2844 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

I think I missed your post before I went on holidays.

reading the majority of this topic took so long..anyways... could someone direct me towards a well balanced (cheap) b vitamin?

also, is the gpc being recommended for it's growth hormone stimulating properties? If so, at what dose(if any) of choline citrate could i achieve similar results?

and in regards to fish oil, how important is the dha/epa ratio? my current fish oil is 650epa /450 dha per teaspoon and i drink maybe 3 teaspoons a day

Thanks

B vitamins - what country are you in? (I'm on a phone)
Choline - I prefer a-gpc or CDP, but YMMV
Fish oil - try to stick to the 2:1 (dha:epa) ratio, but I don't think it's critical.

[biggyrat]

Hi Yoann & Mr Happy-

Thanks so much for the replies. As far a Mercury detox- I did have all amalgams removed a long time ago and if I remember correctly, was checked for metal toxicity and did some type of chelation. Maybe this would still be a factor, but it seems unlikely. I'm pretty careful also about eating fish that is high in mercury.

Mr Happy- thanks for the suggestion. Curious as to why it would make a difference if taken orally rather than sublingually, and why full doses rather than partial ? I'm not saying that I don't like the suggestion, just wondered if you might explain it a bit more. Today I didn't take any- too scared to get into the frame of mind I was in while on it.

Thanks again- I really appreciate the input.

Cheers,

Sally

[yoann_co]

MrHappy : good to hear from you !

biggyrat : Wow I wasn't answering especially you, but it's good if it can help you. If you are depressed, I would prefer more EPA than DHA ( nearly 1g EPA) and no or low dose choline, and I take only one cap of cardiovascular research TAU or UMP in the morning. It works for me. Don't forget vitamin E (mixed) for antioxydant action and multivitamin. I think vit C is also very good.

Also if you have cognitive problems like me, I would bet on 3 things : psychology, mercury (or related) and gluten free regimen.
Witch kind of chelation did you do?

Cheers

Edited by yoann_co, 08 January 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[norepinephrine]

Mr. Happy - you've said repeatedly that uridine and caffeine don't mix. Is it alright to space them out 12 hours apart?

[biggyrat]

Hi Yoann-

Thanks for the clarification and info. I think the ch elation I did was a pill form of the substance that is also used in IV... but it was so long ago- I barely remember.

[MrHappy]

Mr. Happy - you've said repeatedly that uridine and caffeine don't mix. Is it alright to space them out 12 hours apart?

I haven't tried, personally.

Plasma terminal half-life is about 12 hours, but I don't think it'd work as well overall, as some of the effects I've seen (neural blood flow, eyesight improvementa) are built up from dosing twice per day for around a week.

[biggyrat]

Mr Happy-

Thanks for the response to my inquires. Could you explain a bit more as to why you think that taking Uridine orally rather than sublingually, full does, 2 x per day might eliminate the negative effects I was having?

Thanks...

[MrHappy]

Mr Happy-

Thanks for the response to my inquires. Could you explain a bit more as to why you think that taking Uridine orally rather than sublingually, full does, 2 x per day might eliminate the negative effects I was having?

Thanks...

You're currently taking a sublingual dose, which is significantly (estimated at 7x) stronger than an oral dose. This dose level can cause emotional 'dullness' for some people. Plasma terminal half-life is 12 hours, so dosing twice per day will give you a slight overlap and consistent experience.

Twice per day at the standard dose level should net you the desired effects.

Please read the first post in this thread for more info, if you haven't already.

[biggyrat]

You're currently taking a sublingual dose, which is significantly (estimated at 7x) stronger than an oral dose. This dose level can cause emotional 'dullness' for some people. Plasma terminal half-life is 12 hours, so dosing twice per day will give you a slight overlap and consistent experience.

Twice per day at the standard dose level should net you the desired effects.

Please read the first post in this thread for more info, if you haven't already.


Thanks Mr Happy! I have read much of the thread, but will look at that again.

