2844 replies to this topic

[happy santa]

While a lot of the effects are long-lasting, you still have to deal with the dietary and lifestyle choices that have caused you to be where you were before supplementing. Some people prefer not to (or can't easily) change their lifestyle, so it is easier to continue supplementing the missing micronutrients.

Also, some of the short-term / dose dependent effects like neural blood pressure and dopamine modulation will cease.

Thank you for answering. Yes I definately see how a healthy lifestyle could probably prove even more effective on our dopaminergic system, than the uridine stack, if one really would have the effort/motivation and ability to do so. I can still definately see the point in still supplementing uridine for the reason you point out, and also for its many other benefits. I actually feel it's an amazing supplement so far, and I should thank you for making this thread in the first place, which made me find this


In my question I was more specifically wondering about the upregulation of dopamine, during the one-year time-span while supplementing uridine?
I can see how discontinuing uridine would cease the dopamine modulation due to homeostasis (correct me if I'm wrong), though perhaps if one would adopt a healthier lifestyle (compared to before supplementing) it would help one to keep a higher baseline dopamine receptor density, than before.

Also, MrHappy when you reffering to "change their lifestyle, so it is easier to continue supplementing the missing micro-nutrients." do you mostly mean diet?

I think he meant one's lifestyle overall, which would include one's diet, exercise, mental health, social life etc.

I'm going a little off-track now, but a thing that personally surprised me, is how our social life is a factor that also influences our dopamine receptor density. There are studies on primates and humans, how one's social support, social status, volume of one's social circle, directly influences our brain's density of dopamine receptors. We are social beings after all, so I guess it makes sense .So if one would wish to make a "change in their lifestyle" to increase their dopaminergic system activity, it would be wise to include social life as a factor, as well. Other than that, of course genetics probably plays a huge role on our dopaminergic system

[bzyb]

Started back on this in the last few days for various reasons but it's making me very tired during the day! I also had a strange effect yesterday after taking 250mg UMP Sublingual, got very very depressed on the way into work, like I know I had a feeling of shear dread on my face. Luckily that subsided after about an hour. Switched to Oral today to see if that helps

All on an empty stomach. Going to try some elimination from tomorrow to figure out which item is causing the drowsiness. Up to now I was regularly taking 1xDHA,D3,VitE before introducing B Complex, Uridine and extra DHA so it's one of the last 3.

greyarate, yes I had a similar reaction as you as I've tried the uridine stack on and off for a few weeks. I liked taking UMP sublingually for its stimulating effect. Also taking it before you sleep can help with dreaming which is good for someone like me who during a sleep study was seen to have very little REM sleep. However I find when I take too much UMP sublingually it can contribute to a muted, very down feeling. The body is relaxed but somehow I experience a bit of fright too. I think one of the reasons is some of us have a different brain chemistry like from tests I believe I have a high acetylcholine, low GABA chemistry. Thus I barely take choline, and I guess I have to be careful with uridine and maybe some others like inositol which correct me if I am wrong also turns to choline? I also dont take B-Complex, but do take D, a multivitamin, and other supplements.

Nevertheless, the stack is helpful at modulating dopamine which I need after years of poor health and habits. I will continue probably only orally from now on, or if i need a good kick no more than 50 mg sublingually, and not before sleep anymore. Perhaps oral capsules are better for you and maybe try to take with some food because some of the components of the stack are fat-soluble. Once I incorporate more of a consistent stack I update if there are any improvements and hopefully you can do the same.

[Godof Smallthings]

I know Jarrow has UMP, but it is pretty expensive (and worryingly, some people have reported no effect from it).

Does anyone know of a cheaper, reliable source that you have ordered from within the last 3 months, please?

[Strangelove]

I know Jarrow has UMP, but it is pretty expensive (and worryingly, some people have reported no effect from it).

Does anyone know of a cheaper, reliable source that you have ordered from within the last 3 months, please?

Still expensive though.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3ccfd737ba

Edited by Strangelove, 21 February 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Strangelove]

I am going to place an order for b complex, any specific formulation you recommend?

