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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#1921 kimrick

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 01:59 AM

The following is my working model, until something better appears. My disclosed sources are not connected to me in any way except by purchase.

I take the following first thing in the morning:

480 mg DHA - [four Omega-3 Fish Oil caps, 120 mg DHA each] - (swansonvitamins.com #SW1253)
500 mg Cognizin Citicoline - (swansonvitamins.com #SWU246)

I wait 15-30 minutes for them to dissolve and become bioavailable, then I take:

300 mg UMP Enhanced Sublingual Powder - (superiornutraceuticals.com),
weighed on an AMW-100 .01g scale - (amazon.com, < $10.00). 1/8 tsp is effectively 300 mg.

Then eat nothing for 15 - 30 minutes or until UMP is assimilated. That's it.

I had been taking CR TAU + alpha GPC + dha for several weeks. Nothing at all. Then I replaced alpha GPC with the Citicoline and 2 - 25 mg caps CR Ltd oral TAU with the sublingual UMP. After 10 days I started to become aware, at last, that the uridine + choline + dha studies weren't just empirical abstracts but really apply in the wild, so to speak. The truth is always in the details, no? This works, at least for me. I would not go back to alpha GPC and oral TAU.

The most expensive component is, easily, the citicoline. Anyone know of a bulk powder source?

I'm very grateful to longecity.com for everything everybody has shared with me. Thank you.

Edited by kimrich, 18 April 2013 - 02:07 AM.


#1922 DamnedOwl

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:07 AM

The most expensive component is, easily, the citicoline. Anyone know of a bulk powder source?


I thought Superior Nutraceuticals sell citicoline in bulk powder?

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#1923 Renegade

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:52 PM

I received my UMP today after having negative experiences with TAU.

I took approx. 150mg orally. Within an hour, I felt the brain fog and dull mood I had experienced this afternoon begin to lift. I now feel slightly stimulated, motivated, with an accompanying sense of 'lightness' (has anyone experienced this feeling of lightness?!)

I started writing a advert for a job vacancy this morning - which never materialised due to feeling unfocused and clouded. I managed to just very quickly complete it and was quite amazed at my mental acuity, fluency and level of focus. I was also just now on a business call where I felt more fluent and 'sharp.'

Does this all sound like textbook uridine? I hope so and that I will reap the positive effects from UMP which I did not from TAU. I am aware that the dosage was rather low. Is it possible to get such pronounced effects from this dosage? It does not feel like placebo. My focus is quite like tunnel vision right now, which along with the mood lift, feels great!

Edited by Renegade, 18 April 2013 - 05:58 PM.

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#1924 hani

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:39 PM

You got it from the link I put up? If so, they're capsules, so you just split them open and dissolved them in water or something?

#1925 MrHappy

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

The following is my working model, until something better appears. My disclosed sources are not connected to me in any way except by purchase.

I'm very grateful to longecity.com for everything everybody has shared with me. Thank you.


Glad we could help! :)

As DamnedOwl said, superiornutraceuticals should have bulk CDP.

I received my UMP today after having negative experiences with TAU.

I took approx. 150mg orally. Within an hour, I felt the brain fog and dull mood I had experienced this afternoon begin to lift. I now feel slightly stimulated, motivated, with an accompanying sense of 'lightness' (has anyone experienced this feeling of lightness?!)

I started writing a advert for a job vacancy this morning - which never materialised due to feeling unfocused and clouded. I managed to just very quickly complete it and was quite amazed at my mental acuity, fluency and level of focus. I was also just now on a business call where I felt more fluent and 'sharp.'

Does this all sound like textbook uridine? I hope so and that I will reap the positive effects from UMP which I did not from TAU. I am aware that the dosage was rather low. Is it possible to get such pronounced effects from this dosage? It does not feel like placebo. My focus is quite like tunnel vision right now, which along with the mood lift, feels great!


That's quite possible. Individual circumstances, etc. :)

It's interesting that some people don't respond to TAU, but most people respond to UMP.

#1926 BioFreak

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:01 AM

I do not really understand why gpc-choline is preferred to cdp choline.Cdp choline seems to have so much more positive effects on the human brain... I gonna get some bulk powder from ebay, after I found out that my original order on amazon has been shipped from the usa. :(

My effects from uridine seem to be more happiness, easier(=faster) to let go after stressful events, a holiday feeling when not in a stressful situation. Slightly clearer thoughts, better concentration, motivation. In fact my girlfriend was sort of frightened because I was so happy last time we went out for a walk, when I should be devastated because of the condition my grandma is in(and me being exposed to it 24/7). I did not notice that coffee's effects were increased. I had to increase mucuna pruriens seed powder to double of my normal dose for uridine to have positive effects. This is with 300mg/twice a day subl. UMP. Increasing uridine to 900-1200mg did only have short lived additional benefits that could not be reproduced. Most effects are subtle, and while I contribute them to uridine, I have at least added artichoke extract regularly at about the same time - but I doubt its responsible for those effects.

