2844 replies to this topic

[BCho86]

My Uridine from SN is probably halfway between powdered sugar and white/table sugar... Can you detect a difference in their taste? Are you sensitive enough to uridine to detect a difference in efficacy?

Also, just wanted to pop in to say that UMP definitely makes caffeine very unpleasant for me. I was already very sensitive to the negative effects of caffeine and generally avoided coffee, but was fine with lightly caffeinated beverages/decaf coffee. I slipped up and drank a 600ml bottle of Coke earlier and am now experiencing far more head pressure, brain fog, and anxiety than I would've normally.

I can definitely taste a difference, the Uridine I received from ND tastes very similar to CDP-CHOLINE (chemical like taste) and nowhere near the salt like taste SN Uridine delivers.

I messaged ND through reddit for a COA and they immediately messaged me back a COA (http://i.imgur.com/zbZPvpq.jpg)

I cannot really describe the efficacy of the ND Uridine, but it seems to work. If anyone else has bought Uridine from ND please input your experience.

Mr.Happy are you still adding noopept to your Uridine regimen? If you don't mind me asking, as of now, what is current nootropic regimen?

[penisbreath]

Just a couple of questions:

1. Is Uridine's purported NMDA antagonism a significant part of its therapeutic benefits? Just wondering because NMDA antagonism traditionally doesn't sit well with me.

2. Can anyone speculate whether Uridine might be helpful for unresolved akathisia-like symptoms after discontinuing a drug? I thought it's dopamine modulation might be of relevance here.

Thanks

[arboles]

What supplements should (are synergistic), shouldn't be taken alongside the uridine stack (uridine, choline, dha), or have no effect?

What principals should be followed in determining whether a supplement can be taken alongside this stack?

for example, alcar, ginsen, ginkgo, racetams, lion's mane mushroom, Ashwagandha, curcumin, pqq, coq10. any others that should or shouldn't be taken with uridine stack?

[Droplet33]

Well, i wouldn't mix the recommanded dosage of uridine/DHA (250-300mg sub lingual of UMP) with CILTEP unless you reduced uridine to half the dose (150mg UMP).

[happy santa]

I have taken rhodiola rosea for little over a week now, and I must say that it personally synergizes really well with the uridine stack!

I had problems with depersonalization/brain fog, anhedonia, lack of motivation and drive (i.e dopamine deficieny).
I have taken uridine UMP 2 times daily (together with 5000 ui vitamin d, 300 mg magnesium, fish oil, vitamin b-complex, 2400 mg lecithin) for little over 1 month now.

I feel the uridine stack has definately helped, and my libido and drive is slowly but steady building up!

I still have had issues dealing with anxiety and stress, which I feel the uridine did not help tackle with too much.

I therefore started dosing rhodiola rosea (which is known for especially reducing cortisol levels, along with having mao-i properties and increasing endorphins). I tried it before and it works wonderfully well against anxiety for me and almost blunts your stress response.
I take 'arctic root' 155 mg daily (5 days on 2 days off).
As it turned out, it worked well with the uridine stack as well

I should also mention these 2 important factors that also played a crucial role in reducing my anxiety:
*I started exercising regularly
*I started trying to practice mindfulness meditation in my daily life.


So if anyone feels like uridine isn't helping them with lowering their anxiety/high levels of cortisol, maybe rhodiola rosea is worth a shot, at least it worked well for me together with uridine


Sidenote: I also out of curiosity, tried kanna (having ssri-properties) together with uridine, on my day-off rhodiola rosea. It did not work too well. Although I felt the warm fuzzy feeling and the other pleasent effects you would expect from kanna, it made me feel dizzy, disoriented, and gave me a slight headache. This, I would never feel when I was taking kanna alone daily. I'm thinking it might have been the mao-i/ssri interaction between kanna and rhodiola rosea (even though I had not taken rhodiola rosea in 3 days).

Edited by happy santa, 03 February 2014 - 11:40 PM.

[penisbreath]

Just to follow up:

I took 250mg of Jarrow's UMP today, dissolving it in a glass of water and drinking it after lunch.