[hephaestus]

I placed an order with NootropicsDepot.com a few days ago. I have never ordered from them before but they seem to have a good reputation.

http://nootropicsdep...osphate-powder/

I've ordered from superior nutraceuticals previously but they are a bit more expensive.

Edited by hephaestus, 21 February 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[BioFreak]

I'm wondering... how many people have continuously supplemented with the stack, then stopped, and got lasting effects from it?

What effects/changes from the stack were still there after stopping supplementation?

How long did they last after stopping(If they were of structural nature, they should last quite a while, IMHO)

[celebes]

I am going to place an order for b complex, any specific formulation you recommend?

AOR is probably the best available.

[Strangelove]

I am going to place an order for b complex, any specific formulation you recommend?

AOR is probably the best available.

Yes seems nice, but probably shipping would be high. I am going to get something from iherb, its like $4 for shipping in Europe.

What do you think about brewer's yeast? Its pretty cheap and high (for a food) in b vitamins.

http://www.iherb.com...56&sr=null&ic=1

or better this

http://www.amazon.co...=Brewer's Yeast

Edited by Strangelove, 24 February 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[Jeoshua]

Yeast is not an acceptable substitute for Uridine Monophosphate. Uridine itself cannot be absorbed directly by the gut, but the Monophosphate form can, which is why such a seemingly commonplace substance has the effects it does, in the first place.

[celebes]

Yes seems nice, but probably shipping would be high. I am going to get something from iherb, its like $4 for shipping in Europe.

What do you think about brewer's yeast? Its pretty cheap and high (for a food) in b vitamins.

AOR: http://www.iherb.com...=4&sr=null&ic=1


Brewer's yeast is nothing special, which is reflected in the price. It probably promotes gout more than it does neurogenesis.

Edited by celebes, 25 February 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[Strangelove]

Yes seems nice, but probably shipping would be high. I am going to get something from iherb, its like $4 for shipping in Europe.

What do you think about brewer's yeast? Its pretty cheap and high (for a food) in b vitamins.

AOR: http://www.iherb.com...=4&sr=null&ic=1


Brewer's yeast is nothing special, which is reflected in the price. It probably promotes gout more than it does neurogenesis.

There is another good option (jarrow b-right) for less than half the price. As a layman in b complex supplementation it seems jarrow compares favorably with the AOR. The only issue I am aware is that AOR has 100% folate when Jarrow's has 350 mcg folic acid and only 50 mcg of the supposedly very bioavailable quatrefolic. Is anyone aware of what is specific the issue with folic acid supplementation?

I believe folic acid in a supplement, could only be useless even hazardous for people with the common mthfr mutations is this correct?

Brewer's yeast has a very good reputation as a supplement (in the general public) in my country. Saying this, I have not made any research on it. I was very surprised to see a 4.9 average in Amazon for the product below... For whatever reason each person rated it high, I do not know, but its rare to find a 4.9 in Amazon. I certainly I do not imply any health benefits, just saying... As I do not have time to look it up, right now.

http://www.amazon.co...l brewers yeast

http://www.iherb.com...68&sr=null&ic=1

I made a table with a direct comparison between amounts and types of b vitamins for the two supplements, but it did not came through as planned, in my post. Anyway, if anyone is interested, or can directly compare the different forms of b vitamins in Jarrow and AOR, it would be helpful.

Edited by Strangelove, 25 February 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[celebes]

AOR has all vitamins in their coenzymated forms, while Jarrow only partly has coenzymated B6, B9, B12. Coenzymated forms are supposed to bypass any metabolic mutations one might have, like MTHFR. My experiences with the AOR have indeed been much better than with B-Right.

Bob's is a good company so it's probably higher quality than any of the yeasts I've tried. That said, a quick glance over the reviews shows almost all of them are from vegans. Yeast is a concentrated source of glutamates, nucleotides, inosine and similar so the rave reviews are probably more for filling a craving for cheese/meat than for the quality of B-vitamins it provides. The grab bag of stuff in it is also why excitotoxicity and gout might become issues for someone who doesn't avoid animal matter.

