382 replies to this topic

[mag1]

I have just completed an online MOOC in Medicinal Chemistry. The one major lesson that I learned from this course was that

anilines / anilides are bad.  These reactive groups are the number 1 reason why drugs are recalled for effects.  The observation that

methylene blue is an aniline is, thus, worrisome.

 

In the below chemical representation of methylene blue, the anilines (the NH2 groups off the benzene rings) are outlined in red.

 

 Methylene blue.PNG   24.52KB   6 downloads

 

 

[niner]

I have just completed an online MOOC in Medicinal Chemistry. The one major lesson that I learned from this course was that

anilines / anilides are bad.  These reactive groups are the number 1 reason why drugs are recalled for effects.  The observation that

methylene blue is an aniline is, thus, worrisome.

 

While anilines can form toxic metabolites in some situations, it depends on the shape and chemistry of the compound.  There are a number of drugs with anilines, so it's not like all anilines are toxic.  The very long history of human use of MB suggests that there is little danger with this compound. 

 

Since this thread seems to have reawakened, I'll add that I'm of the opinion that MB at low doses does nothing much other than engendering some powerful placebo responses.  Higher doses, like the 75mg dose used with Rember are bioactive, but not particularly well tolerated.  The new version of Rember is reduced MB, known as leucomethylene blue, because it's colorless.  (Methylene white?)  It has a better side effect profile.

[mag1]

Below is leucomethylene blue.

 

 

Attached Files

•  Leucomethylene blue.PNG   53.86KB   3 downloads

[eon]

should we be looking into methylene white then is the question? But then again low dose MB would still be a good experiment. I would think all those pharmaceutical medicines have some sort of toxic chemicals in them at lower dosage, not enough to kill anyone if following directions. Of course none of them ever list what their ingredients are.

 

 

I have just completed an online MOOC in Medicinal Chemistry. The one major lesson that I learned from this course was that

anilines / anilides are bad.  These reactive groups are the number 1 reason why drugs are recalled for effects.  The observation that

methylene blue is an aniline is, thus, worrisome.

 

While anilines can form toxic metabolites in some situations, it depends on the shape and chemistry of the compound.  There are a number of drugs with anilines, so it's not like all anilines are toxic.  The very long history of human use of MB suggests that there is little danger with this compound. 

 

Since this thread seems to have reawakened, I'll add that I'm of the opinion that MB at low doses does nothing much other than engendering some powerful placebo responses.  Higher doses, like the 75mg dose used with Rember are bioactive, but not particularly well tolerated.  The new version of Rember is reduced MB, known as leucomethylene blue, because it's colorless.  (Methylene white?)  It has a better side effect profile.

 

 

[Logic]

All you need to reduce MB is Ascorbic acid (Vit C)  a cheap C/ascorbic acid pill dissolved in your daily MB dose should do it.

When the solution turns clear; its good to go.

 

A C solution is also great for cleaning up MB spills/stains.

 

 

[pleb]

Specifications of Methylene Blue are as follows:
Chemical Formula: C16H18N3CIS
Molecular Weight: 319.85 gm / mole (w/o water) 373.9 with water of crystalization
Chemical Name: 3,7-bis(Dimethylamino)-phenazathionium chloride Tetramethylthionine chloride
CAS Registration: 61-73-4
C.I No.: 52015
Appearance: Dark Green Crystalline Powder
Assay (as is basis): 80 % - 85%
Assay (on dry basis): 98% -101%
Loss on drying: 10% -20%
Solubility: Clear Blue Solution
Ash content: 1% Max
Residual Solvent: Nil
Aluminium: 100 ppm Max
Cadmium: 1ppm Max
Chromium: 10ppm Max
Copper: 50ppm Max
Tin: 10 ppm Max
Iron: 100ppm Max
Manganese: 10ppm Max
Mercury: Nil
Molybdenum: 10ppm Max

http://www.mubychem....CFSyZMgodKXEAwg

Does this mean methylene blue has some aluminum and is that a concern? Wouldn't taking a combo of the listed ingredient in methylene blue work just as well or it's all in the formula?

[pleb]

The amount of aluminium is 100 parts per million maximum. that's a small amount . That's one part in fifty thousand. considering the small amount added to the water quantity mentioned in the thread earlier an amount of water which is in the litres range should not be any problem for the body to handle at all.
Tropical fish are far more sensitive than we are in that regard and the MB sold by aquarium suppliers has not been shown to cause any toxic problems to fish in much larger amounts used in fish tanks.

[eon]

just curious if the supplement EDTA (calcium disodium ethylene diamine tetra-acetic acid) is somewhat derived from methylene blue?

[eon]

wasn't there some nootropic seller selling rember a while back? I can't recall the name of the company.

[angus]

hi,

 

i wanted to test mb at the μg or pg scale, so this is the dilution for μg scale I did, can someone verify if my maths are correct? I'm really not sure.

