382 replies to this topic

[thedevinroy]

 

 

I know it's redundant, so I'm sorry to ask, but how are people measuring proper dosages? 1 drop seems a bit crude; I purchased kordon's solution btw. Thanks

Get a graduated dropper, pipette, or syringe. You can also do the measurement in ml.

 

Ok, so what is the best way to measure it out?

 

Update: 

Incorrect. According to Kordon's instructions, a teaspoon in 10 gallons would yield 3 ppm of MB. This means that 2.303% is not a % mass and is actually a molar %. Those dosing with MB according to these instructions will be dosing almost 18x higher than they realize, potentially posing a problem in serotonin toxicity and cardiovascular side effects. Actual concentration is 409mg of MB per 1 mL.

 

2.303% is the percent of mass for a standard solution for fish tanks (Kordon, for example). Pharm grades could be 1% or 2%. 1mL is approx equal to 1 gram. Therefore, 1mL contains 23.03mg of Mehtylene Blue. All you really have to do is divide it once or twice to get 60mcg. For example, you could divide it by 20, as in add 1mL to 19mL of water, giving you 1.15mg per mL, then take 1mL from that solution and divide by 19, adding it to 18mL of water, giving you about 60.6mcg per mL. Then all you have to do is drop 1mL of the final solution into some water and then you have a serving of 60mcg.

That's one way of doing it, and a pretty precise way of doing it.


You could also just do what I did and dilute 5mL of 2.303% in 90mL and take a drop as a serving (read a few pages back for math). I do it this way because it is less work, and methylene blue is quite nontoxic at anything under 200mg, so messing up even 100% around 60mcg isn't going to matter to your health.
 

Incorrect. According to Kordon's instructions, a teaspoon in 10 gallons would yield 3 ppm of MB. This means that 2.303% is not a % mass and is actually a molar %. Those dosing with MB according to these instructions will be dosing almost 18x higher than they realize, potentially posing a problem in serotonin toxicity and cardiovascular side effects. Actual concentration is 409mg of MB per 1 mL.

Edited by YOLF, 12 July 2016 - 09:28 AM.

[Justchill]

Hi where can you buy this stuff? I found this on ebay:

http://cgi.benl.ebay...=item35ac0dc9e6

And also other fish-medication ??

[jven014]

Where do you guys even buy methylene blue? do you guys go to petsmart or something and go to the fish tank cleaning section? And is this stuff even safe to take?

[MrHappy]

Where do you guys even buy methylene blue? do you guys go to petsmart or something and go to the fish tank cleaning section? And is this stuff even safe to take?

Depends where you live, but there are a lot of products available on ebay for curing fish diseases. Just search for 'methylene blue'. Much easier than the blank stares you get from pharmacists, even if you ask for methylthionium chloride.

There are also 2 medical grade options available - 'Rember' from 'TauRX' and 'ProveBlue' from ProvePharm... cost and availability are a different story.

The products I found had a concentration of 12mg /mL .. which means diluting 10:1 will give me a 1.2mg dose, or 200:1 to get to 60ug.

Safety - the toxicity in high doses is well known and the US army was using doses of 200mg for treating malaria. The uptake from oral ingestion appears to vary between 50-75%, so your mileage will vary. Read other posts on this thread about interactions with seratonin and dosage levels.

Would appear to be the next 'big thing' in stopping/reversing alzheimers, parkinson's disease and age related neurodegeneration. Inhibits nitric oxide, untangles tau proteins, repair neurons and mitochondira. In larger doses, kills off viruses and bacteria. Just wow.

[unregistered_user]

Great thread. I just read the entire thing from start to finish in the last 90 minutes. Thanks to Aaron and Devin for all the useful info.

@Devin: I see 1 drop at the 2.303% concentration is equal to 1.15mg. Have you ever just dropped a single drop into your mouth or do you always mix with water?

Also, when we mix the MB into water to dilute it, is it ok to store this mixture in the refrigerator? Is there a proper method for storing it and if stored incorrectly, will it alter it in any way?

Thanks,
SRI

[maxwatt]

Great thread. I just read the entire thing from start to finish in the last 90 minutes. Thanks to Aaron and Devin for all the useful info.

@Devin: I see 1 drop at the 2.303% concentration is equal to 1.15mg. Have you ever just dropped a single drop into your mouth or do you always mix with water?

Also, when we mix the MB into water to dilute it, is it ok to store this mixture in the refrigerator? Is there a proper method for storing it and if stored incorrectly, will it alter it in any way?

