2844 replies to this topic

[Babychris]

I'm Under the stack from yesterday but unfortunately I just have Tau Uridine and didn't read much good reviews about it.. I think I will not take fish oïl because it increase my anxiety and have some bad effects on me.. Do you have an idea if uridine might be effective for skyzophrenia or at least could help in any sort? Thank's to you

[Potent]

So I've recently started taking Resistant Starch, based on Lost Falco's recommendation. Resistant Starch is discussed in his thread, but I thought I'd spread it here.

The idea is that resistant starch is metabolized by colonic bacteria that produce butyrate, a short chain fatty acid. Butyrate is the preferred fuel source for colonic epithelium, which use about 70%. The remaining butyrate potentially enters the blood stream. As a fatty acid, it has the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier. In the CNS, butyrate has the potential to inhibit HDAC. More histone acetylation from HDAC inhibition can lead to increased transcription of the CREB gene, which is implicated in LTP. One of CREBs gene products is BDNF.

I've combined Mr. Happy Stack, 1 tablespoon of Resistant Starch, and Phenylpiracetam. So far it feels beautiful.
Titrate resistant starch slowly. I took 8 TBSPs one day, and I don't think my colonic microflora was ready for it. I got headaches and GI disturbances.

The combination of increased synpatogenesis from from Mr. Happy Stack + Upregulated BDNF from resistant starch could be a winning combination.

Much respect to Mr. Happy and Lost Falco. Happy experimenting.

Edited by Potent, 30 March 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[penisbreath]

I'm actually experimenting with something similar, potent. I meant to write a post singing the praises of resistant starch, since it's pretty much the only supplement that's ever helped me (reduced anxiety, better sleep and less depression). I'd read the benefits pretty much cap at 4 tablespoons, but have you noticed anything by going higher?

The downside is it drops my blood sugar, can induce reflux and make me a little tired, so I have to be sure to take it in milk after food.

[Potent]

Hi there, I wouldn't want to derail this already long thread on Mr. Happy Stack, so I'd encourage the resistant starch discussion to stay in Lost Falco's experiments thread. I just wanted to say that I think Mr. Happy Stack and Resistant Starch combo could be great.

But quickly, I went up to 8 tbsps, which is what Lost Falco is taking I believe. However, I got headaches and GI distrubances. I need to titrate slower, I don't think my colonic bacteria are up to par.
So I wouldn't be able to really tell you about larger doses yet, you can ask in Lost Falco's thread where you'd get a better response.

Edited by Potent, 31 March 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[bzyb]

I am running out of uridine so don't take the stack regularly, I do have some TAU but doesn't seem to have same effect as UMP. So for budget shoppers, the nootropics depot UMP is of okay quality for the stack?

For my GI issue I am taking probiotics along with bentl and pamelor, though the latter two don't seem to help much so I may stop; the probiotic is working pretty well. For headaches, can try choline or piracetam, though I think uridine itself eventually turns to choline.

Edited by bzyb, 03 April 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[Strangelove]

Quoting first post from MrHappy -
After 2 weeks:
Slowly introduce choline - start with 50mg of eg.alpha-GPC or CDP-choline and ramp it up to around 300mg.
If you experience depressive symptoms from choline, discontinue choline and consider ALCAR as an alternative.

Interesting, I forgot about the CDP-choline doses, I originally read the thread more than a year before I tried the combo. I know that common CDP-choline doses are around 250-500mg but after adding UMP I am getting better mood boost with 1000mg, how every one else is dosing?

I am spacing choline through the day, its not a big boost anymore, but I am also using it for the long term health benefits. I am wondering if 1000mg is too much though?

Edited by Strangelove, 03 April 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[D424friday]

This stack is absolutely brilliant, improves my intellect and mood greatly! Currently taking 250mg UMP / 500mg Alcar / 1g DHA, 500mg EPA daily.
I have a question though:
I am fairly certain I am an under methylator, i fit almost every symptom perfectly, and Sam e consistently boosts my mood. But i hear conflicting information regarding what one should do with b12/folate supplementation when they are an under-methylator. I have seen multiple people say avoid b12 and folate/folic acid as an under methylator, and some people saying they are absolutely necesarry, and now taking uridine adds to my confusion further. Does anyone know if i should be supplementing with b12 and folate?


