57 replies to this topic

[unregistered_user]

Let me preamble this post by saying that I read through the LongeCity constitution looking for any rule prohibiting discussion regarding illicit substances for which I could find none.

Additionally, I know this topic has been discussed on other fora but I tend to have a certain respect for the contributors here and happen to feel the community as a whole isn't biased towards any school of thinking. Would it be possible to have this discussion while maintaining an objectivity? I'm not advocating the use of illegal drugs but I am interested in LSD's potential as a nootropic when consumed in very small doses (eg: 1/8 of a hit to clear one's headspace, give energy, and lift mood.)

I've never used LSD and would be incredibly trepidatious to try it but am curious nonetheless. I'm sure some users here have first hand knowledge.

[unregistered_user]

As an aside, the long running 13-page thread on bluelight shows overwhelmingly positive feedback for low-dose LSD as a cognitive and mood enhancer. This doesn't surprise me... considering the nature of the community but I will say I am intrigued which is why I wanted the perspective of this community.

[Dirk_Diggler]

A small dose of LSD would probably be something close to 10-40 mcg. A "hit" is somewhere around 100-300mcg, depending on the source.

Using it as a nootropic? I don't know about that one. I would say it may have some potential, but probably not.

If you do decide to experiment, PLEASE be careful and let us know how it goes.

There's a thread on drugs-forum.com talking about LSD being used as a nootropic. And there's a few who say it does increase creativity, and then others that disagree. I don't think it would have any effect on intelligence, but could potentially increase your creativity much like listening to classical music does. Listening to classical music would probably be safer, though

I'd like to hear from someone who has some experience taking small doses.

[Ampa-omega]

if lsd doesnt work for you, you might opt for hydergine or nicergoline they are both ergoline derivatives, it might be reccomended to look into the racetams for creativity if thats what your after, or other things instead for the 5htp receptor.

[unregistered_user]

I went through a box of Hydergine and gained little benefit from it. I might be willing to try again.

Here is the thread I referenced above: The Low-Dose LSD Appreciation Thread

[QuantumTubule]

Hey, I dont think talking about classed drugs that a deemed to have 'No medical use' is a good idea for the community of Nootropic users. The reason I say this is that powerful groups are strongly opposed to nootropics in general and more so with illicits, thats why there illicit after all. Having these conservations is all very well and good but at what cost, do you want methylene blue or Piracetam removed from the market. These forums are heavily watched, if your interested try it but dont discuss it publicly.

[Dirk_Diggler]

Hey, I dont think talking about classed drugs that a deemed to have 'No medical use' is a good idea for the community of Nootropic users. The reason I say this is that powerful groups are strongly opposed to nootropics in general and more so with illicits, thats why there illicit after all. Having these conservations is all very well and good but at what cost, do you want methylene blue or Piracetam removed from the market. These forums are heavily watched, if your interested try it but dont discuss it publicly.

The focus of the community (and more specifically this forum) is to discuss possible nootropics and how/if/why they work. Just because something is illicit we should keep it censored? WTF? You're entitled to your opinion and I certainly respect that, but just because some people think a substance is bad, we shouldn't all be confined to keep it to ourselves. Hell, 20 years ago there was no medical marijuana and most people were opposed to it being legal. But now look at the situation. Not saying that's the case with LSD in this situation, but your logic doesn't hold water.

So you're saying just by talking about a possible nootropic effect of LSD that we're endangering ALL of the nootropics? That's a stretch...to say the least.

This thread is EXACTLY what these forums are for. LSD as a nootropic probably isn't really going to work, but that's the point. We won't know unless we try and/or talk about it. He said that he read the rules of the forum and he's not breaking any rules by posting this.

And if this thread or something similar gets methylene blue or piracetam removed from the market, I'll kiss your ass and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd.

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 10 October 2011 - 10:06 AM.

[Geovicsha]

Taking only a mini dose of LSD would be interesting. More so for creativity rather than memory, I’d say.

Edited by chrono, 10 October 2011 - 01:08 PM.

[Ampa-omega]

there is possibility of nootropic effect at low doses, i am interested in hearing discussion about it ,but i am concerned about the abuse potential, many people tend to have a hard time not taking larger amounts, perhaps instead you could look into weaker substances instead of lower doses of more powerful substances just for a suggestion in case.

