2844 replies to this topic

[Jacob Norris]

Alright thank you Mr Happy!

[arboles]

Does the body develop a tolerance for uridine ? Also , tau dosage ? Is Starting with 25mg okay or too little ? What is the most effective tau dose ? How many times per day

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Jacob Norris]

Ooh, good questions. ^

[chemicalambrosia]

Does the body develop a tolerance for uridine ? Also , tau dosage ? Is Starting with 25mg okay or too little ? What is the most effective tau dose ? How many times per day

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

As far as tolerance I don't know how well it has been studied in that regard, but I would say it is kind of like asking if there is tolerance to good nutrition. Is there tolerance to good nutrition? In general I'd say no, but as you get used to your higher baseline of health and well being it might be harder to realize it is working... even though it is definitely still working there in the background.

Many of us have gotten great effects from UMP and I think that is what most of the studies used. I would try that instead of tau.
My regimen:
250mg UMP powder from Superior Nutraceuticals(not from a pill) sublingually(under the tongue) in the morning, with a Jarrow max DHA pill, a Jarrow 250mg CDP choline pill, and a swig of cod liver oil(about a teaspoon of the stuff from vitacost brand). I also take a multi-vitamin, one of these per day(actually have caps, and will switch to 1/2 a tablet in the future): ( http://www.lef.org/V...ay-Tablets.html )

This works quite well for me...

[Absent]

I've been on Uridine 200-500mg sublingually for a week, and I wouldn't say there is a tolerance that has developed. If anything a reverse tolerance. Uridine makes my focus very sensitive and keen and my thoughts clear and organized. This effect seems to be strengthening and accumulating and even stays on days when I haven't yet dosed. It also provides a slight stimulating effect when I dose, but the long-term effect is much more noticable.

[Jacob Norris]

I understand that most people prefer taking Uridine sublingually, but I'd like to pill it.

200-500mg seems to be around the recommended dose, I've been noticing 300mg sublingually and orally more often.

With that being said, why is sublingually prefered over oral ingestion?
And what mg would you recommend for pilling?
I know this has probably already been addressed, but I'm really curious in your reasonings with Uridine supplementation.

and Thank you guys! This is definitely one of my favorite threads on Longecity.

Edited by Jacob Norris, 30 November 2013 - 11:58 PM.

[arboles]

Does the body develop a tolerance for uridine ? Also , tau dosage ? Is Starting with 25mg okay or too little ? What is the most effective tau dose ? How many times per day

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

As far as tolerance I don't know how well it has been studied in that regard, but I would say it is kind of like asking if there is tolerance to good nutrition. Is there tolerance to good nutrition? In general I'd say no, but as you get used to your higher baseline of health and well being it might be harder to realize it is working... even though it is definitely still working there in the background.

Many of us have gotten great effects from UMP and I think that is what most of the studies used. I would try that instead of tau.
My regimen:
250mg UMP powder from Superior Nutraceuticals(not from a pill) sublingually(under the tongue) in the morning, with a Jarrow max DHA pill, a Jarrow 250mg CDP choline pill, and a swig of cod liver oil(about a teaspoon of the stuff from vitacost brand). I also take a multi-vitamin, one of these per day(actually have caps, and will switch to 1/2 a tablet in the future): ( http://www.lef.org/V...ay-Tablets.html )

This works quite well for me...

Thanks for the info. I've already purchased tau, but will try ump when its finished! So having said that any suggestions on tau recommended dosage would be appreciated from anyone who can provide this. Is 25mg too little ? What is the suggested amount? I've read on this thread people take 100mg of tau. Is that on the high range ? Is it better to take once or multiple time per day?

In reply to another person asking comparison of ump sublingual vs oral . I would assume the benefit of the former is quicker response, and lower required dosage -saving money.

Edit : since tau is supposed to be around 7x ump. I am assuming 7x25mg tau = 175mg ump ?

So the dose of tau is probably 50mg? Twice per day?

Edited by arboles, 01 December 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[mrd1]

There is zero evidence to support "cycling" uridine when used in a uridine+alpha GPC+DHA stack. This is because, if you lack any of these you will hit a limiting factor in phospholipid production. If you stop taking uridine your body will not be able to maximize its phospholipid production regardless of what other factors you add because it is limited by not having uridine.


