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GPC (choline), Uridine, DHA

choline uridine dha omega-3 epa ump tau b vitamins

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#2491 Jeoshua

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:05 PM

Again, let me point out you you Babychris, that TAU + HupA + Fish Oil does not equal UMP + GPC + DHA. The only acceptable substitute in this stack is to switch out Uridine Monophosphate and Alpha-GPC for Triacetyluridine and CDP-Choline. The High DHA Fish Oil is paramount, and normal Fish Oil contains lower amounts of DHA and higher amounts of EPA. The basic reasoning behind these supplements is to increase the amount of protein and membrane synthesis in the brain. This is not one of those stacks that you can substitute the elements and expect the same response, especially with a chemical that disrupts the choline pathways in the way that Huperzine A does.
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#2492 arboles

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:57 PM

what are the effects of taking uridine along with coq10 + pqq



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#2493 freepie

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:27 AM

Mr. Happy,

 

Did you make a thread about your daughter? If yes, can you give the url?

 

I hope you and your wife also attempt minimizing the indoctrination of gender expectations in her to maximize her potential, though that's hard because she is/will be not just exposed to you but society/media as well.


Edited by freepie, 12 April 2014 - 02:27 AM.

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#2494 Jeoshua

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 04:08 AM

Again, let me point out you you Babychris, that TAU + HupA + Fish Oil does not equal UMP + GPC + DHA. The only acceptable substitute in this stack is to switch out Uridine Monophosphate and Alpha-GPC for Triacetyluridine and CDP-Choline. The High DHA Fish Oil is paramount, and normal Fish Oil contains lower amounts of DHA and higher amounts of EPA. The basic reasoning behind these supplements is to increase the amount of protein and membrane synthesis in the brain. This is not one of those stacks that you can substitute the elements and expect the same response, especially with a chemical that disrupts the choline pathways in the way that Huperzine A does.


To clarify, as someone pointed out that I might not have explained what I mean about disrupting the pathways. I know this is likely to be overlooked as people don't read the whole thread before purchasing, and are always trying to cut corners, but here goes:

Huperzine A is an Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. As such, it inhibits the enzyme which breaks down acetylcholine, and thus increases the amount of Ach in the brain. This can lead to some good effects, but it does nothing about the amount of choline in the brain.

Alpha-GPC and CDP-Choline provide the body with increased amounts of choline. In addition to then combining with Acetyl-CoA to become Acetylcholine, this can also be used in the brain to create Phosphatidylcholine and other such cell membrane components. Uridine is a part of this mechanism, but free Uridine does not cross the blood-brain barrier. CDP-Choline creates free Citidine Diphosphate, which can then be converted into Uridine when crossing the Blood Brain Barrier, but Uridine Monophosphate is preferred since it is supplementing this directly. Triacetyluridine is acceptable, and has a better chance of getting across the BBB, but adds another step to the process (must be de-acetylated first).

Dicosahexaeonic acid combines with Choline in this system of brain to form Phosphatidylcholine, and a particularly powerful form of it as the fatty acid portion of PC can be one of a few different fatty acids, DHA providing possibly the best for neurons.

This is why Huperzine A is not an acceptable substitute for the choline supplements in Happy's Stack: It doesn't do a thing for actual levels of available choline in the brain. You CAN get a lower level of the stack to work with just pure DHA plus CDP-Choline, due to the conversion into Uridine, but it is not as efficient and only adds another rate limiting step to overcome.

So the best form of this stack is UMP + CDP-Choline + High DHA Fish Oil. The DHA, The Choline, and The Uridine Monophosphate. No substitutions allowed unless they're REALLY close in effect, and even then it will make the stack much less powerful.

And given the length of time it will take for neurogenesis to take place, I think it goes without saying that you have to wait a few weeks before this stack's true character begins to show itself. Don't take it once and then give up, give it time.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 April 2014 - 04:10 AM.

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#2495 Babychris

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:34 PM

That's sound good on paper but nothing justify that I had such side effects, and no huperzine had no benefits at all, just a terrible fatigue and depression... Omega 3 is not for me too it gives bad headaches (for my mom too) and it's quasi pure Omega 3 it's the Carlson Labs liquid fish oil which is quite high in EPA and DHA content, furthermore, EPA can be converted into DHA so that's not a problem. I don't think that pure DHA would change anything. 

 

For switching TAU for UMP I will try but for sure I will not supplement with it Omega 3 and I'm not sure about CDP choline because the choline pathway seems not to be my friend.



#2496 Jeoshua

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:49 PM

Yes, the brain can convert ALA or EPA or even simpler fats into DHA, but it doesn't do so at a high enough amount to really affect the synthesis of PC in the brain to any measurable amount. There are high DHA fish oil supplements that you can easily find, which will work much better.

Also, people commonly overlook the other supplements that are recommended, such as Vitamin E and B Complex. They're not crucial for the effects, but they are good for health and mitigate some of the side effects that people might come across.