Would it be wise to get some sort of b12 and folate test and go from there? If such a thing exists that is.

Edited by D424friday, 03 April 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Strangelove]

Hey D424friday, for how long you have been using the stack? Have you tried UMP and Alcar alone before?

[DamnedOwl]

I think the 23andme test would tell you whether you're an under methylator but I'm sure I read a couple of months ago that they're not allowed to do that test anymore.

[D424friday]

Hey D424friday, for how long you have been using the stack? Have you tried UMP and Alcar alone before?

I have been using the stack for about 3 or 4 months now. I have not tried UMP and Alcar without dha/epa before.

I think the 23andme test would tell you whether you're an under methylator but I'm sure I read a couple of months ago that they're not allowed to do that test anymore.

Damn, I'll still look into it though, thanks for the suggestion.

[Strangelove]

I think the 23andme test would tell you whether you're an under methylator but I'm sure I read a couple of months ago that they're not allowed to do that test anymore.

What? Did they give a reason for that?

[Strelok]

The FDA said they were selling medical advice by doing so, and banned them from including their interpretations with your raw genetic info. I have heard that you can get the raw info from 23andme, and then plug it into another site/program that will interpret it for you. I don't remember where or how to do this, though. Anyone?

[Bukujutsu]

The FDA said they were selling medical advice by doing so, and banned them from including their interpretations with your raw genetic info. I have heard that you can get the raw info from 23andme, and then plug it into another site/program that will interpret it for you. I don't remember where or how to do this, though. Anyone?

Here, this is what I used: http://www.thegeneti...a-test-results/

[cgriffin]

Is there one on the free and one on the paid side that stand out as interpreting data better then the others? I know they all probably give different results so I would assume a few are standing out among others. Funny this came up on this thread, i've been researching this a lot this last week.

[D424friday]

Apologies if this is too off topic.
I've just come across this article:
http://www.sciencedi...304394013004047

It says that increasing the ratio of AMPA to NMDA receptor mediated neurotransmission produces antidepressant effects.
This would explain why uridine is such a great anti depressant/mood balancer for me, and would also explain my positive reactions to memantine and tianeptine. I had an adverse reaction to d aspartic acid a couple of years ago resulting in fatigue/depression/anxiety.

Anyway, does anybody have any information regarding how to potentiate/agonise/upregulate ampa receptors/antagonise/downregulate nmda receptors or normalize the ratio safely long term? I'm not too versed on the subject, currently looking into cerebrolysin/idebenone.
Please PM me if you have any information, thanks.

[Babychris]

Does the jarrow formula UMP effective ? I have read absolutely no positive review about it.. ?

[qlawi90]

I started with this stack two weeks ago. I want to be honest in my review as i got different feelings from this stack so its a bit hard to describe my feelings.
In the first few days, i noticed great mood in the morning, very alert instant after wake up, i was able to handle social situation better then ever before. I could easy get my task list done. This stack might also increase analyze cability, for me it felt like it did.
My sleep was deeper, and was be able to wake up earlier. I felt comfortable with this type of mood, My diet was ok, ,sport exercise (cardio), and sleep at time. I noticed that sleep is like 120% of this stack, cause when i start sleeping late, the stack didnt work anymore as it was before.
Since 3 days i aint feeling the same mood or drive anymore, maybe because my sleep changed, maybe cause i didnt sport this week, but also im thinking that the dosage wont anymore work at this level. I know from the last expierence of yesterday that i was so tired, that i didnt feel anything the whole day. I couldnt be sharp the whole day, whatever i did or want for it.

I want keep the same resulfts or long term, so i might need to higher the dosages. What do you guys think? I want to have more focus, a deeper motivation, more alertness and if possible, cognitive growth, thats the most important for me.

stack in the morning : 2g of DHA, 250 mg Choline Bitartrate and 250 mg uridine and 200 mg caffeine and 400 mg l-theanine.

Edited by qlawi90, 05 April 2014 - 09:36 PM.