[Strangelove]

AOR has all vitamins in their coenzymated forms, while Jarrow only partly has coenzymated B6, B9, B12. Coenzymated forms are supposed to bypass any metabolic mutations one might have, like MTHFR. My experiences with the AOR have indeed been much better than with B-Right.

Bob's is a good company so it's probably higher quality than any of the yeasts I've tried. That said, a quick glance over the reviews shows almost all of them are from vegans. Yeast is a concentrated source of glutamates, nucleotides, inosine and similar so the rave reviews are probably more for filling a craving for cheese/meat than for the quality of B-vitamins it provides. The grab bag of stuff in it is also why excitotoxicity and gout might become issues for someone who doesn't avoid animal matter.

Thanks, now I am perplexed if it would justify the extra cost, as I am short on money, and I am going to purchase quite a few of supplements. I ll probably try the jarrow brand now, and get AOR next time.

[Strangelove]

Some UMP I purchased from Nootropics Depot just arrived in the mail a few days ago, along with some Lion's Mane, and PRL but have yet to start taking it. I have previously taken TAU from another seller and received positive results but decided to switch to UMP.

They are selling for a very attractive price, so anyone who can compare nootropics depot's UMP powder against Superior Nutraceutical's UMP powder should please post a review/comparison. I've been happy with Nootropics Depot and they have a good rep, so I'm optimistic. As a staple supplement for many of us it will be nice to see available for cheaper.

I just placed an order from them for UMP, very happy with the experience. I had couple issues completing the purchase and I got very quick and helpful replies, their price is half of what I used to buy it, with lower international shipping. They stock quite a few of nootropics also.

I am going to review the quality of UMP when I ll receive it.

[Nobility]

WARNING: When you are purchasing online, make sure you get good quality products. I ordered off eBay twice, and I received a cut product (seemed like sugar). He had a lot of A++ reputation, but a couple of people saying it was a rubbish/fake product, I should of listened first.

So don't be scammed.

[happy santa]

I have a question:,
Would it be effective to combine uridine with GABA-stimulating supplements? I was thinking of adding ashwaganda+bacopa to the stack. ashwaganhda has GABA-mimicking properties, and bacopa acts as GABA-receptor upregulator. I'm not the best at reading scientific reports, but I came across this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2866953

Does this mean this will probably not be an effective stack?

Ok so I tried ashwagandha, and it made me lethargic and decreased the motivation I am getting from uridine. I would take it at night and it's indeed a geat sleeping agent, but the day after I would feel lethargic. Even though it made me feel very relaxed and down to earth, at the same time it basically reduced uridine's effect and made me feel like I returned a bit to the state how before I started supplementing with uridine. This was just my experience, so I'm not sure how other people would experience it, but it definately doesn't fit with my brain chemistry, for the purpose and goal I want to achieve. So I will discontinue this supplement, and continue my supplementation with uridine for an ongoing 10 months.

[perplex]

I've seen some question scattered around this thread but there seems to be no verdict yet on how uridine affects people HPA axis dysfucntion (sometime referred to as adrenal fatigue or mild adrenal insufficiency)

e.g I'd like to try uridine but at the moment I have low cortisol and adrogen hormone levels and I'm not sure if Uridine will harm or help return to homeostasis.

Edited by perplex, 06 March 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[hephaestus]

https://en.wikipedia...Adrenal_fatigue

[Lufega]

I am getting some pretty intense itching from the TAU. I've seed this mentioned a few times. Any ideas as to what's causing this side effect ? I introduced each supplement one by one and the itching only starts once I take uridine. It almost feels like a niacin flush but I get the effect even when I don't take a b-vitamin.

I'm using 250 mg TAU with:
250 mg choline
Jarrow b-complex
2 teaspoons fish oil
500 mg fish oil.
royal jelly

Additionally, I use unmodified potato starch with a reuteri probiotic and zinc/magnesium at night.

