57 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

I'm pretty sure this experiment would be almost impossible with any "street" quality LSD. The dosages in a tab of paper, or a drop of liquid vary greatly from batch to batch (and source) with no real way to measure them. Not to mention verifying that it is in fact LSD. It would be possible and interesting with a supply of pre-diluted pharmaceutical doses but I don't see that becoming available anytime soon.

[unregistered_user]

I'm pretty sure this experiment would be almost impossible with any "street" quality LSD. The dosages in a tab of paper, or a drop of liquid vary greatly from batch to batch (and source) with no real way to measure them. Not to mention verifying that it is in fact LSD. It would be possible and interesting with a supply of pre-diluted pharmaceutical doses but I don't see that becoming available anytime soon.

This is my exact feeling.

[Spice]

This being my first post here, I'm going to try not to get banned...



The two words I would use describe my experiences are profound and therapeutic. I had a sever bout of situational depression completely alleviated with in 10 hours. I shared an experience that, as a direct result, grew into one of my closest and dearest friendships. I always came out better then when I went in.

Conversely, I have a friend that suffered traumatic emotional damage.



In retrospect, and despite my fortunate results, it was foolish and I would sincerely caution against experimenting with any illegal substances.

While I don't doubt there is a very real potential for healing, growth, and self improvement... at this time the only quality and safety measures are keeping you around to buy more. If LSD and psilocybin have a therapeutic future, it needs to be in a controlled clinical environment.



In my opinion the effects do (perhaps loosely) fit the description of a cognitive enhancer, inconsistently producing increased creativity, hyperfocus, heightened awareness, stimulation, feelings of well being, and a laundry list of other interesting phenomena.

[platypus]

Really? Some people have had to be placed in mental hospitals. Some people have become schizophrenic from LSD use. Some people get brain damage.

LSd in non-toxic so how could it cause "brain-damage"?

[platypus]

Psychedelic are being used to enhance cognition and performance in the real world:

http://www.maps.org/...21n1-25to29.pdf

http://www.maps.org/...ody_connection/

[Dirk_Diggler]

Well I hate to bring up an old thread, but LSD definately has some promise of being a nootropic. Low doses would probably be much better and efficient, but even that guy in the 70's pitched a NO HITTER in Major League Baseball. And he was definately on a MUCH bigger dose than normal people would take.

[rwac]

The drug is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but which of many serotonin receptors it acts on I don't know.

Look what I ran across a few minutes ago. Lower value is higher affinity i think.

 LSDaffinities.GIF   12.98KB   75 downloads

Edited by rwac, 06 November 2011 - 08:18 AM.

[pycnogenol]

Low doses would probably be much
better and efficient, but even that guy in the 70's pitched a NO HITTER in Major League Baseball.

That would be the awesome Dock Ellis. Watch the video

http://youtu.be/_vUhSYLRw14

Edited by pycnogenol, 06 November 2011 - 01:39 PM.

[ultra-lite]

How you would do it? Dilute it in some vodka and keep in the freezer in a small glass dropper jar all glass no plastic. Buy one at your chemist/pharmacist. So you drop one small piece of paper into 500 drops of Stoli already inside the jar (yes this is no joke.) Remember to shake the suspension before each use. Keep it frozen (it will remain liquid.) Everything must be clean, washed in distilled water or washed in the vodka first and allowed to dry. Take your time do not touch with human hands. Light and heat both destroy it rapidly.

How much? Try 10 drops to start. Depending on what you are working with as little as a few drops may cause a noticeable reaction. General time to reaction is 25-40 minutes.

What to expect? ~5ug warmth, concentration, focus. You become more involved with whatever you are doing at that time. This could be writing driving cooking etc. It may be comparable to a light dose of Ephedrine. Senses are attuned. Worries are more distant.

More: ~10-20ug the filters of the mind begin to be shut down one by one and you will notice things you normally filter out. This could be that your house smells like cats or that you haven't been living up to your potential (could be many things good and bad.) May or may not be good for work depending on what it is. Probably good for creativity and solving problems but maybe not for actually building things if that makes sense. You may begin to feel a 'oneness' with your surroundings.

~20ug+ judging the passage of time is more difficult. This is probably not good for any sort of work aside from problem solving/cerebral work.