 

2.303% w/v solution, so 23 mg/ml. as 20 drops to a ml : 1.15mg per drop.

 

So i put one drop into 20ml of water : 57μg to a ml : 2.875 μg per drop. Is that correct?

 

I plan to use one drop or more of the final solution, to get 2.875μg per drop.

[aaCharley]

By examining more than 3,600 postmortem brains, researchers have found that the progression of dysfunctional tau protein drives the cognitive decline and memory loss seen in Alzheimer’s disease.

 

http://www.scienceda...50324084339.htm

 

"Our study shows that the accumulation of amyloid has a strong relationship with a decline in cognition. When you account for the severity of tau pathology, however, the relationship between amyloid and cognition disappears -- which indicates tau is the driver of Alzheimer's," Dr. Murray says.

 

 

[Groundhog Day]

I just got 20G of this stuff in crystal form, I didn't see some of the responses on here before I ordered... What side effects are people talking about with higher doses? 50-75mg.

[Groundhog Day]

If I want to reduce the MB with Vit. C, do I:

 

A) Fill glass with water, add MB drops, add Vit C. and wait 3 hours for it to turn clear?

B) No need to wait

C) Ingest Vit. C a few hours before taking MB solution?

[Turnbuckle]

I just got 20G of this stuff in crystal form, I didn't see some of the responses on here before I ordered... What side effects are people talking about with higher doses? 50-75mg.

 

 

As MB is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, it can result in toxic symptoms if used with certain anti-depressants. From an FDA warning--

 

Based on the available information provided in the AERS cases and literature, FDA has concluded that the concomitant administration of a serotonergic psychiatric medication with methylene blue has the potential for a drug interaction causing serotonin syndrome. It appears this potential drug interaction can also occur following the discontinuation of serotonergic psychiatric medications with long half-lives. As a result, methylene blue should generally not be given to patients taking serotonergic drugs unless the benefit is deemed to outweigh the risk.

 

 

I also think taking MB as a prophylactic or treatment for Alzheimer's is a mistake unless you take it with a supplement capable of reversing tau hyperphosphorylation. See my post #286 on this on this thread. A personal experience I reported on my profile page (item 14), copy-pasted below--

 

A few years ago (after the stories about Rember came out) I tried a dose of MB. I didn't have Alzheimer's but it seemed like a potentially good prophylactic as everyone my age probably has some of this defective tau protein. In fact, I found that I was thinking more clearly with a dose of 100mg, but when it wore off I was suddenly having difficulty following the plot of TV shows. Uh-oh! So I looked for something that would correct the defective (hyperphosphorylated) tau that causes tangles and tried MB again a couple of days later, this time adding 500 mg niacin every few hours. The problem went away and when the MB wore off I was no worse off for the experience. So I realized that seemingly modest doses of MB can be dangerous, that even if you don't have symptoms of AD you might create them by forming tangles that didn't previously exist. On the plus side, it seemed possible that MB+niacin is a cure for AD, if the MB dissolves the hyperphosphorylated tau tangles and allows niacin (or niacin analogue like niacinamide) to get access.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 October 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Groundhog Day]

 

I just got 20G of this stuff in crystal form, I didn't see some of the responses on here before I ordered... What side effects are people talking about with higher doses? 50-75mg.

 

 

As MB is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, it can result in toxic symptoms if used with certain anti-depressants. From an FDA warning--

 

Based on the available information provided in the AERS cases and literature, FDA has concluded that the concomitant administration of a serotonergic psychiatric medication with methylene blue has the potential for a drug interaction causing serotonin syndrome. It appears this potential drug interaction can also occur following the discontinuation of serotonergic psychiatric medications with long half-lives. As a result, methylene blue should generally not be given to patients taking serotonergic drugs unless the benefit is deemed to outweigh the risk.

 

 

I also think taking MB as a prophylactic or treatment for Alzheimer's is a mistake unless you take it with a supplement capable of reversing tau hyperphosphorylation. See my post #286 on this on this thread. A personal experience I reported on my profile page (item 14), copy-pasted below--

 

A few years ago (after the stories about Rember came out) I tried a dose of MB. I didn't have Alzheimer's but it seemed like a potentially good prophylactic as everyone my age probably has some of this defective tau protein. In fact, I found that I was thinking more clearly with a dose of 100mg, but when it wore off I was suddenly having difficulty following the plot of TV shows. Uh-oh! So I looked for something that would correct the defective (hyperphosphorylated) tau that causes tangles and tried MB again a couple of days later, this time adding 500 mg niacin every few hours. The problem went away and when the MB wore off I was no worse off for the experience. So I realized that seemingly modest doses of MB can be dangerous, that even if you don't have symptoms of AD you might create them by forming tangles that didn't previously exist. On the plus side, it seemed possible that MB+niacin is a cure for AD, if the MB dissolves the hyperphosphorylated tau tangles and allows niacin (or niacin analogue like niacinamide) to get access.