As far as the headaches, that is a known side effect when starting Omega 3 supplements when you have a high amount of Omegas 6 and 9 already in your diet. These are temporary side effects and do fade with time, and Omega 3s have been used successfully as treatment for migraines, so don't worry about the headaches becoming worse. Remember the whole "slow burner" thing about this stack. It takes time.

Basically, if you absolutely won't use DHA supplements, then you won't be using Happy Stack. Uridine supplementation does have good effects for some people, but the synergy with DHA is the point of this stack.

And I'd personally stay away from HupA if it doesn't have good effects for you. I'm sure you have the same idea about that.

Edited by Jeoshua, 12 April 2014 - 12:51 PM.

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#2497 Babychris

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 01:04 PM

Yeah but I tried Carlson For 1 week (at 2/1 g EPA/DHA) and could not bear at all the mental effect of fish oil, it was way too calming, I was like a zombie with a constant weird pressure in my head. Sorry I really don't want to wait 1 month before eventually that effect subside And no my diet is a french diet particularly low in omega 6 and 9 and I eat regularly fish. So I will say bye bye to this omega 3 and stick on Uridine and maybe add CDP choline 



#2498 swen

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

/edit. 


Edited by swen, 13 April 2014 - 04:14 PM.


#2499 Babychris

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 06:00 PM

Furthermore I forget to tell about the terrible anxiety that trigger in me the fish oil, it really feel like a poison for me don't know why..


Furthermore I forget to tell about the terrible anxiety that trigger in me the fish oil, it really feels like a poison for me don't know why..



#2500 bzyb

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:36 AM

Did you make a thread about your daughter? If yes, can you give the url?

 

I hope you and your wife also attempt minimizing the indoctrination of gender expectations in her to maximize her potential, though that's hard because she is/will be not just exposed to you but society/media as well.

 

I don't understand?  I don't have a daughter but nieces, what are the gender expectations to maximize potential?  I take the uridine stack only as needed to modulate dopamine.

 

Furthermore I forget to tell about the terrible anxiety that trigger in me the fish oil, it really feel like a poison for me don't know why..

There are other oils Omega 3-6-9, mct oil, and the excellent krill oil though its more expensive.



#2501 sparkk51

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 02:08 PM

I dont feel anything from uridine, im curious how pronounced its supposed to feel.

#2502 Babychris

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 03:34 PM

are you are taking TAU or UMP .. ?

 

By the way I tried a low dose of Fish oil, then again, I'm suffering from a kind of vasdilatatory headaches with a blurred vision (I don't know if it's exactly that, but my eyes are not coordinate very well so I can't focus properly when I read) So I had to take a Ritalin, it has helped but not enough.



#2503 Frigo

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

Any idea why does Souvenaid contain Selenium? The role of other ingredients is crystal clear but this one is shrouded in mystery.



#2504 Jeoshua

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:02 PM

Selenium has been shown to have some effects in combination E that fight off Alzheimer's. That's why it's in that anti-alzheimer's supplement, not because it does anything that this stack is trying to do. Although, it is pretty interesting, that Souvenaid. It's pretty close to the exact stack that Mr Happy talked about on this stack. This is likely another example of someone taking research conducted on Longecity, tweaking a few things, then patenting it and selling it as a dietary supplement.

 

That, or they just added selenium and removed milk protein from baby formula.

 

Oh, and it's also ludicrously overpriced. Buying the supplements in bulk separately could have you a month's supply for the same price, instead of only 4 days worth.


Edited by Jeoshua, 16 April 2014 - 09:04 PM.


#2505 DamnedOwl

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:12 PM

Selenium has been shown to have some effects in combination E that fight off Alzheimer's. That's why it's in that anti-alzheimer's supplement, not because it does anything that this stack is trying to do. Although, it is pretty interesting, that Souvenaid. It's pretty close to the exact stack that Mr Happy talked about on this stack. This is likely another example of someone taking research conducted on Longecity, tweaking a few things, then patenting it and selling it as a dietary supplement.

 

That, or they just added selenium and removed milk protein from baby formula.

 

Oh, and it's also ludicrously overpriced. Buying the supplements in bulk separately could have you a month's supply for the same price, instead of only 4 days worth.

 

I think the first link on the first page of this thread references Wurtman et al. at MIT who are the guys behind Souvenaid, and their research dates back quite some time.



#2506 Jeoshua

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:16 PM

Oh, so it is. I hadn't noticed that.

 

Still extremely expensive tho. I found 4 bottles for $31. The dosage suggests that they are meant to be taken every day. For that price I could easily buy a months supply of everything except the Fish Oil, and it wouldn't be much more than twice as expensive, overall, to get all the ingredients and a bottle of high quality, high DHA supplements.



#2507 DamnedOwl

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

Hideously expensive, just like Natural Stacks' CILTEP blend, and practically every other single blend the components of which can be obtained for a fraction of the price.

 

People will pay a LOT of money for the convenience of not having to weigh out the ingredients for themselves and make up their own pills.



#2508 Jeoshua

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:47 PM

Philistines! That's half the fun!


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#2509 cortexian4

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:06 AM

it's been 3 days since I take Uridine + CDP choline + omega3 + phosphatidylserine(since 2 weeks ago)stack

but as many people say, I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this.

