382 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

Today, I tried one drop MB in a glass of water. I am using the Kordon methylene blue product which did not come equipped with a dropper function so I had to improvise. It's been 1 hour since my first dose and I feel very drowsy. 1 drop is much higher than the 0.125 mg needed so I will adjust the dose for tomorrows dose and so on.

How should I dilute this to obtain the right amount from 2% solution???

I thought 1mg was the proper dose. where did you get the 0.125mg from ?

If you search the references in this THREAD you will find a reference to a discussion in usenet forum sci.lifextension HERE --- a pharmacist gave step by step instructions on diluting the 2.0303% Kordon's fish medicine down to the proper amount, in one drop from a medicine dropper. FWIW, this is still quite blue, but does not turn your pee blue.

> >There is a concern I have regarding the studies in the news reports
> >and the dosing you describe. The Oakland Hospital research on cultured
> >cells translates in micro-grams of MB per day, however, the University
> >of Aberdeen research with Alzheimer's patients involved doses of milli-
> >grams per day. 60 milli-grams was the apparent optimal dosing revealed
> >from the phase II study. My concern is that these news stories are
> >using the letter "m" as in "mg" to represent micro-grams whereas if
> >taken literally, one would interpret the doses as in milligrams, i.e.
> >1000 times greater dose. Does anyone know what the doses in the
> >University of Aberdeen and TauRx really are? This is critical for
> >those amongst us that would take a risk and test MB on their own.
> >Unless MB is made a controlled substance, there is likely to be
> >widespread experimenting with the chemical.

> This post has some good information on rember.http://mfoundation.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4111#post4111

> A discussion of rember (MB) for alzheimer's can be found at --http://alzheimers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/762104261/m/3371094513

Your concern is a great concern.. most of the articles are stating
60mg (60/ thousanths of a gram) three times daily and the 100 mg was
ineffective.. Correctly it should be micrograms or 60/millionth of a
gram! So anyone who is ingesting 60mg is getting an ineffective 1000
time overdose. from what I gather, a popular "ich" fish methylene blue
is 2.303% w/v so that is 2.303 grams in 100cc of distilled purified
water. Take a ml or 1/100th = 23 mg / ml (1ml = 1 dropperful) .. Take
2 ml or 2 dropperfuls = 46mg , place it in 30ml water and you get a
dilution of 1.53 mg /ml. There 20 drops to a ml in a medicine
dropper, so 1.53 mg divided by 20 = .075 mg which is 75 microgram- we
only want 60mcg, so let's go back to the 2 dropperfuls X 60mcg/75mcg =
1.6 dropperful in 30 ml medicinal dropper bottle and qs to 30ml which
now gives the 60mcg per DROP! three times daily. So if no one reads
this blog there are going to be a lot of people taking and ineffective
overdose. I guess that is why they make pharmacists.

Tom Clayton - Reg. Pharmacist, UCSF School of Pharmacy '60.

Edited by maxwatt, 17 May 2009 - 10:23 AM.

[rwac]

Cool. Just took 60mcg, and that seems to work much better than the ~1mg I was taking.

[Lufega]

I'm also getting a better effect from 60 mcg 3 times a day than 1 mg once daily. This stuff is pretty cool.

[zawy]

Where was the reference or reasoning that only 60 mcg/day would do anything? The only references I saw in this thread were required 4 mg/day, 60 times more.

[Lufega]

Some people speculate a mistake in the units where mg was mistaken for mcg. Based on the small amount I've been using and the effect I get from this small dose, 60 mg would seem like too high a dose. I can only wonder how it would make me feel. 1 mg made me vert drowsy at first followed by an increase in libido after a couple of hours. This is all very subjective but the drowsiness was also experience by geddastorm.

[zawy]

Some people speculate a mistake in the units where mg was mistaken for mcg. Based on the small amount I've been using and the effect I get from this small dose, 60 mg would seem like too high a dose. I can only wonder how it would make me feel. 1 mg made me vert drowsy at first followed by an increase in libido after a couple of hours. This is all very subjective but the drowsiness was also experience by geddastorm.

He said he was taking 1 mg once a day which is 5.5 times more than your 60 ug three times a day. He also said he didn't see how 160 ug could do much and that is almost equal to the total of your three doses. I would be very careful and check how you're calculating your dose.

Edited by zawy, 20 May 2009 - 04:10 PM.