How do I know this? From hearing someone talk about this who has experience. I hope it is not a crime to discuss what I have heard. Does the idea of it frighten me? Not if you are taking 1/100th to 1/10th of a normal dose. Here we have strong doses up to 500ug sometimes stronger so that is what I mean by 1/100th. Of course you could get in trouble and that would be bad. I would rather someone do it the right way instead of thinking there is no possible way to create a dilution. I'm not sure if you can use a plastic dropper in absence of a glass one but 100% glass is the way I know works from what I heard.

In general, basic rules - be extra careful with anything involving heat/flames/cooking or running water (don't get distracted and forget to turn it off, same with the stove if you are cooking while being smart/creative.) If you want to have a real change go someplace very natural and serene. Remember that those around you may not feel the same openness that you do toward talking if you decide to go for a walk.

You can not do it every day or it will do more harm than good. I cannot say how often but 3 times in a week would be approaching if not exceeding the limit. I think failing to take long breaks (weeks at a time) sometimes would be a mistake.

I forgot to add... you drop it onto your tongue directly. It will absorb in a minute or two. You can store it frozen for many months with no loss at all. No need to thank my friend since he gets so much satisfaction from his discovery.

Edited by ultra-lite, 29 July 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

As an aside to the LSD discussion, the most brilliant chemist in this area was Alexander Shulgin, who synthesized hundreds of hallucinogens and non-hallucinogenic analogues and took most of them at various doses. He wrote about it in his encyclopedic book, Pihkal. Some of these likely have nootropic value, and some are not illegal.

More on point, there is a non-hallucinogenic analogue of LSD (2-bromo-LSD, aka BOL-148) that has been studied for its medical value. In one study, as little as three doses eliminated cluster headaches. The researchers said, "There is some evidence that BOL-148 is affecting epigenetic mechanisms and may open the possibility for a near-cure-like treatment for patients afflicted with vascular headaches."

Cluster headache attack cessation and remission extension of months or longer in six treatment-refractory patients administered only 3 doses of BOL-148

BOL-148

Edited by Turnbuckle, 29 July 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Well nootropics are meant to "enhance" cognition and memory and LSD is meant to "alter" cognition an perception, so by that alone in my opinion it can be disregarded as counter productive. But, maybe, some subjects can be better absorbed or understood in a altered states of mind, who knows, dont make sense to me. 

[hippocampus]

Yes, but effects are qualitatively different at different doses. Similarly low dose of alcohol make you more alert, talkative and extrovert, while high doses make you stupid and sleepy. Also low dose of nicotine makes you more attentive, while I can't work and think at all with high doses.

[gwern]

I would like to report the results of my randomized blind self-experiment: no benefits.

Full writeup is here: http://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing

[Reformed-Redan]

I would like to report the results of my randomized blind self-experiment: no benefits.

Full writeup is here: http://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing

Thought as much. It's all just hype about some taboo compound made by spooks in the gov.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

I've always wondered what the effect would be of combining 5-HT2A antagonists with this so-called "micordosing" of psychedelics.

[medievil]

I've always wondered what the effect would be of combining 5-HT2A antagonists with this so-called "micordosing" of psychedelics.

Ive done it. atleast i buyed some lsd and my friend took it off me and used it, i cant say hes an antagonist but definatly something more efficient, the lsd wasnt blocked but benefitted him, this strategy (aka stealing) would make us rich but our brains dont let most by giving us empathy.

In other words. nothing would happen, you just block the effects.
Ive got a thread on this subject. microdosing of psychedelics has tremendous therapeutic potential for many things, concluding solely by looking at a plethoria of anecdotes.

Edited by medievil, 19 October 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Palmer Eldritch]

Sounds like a waste of good acid...

I jest, but then again maybe not. Look, I read the first page of posts the other day, figured I would bite my tongue and stay silent, but just have to get my 2-cents in. I see there are a bunch more responses since then and I apologize for not reading them right now. I know at least one post above mine has touched on one of the points I want to make.