Now one can still claim that "I stopped Uridine and noticed no difference" However, that is just because it is subjective.

Objectively Uridine is needed to maximize phophsolipid production in the brain.

If we believe maximizing phospholipid production in the brain provides a nootropic effect
Than, yes one must NOT cycle any of these.

At less, one doesn't believe the phospholipid production leads to a nootropic event
or. they just don't care too much about the predicted benefits.

At least, this is my personal opinion. obviously biased from my consumption of the chemicals.

[mrd1]

"Effects of DHA on brain CDP-choline or CDP-ethanolamine levels. Groups of 8 gerbils received either a control or a UMP-containing (0.5%) diet and, by gavage, DHA (300 mg/kg; in a vehicle of 5% gum Arabic solution)" Synaptic proteins and phospholipids are increased in gerbil brain by administering uridine plus docosahexaenoic acid orally

Based on this I would use 300mg/kg of DHA 0.025-0.05 of the diet since I can't quite make you if they mean 0.5% per choline and uridine or total. Assuming a 175 pound person eating 2000 cal and mg/kg divided by 6 or 10. (not perfect going by rats not familiar with gerbils.

2350-4,000mg DHA/ day
750-1,500 mg Uridine
750-1,500 mg Alpha GPC

Based on this I personally use
3,000-4,000mg DHA/ Day (w/ 3-4,000mg EPA)
750mg Uridine
1,500mg Alpha GPC

I should note I added Acetyl L Carnitine in a 1:1 Alpha GPC:ALCAR ratio so
+1,500mg Acetyl L Carnitine (*Note this is NOT used in the referenced study*)

[Absent]

mrd1,

Do you use UMP orally or sublingually? If you use it sublingually you shouldn't need a dose that large, though, it can't hurt.

[csrpj]

For me -- I've noticed that UMP produces a sharper, but shorter-lasting effect, and is more subject. The TAU may be more subtle, but when I take it the effects feels more "ingrained" into my day-to-day life. Overall, based on a couple trials, I prefer TAU. I noticed pretty much everyone here recommends UMP, which is as it should be given what appears to be a greater efficacy for the average person. I'm just curious if anybody else has a preference for TAU, and why.

[mrd1]

I take my uridine orally to replicate the research as accurately as possible. Uridine may be absorbed sublingually but I am not comfortable with ancedotes. I mean it probably does but I have no issues with paying like .50 cents a day extra to guarantee I replicate the research to a T.

I would not even bother trying to notice Uridine because it is unlikely youll be able to discriminate levels of phospholipid levels. Most things go on out of your conscious awareness.

[Q did it!]

Just throwing this out there http://www.longecity...ls/#entry626643. I have been on this stack for nearly two months and must say it is great (experiencing many of the positives commonly listed here) the only problem I have had is wound healing same stated by Siro in the link above using fish oil (noted the same slowed healing when on plant derived Omega 3's).

Might Max DHA (Jarrows) be a better alternative with wound healing in mind, due to the lower EPA ratio? I am curious about cycling my fish oil with a 3:1 duration ratio (3w on 1w off) to allow the body to heal faster/normally.

My main question is how do we work around of with the immunosuppressive effects of Omega 3 Oils.


Back to the recent topic might it be a good idea to take both TAU & UMP; Long and Short duration of noticeable* effects, anyone tried this? I have only UMP at the moment and its "noticeable" effects seem to ware off fairly quickly in the day but to make up for this I found that dosing 50-75mg 2-3x daily does well to fix this.

[mrd1]

There is not sufficient evidence at this time to draw any conclusions that fish oil will have any meaningful effect on the immunity in member of a healthy population even in high doses. Furthermore if the omega 3:6 ratio theory of adding omega 3s "supressing" the immune system was true then America would be in tip top shape. Meanwhile, endless evidence support getting your omega 3 : omega 6 ratio to as close to 1:1 as possible.