Cheers,

Sally

[Hope47]

So,would you guys recommend oral dose on empty stomach or after meals?

[Raza]

If sublingual is simply seven times as potent as oral, why advice people to take 250mg oral rather than around 35mg sublingual?

You'll run out of powder a lot more quickly doing that.

Edited by Raza, 11 January 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[MrHappy]

If sublingual is simply seven times as potent as oral, why advice people to take 250mg oral rather than around 35mg sublingual?

You'll run out of powder a lot more quickly doing that.

Because it's much, much easier to measure out and adjust doses, at least initially, unless you own mg scales.

So,would you guys recommend oral dose on empty stomach or after meals?

I normally dose about 20 minutes before meals.

[chung_pao]

Nutrient mixture improves memory in patients with early Alzheimer’s

http://web.mit.edu/n...xture-0709.html
"Alzheimer’s patients gradually lose those connections, known as synapses, leading to memory loss and other cognitive impairments. The supplement mixture, known as Souvenaid, appears to stimulate growth of new synapses,"

"Wurtman came up with a mixture of three naturally occurring dietary compounds: choline, uridine and the omega-3 fatty acid DHA."

Seems there's a name for your stack now, Mrhappy

Edited by chung_pao, 15 January 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[owtsgmi]

Hello Everyone,

Usually I'm lurking about, but thought I would chime in a bit. I started taking Uridine a few days ago ( I think this is day 3). I purchased the powder form of UMP from Super Neutraceuticals. I also have Alpha GPC- taking 1 400mg cap ( NOW) per day. I have not been taking DHA so far. The UMP comes with a scoop, which full is supposed to be around 250mg. Day 1 I took about 3/4 scoop, yesterday 1 full scoop, today about 1/2 scoop. I take the powder sublingually, before eating, when I get up in the morning. The effect seems to come on in about an hour or so ( haven't kept track exactly), and I think it becomes more pronounced as the day goes along. By evening it seems to wear off. i also take Wellbutrin- a pretty small dose.

The first day I took it, it seemed amazing in that, it sort of calmed me down. Often I find that I don't concentrate well on anything that is stressful or difficult, that I flit from thing to thing, am scattered- trying to do too many things at once- never getting very far with one thing. So it seemed that UPM was really helping me with this. It seems to help me be more focused, not be so concerned with all the other things I need to do, while trying to do one thing, and , to some extent seems to make me feel less self conscious while speaking in a group ( this is often very difficult for me). The problem is that I go from my usual state of being too concerned with exterior issues ( what other peole think, everything else I need to get done, etc), to feeling calmer, more focused, more centered in myself, but then it gets too extreme, where I begin to feel very disconnected, alienated, very cut off, not feeling much for anyone else. It feels scary - not good. I thought that today, by taking about 1/2 scoop, I possibly woudln't experience the same disconnect, but unfortunatly this seems to be just as strong as before.

I wondered whether anyone else had experienced this. I don't know whether taking DHA would help. I sort of conflicted about taking fish oits. The issues with how polyunsaturated they are, the Weston A Price stance on them - they advocate the fermened cod liver oil, but I am wary of that as well- and the taste is hard to take. So this is why I have not taken the DHA.

I understand that the extra choline can contribute to depression ( I don't understand why that is so) which I have suffered from for much of my life, but I don't know if I can classify the feelings that I've been having as a result of taking UMP as depression exactly. At least its not a depression that I am familiar with. I mainly feel very detached, from people ( my daughter even) and just that things are bad somehow. I'm not sure how to describe it.

Thanks,

Sally
'

From the admittedly very minute glimpse into your life, it sounds to me like you are obsessing less with the uridine and are just not used to it. You may be equating that former obsessiveness with closeness/connectedness to you daughter, etc. What you are gaining though is mental health and are maybe scared because it represents a change. Less obsession is good. You worry less about others and learn to live in the moment and do positive things for yourself and others. Unless I am completely off base here, I would say give it some time and don't be afraid to let go of the obsessions. You'll be stronger and more positive for it.