* I haven't done this stuff since the 90s but I was known to enjoy it quite a bit, back before the Jerry Garcia died - which makes me think I am probably a bit older than a lot of the people in this thread. In those days it was easy to get pretty damn PURE, quality 'sid. That all changed after that whole traveling circus came to a halt. I am not saying you can't get the real thing, because apparently it's still possible, all I'm saying is that since the time of my own misspent youth a whole lotta research chemicals have come along that people started putting on blotter and passing off as the real thing. If people want to *voluntarily* try that stuff then fine, but the key word is voluntarily now isn't it? You could end up with something like 2C-B or one of its relatives, or Bromo-Dragonfly. At full doses some of these have been known to cause seizes in some individuals and AFAIK we don't really know why that is. Bromo has been known to leave people tripping for days, which is something that sounds pretty awful to me even as a person with a quite a bit of experience. So unless you are hanging out with a Swiss chemist or have a super-trustworthy source, I think the idea is pretty sketchy. I am not trying to be alarmist, in fact I have noticed a few misinformed and alarmist posts on this thread. High-purity and clean acid is one of the safest drugs a person can take (the two things, purity and 'clean' are not always )the same thing with that drug but that's another story) - IF they pay attention to all the classic "set and setting" stuff that talked about back when it was legal. I used to be one of those people who thought the whole world would be a better place if everyone would just turn on and drop some acid, etc etc and so on... I don't think that way any longer, it is an intense experience and not for everyone, and the kinds of insights or 'personal development' you might have under the experience are to some degree reachable through other, non-chemical means. I get tired of STILL, twenty five years after I was into it, hearing people use scare tactics like 'you'll go crazy!' or "you may never come back.' That is and always has been largely propaganda. BUT neither is it "completely harmless" as some of its advocates sometimes assert. Due to the fact that research on it was more or less squashed in the 60s, there is a lot we don't know. But my own non-scientific opinion, based both in personal experience and in reading a fair share of technical and scientific stuff on it even if some of the jargon went over my head, is this: Acid will not "cause" schizophrenia, for example, but if you already have a genetic predisposition or some latent instability, it could be a trigger factor. The late great Syd Barrett - a brilliant and often misunderstood artist - was probably the most famous case people would use as a drug "casualty." Amidst all the sensationalism, melodrama, and tragedy in that case, his friend David Gilmour probably put it best when he said to the BBC (I am paraphrasing) - "We ALL did lots of acid back then. That's not what caused his breakdown. I think he was probably a sick person already, and maybe that helped push him over the brink, but it didn't cause it." Think about it, how much we *still* don't know about a disease like schizophrenia even in 2013. Why it effects males much more than females, for example, or why the symptoms typically do not begin until a person is in the 20s - precisely the years when a lot of young people are "experimenting." I don't agree with some of the posts I've seen implying that the only way to take it is to been in a hermetic environment akin to an experimental laboratory, however you DO want to minimize variables and the chances of unexpected events, visits from uninvited guests (of any kind), and most certainly there needs to be someone halfway experienced on the premises who can keep a reasonably cool head (helps if they stay sober too). I have seen people freak out, once really badly, and it's no walk in the park.

"Yeah, that's fine, but I was only asking about it's use a nootropic." Okay, so let's presume for the sake of argument that you DID have some that was assured to be the real deal and of good quality. My first thought when I saw your post was - well, maybe, but there is no way this could work as a regular thing. 1) Under "normal" dosage, you have to wait four or five days at least for your synapses to become chemically receptive again. It IS possible to overcome this by doubling or tripling the dosage (I know this to be true because, I confess, I tried it several times 'back in the day'.. I don't recommend it either). On a "micro dose" level I am not sure what the exact biochemical situation would be but I suspect there would still be an issue with tolerance. Perhaps you were not even suggesting it as a regular thing. Even so, 2) the stuff is illegal, and depending on what country you are in, possibly very illegal. The cops don't give a crap if you are doing nootropic experiments on yourself. Possession of more than a very small amount is a felony in the US and can get you serious jail time. And don't be misled by the phrase "more than a small amount" because the idea of "personal use only" doesn't seem to impress law enforcement when it comes to psychedelics. It does not matter *at all* to them if you have 10 hits of something super weak or something that has been triple-dipped in a bath of needlepoint. The penalty will be the same. It is treated as a more serious crime and more dangerous drug than heroin. Now, this is obviously insane, but what you or I think about the law really doesn't matter. I am just putting it out there, because honestly if you are looking to get hold of some to start dividing it up into 1/8th pieces of a hit, I`m sorry man but it just does not seem worth all the risks. I would almost like to say that if you are going to go through the trouble to get hold of that kind of thing, then you should go for the full psychedelic experience. For many people, once is enough to feel like they had a profound experience that made them into more creative people satisfied with life. But as far as keeping the stuff around on a regular basis to put in a nootropic "stack".. nope, not for me. I have seen somebody (probably here) talking about using psylocibin powder in minute quantities for just this sort of thing, however. Once again, this has no appeal to me personally, but it seems a bit more logical and definitely has more historic precedent in terms of "traditional societies" that have used one or another entheogenic substance in small doses as an aid to things like ritual or divination.

