2844 replies to this topic

[Xenthide]

...Well, I don't see any reason there should be too much interaction so I have started out with 200mg UMP today.

 

I have another question though, does anyone know what the reason is that it is advised in the first post to wait 2 weeks before beginning supplementation with Choline?

 

I used to take CDP Choline daily anyway but I have stopped for about a week prior to beginning this.

[hephaestus]

I think it is just to avoid choline overload. If you were already taking it without issues then it's probably fine to continue.

Edited by hephaestus, 09 September 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Xenthide]

Thanks, since posting this I also found some other info on page 83, where someone suggests that it is so you can get used to the effects of Uridine. I see the rationale so I guess I might give myself a few days.

 

So far I haven't really felt anything from the Uridine I don't think, except, perhaps, some brain fog this morning which persisted until probably 5 hours or so after dosing (can't be 100% sure this was the Uridine as I have been suffering some motivational issues recently, and have just quit another few week cycle of some racetams, which inevitably eventually just give me brain fog, I have to conclude, although they start quite brightly).

 

I thought 200mg was a good UMP starting point per dose but perhaps it needs some adjustment, anyway I'll wait and see, obviously day 1 is much too soon to draw any real conclusions.

[Xenthide]

I still haven't quite had the time to wade through all 88 pages of this thread but I have another question - should UMP dosage be once or twice daily? I see on the first page it is suggested to dose twice daily, but somewhere else in the thread MrHappy tells someone that "once a day should be fine." So which is it, and why?

[pbandy1]

So I see that most, if not all, of the uridine studies were done on rats/gerbils/etc. According to examine.com, "There are some interspecies differences in the metabolism of CDP-Choline. While it is consistently degraded completely, in rats the two products created are cytidine and Choline found in systemic circulation and the brain whereas in humans the two products are Uridine and choline; supplemental CDP-choline (500-2000mg) in humans increases plasma uridine concentrations (101-136%) without detectable increases in cytidine. This is accredited to rapid conversion of cytidine into uridine in humans."

So correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that scientists NEED to use uridine in their studies when looking for an effect on rats, and cannot use cdp-choline as it will not create uridine and choline, but cytidine and choline? i.e. do humans even need to supplement with uridine, won't cdp-choline suffice just fine?

[Bateau]

So I see that most, if not all, of the uridine studies were done on rats/gerbils/etc. According to examine.com, "There are some interspecies differences in the metabolism of CDP-Choline. While it is consistently degraded completely, in rats the two products created are cytidine and Choline found in systemic circulation and the brain whereas in humans the two products are Uridine and choline; supplemental CDP-choline (500-2000mg) in humans increases plasma uridine concentrations (101-136%) without detectable increases in cytidine. This is accredited to rapid conversion of cytidine into uridine in humans."

So correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that scientists NEED to use uridine in their studies when looking for an effect on rats, and cannot use cdp-choline as it will not create uridine and choline, but cytidine and choline? i.e. do humans even need to supplement with uridine, won't cdp-choline suffice just fine?

 

Yes CDP-choline will work great as a prodrug for both choline and uridine. Just add fish oil and you got the simplistic version on the happy stack.

 

Alpha-GPC has been shown to have greater effects on vesicular acetylcholine transporters in rodent brains compared to CDP-choline, when provided in doses that were equipotent r.e. providing choline, which suggests that the glycerophosphate has its own unique benefits separate from choline or uridine, implying that Alpha GPC & uridine monophosphate should provide superior effects compared to CDP choline.

 

 

 

In the striatum and cortex the protein content of the vesicular acetylcholine transporter appears to be increased and while this applied to both CDP-choline and Alpha-GPC, the increase in the transporter with Alpha-GPC appeared to apply to all tested brain regions.[36][37] This implicates the glycerophosphate moiety, as the dosages (325mg/kg CDP-choline and 100mg/kg Alpha-GPC) were matched for choline content

→ source (external link)

 

[Nootropic Milk Hotel]

After a few months of use, I'm disappointed in this stack. I'm sure it's helpful for some people, but all it seems to do to me is make my dreams slightly more vivid. At least my arthritic symptoms died down significantly. I have done a lot of searching, but I can't find any consensus about how uridine relates to autism or to stimulants other than caffeine. For instance, some sources seem to claim that uridine is a helpful supplement for those on the spectrum, and others say most of them have excess uridine already; similarly, some studies found that uridine enhances the effectiveness of amphetamines, and others the opposite. I drink several cups of green tea per day, and I don't know if that's enough caffeine to interfere with UMP. I should try going without uridine for a few days to see if I notice a difference in the effectiveness of my Vyvanse.

Speaking of autism: I have read that it has recently been found to correlate with an excess of synapses and an inability to cull them. Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting this, but wouldn't that imply that for an autistic person to use something like the Happy Stack to increase synapse growth would be counterproductive?