[chrono]

My policy on threads like this is that it's fine to discuss mechanisms and pharmacology, and its effects as it pertains to cognitive enhancement (as opposed to more general properties and experiences). As in, no reminiscing about that time you watched The Wall . I realize that's not a clear line, but I feel it's a necessary compromise for a site like this, so don't be offended if I edit content a lot more strictly than in other threads.

There was another thread about this topic last year, with a lot of good discussion. Not sure yet if I'll merge them.

Edited by chrono, 10 October 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[Geovicsha]

Haha. Understandable.

[maxwatt]

50 mcg is an 8 hour trip, undesirable. 10 mcg might be low dose. 40 I am sure would be way too much for most people.
Many perceptual experiments were run with lsd in the 60's before it became impossible to get approval for research. My recollection is they indicated that it would make a cognitive enhancer at low doses. The drug is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but which of many serotonin receptors it acts on I don't know. And concomitantly with an MAO inhibitor, it is possibly dangerous.

Morning glory seeds contain some lysergic acid, and I have seen some indication that it might improve some abilities, but the downside of too much is nausea and vomiting. One person told me 40 years ago that taking 10 seeds, improved his billiards and pool games immensely, and the effect lasted, though diminished, when the herb wore off. I witnessed the improvement. It was uncanny how quickly he could line up three-rail shots, where a day before he seldom succeeded after long consideration. Indicates physical coordination as well as perceptual abilities improved. If it can be replicated.

[pycnogenol]

Just follow this woman's lead and see what happens...

http://www.snotr.com...48/LSD_Research

[hippocampus]

I don't know if it's nootropic, but it's good for OCD, as are psilocybe mushrooms . If you take a decent dose, the effects may be longer lasting, at least two days to a week for most people, but with frequent use it can cure OCD for months or years. It is also well documented in scientific literature, so I won't post any links, just use google scholar or sth like that.

I once tried low dose of psilocybe (0,3 gram) with piracetam (800 mg). I didn't hallucinate, but it was amazing, I felt like that I've been meditating or sth like that and I was just amazed by everything (e.g. I looked at the door and they looked so amazing and new though I wasn't hallucinating). It's hard to explain if you haven't had any psychedelic experience. Worth trying but it's all about set and setting.

I also read that one woman used psilocybe for OCD, once a week ("hallucinatory" dose) but after a year or so it didn't work anymore ...
http://www.shroomery...c-d-nearly-gone

Also if you take SSRIs, serotonergic psychedelics won't work. And if you take MAOIs the effects will be much longer lasting (e.g. DMT effects last only about 10-20 minutes but if you take syrian rue they last for 4 hours or more).

It is hard to take really small dose of LSD, so I think it's better to try with mushrooms, they are much easier to dose.

[nowayout]

New research on therapeutic use of psychedelics:

http://www.nytimes.c...ychedelics.html

[hippocampus]

Nothing new really, that's been known for forty years (and for other illicite drugs like MDMA, ibogaine, ketamine and so on, too) ... but we all know what happened with Timothy Leary and hippies. "Come together ..."

[QuantumTubule]

MaxWatt

The drug is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor

This is incorrect, LSD is a very high affinity but weak serotonin antagonist, this however will cause Serotonin reuptake inhibtion through hormosis.
The activity is mixed but the agonist action is more expressed on presynaptic receptors in the raphe nuclei, this is equivalent to a antagonist action. postsynaptic receptors the action is antagonist in general. Both effects are therefore antagonist on global serotonin function.
If you dont agree compare the effects on Tianeptine and LSD, they are very close and one would expect a SSRE to have similar activity to a sero antagonsit.

Dirk_Diggler

And if this thread or something similar gets methylene blue or piracetam removed from the market, I'll kiss your ass and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd.

Sweet, I think you owe one arse kissing. But I will get on to that.Do you know how many good nootropic products have been removed from the market and yes benefits censored. Take a look at Vitamins for a start, gees, almost all the correct forms are prescription drugs or atleast not commonly avialiable, and the "vitamins" in your tipical pill are composed of various analouge that usually decrease health. Theres definitly more vitamins than is accepted by the State, PPQ for instance.