tl;dr version - Man there are just too many risks, mostly having to do with things you simply have no control over. Also, I think the notion that "drugs make you creative" is bullocks. You either are a creative person or you aren't. You can point to all the artists since the nineteenth century who are known to have used any variety of substances - take those substances away from them, and they still would have been doing something creative, I guarantee it. Their art (plastic arts, music, literature, whatever) certainly would have looked/sounded/read differently, but they still would have been making art. The idea that drug use can cultivate some kind of creativity that isn't there just results in the worst kind of pseudo-intellectual artsy posturing. In my eyes you can take substances for any variety of justifiable or legitimate reasons, but "it makes me more creative" isn't one of them. /soapbox

be safe dude, whatever you do

Edited by Palmer Eldritch, 20 October 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[mission780]

tl;dr version - Man there are just too many risks, mostly having to do with things you simply have no control over. Also, I think the notion that "drugs make you creative" is bullocks. You either are a creative person or you aren't. You can point to all the artists since the nineteenth century who are known to have used any variety of substances - take those substances away from them, and they still would have been doing something creative, I guarantee it. Their art (plastic arts, music, literature, whatever) certainly would have looked/sounded/read differently, but they still would have been making art. The idea that drug use can cultivate some kind of creativity that isn't there just results in the worst kind of pseudo-intellectual artsy posturing. In my eyes you can take substances for any variety of justifiable or legitimate reasons, but "it makes me more creative" isn't one of them. /soapbox

be safe dude, whatever you do

I think the risks are worth it! LSD in low doses can give great results. It can enhance your performance and bring the use of your skills to the maximum level. Cannabis can really make you more creative. Of course it won't turn you to genius, but at least it will multiply your current creative abilities.

[mission780]

Anybody checked what the effects of combining low dose LSD with Noopept (or other Racetam nootropics) were?

I've heard the two substances can work synergetically and can potentiate each other.

Please share your experiences!

[Ark]

LSD is a noot and there might be side effects for some it is proven to cause brain growth.

[Godof Smallthings]

EDIT: Just read the link in Gwern's post.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 07 December 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[unregistered_user]

I'd love to try microdosing LSD but I would want 100% pure, unadulterated LSD-25. The stuff being sold on blotters could be of questionable origin and composition. Maybe I just need to befriend a chemist...?

[mission780]

Anybody found a NON-psychedelic nootropic that gives effects similar to those of low-dose LSD, i.e.: clear head/sharp mind, wider perspective/deeper thinking?

Edited by mission780, 11 December 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[Babychris]

Does Mushrooms share the same sub-psychédelic benefits ?

[bebekbu]

Does Mushrooms share the same sub-psychédelic benefits ?

 

I would say so. I tried small dose of mushrooms only two times. It seemed working as a nootropic although LSD in micro-doses appeared to help achieve even more clear and focused mind for me.

There may be however a benefit of using mushrooms (Psilocybin mushroom). I remember someone speculating that mushrooms might have a smaller tolerance than LSD which would be great for regular micro-dosing. I've read a few times that mescaline have even lesser problem with tolerance. Unfortunately mescaline is difficult to get and quite expensive so I've never had a chance to try and confirm this hypothesis.

 

Anybody has more info?

[bebekbu]

Could LSD microdosing be considered a treatment/medicine for curing 'low natural level of serotonin'?

[gamesguru]

I am interested in LSD's potential as a nootropic

 

it's true and einstein once said school is the only roadblock to education.  just look at Sir John Gurdon, a Nobel Prize winner in Physiology who failed nearly every class he took in high school, once earning a measly 2/50 possible points on his chemistry mid-term.  be like John!!

Edited by gamesguru, 21 August 2017 - 11:33 PM.

[kurdishfella]

spiritual/consciousness drugs can be good but can also be bad depending on the person that takes them.