Also, just increasing mucuna didn't have the same effects.

I am looking forward to adding 1-2g of cdp choline/day to the mix. I had positive effects with 1g, prior to uridine (increased focus, decreased emotional problems).

So far I am satisfied with the results and look forward to long term regenerative effects(Ex long term depression sufferer here)

Can anyone recommend other supplements that work regenerative on the brain and make sense to take together with uridine (work through different pathways or synergistic. Regenerative factors for example)?

#1927 MrHappy

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

I do not really understand why gpc-choline is preferred to cdp choline.
...
Can anyone recommend other supplements that work regenerative on the brain and make sense to take together with uridine (work through different pathways or synergistic. Regenerative factors for example)?


Both work well for me, personally.. but alpha-gpc had extra benefits, such as increasing human growth hormone in response to exercise.. I also like CDP.

I would just make sure you are taking the complete stack and happily enjoy yourself. You'll keep improving. :)

#1928 Judd Crane

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

Are there any other supplements that can improve vision like uridine?

#1929 Pirate

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:59 AM

Is it a given this uridine competing with caffeine thing? I didn't realise, and I've been takin both together in the mornings.
100-200mg caffiene an 250mg Ump.

I've only been taking 1 dose of uridine a day so far.

I haven't noticed any caffeine or stim boosting effects.

#1930 BioFreak

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

Is it a given this uridine competing with caffeine thing? I didn't realise, and I've been takin both together in the mornings.
100-200mg caffiene an 250mg Ump.

I've only been taking 1 dose of uridine a day so far.

I haven't noticed any caffeine or stim boosting effects.


Me neither. I suppose caffeine can be especially a problem if it depletes neurotransmitters, making uridine less effective?

And if uridine uses some of the same receptors that caffeine uses, it would not be important which molecule activates them, as long as they get activated, right? (assuming uridine and caffeine have the same strength upon those receptors)

Edited by BioFreak, 20 April 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#1931 killshot

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

How critical is the choline, lately I've been skipping it and feeling very stable mood wise. Does the stack lose any of the healing benefits and do I have to worry about depletion of choline?

#1932 BioFreak

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

I guess you might lose some of the regenerative effects, because choline is being used as building block for cells too. If you want regeneration, you do not only want to kickstart the process, but provide all building blocks necessary so you do not limit it by some sort of deficiency.

#1933 Renegade

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

You got it from the link I put up? If so, they're capsules, so you just split them open and dissolved them in water or something?


Yes I purchased from the link you put up. I emptied half the capsule and took the rest. When I decide to take the other half, I will probably dissolve in water of just take is straight and wash it down with some water. I can't see it making much difference as long as it gets in your body???

#1934 kimrick

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:49 PM

The following is my working model, until something better appears. My disclosed sources are not connected to me in any way except by purchase.

I take the following first thing in the morning:

480 mg DHA - [four Omega-3 Fish Oil caps, 120 mg DHA each] - (swansonvitamins.com #SW1253)
500 mg Cognizin Citicoline - (swansonvitamins.com #SWU246)

I wait 15-30 minutes for them to dissolve and become bioavailable, then I take:

300 mg UMP Enhanced Sublingual Powder - (superiornutraceuticals.com),
weighed on an AMW-100 .01g scale - (amazon.com, < $10.00). 1/8 tsp is effectively 300 mg.

Then eat nothing for 15 - 30 minutes or until UMP is assimilated. That's it.

I had been taking CR TAU + alpha GPC + dha for several weeks. Nothing at all. Then I replaced alpha GPC with the Citicoline and 2 - 25 mg caps CR Ltd oral TAU with the sublingual UMP. After 10 days I started to become aware, at last, that the uridine + choline + dha studies weren't just empirical abstracts but really apply in the wild, so to speak. The truth is always in the details, no? This works, at least for me. I would not go back to alpha GPC and oral TAU.

The most expensive component is, easily, the citicoline. Anyone know of a bulk powder source?

I'm very grateful to longecity.com for everything everybody has shared with me. Thank you.



I've increased the UMP to ~600 mg from ~300 mg. Will report any positive or negative results.