Thanks,
SRI

Drops from a dropper can vary by over 20% in volume even from the same dropper under the same conditions. Drop size depends on viscosity of the liquid and the size of the orifice opening of the dropper. A measuring pipette is needed for precise measurements. As the 60 mcg dose is approximately 50% of the point where the effects Ames found no longer are obtained, we have some latitude in the final measurement.
But I would be careful about using a dropper for measuring intermediate steps in dilution.

[unregistered_user]

Great thread. I just read the entire thing from start to finish in the last 90 minutes. Thanks to Aaron and Devin for all the useful info.

@Devin: I see 1 drop at the 2.303% concentration is equal to 1.15mg. Have you ever just dropped a single drop into your mouth or do you always mix with water?

Also, when we mix the MB into water to dilute it, is it ok to store this mixture in the refrigerator? Is there a proper method for storing it and if stored incorrectly, will it alter it in any way?

Thanks,
SRI

Drops from a dropper can vary by over 20% in volume even from the same dropper under the same conditions. Drop size depends on viscosity of the liquid and the size of the orifice opening of the dropper. A measuring pipette is needed for precise measurements. As the 60 mcg dose is approximately 50% of the point where the effects Ames found no longer are obtained, we have some latitude in the final measurement.
But I would be careful about using a dropper for measuring intermediate steps in dilution.

Thanks for the tip. Any suggestions on where I can pick one up locally? Should I get a cheapo plastic one or something better?

[niner]

Drops from a dropper can vary by over 20% in volume even from the same dropper under the same conditions. Drop size depends on viscosity of the liquid and the size of the orifice opening of the dropper. A measuring pipette is needed for precise measurements. As the 60 mcg dose is approximately 50% of the point where the effects Ames found no longer are obtained, we have some latitude in the final measurement.
But I would be careful about using a dropper for measuring intermediate steps in dilution.

Thanks for the tip. Any suggestions on where I can pick one up locally? Should I get a cheapo plastic one or something better?

One way to deal with the problem of measuring with drops is to arrange your dilutions so that you start with a larger quantity of the concentrated MB solution, like one ml. You can get calibrated droppers that can dispense one ml reasonably accurately. Then dilute it with enough water so that your dose is one ml, or whatever volume you feel like you can measure accurately. You'll have a larger volume of your stock solution around, but you won't need to mess with drops.

[unregistered_user]

I think I'm going to go with Devin's method of dosing which is:

1.) Drop 1ml of Methylene Blue 2.303% into 19ml water. This gives 1.15mg per ml.

2.) Drop 1ml of the above mix into 18ml water.

Now I have 2 mixes. The first is 1.15mg per ml and the second is 60.6mcg per ml.

I'm not really sure if what I'm using can technically be called a dropper but rather a 1ml syringe. I can expect a fairly accurate measurement using this method I would think, right?

[maxwatt]

Sounds good to me.

[Raptor87]

How come stuff that isn't regulated is always kinda cheap? I remember how cheap GHB was and now the price is just ridiculous. And if there is a drug that is favourable to people but cant be patented then very few companies will manufacture it. Makes you laugh in a sad way really.

Edited by Brainfogged, 12 August 2011 - 01:03 AM.

[niner]

How come stuff that isn't regulated is always kinda cheap? I remember how cheap GHB was and now the price is just ridiculous. And if there is a drug that is favourable to people but cant be patented then very few companies will manufacture it.

The price is based on supply and demand. The supply cost is going to be a lot less if you don't have a bunch of pesky regulations saying that it has to actually be what you say it is, and not contain a lot of mercury, lead, or radium. It's very expensive to bring a drug to market, unless you can let the clueless users be your guinea pigs; if they survive, everything is cool. If you want controlled human trials before the drug is put on sale, then that's expensive. The patent is what lets the developer recoup their investment and make a profit. To see what happens when drugs go off patent, look here.

[unregistered_user]

I have an image that was made that explains diluting 2.303% MB and it appears to be inconsistent with the advice given in this thread. As I mentioned above, I am using the method outlined by Devin which is

1. Take 1ml MB and mix with 19ml water effectively diluting to 1.15mg per ml

2. Take 1ml of that mixture and combine with 18ml water effectively diluting to 60mcg per ml

Have a look at the image I attached to this post which says that taking only 1.3ml of the same concentrated MB and mixing with 498.7ml (!) produces a solution that contains 60mcg per every ml.



Am I really semi-retarded or are these totally different methods which produce entirely different volumes yet claim to yield the same concentration?

Someone help... and please in layman terms because I'm the furthest thing from an intellectual. Thanks.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 12 August 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[rwac]

Am I really semi-retarded or are these totally different methods which produce entirely different volumes yet claim to yield the same concentration?

Someone help... and please in layman terms because I'm the furthest thing from an intellectual. Thanks.