[Arjuna]

Hey everyone.
I've added a high dose of zinc magnesium and tmg to this stack, and I've never felt better in my whole life. I think methylation may be a rate limiting step for utilization or uridine and making phospholipids (for undermethylators). It's not just the methylation, but the glycine (from tmg) and magnesium has made my addictions and depression melt away. It is NMDA magic! I don't understand completely the relationship between the NMDA receptors and Dopamine, but there is a close connection going on. Before I started the tmg, with just happy stack and high dose magnesium glycinate 2 times a day, I noticed I didn't need to smoke as much and felt my depression fading, and now after the tmg I've become so happy and sociable it is silly. It isn't the happy or sociable thing that is such a surprise, the biggest surprise is how smart and alive I feel.

Edited by Arjuna, 05 April 2014 - 09:56 PM.

[norepinephrine]

Does the jarrow formula UMP effective ? I have read absolutely no positive review about it.. ?

Yeah, I take it. Jarrow is a generally well-trusted brand; I find their UMP works as good or better than SN's, and it's cheaper on a gram basis to boot.

[norepinephrine]

Hey everyone.
I've added a high dose of zinc magnesium and tmg to this stack, and I've never felt better in my whole life. I think methylation may be a rate limiting step for utilization or uridine and making phospholipids (for undermethylators). It's not just the methylation, but the glycine (from tmg) and magnesium has made my addictions and depression melt away. It is NMDA magic! I don't understand completely the relationship between the NMDA receptors and Dopamine, but there is a close connection going on. Before I started the tmg, with just happy stack and high dose magnesium glycinate 2 times a day, I noticed I didn't need to smoke as much and felt my depression fading, and now after the tmg I've become so happy and sociable it is silly. It isn't the happy or sociable thing that is such a surprise, the biggest surprise is how smart and alive I feel.

I've been taking UMP+DHA alongside magnesium malate, zinc+copper, B-complex, ginkgo, nicotine and caffeine lately. I also take ALCAR on strict occasion - too often and I find it becomes anxiogenic. It's been a relative game-changer - about the only downside I can think of is diminished sleep quality lately, though zinc, melatonin and being smarter about caffeine dosage does help. Aside from that, my motivation and focus has been vastly improved. Overall, I'm finding this regimen far better than my trials with CILTEP or racetams, and more sustainable to boot.

I have some TMG on hand, but never really got much from it before - perhaps I'll have to try adding it back in again.

[qlawi90]

Hey everyone.
I've added a high dose of zinc magnesium and tmg to this stack, and I've never felt better in my whole life. I think methylation may be a rate limiting step for utilization or uridine and making phospholipids (for undermethylators). It's not just the methylation, but the glycine (from tmg) and magnesium has made my addictions and depression melt away. It is NMDA magic! I don't understand completely the relationship between the NMDA receptors and Dopamine, but there is a close connection going on. Before I started the tmg, with just happy stack and high dose magnesium glycinate 2 times a day, I noticed I didn't need to smoke as much and felt my depression fading, and now after the tmg I've become so happy and sociable it is silly. It isn't the happy or sociable thing that is such a surprise, the biggest surprise is how smart and alive I feel.

Hi Arjuna. I've added a few times 50mg of zinc plus some mg zinc from my multivitame. I forgotten to descrive that here above. Might that be the reason i didnt get that feeling anymore i had before? i dont have any zinc anymore left, and trying to figure out if that could be the reason. I think we are talking about the same miracle.

Edited by qlawi90, 05 April 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Arjuna]

Qlawi90- yeah the zinc was what I took first and it made a noticeable increase in energy and motivation, I think because it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, Nmda antagonist, involved in lots of energy and antioxidant metabolism, and natural testosterone booster. It is a fantastic supplement all around. I once found a study saying that suicide autopsies show a deficiency in both zinc and magnesium, both of which are nmda antagonists. Nmda antagonists fight addiction depression and drug tolerance, just read the threads on memantine and dxm around the internet. My guess is that our awful diets are lacking in these minerals that required for brain health. In the 1920s magnesium levels dropped in grain and at the same time depression was raised. Magnesium glycinate causes rapid recovery from depression. Magnesium and zinc reduce tolerance to nicotine. If you give ADHD kids zinc they respond to their amphetamine medication with lower doses. ADHD and autistic kids have lower magnesium and zinc. These aren't simply minerals, they are requirements for brain plasticity.