#1935 chris106

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

Posted Imagekimrich, on 18 April 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

The most expensive component is, easily, the citicoline. Anyone know of a bulk powder source?


Intellimeds and Nootropics.EU both sell CDP in Bulk, but since you live in the US, I don't know if shipping costs and time might be a factor...
I've also ordered Bulk from an ebay supplier called Focus supplements. It's really cheap, but I'm not sure if it's the real deal, will have to order from other sources, to be able to draw a comparisson first, I guess.

Anyways, since you directly asked for sources, I guess it's ok if I post the links:

http://www.intellime...ucts.asp?ID=108

http://nootropics.eu/CDP-Choline.html

http://www.ebay.de/i...=item2328f80732

#1936 Renegade

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:40 PM

Further to my above posts, uridine at 150mg UMP dose seems to have a positive effect for the first couple of hours, the brain fog and irritation sets in. Any idea and anyone have similar experiences? Thanks

#1937 kimrick

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:47 AM

And, I began taking 1000 mg Lion's Mane Mushroom (swansonvitamins.com # SW1096) with the Citicholine and DHA.
I'll report any pertinent observations about that, too.

So, now the stack is:

480 mg DHA
500 mg Citicholine
1000 mg Lion's Mane Mushroom

wait 15 - 30 minutes,

600 mg subl UMP

**********************

#1938 BioFreak

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 08:23 AM

Interesting case study: I've been detoxing a bit from possible heavy metal / halogen intoxication over the last days, and now when I take the uridine stack, ciltep stack, noopept, and coffee, I am definitely overstimulated, while the effects are much better (especially on mood, but also on brain fog, and general brain functions)

makes me wonder how many non-responders(of any nootropic) simply do not respond because of a possible halogen/heavy metal overload.

Edited by BioFreak, 26 April 2013 - 08:25 AM.


#1939 health_nutty

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

Interesting case study: I've been detoxing a bit from possible heavy metal / halogen intoxication over the last days, and now when I take the uridine stack, ciltep stack, noopept, and coffee, I am definitely overstimulated, while the effects are much better (especially on mood, but also on brain fog, and general brain functions)

makes me wonder how many non-responders(of any nootropic) simply do not respond because of a possible halogen/heavy metal overload.


What is your detox protocol?

#1940 BioFreak

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

What is your detox protocol?


If there is an acute intoxication (meaning the stuff is in the blood, especially halogens), salt loading. It makes the kidney excrete more halogens, and hopefully also heavy metals.
basically 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of salt (preferably an unprocessed one, and certainly one without added fluoride!!) in 1/2 glass of water, drink it, and drink 2-3 glasses of pure water right afterwards. Wait 30-60minutes, and if urination does not start, repeat. Do this for no longer then a week in a row, and it is highly recommended to also supplement with potassium in this time, and to eat foods high in it (like bananas). For signs of acute intoxication, google it for the halogen or heavy metal you suspect to be intoxicated with. The symptoms however are leaned more torwards heavy intoxication, so if you just have a mild one, you should not have the more severe side effects, of course. A heavy one would be if you inhaled a lot of the stuff, drank it in a short period of time etc... and then it would time to seek an emergency room and not to experiment at home. ;)

For me, seeable side effects from acute low intoxication include pimples on the forearm and neck. Many of those can not be removed by pressing on them. After I have done 1-3 days of salt loading they disappear quickly, while otherwise they simply stay there for weeks or months. That usually occurs only after taking a lot of iodine, and the sceptics will say that this is not heavy metals or halogens but iodine itself. This may surely be possible, if the dose is too high, however, after each of those cylces (iodine, intoxication, salt loading) I feel better then before a cycle, this should not be possible if it was because of the iodine. Also, iodines halflife is short, after 24hours almost everything has been excreted in the urine, while bromide for example has a halflife of 20hours, meaning it can take days to be excreted, time, where it can also enter the cell and cause chronic intoxication. It is more likely that it is not iodine causing these pimples for me, because if left untreated(salt loading) they can stay there for weeks, even months. And with iodine and salt loading I had some of the best feeling periods of my life. Note that around 2010 bromide was still allowed to be added to food in the USA(don't know if it still is) so a slow chronic intoxication seems to be possible esp. for americans(mountain dew anyone?).