Edited by Lufega, 07 March 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[MizTen]

I have had itching from Lion's Mane for the first two weeks, and a couple of other things that are supposed to increase neurogenisis. Possibly, the itching (and the mild headaches and pressure that some report from similar substances) are actually an effect of neurogenisis. That is what I believe was causing the itching and headaches and pressure that I experienced.

But that doesn't mean you're experiencing an allergic reaction instead, so best to heed symptoms and keep something like Benadryl on hand just in case.

Edited by MizTen, 07 March 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[happy santa]

Hey, I was just wondering if someone experience something similar to me.
Lately, after 3 months of uridine, when I have taken uridine together with with 20 mg zinc, fish oil, 5000 ui vitamin d, and just before working out, I can imagine what it feels like to be on adderall or some other mild stimulant, because I get very hyped up and get very intense. I also noticed I got a noticable dryer mouth and caught myself licking my lips, which I heard people using amphetamines use. Now, I am not comparing my uridine experience to such a strong stimulant, but certainly perhaps like adderall or a pre-workout supplement. It could also be that I introduced zinc into my stack, since it supposedly acts a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. I am not complaining though, my workouts get very effective

Edited by happy santa, 08 March 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[MrSliz1724]

I feel like a low dosed galantamine like 2-6 mg with 50 mg tau and the rest of the stack would be great. The addition of the nicotinic receptor modulation could add upon that stim feeling without actually utilizing stimulants.

Thoughts on this?

[Strangelove]

Hey, I was just wondering if someone experience something similar to me.
Lately, after 3 months of uridine, when I have taken uridine together with with 20 mg zinc, fish oil, 5000 ui vitamin d, and just before working out, I can imagine what it feels like to be on adderall or some other mild stimulant, because I get very hyped up and get very intense. I also noticed I got a noticable dryer mouth and caught myself licking my lips, which I heard people using amphetamines use. Now, I am not comparing my uridine experience to such a strong stimulant, but certainly perhaps like adderall or a pre-workout supplement. It could also be that I introduced zinc into my stack, since it supposedly acts a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. I am not complaining though, my workouts get very effective

Check this...

Zinc in highly bioavailable form (Methioine) increases density, from own experience it feels almost like amphetamine-like compound.

Zinc regulates the dopamine transporter in a membrane potential and chloride dependent manner.

Pifl C, Wolf A, Rebernik P, Reither H, Berger ML.

Source

Center for Brain Research, Medical University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 4, A-1090 Vienna, Austria. christian.pifl@meduniwien.ac.at

Abstract


The dopamine transporter (DAT), a membrane protein specifically expressed by dopaminergic neurons and mediating the action of psychostimulants and dopaminergic neurotoxins, is regulated by Zn(2+) which directly interacts with the protein. Herein, we report a host-cell-specific direction of the Zn(2+) effect on wild type DAT. Whereas low mumolar Zn(2+) decreased dopamine uptake by DAT expressing HEK293 cells, it stimulated uptake by DAT expressing SK-N-MC cells. Inhibition or stimulation was lost in a DAT construct without the binding site for Zn(2+). Also reverse transport was differentially affected by Zn(2+), dependent on whether the DAT was expressed in HEK293 or SK-N-MC cells. Pre-treatment of DAT expressing cells with phorbol-12-myristate-13-acetate, an activator of protein kinase C, attenuated the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) on uptake in HEK293 cells and increased the stimulatory effect in SK-N-MC cells. Patch-clamp experiments under non-voltage-clamped conditions revealed a significantly higher membrane potential of HEK293 than SK-N-MC cells and a reduced membrane potential after phorbol ester treatment. Lowering chloride in the uptake buffer switched the stimulatory effect of Zn(2+) in SK-N-MC cells to an inhibitory, whereas high potassium depolarization of HEK293 cells switched the inhibitory effect of Zn(2+) to a stimulatory one. This study represents the first evidence that DAT regulation by Zn(2+) is profoundly modulated by the membrane potential and chloride.

I had a similar experience, although not as strong as yours, I did not make the connection at the time, but may as well be the addition of Zinc. Anyone here think that larger doses of uridine depletes dopamine, and l-phenylalanine plus cofactors may be a good addition to increase dopamine synthesis?