Edited by Nootropic Milk Hotel, 15 September 2014 - 05:06 PM.

[Puppeteer]

Hi guys. Just popping by to ask a quick question; not really feeling "with it" enough to comb through this massive thread to find an answer for this.

I'm wondering how much of the recommended B vitamins, folate and B12, are necessary to ensure one's safety when taking this stack. If I'm hitting the RDI with a multivitamin is that adequate, or does this stack require exceeding the RDI?

[Strangelove]

Anyone bought uridine from nootropic depot recently? A past batch was bad quality, very acidic, solvent smell, sticking together... I heard they got better quality a while ago, because they have the best price by far, I am interested to confirm that their quality is good.

[Strangelove]

After a few months of use, I'm disappointed in this stack. I'm sure it's helpful for some people, but all it seems to do to me is make my dreams slightly more vivid. At least my arthritic symptoms died down significantly. I have done a lot of searching, but I can't find any consensus about how uridine relates to autism or to stimulants other than caffeine. For instance, some sources seem to claim that uridine is a helpful supplement for those on the spectrum, and others say most of them have excess uridine already; similarly, some studies found that uridine enhances the effectiveness of amphetamines, and others the opposite. I drink several cups of green tea per day, and I don't know if that's enough caffeine to interfere with UMP. I should try going without uridine for a few days to see if I notice a difference in the effectiveness of my Vyvanse.

Speaking of autism: I have read that it has recently been found to correlate with an excess of synapses and an inability to cull them. Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting this, but wouldn't that imply that for an autistic person to use something like the Happy Stack to increase synapse growth would be counterproductive?

 

How old is the autistic person you are speaking for? There is anything at all to suspect may have a gut infection (or infections in general), issues with their immune system, allergies?

[hephaestus]

I got some of the same crappy batch and posted here and on reddit about it a few times. Someone from nootropics depot responded to both reddit posts saying they were going to investigate but I never heard anything back. I probably won't be buying anything from them again. I ordered 100g from superior nutraceuticals instead.

[gee]

Hello,

 

finally joining this topic (and the forum)!

I've been reading for some time, even tried this stack last fall with no result, but I was taking other stuff too... or maybe TAU was just no good for me?

 

This time, I'm focusing more on the stack and using UMP.

 

My issue?

For about the past 2-3 years I've been fairly much not interested in anything, apathy etc.. and for the past year fairly depressed.

I think the worse part came from last year when I was doing Adderal AND tyrosine every day, I assume I wreaked my dopamine receptors and don't have much DA floating these days... On adderal I feel great but without I feel great as long as I'm on my couch but being outside.. having to talk to people... oh damn!

 

The basic issue started at least a year before I went on the Adderal/Tyrosine journey, I was on modafinil and various other bodybuilding supplements (especially DAA which i'm guessing was also not that good for me).

 

I have been on uridine UMP, vitamin e, omega 3, C, multi-vit and b-complex for about a week but not really feeling much.

(I also take zinc and magnesium at night, and ginseng in the afternoon)

Actually the best I found so far is megadosing on Zinc some days (like 120-180mg), it kind of makes me feel like being on Adderal, but to a lesser extent. When I do that, I finally do the things I need to do (like cleaning my place, folding my clothes etc...) but it doesn't last for ever, and I don't believe it's a good fix either. There are 2 potential reasons why zinc would help, either boosting my thyroid or the fact that it is necessary for dopamine. No clue which one it is...

 

Question:

Would it be useful to add Inositol and/or sulbutiamine to the mix? And if so when?

I am waiting for the end of week 2 to start choline.

Should I start with pure choline, or add ALCAR as well?

 

Thanks!

Edited by gee, 19 September 2014 - 03:01 AM.

[hephaestus]

Too much choline can cause depression so I would be careful of that. High hyperforin St. John's Wort like Perika might help you.

[gee]

That is true, I don't seem to work that well with choline, but I'm hoping that uridine might change that.

[hephaestus]

Probably not, uridine administration increases CDP-choline levels in the brain.

 

http://examine.com/s...ine/#summary8-0

 

I take some bitartrate but I've never reacted particularly well to AGPC or CDP.

Edited by hephaestus, 19 September 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[gee]

Hmmm I see.

I could always take some racetams, but I am not yet at a place where I want to "depend" on them.

Noopept could be an option, but I didn't feel like it was really dependent on choline..

[Xenthide]

Does anyone know why exactly it is some people don't react well to Choline and/or Uridine?

 

I tried this stack but had to give up after about a week because the Uridine was just making me depressed.

 

I don't react well to doses of CDP Choline above about 250mg, so I am thinking now perhaps it is not Uridine I don't respond well to, but CDP Choline. I have yet to try Alpha GPC.