[Lufega]

Zawy,

This is how I did it:

A 2.303% solution is 2.303 grams MB per 100 ml solution or 23 mg/ml. There are 20 drops to a ml so each drop will have 1.15 mg MB. Now, I take 32 drops of this (which equals 36.8 mg MB) and add it to 30 ml water. This will equal 1.23 mg/ml. This divided by 20 = 0.0613 mg per drop, or 60 micrograms.

[zawy]

Your dilution method is good. I checked your product and it's definitely 2.3%. I trust the 30 ml was measured right. If the inconsistencies in this thread could be resolved with one change in the comments, it would be that your 30 ml was 3 ml. But I'm pretty sure you know what a ml is. I'm twisting the data in this thread around in my head and something's not adding up. I'll post when i get to try it.

[nameless]

This looks like a good source:
http://www.methylene...CFRK7ZwodIF-82A

No idea how to actually obtain it, but it looks safer than other forms.

Edit: And glancing back at the start of the thread, I see it's been mentioned already. I wonder if a compounding pharmacy could order it? Although you'd also need a prescription for it too.

Edited by nameless, 02 November 2009 - 06:43 PM.

[tunt01]

out of curiosity where did you get the pharmaceutical grade MB? i called a couple manufacturers/distributors and both refused to sell to me.

[AgeVivo]

out of curiosity where did you get the pharmaceutical grade MB?

One in Belgium and one in France. MB has been used as a psychotropic drug and against sore throats for a long time, at least in Europe. Many grandparents know it, many young people don't know it: indeed it is not proposed anymore by pharmacies because it does not bring enough money compared to other medicines (while it works fine; this situation is similar to sodium bicarbonate against fungus; people who always criticize the system can critize here). I think that in France it is not sold anymore, in Belgium it is; i haven't check elsewhere.

[medievil]

out of curiosity where did you get the pharmaceutical grade MB?

One in Belgium and one in France. MB has been used as a psychotropic drug and against sore throats for a long time, at least in Europe. Many grandparents know it, many young people don't know it: indeed it is not proposed anymore by pharmacies because it does not bring enough money compared to other medicines (while it works fine; this situation is similar to sodium bicarbonate against fungus; people who always criticize the system can critize here). I think that in France it is not sold anymore, in Belgium it is; i haven't check elsewhere.

I also live in Belguim, where can i find it?

[NeverSayDie]

Methylene blue?

So people are going to start ingesting an industrial chemical used for aquariums?? I've seen some people link to pet-store products on amazon and some seriously dubious MB jugs on ebay.

I think the quest for life extension gets a little desperate when one considers drinking a pet store chemical, especially one cooked up from some guy in his garage that he then sells on ebay.

I think I'll pass on ingesting the synthetic bright blue fish fungicide.

[abelard lindsay]

Methylene blue?

So people are going to start ingesting an industrial chemical used for aquariums?? I've seen some people link to pet-store products on amazon and some seriously dubious MB jugs on ebay.

I think the quest for life extension gets a little desperate when one considers drinking a pet store chemical, especially one cooked up from some guy in his garage that he then sells on ebay.

I think I'll pass on ingesting the synthetic bright blue fish fungicide.

Yeah Rember will probably come out and sell you 2 cents worth of Methylene blue for $20/pill and then you'll have to beg your doctor for it, and since you're not so screwed up with alzheimers that you can't remember your own name, he'll think you're some kind of drug-addicted kook for asking for an off-label unapproved "life extension" use of a drug that's been safely used at many orders of magnitude greater concentration for over 100 years.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 20 November 2009 - 06:50 AM.

[maxwatt]

Methylene blue?

So people are going to start ingesting an industrial chemical used for aquariums?? I've seen some people link to pet-store products on amazon and some seriously dubious MB jugs on ebay.

I think the quest for life extension gets a little desperate when one considers drinking a pet store chemical, especially one cooked up from some guy in his garage that he then sells on ebay.

I think I'll pass on ingesting the synthetic bright blue fish fungicide.

Yeah Rember will probably come out and sell you 2 cents worth of Methylene blue for $20/pill and then you'll have to beg your doctor for it, and since you're not so screwed up with alzheimers that you can't remember your own name, he'll think you're some kind of drug-addicted kook for asking for an off-label unapproved "life extension" use of a drug that's been safely used at many orders of magnitude greater concentration for over 100 years.

Hahahahah.

The fish store MB is sourced from the same suppliers as lab grade. The difference from that to pharmaceutical grade is a mater of certification and procedures. There are standards for veterinary supplies that guard against contamination and ensure purity, and the standards are not that different than those for human OTC medicine. As the use of MB seems to call for diluting to about 60 microgram doses, any contaminants will be similarly diluted, and the material is sterilized before being packet and sealed in sterile bottles. It looks to me that fear of using a fish-store source for the supplement are misplaced.