Well, your method produces 60mcg/mL, while the method previously mentioned one generates 60mcg/drop.
Make sense?

[unregistered_user]

Am I really semi-retarded or are these totally different methods which produce entirely different volumes yet claim to yield the same concentration?

Someone help... and please in layman terms because I'm the furthest thing from an intellectual. Thanks.

Well, your method produces 60mcg/mL, while the method previously mentioned one generates 60mcg/drop.
Make sense?

Yes, so I am semi-retarded. Good to know I haven't selected a misnomer for my alias. Thanks for setting that straight.

[unregistered_user]

Whoa. Wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

So the "devin" method of dividing twice produces 60mcg per ml, right? I mean... that's what I thought? And this image:



Gives 60mcg PER DROP... you're saying? Because the last sentence says: "Basically, you'd take 1ml of that solution every time you wanted your 60mcg of MB".

When you say "my method", which one are you referring to? The one I typed out first or the linked image?

Damn it, this MB needs to hurry up and kick in!

[rwac]

The "devin method" produces ~60mcg/drop.

[unregistered_user]

The "devin method" produces ~60mcg/drop.

Oh wow. Ok, so I guess my first couple of doses were more on the order of 300-360mcg and not 60. Derp!

[spider]

Whoa. Wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

So the "devin" method of dividing twice produces 60mcg per ml, right? I mean... that's what I thought? And this image:



Gives 60mcg PER DROP... you're saying? Because the last sentence says: "Basically, you'd take 1ml of that solution every time you wanted your 60mcg of MB".

When you say "my method", which one are you referring to? The one I typed out first or the linked image?

Damn it, this MB needs to hurry up and kick in!

Hey SRI,

It looks like both methods assume that MB has a density of 1 kg/L or 1 g/ml. Taking this figure into your calculation, you will end up with a approxemately 60 mcg/ml solution in both methods. But this is incorrect, both solutions you end of with are actually 105 mcg/ml solutions.

The density of pure MB is:
1.757 g/cm3 (22 C)

This means that pure MB has a mass of 1.757 mg per 1ml volume.

1 ml 2.303% MB solution contains 0.02303 ml of pure MB.

0.02303 ml * 1.757 g/ml = 0.04046371 g = 40.46371 mg

So, 1 ml out of your bought 2.303% MB solutions contains 40.46371 mg of pure MB.

Now, by using the second method:

500ml * 60 mcg/ml = V * 1757 mcg/ml

V = 17.075 ml

This means that if want to end up with a half a litre solutions that contains 60 mcg/ml of pure MB, then you have to take 17.075 ml of your bought MB-2.303%-solution and simple add water until you have reached 0.5 litre in total.

[unregistered_user]

Excellent reply. Thank you for your help!

[thedevinroy]

Hey SRI,

It looks like both methods assume that MB has a density of 1 kg/L or 1 g/ml. Taking this figure into your calculation, you will end up with a approxemately 60 mcg/ml solution in both methods. But this is incorrect, both solutions you end of with are actually 105 mcg/ml solutions.

The density of pure MB is:
1.757 g/cm3 (22 C)

This means that pure MB has a mass of 1.757 mg per 1ml volume.

1 ml 2.303% MB solution contains 0.02303 ml of pure MB.

0.02303 ml * 1.757 g/ml = 0.04046371 g = 40.46371 mg

So, 1 ml out of your bought 2.303% MB solutions contains 40.46371 mg of pure MB.

Now, by using the second method:

500ml * 60 mcg/ml = V * 1757 mcg/ml

V = 17.075 ml

This means that if want to end up with a half a litre solutions that contains 60 mcg/ml of pure MB, then you have to take 17.075 ml of your bought MB-2.303%-solution and simple add water until you have reached 0.5 litre in total.

You are assuming that the "2.303%" is a measurement of volume/volume, which is unusual and usually avoided outside of textbook use because when two liquids are combined, their volumes are not always additive. A "percent" solution is typically mass/mass (Mass fraction), mole/mole (Mole fraction, or amount fraction), or mass/volume (Mass Concentration, not really dimensionless but still used). Thus, your statement, "1 ml 2.303% MB solution contains 0.02303 ml of pure MB" needs sources, otherwise we will have to assume that Kordon uses the typical interpretation of % solutions.

Remember that the density of water is 1 gram per mL (cm^3).

If Kordon uses Mass Fraction, then my original presumption that 1mL of solution is 23.03mg MB is not completely accurate because 1mL of 2.303% solution is slightly heavier than a gram {1mL/[0.97697/(1g/mL)+0.02303/(1.757g/mL)]=1.01002187g} yielding 23.2608037mg of Methylene Blue per 1mL.