 

Anyway, I know it is very briefly mentioned at the start of the thread that some people might be "overmethylators", but whether or not this is the reason, what exactly does a bad reaction to Uridine or some choline sources mean? Are we forever excluded from the supposed benefits of this stack, or what?

[gee]

I've been feeling quite tired lately, I wonder if I shouldn't take uridine in the morning, only at night.

Or maybe it's unrelated...

 

At first I felt that I slept much better with it, but now nothing special.

[chris7900]

hey guys !

 

first, thank you very much mrhappy for this thread and all the guys who contributed with their posts, you give me some hope.

 

i am going to order gpc, uridine and sulbutiamine, should be here in 2-3 weeks.

 

i already did a search on my quesions, couldn't find any clear answer.

 

first i have realy severe dopamin deficiency (including anehdonia and non treatable major depression), high choline deficiency(symptoms of alzheimers and dementia, brain is working extremly slow ect.) , and high gaba deficiency. i got serotonin in check with 5 htp, magnesium, selenium ect. for about 8 months.

 

so im gonna try this stack for my dopamin and acetylcholine issues.

i also ordered a high gaba stack, wich i will comsume 45 mins after taking the uridine stack, and i will do 30mins of maditation, to establish a balance.

healthy diet and 40-60minutes sport / day is also in the program.

 

1. the question is now can i take sulbutiamine with this stack or should i try it seperatly ? anyone has any ideas on that ? otherwise i will try it out and report back so we have information on the subject.

i've only read earlier in the trhead that sulbutiamine has effect on the D1 receptors, while uridine stack has effect on d2 receptors. although its not that simple since both substances also have effects on the mammalian and reptilian brain, not only the neocortex.

 

2. i'm also thinking about taking high dose sulbutiamine and high dose gpc ~1.5-3g / day for maybe 2-3 weeks in order to have the system up a bit, before starting the uridine stack.

 

3. how about egcg ? the one from now foods contains 4mg coffeine, i'd like to take egcg, for the catechins and comt inhibition, in addition to the uridine stack, or is there any interfirence ?

 

4. i'm thinking to visit a neurologist, although they wont take me serious as they did in the past, since im 24 years old and externaly i look healthy (gym & sports), but just in case i manage to convince him that i have a serious problem and he prescribes me an dopamin agonist for short term 1-2 months , does it make any sense to take the agonist together with uridine stack ?

 

Edited by chris7900, 23 September 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[gee]

All I can say from experience, is that it's not a great idea to start too many supplements at once. You'll never know which does good and which does bad. Maybe the combo is not as good as just some of them together... etc. On the other hand since the good/bad effects could happen weeks after starting a supplement, that makes it a little hard to find a bullet proof planning...

[thomasanderson2]

Uridine Withdrawal?

 

Has anyone experienced adverse effects upon cessation of uridine?

I'm now experiencing light-headedness, "un-energized" brain... maybe even slight "blackout" sensation and general malaise.

Symptoms started about 3 to 4 days after I ran out of supply and abruptly discontinued use of uridine (UMP sublingual about 250 mg / day)

 

Other possibilities are simply been under a lots of stress and tension

- or my doctor suggested there is a virus or bug going around without classic respiratory symptoms (I'd not told him about the uridine)

 

Anyone with any ideas on this?

Thanks!

[gee]

I'm at my 2 weeks and not yet into adding choline to the mix (since in the past I wasn't very good with it).

Do people have a good stack including inositol and sulbutiamine? These seem like they would be very interesting to add to this stack.

The fact that the first page doesn't add them probably is for a reason though, but which?

[gee]

ok let's try something else.

I'm coming to my 3rd week and planning on starting choline.

When is the best time to take it?

Split dose or full?

 

Thanks!

[ken_shiro]

Hi.

I haven't read all the 3d.

I am taking fish oil as source of DHA and EPA.

Someone know a chip vegetable source of DHA and EPA? And a reliable seller too.

 

thanks

[gee]

You have Ovega-3, I'm sure i've had other brands too but at this point I cannot find them anymore sorry

[dudmuck]

There is this good description about the differences between plant sources of omega-3 vs animal sources.  Also, there was this thread covering some of the plant sources of omega-3.

[gee]

I disagree with the blog post, algae extract are a perfect plant source of omega-3.

That's how the fishes get it themselves.

Everything about ALA is true though.

[nootrop1097]

does any one know how much uridine in beer, just wondering

[typ3z3r0]

Beer, usually said to be 0.05mg/mL (210.6+/-27.2umol/L) although greater concentrations (91-161mg/L) have been noted when using more samples from different breweries

→ source (external link)

[Strangelove]

Any reliable source for good quality/price cdp choline for bulk purchase, 250grams to 1 kilo?

 

Anyone tried the cdp choline from nootropics depot?