[curious_sle]

one other thing... there is a german pharmaceutical company selling 240mg Methylenum caeruleum in a 100ml drop dispenser. Available without precription to treat cystitis. So this would be cool thus far. I have however no idea if it really is the same. In the chemical ecyclopedia it is listed as an alternative name for methylene blue but i am uncertain.

For your interest the least expensive place to get it online is listed at http://www.apomio.de...pharm-gmbh.html now 240mg seems like it would last a long while at a dose of 0.1mg per day :-) and it would be pharmaceutical grade product if someone cares enough. I am just not shure if i should get it. I had my last dose of antidepresiva last night so i could start on it fairly soon (washout period etc).

Any advise?

[OneScrewLoose]

According to this: http://www.chemicalb...B2748858_EN.htm

There is about 1.8g of MB per drop. So your usual 2% solution will have 36mg per ml, much higher than you guys are calculating. This is way your low "mcg" doses are so notable, because they are probably much higher. An eyedrop has 50-100mcl per drop, so that yields 1.8-3.6mg per drop.

[8bitmore]

According to this: http://www.chemicalb...B2748858_EN.htm

There is about 1.8g of MB per drop. So your usual 2% solution will have 36mg per ml, much higher than you guys are calculating. This is way your low "mcg" doses are so notable, because they are probably much higher. An eyedrop has 50-100mcl per drop, so that yields 1.8-3.6mg per drop.

When I re-did the calculations before I did my trial of MB my notes looked like this:

20 drops to 1ml (as according to water-alike viscosity of liquid; approximated)

2303mg to 100ml 2.3% MB

2303 / 100 = 23,03mg per ml

23,03 / 20 (drops) = 1.15mg per drop

1150mcg per drop

71mcg via 1 drop MB added with 15 drop water


So according to my math I was only taking 71mcg daily.. My figures are a bit lower than yours but in the same ballpark as far as I can tell.

[OneScrewLoose]

Sorry, made a mistake. It would be 1.8g of MB per ml of pure MB. So at 1% it's 18mg per ml. At 2.3% that's 41.4mg per ml, or 2 to 4.1mg per drop.

[zorba990]

Bump.

Is anyone still using this? Still a clean source? http://www.coleparme...asp?sku=8835133
Preferred compared to the liquid Deprenyl citrate?

Edited by zorba990, 01 September 2010 - 05:25 PM.

[maxwatt]

Bump.

Is anyone still using this? Still a clean source? http://www.coleparme...asp?sku=8835133
Preferred compared to the liquid Deprenyl citrate?

Did you look at the Material Safety Data Sheet? I would still prefer it to Deprenyl, but I don't think MB is supposed to have the same effect, or work by the same mechanism.

Appearance: dark green solid.
Warning! Causes respiratory tract irritation. Causes eye and skin irritation. May be harmful if swallowed. Reproductively active.
Target Organs: Blood, eyes.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: May cause chemical conjunctivitis. Causes eye irritation and possible injury.
Skin: Causes skin irritation. Absorption into the body may cause cyanosis (bluish discoloration of skin due to deficient oxygenation of the blood).
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May cause hemolytic anemia. May be harmful if swallowed.
Inhalation: Causes respiratory tract irritation. May cause methemoglobinemia, cyanosis (bluish discoloration of skin due to deficient oxygenation of the blood), convulsions, tachycardia, dyspnea (labored breathing), and death. Can produce delayed pulmonary edema.
Chronic: Effects may be delayed. Laboratory experiments have resulted in mutagenic effects. Repeated contact may cause corneal damage. May cause adverse reproductive effects.

[Sillewater]

Zawy,

This is how I did it:

A 2.303% solution is 2.303 grams MB per 100 ml solution or 23 mg/ml. There are 20 drops to a ml so each drop will have 1.15 mg MB. Now, I take 32 drops of this (which equals 36.8 mg MB) and add it to 30 ml water. This will equal 1.23 mg/ml. This divided by 20 = 0.0613 mg per drop, or 60 micrograms.

Just want to make a slight correction. You don't add it to 30ml you fill it up to 30ml. Don't know if this has been addressed in the latter posts. If so, sorry.

[Steve_86]

I just bought http://www.amazon.co...04493600&sr=8-9

Can anyone help by suggesting how I can dilute it to therapeutic doses?