 

 

 

Interesting reaction you had. Thanks for your post. Would niacinamide work instead of niacin? I love niacin but it keeps me charged and awake.
 

[Turnbuckle]

 

Interesting reaction you had. Thanks for your post. Would niacinamide work instead of niacin? I love niacin but it keeps me charged and awake.
 

 

 

 

From the paper I linked to in post 286 I expect it would, though I didn't try it.

[thedevinroy]

 

 

 

I know it's redundant, so I'm sorry to ask, but how are people measuring proper dosages? 1 drop seems a bit crude; I purchased kordon's solution btw. Thanks

Get a graduated dropper, pipette, or syringe. You can also do the measurement in ml.

 

Ok, so what is the best way to measure it out?

 

2.303% is the percent of mass for a standard solution for fish tanks (Kordon, for example). Pharm grades could be 1% or 2%. 1mL is approx equal to 1 gram. Therefore, 1mL contains 23.03mg of Mehtylene Blue. All you really have to do is divide it once or twice to get 60mcg. For example, you could divide it by 20, as in add 1mL to 19mL of water, giving you 1.15mg per mL, then take 1mL from that solution and divide by 19, adding it to 18mL of water, giving you about 60.6mcg per mL. Then all you have to do is drop 1mL of the final solution into some water and then you have a serving of 60mcg.

That's one way of doing it, and a pretty precise way of doing it.


You could also just do what I did and dilute 5mL of 2.303% in 90mL and take a drop as a serving (read a few pages back for math). I do it this way because it is less work, and methylene blue is quite nontoxic at anything under 200mg, so messing up even 100% around 60mcg isn't going to matter to your health.

 

 

According to Kordon's instructions, a teaspoon in 10 gallons of water would yield 3 ppm of MB. This means that 2.303% is not a % mass and is actually a molar %.**  Those dosing with MB according to my previous assumptions and instructions above will be dosing almost 18x higher than they realize, potentially posing a problem in serotonin toxicity and cardiovascular side effects.  Actual concentration is 409mg of MB per 1 mL (0.02303*319.85/18.01528*1000).

 

This can be confirmed by manufacturer or even measuring the weight per mL.  If this is a molar % as it seems to be claiming, it should weight approximately ((1-0.02303)*18.01528+0.02303*319.85)/18.01528 = 1.38585320914246 grams per mL.

 

Sorry to all.  Please dose accordingly.

 

**My math for this is 1[teaspoon]/(768[teaspoons/gallon]*10[gallons])*10^6[ppm]*0.02303[mol/mol] = 2.99869791667 ppm**

Edited by devinthayer, 10 July 2016 - 06:52 AM.

[Raymond Green]

After reading this entire thread, twice, I have only one question:

Why not simply put 1 drop (of 2.32035 solution) in to 8 oz. water and drink? 2 drops if it's the 1%.

[Captain Obvious]

I'm unsure about the potential effects of microdosing. I've experimented with methylene blue in the microgram range after reading these forums, and never really felt anything.

Last week after making ten times stronger batch and being distracted in the morning I accidentally drank about 20 mg worth of methylene blue before realizing my mistake. After a short moment of "omg what have i done" I calmed down, did some reading again and realized I could have probably drank the entire one liter bottle without any toxicity or side-effects. And the only effect I got was that my tongue and pee turned blue.

 

Can someone please explain why people are taking microgram doses when many clinical studies seem to use much higher doses? Is the microgram dosage really supposed to be useful in the long term?

Edited by Captain Obvious, 17 August 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[nooguyz]

I see a lot of people talking about and taking various doses, and a lot of people focusing on avoiding MAOI due to serotonin toxicity.

 

If my MAO is way overactive, what would be the safe dose to take to get a safe amount of MAOI regarding serotonin that would actually help me with ADHD? And what exactly does a 60mcg dose do, any noticeable effects?

[Lady4T]

I'm thinking of giving MB a try, but I'd like to start low.

I have the common 2.3% fish medicine preparation, and I want to make one liter of finished solution. So I figured that I would take one milliliter of the 2.3% preparation and put it into a one liter (1000mL) of water, and that would give me 23 micrograms (23mcg) per each one milliliter of the finished solution.

 

Could someone please check my math?

(Or should that be 999mL of water?)

 

Thanks in advance. 

Edited by Lady4T, 11 March 2018 - 01:33 AM.

[Harkijn]

@ Captain Obvious and Lad4t:

 

Before you do anything rash in terms of dosage or using pet shop MB first listen to this podcast, linked by Prophets in the Alzheimer protocol thread:

https://smartdrugsma...methylene-blue/

[Lady4T]

Thanks for the podcast link  

I'll check it out.