 

1. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog. 

 

2. what about ALPHA GPC or ALCAR?? instead of cdp choline??

 

3. after taking uridine sublingually, I felt some mental clarity. is this happens to other people??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2510 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:34 AM

I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog.

 

First identify whether it is actually CDP choline that causes the brain fog or not. (=Stop taking the choline, but keep taking the other parts of the stack). If stopping choline fixes the brain fog, then you can experiment with a smaller amount of choline and see if there is a sweet spot, or whether you do not need supplemental choline at all.



#2511 swen

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:23 PM

 

I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog.

 

First identify whether it is actually CDP choline that causes the brain fog or not. (=Stop taking the choline, but keep taking the other parts of the stack). If stopping choline fixes the brain fog, then you can experiment with a smaller amount of choline and see if there is a sweet spot, or whether you do not need supplemental choline at all.

 

 

CDP choline doesn't agree with me either. Alpha GPC or ALCAR are fine. So experimenting with other choline sources may also be a good option. 



#2512 hephaestus

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:38 PM

I seem to get intermittent results from all cholinergic supplements. Occasionally they work well but I sometimes I get brain fog even from ALCAR.



#2513 Godof Smallthings

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:37 PM

 

 

I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog.

 

First identify whether it is actually CDP choline that causes the brain fog or not. (=Stop taking the choline, but keep taking the other parts of the stack). If stopping choline fixes the brain fog, then you can experiment with a smaller amount of choline and see if there is a sweet spot, or whether you do not need supplemental choline at all.

 

 

CDP choline doesn't agree with me either. Alpha GPC or ALCAR are fine. So experimenting with other choline sources may also be a good option. 

 

 

That's true. But it would be smart to first see if completely stopping choline or reducing the dose solves the problem, that way he could avoid spending money for supplements he may not need.



#2514 cortexian4

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:40 PM

 

 

 

I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog.

 

First identify whether it is actually CDP choline that causes the brain fog or not. (=Stop taking the choline, but keep taking the other parts of the stack). If stopping choline fixes the brain fog, then you can experiment with a smaller amount of choline and see if there is a sweet spot, or whether you do not need supplemental choline at all.

 

 

CDP choline doesn't agree with me either. Alpha GPC or ALCAR are fine. So experimenting with other choline sources may also be a good option. 

 

 

That's true. But it would be smart to first see if completely stopping choline or reducing the dose solves the problem, that way he could avoid spending money for supplements he may not need.

 

 

thanks for the reply

 

I experimented last few days. I almost certain my headaches was due to CDP choline

after sleep, I took phosphatidylserine, uridine, omega 3, magnesium.

 

nothing happend. just clear feeling.

and then took cdp choline, brain fog noticed again.

 

 

maybe I should try alpha gpc, or ALCAR+ALA

 

which one would be better ??

and long-term(more than a year maybe) side effects ??

(I chose cdp choline because lot of academic research confirm it's safe in the long-run.. compared to alpha gpc. and alcar)



#2515 swen

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:57 AM

 

 

 

I also noticed brain fog.  little bit hot feeling in head, little dizzyness,

I think maybe cdp choline caused this. I'm hesitating whether I should take cdp choline continuously, even  cdp choline causes brain fog.

 

First identify whether it is actually CDP choline that causes the brain fog or not. (=Stop taking the choline, but keep taking the other parts of the stack). If stopping choline fixes the brain fog, then you can experiment with a smaller amount of choline and see if there is a sweet spot, or whether you do not need supplemental choline at all.

 

 

CDP choline doesn't agree with me either. Alpha GPC or ALCAR are fine. So experimenting with other choline sources may also be a good option. 

 

 

That's true. But it would be smart to first see if completely stopping choline or reducing the dose solves the problem, that way he could avoid spending money for supplements he may not need.

 

 

I certainly agree :)



#2516 Strangelove

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:46 AM

I am having bulk CDP choline powder that I dissolve in a small amount of water, every time I take it, (especially if I swirl it a little in my mouth) I feel a mental effect, there are any advantages in sublingual administration of CDP choline? Anyone using it sublingual? Surprisingly I cannot find any reports.


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#2517 hephaestus

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:12 PM

It should be absorbed more quickly and skip first pass liver metabolism. I'm not sure the liver does much to it though.



#2518 Frigo

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:36 PM

Today I learned that Krill Oil contains EPA and DHA bound in Phospholipids, mainly Phosphatidylcholine. Perfect for the Uridine stack!

 



#2519 Babychris

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 06:53 AM

Ok I just received my UMP, mmm just can I megadose it before bed or it's a useless action ? 



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#2520 Shinsou

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:06 AM

Was using the UMP from nootropicsdepot for 3 weeks now. Twice daily and my mucosa got burned, guess there really are some unwanted fillers in their batch..

 

When taking the UMP 5-10 mins after my fish oil I got headaches over night now.

Hopefully that's a sign for neural regrowth ;)


Edited by Shinsou, 29 April 2014 - 08:07 AM.






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