Edited by owtsgmi, 15 January 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[biggyrat]

Hi owtsgmi-


Thanks for the reply. Good points- it has crossed my mind, that some of my discomfort with this and various other nootripics, that get me out of my usual state, may very well have something to do with my own psychology. Meanwhile, I have not tried UPM again, as of yet, other than the few times I used it subligually, and then after hearing from Mr Happy about taking an oral dose, I tried that as well. Still got me into sort of a scary space. I will try it again at some point.

[MrHappy]

Nutrient mixture improves memory in patients with early Alzheimer’s

http://web.mit.edu/n...xture-0709.html
"Alzheimer’s patients gradually lose those connections, known as synapses, leading to memory loss and other cognitive impairments. The supplement mixture, known as Souvenaid, appears to stimulate growth of new synapses,"

"Wurtman came up with a mixture of three naturally occurring dietary compounds: choline, uridine and the omega-3 fatty acid DHA."

Seems there's a name for your stack now, Mrhappy

Indeed there is - Wurtman, et al. are the most prominent researchers in this area. 2nd stage human trials, now.

Fortasyn Connect is the other product name, although AFAIK, Souvenaid has more components/cofactors included. Danone is the manufacturer/distributor.

[Adaptogen]

I think I missed your post before I went on holidays.

B vitamins - what country are you in? (I'm on a phone)
Choline - I prefer a-gpc or CDP, but YMMV
Fish oil - try to stick to the 2:1 (dha:epa) ratio, but I don't think it's critical.

I currently have a cheap bottle of b-100 from solaray. I understand that the dosages are a little high. Could i just cut these capsules in half to get a reduced dosage, or is that not a good idea?

[nupi]

Cutting capsules is kind of hard but you could throw away half of the filling?

[Raza]

From the admittedly very minute glimpse into your life, it sounds to me like you are obsessing less with the uridine and are just not used to it. You may be equating that former obsessiveness with closeness/connectedness to you daughter, etc. What you are gaining though is mental health and are maybe scared because it represents a change. Less obsession is good. You worry less about others and learn to live in the moment and do positive things for yourself and others. Unless I am completely off base here, I would say give it some time and don't be afraid to let go of the obsessions. You'll be stronger and more positive for it.

That's one interpretation, but I'm not so sure.

Social disconnection and reduced pleasure from social situations is definitely one of the side effects I feel from Uridine, as well. Personally, I avoid it on non-workdays for that reason.

[owtsgmi]

From the admittedly very minute glimpse into your life, it sounds to me like you are obsessing less with the uridine and are just not used to it. You may be equating that former obsessiveness with closeness/connectedness to you daughter, etc. What you are gaining though is mental health and are maybe scared because it represents a change. Less obsession is good. You worry less about others and learn to live in the moment and do positive things for yourself and others. Unless I am completely off base here, I would say give it some time and don't be afraid to let go of the obsessions. You'll be stronger and more positive for it.

That's one interpretation, but I'm not so sure.

Social disconnection and reduced pleasure from social situations is definitely one of the side effects I feel from Uridine, as well. Personally, I avoid it on non-workdays for that reason.

Interesting. I think it does the opposite for me. The "modulating" effect of of uridine suggests it can both lower and raise dopamine. This implies it would lower dopamine if you had too much and raise it if you didn't have enough. This seems oversimplified, but if we can equate dopamine with being outgoing, that could explain why some are more social while others aren't on uridine.

That being said, if I take too much uridine, I do get edgy and am less social also. So, maybe pro-social effects go away with higher dosages.

Edited by owtsgmi, 18 January 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[MrHappy]

From the admittedly very minute glimpse into your life, it sounds to me like you are obsessing less with the uridine and are just not used to it. You may be equating that former obsessiveness with closeness/connectedness to you daughter, etc. What you are gaining though is mental health and are maybe scared because it represents a change. Less obsession is good. You worry less about others and learn to live in the moment and do positive things for yourself and others. Unless I am completely off base here, I would say give it some time and don't be afraid to let go of the obsessions. You'll be stronger and more positive for it.

