD with me, my friend. But, let me advise that the expense is no more than plain ol uridine! See here .


Hmm, I guess so. The TAU product is 60x25mg for $14 ($9.30/g). There's a link on the first page with UMP 25g for $45 ($1.8/g). UMP is 10% more uridine by molecular weight, but assuming the maximum 10% bioavailability figure applies to UMP (uridine and UMP seem to be used interchangeably in a lot of studies), the TAU supplement comes out (very) roughly 30c (20%) cheaper per gram assuming a 7x bioavailability enhancement.

Not sure if a source like chlorella might be cheaper if you buy it in bulk, though.


I remember taking chlorella and within an hour barfing up green stuff pulled over on the highway in a snowstorm. Yeah I'll pass. ;)

#118 MrHappy

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 06:49 AM

Tried spirulina?

#119 JChief

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:48 AM

Tried spirulina?


Yes last year. Took it for awhile just because it was a healthy thing to do (I was also eating a raw food diet and all that comes with it). Didn't notice any mood improvement or anything. Knowing me, I am going to skip the whole food variety and go with a supplement. Looking like TAU but we'll see.

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#120 Propoxy

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:29 PM

anyone know of source that carries large dose uridine other then ebay? I'm using LEF RNA and Lef Cognitex.

Edited by Propoxy, 19 November 2011 - 11:42 PM.






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