The fact is that methylene blue has been from removed from the market for a long time already, its pretty obvious that it benefits on cognition have been known for along time. After all the designed Anti psyc after it in the 1950s, while making these antagonist.

I know that im right, not really prepared to say more tho. Wake up

[AbolishtheState]

...
Dirk_Diggler

And if this thread or something similar gets methylene blue or piracetam removed from the market, I'll kiss your ass and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd.

Sweet, I think you owe one arse kissing. But I will get on to that.Do you know how many good nootropic products have been removed from the market and yes benefits censored. Take a look at Vitamins for a start, gees, almost all the correct forms are prescription drugs or atleast not commonly avialiable, and the "vitamins" in your tipical pill are composed of various analouge that usually decrease health. Theres definitly more vitamins than is accepted by the State, PPQ for instance.

The fact is that methylene blue has been from removed from the market for a long time already, its pretty obvious that it benefits on cognition have been known for along time. After all the designed Anti psyc after it in the 1950s, while making these antagonist.

I know that im right, not really prepared to say more tho. Wake up

I agree that the FDA and other state institutions are more than willing to ban various safe and effective supplements, herbs, nootropics, etc, but that gives us all the more reason to fight back. Change is never going to occur, if we're all afraid to discuss our interests even on the internet. Are we not self-owning individuals? Do we not have the right to do with our bodies and our lives as we please, assuming we do not interfere with the right of others to do the same? The only way we will gain influence and respect for the transhumanist movement is by bringing discussions and studies, such as those occuring in this topic and others, to the forefront. Why should we have to censor our topics of inquiry based on arbitrarily defined rules of conduct imposed on us by a coercive organization calling itself government? Who really needs to wake up here?

Edited by AbolishtheState, 11 October 2011 - 01:20 AM.

[unregistered_user]

MaxWatt

The drug is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor

This is incorrect, LSD is a very high affinity but weak serotonin antagonist, this however will cause Serotonin reuptake inhibtion through hormosis.
The activity is mixed but the agonist action is more expressed on presynaptic receptors in the raphe nuclei, this is equivalent to a antagonist action. postsynaptic receptors the action is antagonist in general. Both effects are therefore antagonist on global serotonin function.
If you dont agree compare the effects on Tianeptine and LSD, they are very close and one would expect a SSRE to have similar activity to a sero antagonsit.

Dirk_Diggler

And if this thread or something similar gets methylene blue or piracetam removed from the market, I'll kiss your ass and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd.

Sweet, I think you owe one arse kissing. But I will get on to that.Do you know how many good nootropic products have been removed from the market and yes benefits censored. Take a look at Vitamins for a start, gees, almost all the correct forms are prescription drugs or atleast not commonly avialiable, and the "vitamins" in your tipical pill are composed of various analouge that usually decrease health. Theres definitly more vitamins than is accepted by the State, PPQ for instance.

The fact is that methylene blue has been from removed from the market for a long time already, its pretty obvious that it benefits on cognition have been known for along time. After all the designed Anti psyc after it in the 1950s, while making these antagonist.

I know that im right, not really prepared to say more tho. Wake up

I don't want this thread derailed by arguing the ethics of having this conversation so I won't bother elaborating on why I disagree with you. Let's just please keep discussion germane to the topic.

I think the "Hoffman Cocktail" sounds particularly interesting. That is, take a few hits of LSD, drop them in like 500ml of distilled, deionized water (with a tiny bit of ascorbic acid in there for oxidative protection) in a light-proof bottle and put the bottle in the fridge. Then every day, take a couple of swigs for a nice, low-dose nootropic effect. In essence, what you are doing here is using it as a non-visual psychedelic--something that expands cognition, sans any "hallucinogenic" trippy perceptual effects. Apparently, this became Hofmann's favorite way of using LSD, rather than taking it in mindfuck, full immersive doses.

[JD.]

I think MICRO doses is the key here... I also agree that mushrooms might be a better option than acid because dosing would be easier.