That's one interpretation, but I'm not so sure.

Social disconnection and reduced pleasure from social situations is definitely one of the side effects I feel from Uridine, as well. Personally, I avoid it on non-workdays for that reason.

How much/often are you dosing?

[Hope47]

http://www.iherb.com...-Capsules/42569

Is this good product.

[synaptiq]

http://www.iherb.com/Cardiovascular-Research-Ltd-Uridine-60-Capsules/42569

Is this good product.

It's good, if a bit pricier than the SN uridine products - but then again I'm not sure how they'd compare in shipping costs for you. Triacetyluridine is fat soluble, so take it with food or just at the same time as your fish oil (or other DHA source).

[BioFreak]

Does anyone know a good source for uridine in europe? MrHappy posted a link to a french site, but thats now a 404 - and I cant find the product on their website anymore.

I could get spirulina, but I doubt that it is as effective, given the same amount of uridine. Am I wrong?

[Drifter]

According to this article: http://www.spanimax....a-3-and-uridine

Sardines are rich in uridine. I can't find much to back this up though, sites such as whfoods and nutritiondata, as well as chronometre, do not list uridine content. I'm going to try and find out more about this, because according to this:

http://nutritiondata...products/4115/2

A can of sardines would provide enough omega 3s, as well as some choline, so potentially it could provide most of the nutrients in this mix from one food.

[Raza]

How much/often are you dosing?

Between 40mg and 250mg sublingual, sporadically.

That's one interpretation, but I'm not so sure.

Social disconnection and reduced pleasure from social situations is definitely one of the side effects I feel from Uridine, as well. Personally, I avoid it on non-workdays for that reason.

Interesting. I think it does the opposite for me. The "modulating" effect of of uridine suggests it can both lower and raise dopamine. This implies it would lower dopamine if you had too much and raise it if you didn't have enough. This seems oversimplified, but if we can equate dopamine with being outgoing, that could explain why some are more social while others aren't on uridine.

That being said, if I take too much uridine, I do get edgy and am less social also. So, maybe pro-social effects go away with higher dosages.

Somewhere in this thread, someone posted how people on the autism spectrum have higher brain uridine levels. I'm on the autism spectrum, and for me personally, taking uridine feels a lot like stepping a few years back in the progressive social warming-up I've been going through the past six years or so. There's more distance from experience and empathy, like watching your life from a screen. There's a payoff in objectivity and emotional stability though, and these effects are completely transient.

Could be there's some relation between the social symptoms of autism and uridine, and/or that my (presumably) naturally high levels leave me predisposed to a low-dose onset of its anti-social effects.

Note, though, that I'm still using up my stash of 'Enhanced Sublingual Formula' UMP, which has a ridiculous dose of methyl B12 as a confounding factor.

Edited by Raza, 23 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[yoann_co]

I'm also lucky in that I have no dental fillings, but one of these days, I'll probably do a hair test just to see if there is anything I should look at - although, I do eat spirulina almost daily, which does act as a chelator.

Hi MrHappy,

If I remember, you're vegetarian and so you're DHA supplement source is from ALA (alpha lipoic acid).
What I discover is that ALA is very very well know on my french forum (and some of the world's intoxication specialists) as a powerful chelator.

ALA is one of the best chelator of mercury and arsenic, it can cross the blood brain barrier, and chelate both extracellular and intracellular. It is also one of the strongest antioxydant.

So I think that if MrHappy you are taking ALA every day, you cannot be physically intoxicated from mercury and arsenic, witch is a good think .

On the other hand for another guy who is intoxicated with mercury, taking ALA for the first time can be very dangerous, because of the quantity of mercury moving into the body...

Last thing I discover is that health is global, Dr Klinghardt is a good source of ideas in that way.