I'm trying to treat some neurological issues (akathisia) and noticed that it improved my ability to sit still (e.g. I could watch a 30-min television show, which is otherwise impossible).

However, for about 30-60 minutes after drinking it, I felt uncomfortably stimulated -- muscle tension, more agitated etc. Then it settled down into a kind of pleasant fogginess/sleepiness, which lasted for an hour. And now, 4 hours later, I'm back to feeling tense.

It wasn't placebo, because the restlessness improved. But does my reaction indicate the dose might be too high? I don't do well on NMDA antagonists, but was really hoping Uridine might be tolerable anyway.

Should I try taking the 250mg in the capsule? Or tip the powder out and try a lower dose?

[ken_shiro]

Hi.
Can I use alpha gpc and not citicholine with this stack?

Sometimes, when I take citicholine I have a headache.

Edited by ken_shiro, 06 February 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[mrd1]

Hey guys Id just like to propose perhaps you guys don't need to take uridine at all because if you take cdp choline cytidine diphosphate-choline then it is a prodrug for both cytidine and choline and is a prodrug therefore, for both choline and uridine in the brain as the cytidine gets converted to uridine.

[andyr300]

I've been taking this combo for about a week, but I notice the same thing that happens when I take other brands of fish oil: immense drowsiness that knocks me out within 2 to 3 hours after taking it, for at least an hour or two. I'm taking Jarrow's Max DHA. I've skimmed the thread a couple of weeks ago before and recognized others had the same reaction. Was there any specific cause for this reaction?

I still do notice more focus upon its half-life combined with the others. It's somewhat subtle but noticeable. Off of it's half life, it knocks me on my feet.

[happy santa]

I have a question:,
Would it be effective to combine uridine with GABA-stimulating supplements? I was thinking of adding ashwaganda+bacopa to the stack. ashwaganhda has GABA-mimicking properties, and bacopa acts as GABA-receptor upregulator. I'm not the best at reading scientific reports, but I came across this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2866953

Does this mean this will probably not be an effective stack?

Edited by happy santa, 07 February 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[happy santa]

Hi.
Can I use alpha gpc and not citicholine with this stack?

Sometimes, when I take citicholine I have a headache.

Yes. Alpha-gpc and citicholine are supposed to be the most superior alternatives if one wants to supplement with choline. So alpha-gpc would work as well. Though, I believe the main importance is that one should ingest some sort choline in the right amount, in what form/what source the choline is from is not the most important.
For example I take lecithin as choline source, which contains approx. 10 % choline, although it's supposedly not the best form of choline source.

[cgriffin]

I had a few questions that I havn't seen an answer to yet that hopefully someone can help answer.

Is there a recommended way to cycle this stack? At the present time I have a 60 pill bottle of uridine and cdp-choline. When I run out should I take a break for 2 months then start up again or do you guys plan on taking this forever?

My second question is regarding caffeine. It says to cut down/ eliminate it from your diet. What I typically drink is 1 cup of coffee in the morning and then 3 cups of green team throughout the day. I'd estimate ~200mg a day. Is this too much and what is the negative result of taking too much? I believe MrHappy referened an article but I have difficulty understanding these medical reports.

Thanks!

[happy santa]

When I run out should I take a break for 2 months then start up again or do you guys plan on taking this forever?

I wonder this too. Are everyone planning on taking this indefinately? Because, other than the cognitive enhancements etc. I am mostly interested in it because of its effect on the dopamine-system.

I know I probably don't have the same amount of knowledge in neurology/biochemistry as many other good members here on the forum so correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

I know uridine is excellent for re-normalizing your body's natural dopamine receptor density, but once that "threshold" would've been reached, would there be any benefit from continue taking uridine (for its dopamine-related benefits)?

Because as far as I understand, even if we let's say, would produce an "excessive" amount of dopamine receptors (above threshold) due to a continous dosing of uridine, wouldn't that excessive amount of dopamine receptors go back to normal level, once you would stop taking the uridine, due to homeostasis.

My question is: how long time would it "typically" take until your dopamine receptors are rebalanced?
The reason I am asking this, is because I'm planning on buying a full year's supply of uridine, and I wonder if I will continue to get the benefit of upregulating the dopamine receptors, even after a year would've passed.