Edited by Steve_86, 04 May 2011 - 07:34 AM.

[maxwatt]

I just bought http://www.amazon.co...04493600&sr=8-9

Can anyone help by suggesting how I can dilute it to therapeutic doses?

If you follow the procedure above but instead of 30 ml, you use 30/2.3 =13 ml, you dilute to 13 ml, you will have a solution that gives 60 mcg per ml.

[Steve_86]

Zawy,

This is how I did it:

A 2.303% solution is 2.303 grams MB per 100 ml solution or 23 mg/ml. There are 20 drops to a ml so each drop will have 1.15 mg MB. Now, I take 32 drops of this (which equals 36.8 mg MB) and add it to 30 ml water. This will equal 1.23 mg/ml. This divided by 20 = 0.0613 mg per drop, or 60 micrograms.

Just want to make a slight correction. You don't add it to 30ml you fill it up to 30ml. Don't know if this has been addressed in the latter posts. If so, sorry.

Sorry, I am a little confused :P

I have a 15ml bottle of 1% MB. Therefore I have 0.15ml of MB in the bottle. How many mg per ml is this?

[aLurker]

I'm confused about the dosage here. The articles/papers I've read refer to 60 mg as the optimal dose of Rember based on Phase II but you guys are taking 60 mcg instead? That's a difference of a factor of 1000. Are you all taking it to protect mitochondria rather than to prevent progression of Alzheimer's?

Furthermore are there any studies related to preventing cognitive decline in healthy people or taking it for nootropic effects?

I read the lengthy post below and followed all the links but that didn't really give my any insights as to why people keep insisting on 60 mcg rather than 60 mg. Could someone please explain this to me?

Today, I tried one drop MB in a glass of water. I am using the Kordon methylene blue product which did not come equipped with a dropper function so I had to improvise. It's been 1 hour since my first dose and I feel very drowsy. 1 drop is much higher than the 0.125 mg needed so I will adjust the dose for tomorrows dose and so on.

How should I dilute this to obtain the right amount from 2% solution???

I thought 1mg was the proper dose. where did you get the 0.125mg from ?

If you search the references in this THREAD you will find a reference to a discussion in usenet forum sci.lifextension HERE --- a pharmacist gave step by step instructions on diluting the 2.0303% Kordon's fish medicine down to the proper amount, in one drop from a medicine dropper. FWIW, this is still quite blue, but does not turn your pee blue.

> >There is a concern I have regarding the studies in the news reports
> >and the dosing you describe. The Oakland Hospital research on cultured
> >cells translates in micro-grams of MB per day, however, the University
> >of Aberdeen research with Alzheimer's patients involved doses of milli-
> >grams per day. 60 milli-grams was the apparent optimal dosing revealed
> >from the phase II study. My concern is that these news stories are
> >using the letter "m" as in "mg" to represent micro-grams whereas if
> >taken literally, one would interpret the doses as in milligrams, i.e.
> >1000 times greater dose. Does anyone know what the doses in the
> >University of Aberdeen and TauRx really are? This is critical for
> >those amongst us that would take a risk and test MB on their own.
> >Unless MB is made a controlled substance, there is likely to be
> >widespread experimenting with the chemical.

> This post has some good information on rember.http://mfoundation.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4111#post4111

> A discussion of rember (MB) for alzheimer's can be found at --http://alzheimers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/762104261/m/3371094513

Your concern is a great concern.. most of the articles are stating
60mg (60/ thousanths of a gram) three times daily and the 100 mg was
ineffective.. Correctly it should be micrograms or 60/millionth of a
gram! So anyone who is ingesting 60mg is getting an ineffective 1000
time overdose. from what I gather, a popular "ich" fish methylene blue
is 2.303% w/v so that is 2.303 grams in 100cc of distilled purified
water. Take a ml or 1/100th = 23 mg / ml (1ml = 1 dropperful) .. Take
2 ml or 2 dropperfuls = 46mg , place it in 30ml water and you get a
dilution of 1.53 mg /ml. There 20 drops to a ml in a medicine
dropper, so 1.53 mg divided by 20 = .075 mg which is 75 microgram- we
only want 60mcg, so let's go back to the 2 dropperfuls X 60mcg/75mcg =
1.6 dropperful in 30 ml medicinal dropper bottle and qs to 30ml which
now gives the 60mcg per DROP! three times daily. So if no one reads
this blog there are going to be a lot of people taking and ineffective
overdose. I guess that is why they make pharmacists.