Beware taking doses in the ~one hit range, you can get into an edgy state where you are too altered to go about your business normally and relate to sober people but not high enough to have any fun with it.

[Luminosity]

There's plenty of experience to show that taking LSD for any reason, in any dose is NOT a good idea. For one thing, this isn't made in a factory, so you could get a bad dose. For another, different people react differently at different times. Just don't risk it.

[unregistered_user]

There's plenty of experience to show that taking LSD for any reason, in any dose is NOT a good idea.

Can you go into more detail on this statement? Apart from a bad trip (which seems unlikely at the doses in question) what are the harmful effects of LCD?

[revenant]

Sorry,EDIT: redundant post

Edited by revenant, 11 October 2011 - 05:57 AM.

[Luminosity]

Really? Some people have had to be placed in mental hospitals. Some people have become schizophrenic from LSD use. Some people get brain damage.

[AbolishtheState]

Really? Some people have had to be placed in mental hospitals. Some people have become schizophrenic from LSD use. Some people get brain damage.

Some people die every day from smoking cigarettes. Some people die every day from driving cars. Some people die every day in their sleep. Should we ban smoking, driving, and sleeping? LSD is a powerfully psychoactive substance with strong effects on cognitive function and emotion. If one is not careful, it can lead to horribly unpleasant experiences and can trigger the expression of latent psychological disorders. However, it has also been used quite effectively to treat psychological disorders. It, like any other substance that affects the mind, must be used responsibly and with great caution. In the end, each individual has the right to determine which substances to ingest, regardless of your feelings and government dictates to the contrary.

[hippocampus]

Really? Some people have had to be placed in mental hospitals. Some people have become schizophrenic from LSD use. Some people get brain damage.

Some people felt great and had wonderful experience, some people found meaning of life ...

[pycnogenol]

There's plenty of experience to show that taking LSD for any reason, in any dose is NOT a good idea.

I've only had very good experiences taking LSD but everyone is different.

For one thing, this isn't made in a factory, so you could get a bad dose.

You have a good point. Agreed.

[unregistered_user]

Really? Some people have had to be placed in mental hospitals. Some people have become schizophrenic from LSD use. Some people get brain damage.

You made a sweeping statement so I was calling you on it. As the other responders have pointed out, LSD can be used in great ways as well. Besides, we're not talking about high doses here. I know you are playing chemical Russian Roulette when it comes to LSD due to possible contaminants, unknown potency, etc which is why I'm not advocating this as a good nootropic solution. I am just curious about its effects on cognition and mood in low doses.


I hear pure LSD-25 is unlike anything you might find in today's blotters. If only I could procure the stuff they manufactured for use in clinical settings.... I might be willing to try it in a low dose. These days, who knows if what you're getting is actual LSD or some stupid research chemical like Bromo-DragonFLY which I've heard can make you feel like you're being dragged to hell and back for 14 hours...or worse.


For a substance capable of allowing you to experience a profundity in self enlightenment and introspection that you couldn't conceive of otherwise, it's interesting to think what even a minuscule dose is capable of as far as cognition is concerned.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 11 October 2011 - 09:45 PM.

[hippocampus]

does anybody have any experience with other psychedelics (salvia, MDMA, mescaline, DMT, ketamine) regarding nootropic effects?

[thedevinroy]

From what I understand, it is at 1 to 5 micrograms it would cause a slight and noticeable antidepressant and stimulating effect. It is an agonist at most serotonin receptors, Alpha1&2 Adrenergic receptors, and D1&2 Dopaminergic receptors. See this: http://www.erowid.or...howDoc1&ID=6318 pages 160 and 161. The method of action listed on Wikipedia is quite vague and includes increased glutamate activity, and I see no mention of antagonistic properties, only agonistic.

I would not risk it. It seems alright, especially with the Alpha2 agonism and indirect glutamatergic reaction, but I wouldn't chance getting into trouble or not getting the right stuff. If you do want to get into it, ask a trusted friend for his trusted source. Don't just "hey mister" at a fine arts college, or you'll get an expensive fistful of useless paper strips. My friends once got "LSD" indirectly from a slightly-better-than-a-stranger and ended up extremely sick the next day with migraines so bad they were puking.