Norepinephrine- get some magnesium glycinate, it will help you sleep, and be liberal with the doses. I can't agree with you more about the failure of piracetam, and all racetams for me. At first they are helpful, then the body develops tolerance by downregulating nmda receptors, or worse: excitotoxicity. After my aniracetam binges my mental life degraded to being just plain numb and stupid. It is because those drugs lower the voltage required to fire the nmda receptor, so they work like anti-magnesium in that regard. Piracetam has even been shown to strengthen addiction in mice, so this confirms this hypothesis. Racetams help mental function short term, magnesium and zinc help it long term.

Another note: glycine is effective against schizophrenia, so by taking tmg and magnesium glycinate you will have this benefit, too. And there is a chance tmg metabolizes to methylglycine, another good anti schizophrenia drug. So take this combo (with b vitamins) can fight off depression schizophrenia ADHD social anxiety depression and live life!

Edited by Arjuna, 06 April 2014 - 02:51 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

Does the jarrow formula UMP effective ? I have read absolutely no positive review about it.. ?

I took a chance and ordered it from iherb despite the negative review. Based on previous experience, my package will arrive in two weeks and I will start to take it then. Will keep you updated if you can wait that long.

[chemicalambrosia]

Apologies if this is too off topic.
I've just come across this article:
http://www.sciencedi...304394013004047

It says that increasing the ratio of AMPA to NMDA receptor mediated neurotransmission produces antidepressant effects.
This would explain why uridine is such a great anti depressant/mood balancer for me, and would also explain my positive reactions to memantine and tianeptine. I had an adverse reaction to d aspartic acid a couple of years ago resulting in fatigue/depression/anxiety.

Anyway, does anybody have any information regarding how to potentiate/agonise/upregulate ampa receptors/antagonise/downregulate nmda receptors or normalize the ratio safely long term? I'm not too versed on the subject, currently looking into cerebrolysin/idebenone.
Please PM me if you have any information, thanks.

This subject is probably worth its own thread. You will get a lot more feedback that way than you will with one post buried in a thread with 82 pages.

[Babychris]

I'm Under the impression that Fish oil is causing anxiety furthermore some weird focusing effect indeed, I can't focus well with my eyes, it's not totally related since racetams seems to affect me in the same way, but this is kind of a flabbergasting experience. Don't know why fish oil affect me so strongly particularly in the need to constantly contract my head, feeling like there is something Inside (it's certainly mostly caused by the vasodilatatory effect). That's too bad because it really treat very well my ADD + bipolar issue but at a great cost as you can imagine. So I'll see in my next exam how it affect my scores. I will certainly not use it on the long term .

[pbandy1]

Qlawi90- yeah the zinc was what I took first and it made a noticeable increase in energy and motivation, I think because it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, Nmda antagonist, involved in lots of energy and antioxidant metabolism, and natural testosterone booster. It is a fantastic supplement all around. I once found a study saying that suicide autopsies show a deficiency in both zinc and magnesium, both of which are nmda antagonists. Nmda antagonists fight addiction depression and drug tolerance, just read the threads on memantine and dxm around the internet. My guess is that our awful diets are lacking in these minerals that required for brain health. In the 1920s magnesium levels dropped in grain and at the same time depression was raised. Magnesium glycinate causes rapid recovery from depression. Magnesium and zinc reduce tolerance to nicotine. If you give ADHD kids zinc they respond to their amphetamine medication with lower doses. ADHD and autistic kids have lower magnesium and zinc. These aren't simply minerals, they are requirements for brain plasticity.

Norepinephrine- get some magnesium glycinate, it will help you sleep, and be liberal with the doses. I can't agree with you more about the failure of piracetam, and all racetams for me. At first they are helpful, then the body develops tolerance by downregulating nmda receptors, or worse: excitotoxicity. After my aniracetam binges my mental life degraded to being just plain numb and stupid. It is because those drugs lower the voltage required to fire the nmda receptor, so they work like anti-magnesium in that regard. Piracetam has even been shown to strengthen addiction in mice, so this confirms this hypothesis. Racetams help mental function short term, magnesium and zinc help it long term.