Edited by mrd1, 01 December 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[arboles]

For me -- I've noticed that UMP produces a sharper, but shorter-lasting effect, and is more subject. The TAU may be more subtle, but when I take it the effects feels more "ingrained" into my day-to-day life. Overall, based on a couple trials, I prefer TAU. I noticed pretty much everyone here recommends UMP, which is as it should be given what appears to be a greater efficacy for the average person. I'm just curious if anybody else has a preference for TAU, and why.

Thanks for the info. Have you tried taking multiple smaller doses of ump instead of one large dose? What's your tau dose? In your experience what has been most effective tau dose? Once a day or split up?

[sparkk51]

Why are people reporting different effects between UMP and TAU? I thought the only difference is in bioavailability of uridine.

[Absent]

I take my uridine orally to replicate the research as accurately as possible. Uridine may be absorbed sublingually but I am not comfortable with ancedotes. I mean it probably does but I have no issues with paying like .50 cents a day extra to guarantee I replicate the research to a T.

I would not even bother trying to notice Uridine because it is unlikely youll be able to discriminate levels of phospholipid levels. Most things go on out of your conscious awareness.

Try it. Uridine is practically 500% more efficient sublingually. You can feel is immediately versus it can take days to accumulate orally.

[formergenius]

Can anyone confirm whether Jarrow UMP disodium is good for these purposes? Seems to be the easiest available.

[Absent]

formergenius,

That is the kind I use, well not Jarrow, but UMP disodium. It works great for me

[formergenius]

Thanks. Placed an order.

[Jacob Norris]

Yes, I'm wondering about splitting up this stack throughout the day as well. Is this stack more effective taking 1 large dose a day, or splitting the dose up into 2 or more times throughout the day?

[sparkk51]

Started back on this stack 2 days ago (without choline), and I am actually getting positive results. However, I had to down 9 fish oil capsules to get the recommended dose of DHA...

Can anyone tell me a high quality fish oil product that's high in DHA?

thanks, I would look through the thread if I had a filtered search bar.

[hephaestus]

I take this stuff:
http://www.amazon.co...rigold fish oil

Also, you can search the thread using google:
https://www.google.c...e-dha/ fish oil

[Adaptogen]

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B003O1U77I

[sparkk51]

Thanks guys

[arboles]

I've noticed I have started getting a few pimples on my face since starting tau 25mg per day. Anyone else notice this ?

[mrd1]

"Effects of DHA on brain CDP-choline or CDP-ethanolamine levels. Groups of 8 gerbils received either a control or a UMP-containing (0.5%) diet and, by gavage, DHA (300 mg/kg; in a vehicle of 5% gum Arabic solution)" Synaptic proteins and phospholipids are increased in gerbil brain by administering uridine plus docosahexaenoic acid orally

This seems to be the most important study I have found supporting this cocktail.

Based on this, since, it was added to their food and they probably don't eat only one meal a day. Than, it shouldn't matter if you split it up.

Also, I should note that while we are debating about kinds of uridine technically they didn't use any pure uridine just the uridine in CDP choline which is a prodrug for uridine and choline.

So, if you are on a tight budget, other than some anecdotal reports, you may not need to add uridine if you use cdp choline

cytidine diphosphate choline to my knowledge (CDP choline) converts to cytidine and choline and cytidine converts into uridine.

[BioFreak]

Is there any importance to timing the stack's substances?

I.e. supplement with o3 and choline, and 1/2 hour later sublingual ump?

What about taking all fishoil and choline in the morning, but ump in the morning and evening? Would the evening ump dose be a waste of money?

[mrd1]

Yes kinda, timing is important because you need to have all three present for the maximum increase in phospholipids because missing any would limit or basically blockade it from reaching its maximum

So if you take uridine and choline but don't have DHA in your system sufficiently your results will be less than if you have all three

It is the COCKTAIL that produces the massive effect.

However, other than that no. Take all three at once in as many doses as you want because they added it to feed. Hence, you should theoretically be able to do even morning lunch and dinner.

BUT, you may get fishy burps if you try to down a bunch of fish oil at once.

Also, when CDP choline is used in actual disease the common dosing is thrice daily.

[sparkk51]

I took a supplement with 900 mg DHA and some theanine in stead of fish oil. Was this overkill? I had some very bad brain fog and was definitely feeling the effect I had gotten the day before.