If Kordon uses Mole Fraction, which I doubt it, then we are both wrong. Molecular mass of Methylene Blue is 319.85g/mol and water is 18.015g/mol [(319.85 * 0.02303) / (0.97697 * 18.01528) = 0.418521765] which would mean that 41.8% of the mass of each mL would be Methylene Blue. I highly doubt that considering the expense and marketing disadvantage.

However, if Kordon uses Mass Concentration, then 1mL of 2.303% solution does in fact yield 23.03mg of Methylene Blue. This is what I and others have concluded with little discussion. I believe it to be this way not only because the math makes chemistry simple (which is why this method is used: http://wetlab.izzid....rcent_Solution/) and also because it costs less to manufacture a 2.303% Mass Concentration than any other form of percent solution.

Edited by devinthayer, 13 August 2011 - 05:11 AM.

[unregistered_user]

What does 1 drop equal again, approximately?

[X_Danny_X]

what type of measuring instrument that i can buy to help me measure MB? also where i could buy it?

[MrHappy]

what type of measuring instrument that i can buy to help me measure MB? also where i could buy it?

Go to the pharmacist and ask for a device to accurately measure 1mL of liquid. They'll ask you if a syringe is OK. Scratch your head and say 'I guess?'. Saves them asking you all sorts of questions to see if you are an intravenous drug user.

[X_Danny_X]

so the syringe maximum intake is 1mL? the syringe should have 1ml, .9ml, .8ml.............and so on.

[unregistered_user]

Just as a reference for everyone maybe it would be helpful if we posted pictures of our MB as earlier, I started to have a small panic wondering if I somehow accidentally wound up with "new methylene blue" (which is toxic) rather than just the regular MB.

My bottle looks like:



I called Kordon and read them the item number from the bottle (item: 37344) and asked what the concentration was and she said 2.3%. Anyone else taking this kind? This is the correct stuff, yea?

[MrHappy]

Just as a reference for everyone maybe it would be helpful if we posted pictures of our MB as earlier, I started to have a small panic wondering if I somehow accidentally wound up with "new methylene blue" (which is toxic) rather than just the regular MB.

My bottle looks like:



I called Kordon and read them the item number from the bottle (item: 37344) and asked what the concentration was and she said 2.3%. Anyone else taking this kind? This is the correct stuff, yea?

Here's your product: http://kordon.com/ko..._blue/index.htm

It's the right stuff. 2.303%, so 23mg/mL. 20:1 will give you 1.15mg/mL. 10mL in 200mL of water will give you 200 doses @ 1.15mg.

I may try scaling back the dose to around 500ug and see how that goes. 1mL seems to be giving me a sore neck, which may be my lymph nodes trying to get rid of it. The dopey / clumsy issue only lasted about 1/2 hour and may or may not have been related to empty stomach and missed meal. More testing required. Definitely focused and energetic now, though!

[markymark]

check this out:
http://www.provepharm.com/
11 studies in progress are listed as at 10 january 2008 concerning methylene blue.
http://clinicaltrial...ene blue&rank=4
MM

PS
MB is an indispensable antidote for the treatment of a life-threatening Methämoglobinämie (cyanosis, blue craze). Due to the production process ordinary MB could be poluted in small quantities with heavy metals.

Edited by markymark, 15 August 2011 - 02:26 PM.

[MrHappy]

check this out:
http://www.provepharm.com/
11 studies in progress are listed as at 10 january 2008 concerning methylene blue.
http://clinicaltrial...ene blue&rank=4
MM

PS
MB is an indispensable antidote for the treatment of a life-threatening Methämoglobinämie (cyanosis, blue craze). Due to the production process ordinary MB could be poluted in small quantities with heavy metals.

Sure.. although fish / aquatic environments are very sensitive to heavy metals, so it's unlikely to be very impure.

[niner]

check this out:
http://www.provepharm.com/
11 studies in progress are listed as at 10 january 2008 concerning methylene blue.
http://clinicaltrial...ene blue&rank=4
MM

PS
MB is an indispensable antidote for the treatment of a life-threatening Methämoglobinämie (cyanosis, blue craze). Due to the production process ordinary MB could be poluted in small quantities with heavy metals.

Sure.. although fish / aquatic environments are very sensitive to heavy metals, so it's unlikely to be very impure.

We discussed this a year or so back. It appears to me that Provepharm is trying to imply that there's something wrong with conventional MB so that people will paranoically buy their more expensive product. It's not that difficult to purify an organic compound, nor is it hard to test for trace levels of metals. I think that given the small doses we're using (ug to low mg), the danger from metals is not high. That said, I would love to have a product with a believable CoA.