Tom Clayton - Reg. Pharmacist, UCSF School of Pharmacy '60.

[rwac]

I'm confused about the dosage here. The articles/papers I've read refer to 60 mg as the optimal dose of Rember based on Phase II but you guys are taking 60 mcg instead? That's a difference of a factor of 1000. Are you all taking it to protect mitochondria rather than to prevent progression of Alzheimer's?

Furthermore are there any studies related to preventing cognitive decline in healthy people or taking it for nootropic effects?

I read the lengthy post below and followed all the links but that didn't really give my any insights as to why people keep insisting on 60 mcg rather than 60 mg. Could someone please explain this to me?

The 60mcg, was found experimentally, but it works. It's by no means universal though. I actually found starting with 1mcg useful.

I interpret this as saving the neurons with the fewest mitochondria, since the optimal concentration of MB depends on the concentration of cytochrome C. So my personal strategy is starting low and working up. Yes, the mechanism for the nootropic effect is likely to be mitochondrial protection.

There are no human studies but there is a study where MB increases cognitive function and grip strength in old mice.

Edited by rwac, 08 May 2011 - 06:45 PM.

[DeadMeat]

I'm confused about the dosage here. The articles/papers I've read refer to 60 mg as the optimal dose of Rember based on Phase II but you guys are taking 60 mcg instead? That's a difference of a factor of 1000. Are you all taking it to protect mitochondria rather than to prevent progression of Alzheimer's?

Furthermore are there any studies related to preventing cognitive decline in healthy people or taking it for nootropic effects?

I read the lengthy post below and followed all the links but that didn't really give my any insights as to why people keep insisting on 60 mcg rather than 60 mg. Could someone please explain this to me?

Not for alzheimer, but there is a patent where they used this type of dosages. In Atamna and Ames patent (Example 5) they fed 25 µg methylene blue trice a day to aged humans.
http://www.freepaten...06/0188866.html

Long-Term Administration of diaminophenothiazines Improve Skin Elasticity and Activity Levels in Patients over 50.

A double blind, randomized, vehicle controlled study is conducted in 160 subjects ranging in ages from 50 to 65. Treatment groups are prescribed 25 µg diaminophenothiazine (azure A, azure B, azure C, thionine, toluidine blue, methylene blue, new methylene blue, or 1-9-dimethyl methylene blue) tablets taken orally with meals 3 times daily. Clinical monitoring, subjective self assessment, objective measurement methods of skin elasticity, epidermal hydration and skin surface lipids are used to determine effects of each treatment at four visits during 24 weeks. Clinical monitoring includes wrinkle counts, measurement of wrinkle depth around the right eye, and nasolabial fold depth. Results demonstrate consistent efficacy of diaminophenothiazine treatment over placebo in counteracting different signs of aging in the skin and improving overall energy levels.

And this is also sort of similar to having drinking water of 100 nM methylene blue(as in Example 4 in the patent with rats, although I'm not sure what else they did there). For an average human water consumption of 2 liter per day(2*0.1*319.85 = 63.70 µg).

I'm currently taking about 60 µg MB in a half liter water bottle that I drink spread out over the day. And my pet rats still get drinking water of 100 nM. But now together with about 0.1 mg/l melatonin in their night water.

[Sillewater]

Long-Term Administration of diaminophenothiazines Improve Skin Elasticity and Activity Levels in Patients over 50.

A double blind, randomized, vehicle controlled study is conducted in 160 subjects ranging in ages from 50 to 65. Treatment groups are prescribed 25 µg diaminophenothiazine (azure A, azure B, azure C, thionine, toluidine blue, methylene blue, new methylene blue, or 1-9-dimethyl methylene blue) tablets taken orally with meals 3 times daily. Clinical monitoring, subjective self assessment, objective measurement methods of skin elasticity, epidermal hydration and skin surface lipids are used to determine effects of each treatment at four visits during 24 weeks. Clinical monitoring includes wrinkle counts, measurement of wrinkle depth around the right eye, and nasolabial fold depth. Results demonstrate consistent efficacy of diaminophenothiazine treatment over placebo in counteracting different signs of aging in the skin and improving overall energy levels.

Do you have the actual paper? Is it a paper?

[DeadMeat]

Do you have the actual paper? Is it a paper?

No, it's just a patent. Ames et al. do mention unpublished in vivo data here, but I assume they are referring to example 4 with rats or something else.
http://www.fasebj.or...t/22/3/703.long

It is shown here that MB increases complex IV in vitro. We have replicated these findings in vivo (unpublished data).