Another note: glycine is effective against schizophrenia, so by taking tmg and magnesium glycinate you will have this benefit, too. And there is a chance tmg metabolizes to methylglycine, another good anti schizophrenia drug. So take this combo (with b vitamins) can fight off depression schizophrenia ADHD social anxiety depression and live life!

Damn, glycinate does all that? Seems better than threonate to be honest.

Ultracholine is out for pre-order in case anyone is interested. Kind of pricey but Mind Nutrition is one of my go-to nootropic companies.

https://store.mindnu...as/ultracholine

[norepinephrine]

^ The benefits he mentioned in the first paragraph are irrespective of the type of magnesium used, so long as you choose one with high bioavailability. Malate, glycinate and L-threonate all fall into that category.

Arjuna - I generally cycle between malate and glycinate as I run out of one or the other. Subjectively, I find malate to help a lot with energy (which would make sense given malic acid's role in ATP synthesis) and skin health (a nice side effect). As per a clinician's recommendation, I generally try to take up to 800mg daily, though I noticed with uridine, I can go above that without incurring things like loose stools.

Zinc really seems like the driving force behind a great deal of positives to this stack, though - in addition to the energy boost, I find my sleep is improved. Such effects tend to be inversely correlated, but not in zinc's case. FWIW, zinc is used in GABA and melatonin synthesis. From my understanding, it also protects against oxidation of PUFA's, namely the DHA/EPA we're taking. A general caveat, though: if you're going to supplement long-term, co-supplementation with copper is pretty important to avoid building a deficiency (and losing out on the positives of zinc).

[norepinephrine]

.

Edited by norepinephrine, 06 April 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[pbandy1]

^ The benefits he mentioned in the first paragraph are irrespective of the type of magnesium used, so long as you choose one with high bioavailability. Malate, glycinate and L-threonate all fall into that category.

Arjuna - I generally cycle between malate and glycinate as I run out of one or the other. Subjectively, I find malate to help a lot with energy (which would make sense given malic acid's role in ATP synthesis) and skin health (a nice side effect). As per a clinician's recommendation, I generally try to take up to 800mg daily, though I noticed with uridine, I can go above that without incurring things like loose stools.

Zinc really seems like the driving force behind a great deal of positives to this stack, though - in addition to the energy boost, I find my sleep is improved. Such effects tend to be inversely correlated, but not in zinc's case. FWIW, zinc is used in GABA and melatonin synthesis. From my understanding, it also protects against oxidation of PUFA's, namely the DHA/EPA we're taking. A general caveat, though: if you're going to supplement long-term, co-supplementation with copper is pretty important to avoid building a deficiency (and losing out on the positives of zinc).

I believe copper is necessary if your intake of zinc is around 50mg or more on a daily basis. If one is taking 30mg like most supplements, I'm not so sure if it's needed.

[ichivictus]

Hello, I have recently started this stack and thought I'd share what it is I am doing to get advice or to help others passing by.

 

I am taking the recommended route of Uridine for 2 weeks before using Choline. Using stuff off of amazon for now. If I see results I will get bulk amounts in powder.

 

Jarrows Formula Uridine 250mg - one in morning and one in evening taken sublingually

 

Vitamin D3 - 50,000 IU taken daily for the next 30 days (I am D3 deficient due to very little sun). then 5,000 IU daily with 50,000 IU on sundays.

 

Thompson Nutritional C powder - 1 tsp = 5,000mg - once per day

 

Vitamin E 400 IU (500 IU is recommended but I couldn't find a 500 IU option on amazon so this'll have to do for now)

 

Jarrow - B right Complex - 1 a day with dinner

 

Adam Mens Multi Vitamin - Taking 2 per day. One in morning one in evening

 

As for DHA / EPA - I eat a can of sardines almost daily which gives me enough. If I don't then I have Nordic Naturals Omega-3 liquid. 1/2 tbsp is enough with that.

 

Once 2 weeks pass I will start the Choline. It's jarrows citicoline CDP. 250mg each. I know it is recommended to take less at first, but I don't feel like taking the pills apart. I'll just start at 250mg and see what happens.

 

I hope this will help me focus when reading or studying and stop daydreaming when I don't actually want to.

Edited by ichivictus, 07 April 2014 - 08:33 PM.