I hope this was easy to understand Thank you

[j87]

How much uridine is in RNA? I am confused on how many RNA capsules to take.

[Jeoshua]

The Uridine found in RNA caplets is not bioavailable, and will be soaked up by the gut before they ever get into your body. Uridine Monophosphate (UMP) alone is the chemical this thread is talking about, and the one you should be looking to supplement.

RNA supplements are likely to just make you tired.

[pbandy1]

Mind Nutrition is coming out with a product called Ultracholine, looks inspired by this thread to be honest. It will have:

B6 / B12
CDP Choline
Alpha GPC
Uridine Monophosphate
Huperzine-A
DHA extract

[MrHappy]

Mind Nutrition is coming out with a product called Ultracholine, looks inspired by this thread to be honest. It will have:

B6 / B12
CDP Choline
Alpha GPC
Uridine Monophosphate
Huperzine-A
DHA extract

Hmm.. looks like you'd still need a good multivitamin with it - no folate, no trace minerals.

It's also a little hard to tailor your individual dose levels with compounds like this..

[Godof Smallthings]

2 choline sources AND huperzine A... makes me go 'hmm'.

[Jeoshua]

Yeah that Ultracholine would be cool if it got rid of Hup-A and A-GPC. Plus "Ultra Choline" is already a thing made by Tyson Nutraceiticals.

[Jacob Norris]

That Ultracholine is stupid as shit.

[ken_shiro]

1) What happen if I don't take fish oil?
What problem can I have?


2)What happen if I take 700mg DHA and 1100mg EPA?
Can I have any problem with this big amount of EPA?

PS. I use UMP stack for learning.

[eon]

From what I understand when taking RNA, one must take DNA in equal amount as well, which is what my supplement has both. I don't feel tired, not that I noticed yet.

RNA supplements are likely to just make you tired.

[happy santa]

When I run out should I take a break for 2 months then start up again or do you guys plan on taking this forever?

I wonder this too. Are everyone planning on taking this indefinately?
My question is: how long time would it "typically" take until your dopamine receptors are rebalanced?
The reason I am asking this, is because I'm planning on buying a full year's supply of uridine, and I wonder if I will continue to get the benefit of upregulating the dopamine receptors, even after a year would've passed.

I hope this was easy to understand Thank you

bump. I think alot of other people would benefit from getting an answer to this

[greyarate]

I've been taking this combo for about a week, but I notice the same thing that happens when I take other brands of fish oil: immense drowsiness that knocks me out within 2 to 3 hours after taking it, for at least an hour or two. I'm taking Jarrow's Max DHA. I've skimmed the thread a couple of weeks ago before and recognized others had the same reaction. Was there any specific cause for this reaction?

I still do notice more focus upon its half-life combined with the others. It's somewhat subtle but noticeable. Off of it's half life, it knocks me on my feet.

I'm experiencing something similar at the moment. Funny thing is that I used to take this stack regularly about 9 months ago with no tiredness issues. I did stop after exams finished up and at the time I also felt that the stack wasn't having much of an effect anymore.

Haven't really used any nootropics regularly since then, just stuff like Vit.D and Omega 3.

Started back on this in the last few days for various reasons but it's making me very tired during the day! I also had a strange effect yesterday after taking 250mg UMP Sublingual, got very very depressed on the way into work, like I know I had a feeling of shear dread on my face. Luckily that subsided after about an hour. Switched to Oral today to see if that helps

Morning:
3 x Jarrow Max DHA
1 x Jarrow B Right
1 x Jarrow Uridine
1 x 5000iu D3
1 x 400iu Vit E

All on an empty stomach. Going to try some elimination from tomorrow to figure out which item is causing the drowsiness. Up to now I was regularly taking 1xDHA,D3,VitE before introducing B Complex, Uridine and extra DHA so it's one of the last 3.

[happy santa]

I've been taking this combo for about a week, but I notice the same thing that happens when I take other brands of fish oil: immense drowsiness that knocks me out within 2 to 3 hours after taking it, for at least an hour or two. I'm taking Jarrow's Max DHA. I've skimmed the thread a couple of weeks ago before and recognized others had the same reaction. Was there any specific cause for this reaction?