[MizTen]

Hey, I was just wondering if someone experience something similar to me.
Lately, after 3 months of uridine, when I have taken uridine together with with 20 mg zinc, fish oil, 5000 ui vitamin d, and just before working out, I can imagine what it feels like to be on adderall or some other mild stimulant, because I get very hyped up and get very intense. I also noticed I got a noticable dryer mouth and caught myself licking my lips, which I heard people using amphetamines use. Now, I am not comparing my uridine experience to such a strong stimulant, but certainly perhaps like adderall or a pre-workout supplement. It could also be that I introduced zinc into my stack, since it supposedly acts a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. I am not complaining though, my workouts get very effective

For the last few weeks I've had a similar very hyped speedy effect within 2 hours of taking my supplements. Since I am not taking any "research chemicals" right now and was only drinking 1 extra cup of coffee in the morning, I couldn't figure out what was causing this extremely speedy effect. It was fairly intense and very similar to Adderall without the jaw clenching and obsessive cleaning and organizing. Though I definitely notice that I am starting to get a whole lot more done.

But at this point I'm pretty sure it's the 50 mg of uridine that I added about a month ago. It didn't have any noticeable effect at first. But I think it has somehow primed my system to be more sensitive to anything stimulating. This is not bad, in fact the positive endorphin effects of exercise have greatly increased. I just need to pay a lot more attention to supplements and noots with stimulating effects.

Also forgot to add that I started taking 7-Keto, but the speedy effect started before that.

Edited by MizTen, 08 March 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[happy santa]

yeah I read that study too, fascinating stuff. I take zinc picolinate which has high bioavailability. My own theory is that I have these experiences when I have an already high level of dopamine, outside of uridine's action. For example, my guess is that the dopamine released from exercise, together with the zinc's dopamine reuptake activity, is what played a role, in my personal experience.

The same happened when I had a night of just 3 hours sleep, and took uridine. I felt an increase in body temperature and could go out in the cold morning, in just a sweater without freezing . I've read that sleep deprivation significantly increase dopamine levels in the brain, so in this case i assume it was the lack of sleep that was the factor of already high dopamine levels.

And Strangelove, no, uridine shouldn't deplete dopamine. Its mechanism works as it uregulates the dopamine receptors, while it at the same time is releasing dopamine. So I suppose we are good to go . About l-phenylalanine, I know it was discussed about earlier in the thread. page 31 I believe.

Edited by happy santa, 08 March 2014 - 11:00 PM.

[norepinephrine]

Does anyone else notice uridine increases their magnesium needs?

I generally take 400-600mg magnesium a day, and if I exceed that upper limit by much, a certain well-known side effect regarding bathroom usage ensues.

Taking 250mg. sublingual uridine/day, I find that I can double magnesium intake with no ill effect; as well, though uridine brings a multitude of positives (mainly in terms of dopamine modulation), one nagging side effect for me is lessened sleep quality and duration. Magnesium helps alleviate that, though it can be difficult to space out 800-900mg throughout the day given that taking it too late in the evening seems to have an opposite effect on sleep for me.

(Incidentally, I've also noticed the speedy effect of uridine, co-administered with zinc, caffeine and exercise. As a nootropic, it's one of the few things that noticeably increases my motivation and focus outside of more physiologically-costly pharmaceuticals.)

[Droplet33]

Which form of magnesium did you use? Magnesium citrate, magnesium L-Threonate?

The latter is beneficial for LTP in the Ciltep stack, so i figure it would be a great benefits.

[norepinephrine]

Malate.

L-Threonate is a mighty expensive way to correct a deficiency. For the moment, I'm siding with ScienceGuy until more evidence comes to support it's superiority in terms of brain bioavailability.

Although I used to dose CILTEP, I don't anymore. The increase in focus and energy wasn't quite worth the decrease in working memory.

Edited by norepinephrine, 10 March 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[penisbreath]

does Uridine make anyone else irritable?