If there is a chronic intoxication, and with that I mean that halogens and heavy metals are already incorporated into the cells, they will be undetectable in the bloodstream / urine until they are pushed out of the cell and the side effects will be different while still in the cell, more subtile. To do that, I found high dose iodine useful, and I am referring to Abrahams studies. But they are all of small sample size, and high dose iodine is somewhat controversial. In addition, you have to take selenium at the same time, to keep your thyroid safe, and since iodine is capable of forcing halogens and heavy metals out of the cells into the blood stream, you may experience acute intoxication symptoms - thats where the salt loading comes in. I wanted to discuss this in detail on the forums, but its a lot of work and I did not have the time yet. And the evidence comes from a relatively small circle of md's, with a lot of anectodal and historical evidence to back it up, but no large double blinded studies.

My experiences with it (since around 2009/2010) have been positive so far though.

I don't want to get ot in this thread so I better stop now.

#1941 peakplasma

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:47 AM

I don't want to get ot in this thread so I better stop now.

I'm very interested. Would you please start a new thread and get into more detail?

#1942 DamnedOwl

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

I don't want to get ot in this thread so I better stop now.

I'm very interested. Would you please start a new thread and get into more detail?


I second that.

#1943 BioFreak

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:39 PM

Alright, I'll see to it that I'll get a thread started in the near future.

#1944 ChemCycler

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:09 AM

The following is my working model, until something better appears. My disclosed sources are not connected to me in any way except by purchase.

I take the following first thing in the morning:

480 mg DHA - [four Omega-3 Fish Oil caps, 120 mg DHA each] - (swansonvitamins.com #SW1253)
500 mg Cognizin Citicoline - (swansonvitamins.com #SWU246)

I wait 15-30 minutes for them to dissolve and become bioavailable, then I take:

300 mg UMP Enhanced Sublingual Powder - (superiornutraceuticals.com),
weighed on an AMW-100 .01g scale - (amazon.com, < $10.00). 1/8 tsp is effectively 300 mg.

Then eat nothing for 15 - 30 minutes or until UMP is assimilated. That's it.

I had been taking CR TAU + alpha GPC + dha for several weeks. Nothing at all. Then I replaced alpha GPC with the Citicoline and 2 - 25 mg caps CR Ltd oral TAU with the sublingual UMP. After 10 days I started to become aware, at last, that the uridine + choline + dha studies weren't just empirical abstracts but really apply in the wild, so to speak. The truth is always in the details, no? This works, at least for me. I would not go back to alpha GPC and oral TAU.

The most expensive component is, easily, the citicoline. Anyone know of a bulk powder source?

I'm very grateful to longecity.com for everything everybody has shared with me. Thank you.


How long have you been following your current protocol?

#1945 flurr

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:20 PM

Been recieving pretty nice results from this protocol, my mood is definitely lifted, more clearheaded, better working memory etc. However, im currently experiencing more anxiety than im used to. This is somewhat the base problem im trying to ease/solve, in particular - its a form of social anxiety and i feel this has been somewhat stronger last couple of days. Like a constant feeling of nervousness/pressure. Some mood swings has also occured but not that bad really. Anyone else experienced this kind of effects with Uridine protocol?

As i know that caffeine interacts with Uridine receptors, i've cut down to 2-3 cups of tea spread through the day (approx 20-30 mg/cup), used to drink the same amount in coffee. Cannot imagine the caffeine being the problem? Also, i dont smoke more than some cigs when going out for party.

Stack right now:

2g fishoil / total of 1080mg EPA and DHA (dont know the exact ratio but more of EPA i think)
Multivitamine with trace minerals such as Kalcium and Magnesium
Magnesium citrate / 150-300 mg
Bacopa (at bedtime) / 500 mg
Sublingual UMP / 100-150 mg twice per day

As for the UMP, i've recently increased the dose to 150 mg sublingual from 100 mg. Maybe this could be the problem, but it doesn't sound very likely as many of you guys take 250-300 mg sublingual. And im usually not that sensitive to supplements. Tried 250 mg some days though, that made me pretty dull emotionally but didnt give me any anxiety.

#1946 Godot

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 03:44 PM

I recently tried this stack again, as I've been experiencing a lot of tiredness and fatigue brought on by stress.

250mg UMP + omega 3s + citicholine

This stack was very effective in improving my stress tolerance. I was sleeping better, feeling more energetic, in a better mood, and mentally sharper. Great!

Only problem was that the stack tanked my libido again. It took about 4 days off of the uridine to start feeling like myself in this respect.

I've never had this problem with any other supplement, and it's a shame because the other effects are great. Ashwaghanda was not helpful in mitigating the effect. What could be the cause of this?