I still do notice more focus upon its half-life combined with the others. It's somewhat subtle but noticeable. Off of it's half life, it knocks me on my feet.

I'm experiencing something similar at the moment. Funny thing is that I used to take this stack regularly about 9 months ago with no tiredness issues. I did stop after exams finished up and at the time I also felt that the stack wasn't having much of an effect anymore.

Haven't really used any nootropics regularly since then, just stuff like Vit.D and Omega 3.

Started back on this in the last few days for various reasons but it's making me very tired during the day! I also had a strange effect yesterday after taking 250mg UMP Sublingual, got very very depressed on the way into work, like I know I had a feeling of shear dread on my face. Luckily that subsided after about an hour. Switched to Oral today to see if that helps

Morning:
3 x Jarrow Max DHA
1 x Jarrow B Right
1 x Jarrow Uridine
1 x 5000iu D3
1 x 400iu Vit E

All on an empty stomach. Going to try some elimination from tomorrow to figure out which item is causing the drowsiness. Up to now I was regularly taking 1xDHA,D3,VitE before introducing B Complex, Uridine and extra DHA so it's one of the last 3.

Hey there, it's most probably the vitamin b-complex. I experienced the same thing as you, drowsy/sleepy, just wanted to lay down and take a nap. I did some research and it turns out that vitamin b12 in the form of -cyanocobalamin- (the cheap form of vit b12) causes sleepiness in some people. Sure enough, when I eliminated vitamin b-complex from my day-routine with uridine I didn't get sleepy anymore. So I make sure to take it at night-time ever since.

[Jeoshua]

Hey there, it's most probably the vitamin b-complex. I experienced the same thing as you, drowsy/sleepy, just wanted to lay down and take a nap. I did some research and it turns out that vitamin b12 in the form of -cyanocobalamin- (the cheap form of vit b12) causes sleepiness in some people. Sure enough, when I eliminated vitamin b-complex from my day-routine with uridine I didn't get sleepy anymore. So I make sure to take it at night-time ever since.

This dovetails nicely into something that I have come to realize about B vitamins, and supplements in general. The B vitamins are grouped together because they are all involved in enzymatic pathways for creating the various neurotransmitters, signalling chemicals, and energy storage systems of the body. They all have active and passive forms, and whether they are activated or not changes how they work.

In other words, taking a B12 supplement is a lot like giving your body a bunch of dead batteries to charge up. Ultimately it will not do anything good for you unless supported with other chemicals necessary to activate it. However, take Methyl-B12, and it's like giving your body a bunch of CHARGED batteries to actually use.

And Cyanocobalamin is not actually a fully usable form of the vitamin, and actually has to be converted in the body into B12 (which is actually just Cobalamin in it's inactive form, and Methylcobalamin in the active).


TL;DR Activated B vitamins are the important ones, Food sources are the second best bet in terms of potency, and cheap forms that are found in cheap supplements are not really that useful at all.

Edited by Jeoshua, 19 February 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[greyarate]

Actually the B complex I was using contains the methyl versions for both folate and cobalamin. It's the main reason I bought this one. This isn't my first container of it either, I have used it regularly in the past and don't recall any tiredness issues.



Anyway today I excluded it and did:

3 x Jarrow Max DHA
1 x Jarrow Methyl B12 Lozenge
1 x Jarrow Uridine
1 x 5000iu D3
1 x 400iu Vit E

I didn't get the same level of tiredness throughout the day but eyes were still a bit on the heavy side. Then around 4pm I got very tired indeed. Not entirely sure why. Recovered a bit after some chocolate. I do notice an improved ability to focus etc with the Uridine so I would like to keep it up again. Going to try drop my fish oil dose tomorrow down to 1xJarrow Max DHA to see if that helps.

[MrHappy]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24300434

Polyunsaturated fatty acid associations with dopaminergic indices in major depressive disorder.