Make cures for intestines, kidneys, liver, seems to be extremely helpful. I think taking pills should not be the only solution in a real health program for yourself... (I'm not talking especially to MrHappy )

Cheers

[Hebbeh]

I'm also lucky in that I have no dental fillings, but one of these days, I'll probably do a hair test just to see if there is anything I should look at - although, I do eat spirulina almost daily, which does act as a chelator.

Hi MrHappy,

If I remember, you're vegetarian and so you're DHA supplement source is from ALA (alpha lipoic acid).
What I discover is that ALA is very very well know on my french forum (and some of the world's intoxication specialists) as a powerful chelator.

ALA is one of the best chelator of mercury and arsenic, it can cross the blood brain barrier, and chelate both extracellular and intracellular. It is also one of the strongest antioxydant.

So I think that if MrHappy you are taking ALA every day, you cannot be physically intoxicated from mercury and arsenic, witch is a good think .

On the other hand for another guy who is intoxicated with mercury, taking ALA for the first time can be very dangerous, because of the quantity of mercury moving into the body...

Last thing I discover is that health is global, Dr Klinghardt is a good source of ideas in that way.

Make cures for intestines, kidneys, liver, seems to be extremely helpful. I think taking pills should not be the only solution in a real health program for yourself... (I'm not talking especially to MrHappy )

Cheers

Alpha lipoic acid is not a source of DHA. The source of DHA MrHappy is referring to is the ALA fatty acid alpha-Linolenic acid. Common sources of the omega-3 fatty acid ALA are flax seed oil, chia seeds/oil, perilla oil, and walnuts.

[yoann_co]

I'm also lucky in that I have no dental fillings, but one of these days, I'll probably do a hair test just to see if there is anything I should look at - although, I do eat spirulina almost daily, which does act as a chelator.

Hi MrHappy,

If I remember, you're vegetarian and so you're DHA supplement source is from ALA (alpha lipoic acid).
What I discover is that ALA is very very well know on my french forum (and some of the world's intoxication specialists) as a powerful chelator.

ALA is one of the best chelator of mercury and arsenic, it can cross the blood brain barrier, and chelate both extracellular and intracellular. It is also one of the strongest antioxydant.

So I think that if MrHappy you are taking ALA every day, you cannot be physically intoxicated from mercury and arsenic, witch is a good think .

On the other hand for another guy who is intoxicated with mercury, taking ALA for the first time can be very dangerous, because of the quantity of mercury moving into the body...

Last thing I discover is that health is global, Dr Klinghardt is a good source of ideas in that way.

Make cures for intestines, kidneys, liver, seems to be extremely helpful. I think taking pills should not be the only solution in a real health program for yourself... (I'm not talking especially to MrHappy )

Cheers

Alpha lipoic acid is not a source of DHA. The source of DHA MrHappy is referring to is the ALA fatty acid alpha-Linolenic acid. Common sources of the omega-3 fatty acid ALA are flax seed oil, chia seeds/oil, perilla oil, and walnuts.

Oops sorry! I thought it was the same ALA, thank you!!

So there is - ALA alpha-Linolenic acid, source of omega 3.
- ALA alpha lipoic acid, one of the best chelator of mercury and arsenic and one of the strongest antioxydant.
You can edit my previous post if you want!!

Edited by yoann_co, 25 January 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[tea76]

Does anyone know a good source for uridine in europe? MrHappy posted a link to a french site, but thats now a 404 - and I cant find the product on their website anymore.

I could get spirulina, but I doubt that it is as effective, given the same amount of uridine. Am I wrong?

Hi guys, I'm also looking for a good UMP source in the EU.

Btw, I posted this question a while ago in another thread, but realised it may be more relevant here. Why is it important to include Vitamin E if you already take Multivitamins? Isn't Vitamin E already included in the Multivitamins?

And does the ratio of DHA in fish oil have to be higher to that of EPA?

Edited by ecglsd, 25 January 2013 - 06:19 PM.