Edited by Godot, 01 May 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#1947 kimrick

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:11 PM

I don't have a detox protocol. Have you been exposed to chemical contaminants?

#1948 Guardian4981

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:49 PM

I recently tried this stack again, as I've been experiencing a lot of tiredness and fatigue brought on by stress.

250mg UMP + omega 3s + citicholine

This stack was very effective in improving my stress tolerance. I was sleeping better, feeling more energetic, in a better mood, and mentally sharper. Great!

Only problem was that the stack tanked my libido again. It took about 4 days off of the uridine to start feeling like myself in this respect.

I've never had this problem with any other supplement, and it's a shame because the other effects are great. Ashwaghanda was not helpful in mitigating the effect. What could be the cause of this?



I have similar experience on the stack.

The libido lowering in particular concerns me and is a quandry. Uridine is touted as modulating dopamine, if libido decreases in some that would imply its lowering dopamine.

Now if one had sky high dopamine I could understand that "modulating" may lower it. But if ones dopamine is clearly low to begin with I would think Uridine should increase it rather then decrease it.

The other option which I am nervous to try is stacking uridine with higher dose tyrosine. Its possible that uridine causes tyrosine depletion especially if one is depressed to begin with, and perhaps adding extra tyrosine may end up raising dopamine above baselines pre uridine.

The effects you felt which are similar to me is indicative of increased serotonin levels, and increased serotonin while beneficial can lower libido, hence why ssris are known for sexual sides.

#1949 Guardian4981

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

Been recieving pretty nice results from this protocol, my mood is definitely lifted, more clearheaded, better working memory etc. However, im currently experiencing more anxiety than im used to. This is somewhat the base problem im trying to ease/solve, in particular - its a form of social anxiety and i feel this has been somewhat stronger last couple of days. Like a constant feeling of nervousness/pressure. Some mood swings has also occured but not that bad really. Anyone else experienced this kind of effects with Uridine protocol?

As i know that caffeine interacts with Uridine receptors, i've cut down to 2-3 cups of tea spread through the day (approx 20-30 mg/cup), used to drink the same amount in coffee. Cannot imagine the caffeine being the problem? Also, i dont smoke more than some cigs when going out for party.

Stack right now:

2g fishoil / total of 1080mg EPA and DHA (dont know the exact ratio but more of EPA i think)
Multivitamine with trace minerals such as Kalcium and Magnesium
Magnesium citrate / 150-300 mg
Bacopa (at bedtime) / 500 mg
Sublingual UMP / 100-150 mg twice per day

As for the UMP, i've recently increased the dose to 150 mg sublingual from 100 mg. Maybe this could be the problem, but it doesn't sound very likely as many of you guys take 250-300 mg sublingual. And im usually not that sensitive to supplements. Tried 250 mg some days though, that made me pretty dull emotionally but didnt give me any anxiety.



There is some speculation bacopa influences 5ht receptors and serotonin, combined with uridine this may be sending your serotonin too high. High serotonin can cause anxiety. This was an issue I had for years as I used to have bad anxiety and would try to treat it with all kinds of known serotonin boosts and often I would get even worse. My anxiety has come way down when I siezed all serotonin boosting compounds and focused a bit on thyroid health with selenium and forskolin.

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#1950 flurr

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

There is some speculation bacopa influences 5ht receptors and serotonin, combined with uridine this may be sending your serotonin too high. High serotonin can cause anxiety. This was an issue I had for years as I used to have bad anxiety and would try to treat it with all kinds of known serotonin boosts and often I would get even worse. My anxiety has come way down when I siezed all serotonin boosting compounds and focused a bit on thyroid health with selenium and forskolin.


I see, so you think i should ditch it? I'm prepared to do so as i've been on it for more than 4 months, and honestly, havn't feel any real difference. Theres been some random memories/stuff popping up sometimes but that could easily happen without it. It doesnt work for me in term of anxiety reduction either. Another reason why i take it is because of the effects on GABA(A?) receptor up-regulation/repair. I've just begun looking into these kind of supplements as i feel my GABA system could be down-regulated (much binge drinking on weekends/phenibut/kava). I've just begun exploring different neurotransmitters and will try to look for things that i lack/potentially unbalanced (dopamine, serotonin, choline, gaba). Also been using Curcumin, Noopept and some racetams sporadically before trying Uridine.

Maybe i should have a "washout" period from the Uridine before continuing? Another thing that i feel from the protocol is very stiff neck, and i dont take any choline at all. I have no idea about thyroid health, but looks interesting, will look it up.

Edited by flurr, 02 May 2013 - 04:22 PM.






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