AuthorsSublette ME, et al. Show all Journal
Int J Neuropsychopharmacol. 2014 Mar;17(3):383-91. doi: 10.1017/S1461145713001399. Epub 2013 Dec 3.

Affiliation
Abstract
Dopaminergic function is thought to be altered in major depression and, in animal studies, is reduced in omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) deficiency states. Therefore we studied PUFAs and resting prolactin, a marker for dopaminergic tone, and cerebrospinal fluid homovanillic acid (HVA), the chief dopamine metabolite. In medication-free adults (n = 23) with DSM-IV major depressive disorder (MDD), we measured plasma phospholipid levels of omega-3 PUFAs docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), the omega-6 PUFA arachidonic acid (AA), and plasma prolactin levels before and after administration of dl-fenfluramine (FEN). In a subset of patients (n = 14), cerebrospinal fluid levels of HVA and the serotonin metabolite, 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA), were obtained through lumbar puncture. Baseline prolactin was negatively correlated with omega-3 PUFAs (logDHA, F 1,21 = 20.380, p < 0.001; logEPA, F 1,21 = 10.051, p = 0.005) and positively correlated with logAA:DHA (F 1,21 = 15.263, p = 0.001), a measure of omega-6/omega-3 balance. LogDHA was negatively correlated with CSF HVA (Spearman's &rho; = -0.675, p = 0.008) but not 5-HIAA (Spearman's &rho; = -0.143, p = 0.626) after controlling for sex and HVA - 5-HIAA correlation. PUFAs did not predict the magnitude of the FEN-stimulated change in prolactin, considered to be a serotonin effect. The robust relationship of omega-3 PUFAs with dopaminergic but not serotonergic indices suggests that omega-6:omega-3 balance may impact depression pathophysiology through effects on the dopaminergic system.

[MrHappy]

When I run out should I take a break for 2 months then start up again or do you guys plan on taking this forever?

I wonder this too. Are everyone planning on taking this indefinately?
My question is: how long time would it "typically" take until your dopamine receptors are rebalanced?
The reason I am asking this, is because I'm planning on buying a full year's supply of uridine, and I wonder if I will continue to get the benefit of upregulating the dopamine receptors, even after a year would've passed.

I hope this was easy to understand Thank you

bump. I think alot of other people would benefit from getting an answer to this

While a lot of the effects are long-lasting, you still have to deal with the dietary and lifestyle choices that have caused you to be where you were before supplementing. Some people prefer not to (or can't easily) change their lifestyle, so it is easier to continue supplementing the missing micronutrients.

Also, some of the short-term / dose dependent effects like neural blood pressure and dopamine modulation will cease.

[Strangelove]

I tried the stack (without the b-complex) and really gives me some boost in mood, better concentration and stamina! This lasts for some hours, but still is one of the best stacks I have tried! Thanks MrHappy for putting this together!

After some reading I did on this long thread, it seems that most people experience benefits long term. Also I understand that except the immediate benefits members experience, there are also long term additional benefits on brain structure? I started reading the thread last year, looked at it again a month ago and ordered the supplements, I do not remember the details on the long term improvements, anyone care to give a summary?

Uridine to me feels more like a "drug" than a supplement, there are immediate and strong effects that I found suprising. Too much (especially without choline) and give me a mental state of being "the boss" but being somewhat distant emotionally that I do not like it, anyone experienced anything similar?

I saw the reports that this stack loosing effectiveness and it did not surprise me, considering the strong positive effects I have experienced this far. I have tried many things with initial good effects, only to see positives declining over time or stop all together. I hope this time is different.

Anyone could give an explanation of how this stack modulates dopamine?

MrHappy, what do you mean by "and dopamine modulation will cease", as I understand it, the increased dopamine would reach a ceiling at some time, stay stable, but consciously would get habituated to the effects not noticing a difference?

Also, MrHappy when you reffering to "change their lifestyle, so it is easier to continue supplementing the missing micro-nutrients." do you mostly mean diet? Personally I have made dietary improvements, looked in some books from the paleo movement, and waiting to check Aspreys new book, do you have anyones book/s or site/s to recommend to get a more general view on your ideas on dieting and maybe supplementation? Thanks!