492 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

I won't be commenting any further on my dosing regime.

It is up to each person to find it out. They already know the safe dosing range - up to 200mg per day. I was courageous enough to test at least that dose on my weak, sick 135-pound body.

If you want to have any chance of chasing away Death which is the most powerful force in the Universe then you will have to get a hell of a lot more courage than that. This isn't school. People are trained not to think and to be feeble Sheeple. I am not a herd-dog or a sheeple.

You have to be willing to die to win against Death. There is no compromise and there will be no going back. And like the cowardly group-suicides, so too do the weak-willed humans crowd together even in their 'risky' ventures because they don't have the courage to really stand alone. Stand Alone Complex.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread - it's become a waste of my time.

Man, are you feeling ok? You sound suicidal, or at least self destructive. Knowingly ingesting large amounts of a dangerous substance is not courageous. It's an indulgence in high-risk behavior at best. Especially if you really have a sick, 135lb body.

You don't seem to be making very much sense. Sounds like you imagine yourself as some sort of god or above humanity? Maybe it's an effect of this forum.

Anyway, good luck man. Hope everything works out for you.

Holy cow! It occurs to me that this would be a good human example of the extinction of fear / helplessness!
http://www.psm.edu/r...co Gonzalez.pdf

Extinction of fear of death in human model? Could be considered a dangerous side effect outside of a therapeutic/supervised environment. Very interesting study though. 4mg/kg intravenous injection for a 300mg rat comes to a 135lb human equivalent intravenous dose of 64.7mg. So if 200+mg/day oral administration got MB to the same blood levels then the dose would be consistent with the study's.

Interesting. I just realized that this stuff is stupidly inexpensive. Will probably have to give it a go.

[unregistered_user]

I got my Methylene Blue today and started with a 60mcg dose. I think I noticed the onset but was overcome with sleepiness which I think was more related to digesting a heavy pizza dinner rather than it was the MB. After a short nap (10-15 minutes) I dosed another 60mcg and went outside. I noticed colors seemed more saturated. I went to the movies and didn't notice anything too pronounced. After the movie, which lasted 2 hours, I came home at 11PM and dosed another 60mcg before bed. Given that many user anecdotes indicate an increase in energy and mental alertness, I thought it would be interesting to dose during a time when I generally feel exhausted and ready for bed.

If I could get some regular MB users to comment... how long before nootropic effects start to present? Are the changes subtle? Do they present immediately and then continue to develop in a cumulative manner? After my latest dose at 11PM (15 minutes ago) I do notice that I'm not feeling particularly fatigued and the fluidity of my writing is rather decent. Better than decent even. Also, I've consumed 7g of fish oil today and took 1400mg with my latest dose of MB.

I'll report back as I continue with my experimentation.

[stillwater]

This morning I woke up hungover and dead tired and thought to myself I should call in sick to work. I went into the kitchen to take my 60mcg dose of MB and thought eff it I should just take one drop right from the Kordon bottle in a glass of water and maybe it will push me through the work day. So I did.

A dramatic difference, within an hour or two, the hungover tired feeling was gone and for lack of a better analogy I began feeling like I was on mushrooms minus the hallucinations. Serene , calm , centered, colors are brighter, everything is brighter, a general feeling of well being.

I guess if it really is safe, I think I might move to this much higher dose. It feels a bit surreal after all these years of pissing out expensive garbage that did nothing, that a $5 bottle of blue dye would give me what I was looking for. There is a nagging voice somewhere in the distance... saying nothing like this ever comes without a cost or side effect, you should know better, and that a year of dosing from now I'll find out MB causes ear wax cancer or something. Maybe the Blue Man Group are all MethB addicts and eventually I'll have to join them too, I best start practicing my drumming now.

[unregistered_user]

Ok, at 5:38pm I just dosed 1 drop undiluted, straight from the bottle, with 1400mg triple strength fish oil and 500mg ALCAR. I hope this wasn't a mistake...

[unregistered_user]

Whoa, weirdness just now. I just picked up the dumbbells in my room and did a few sets. Only 35lb weights and did 2 sets of 12. Then flexed in the mirror. The veins in my arm are BRIGHT blue. That was scary and weird... lol

Edit: Ok, I know veins are blue anyway and it was probably just the enhanced saturation that caught me off guard. Nonetheless, still a little weird.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 12 August 2011 - 10:10 PM.

[Jq82]

I actually mix for color(from using different dilutions)...I used the first of 2 dilutions, store in a acceptable receptacle, pour some out in a shot glass, and use a syringe to measure out an amount. I usually eye the water level -since it's the same glass I already measured with equipment...I can eye my level...

Probably not at all scientific...but it works for me...I measure for consumption color...and exit color...At my current dosage/schedule, I dose twice a day: In the morning with my daily supplements, and in the evening when I get home from the office...This schedule and amount does not yield much of a "Piss" color change...

I'm achieving TWO results: Morning dose takes the edge away from the Adderall(really for the whole day). Evening dose takes away the "Tired". Tonight I was thinking..."Yuck...I feel exhausted and burnt..." But I supp up my MB dose(right when I get home)...and I'm actually ok...: Make Dinner, Continue with some Work, clean...whatever I thought I couldn't do before I got home...

Again. I feel like for ME it just takes the edge off of harsh emotions. I gave my dose to a friend(who doesn't supplement unless I force it on him, and totally parties too hard) and he says it feels "Like a mild sedative..."

This is just my perspective. There are more advanced perspectives...but I go by what works for me, including experimenting with higher doses and reactions with other supps -the most important thing to remember is How you feel all around. Every action and reaction has to be analysed in order to fully experiment with a new substance.

That's just lil ol' me...

Sincerely,

jq

[abelard lindsay]

I guess if it really is safe, I think I might move to this much higher dose. It feels a bit surreal after all these years of pissing out expensive garbage that did nothing, that a $5 bottle of blue dye would give me what I was looking for. There is a nagging voice somewhere in the distance... saying nothing like this ever comes without a cost or side effect, you should know better, and that a year of dosing from now I'll find out MB causes ear wax cancer or something. Maybe the Blue Man Group are all MethB addicts and eventually I'll have to join them too, I best start practicing my drumming now.

The irony is really terrifying sometimes. You have this $5 bottle that lasts years and it's the best supplement you ever took.

[unregistered_user]

I'm a little frustrated because I don't feel my experience with it is living up to the high acclaim it has received here. I'm still experimenting with doses and I'm only on my 3rd day but I haven't started to fully appreciate the effects that others have documented.

One possibility that comes to mind anytime I am evaluating the effectiveness of a new product is an effect not unlike the placebo in that it is mostly psychosomatic but different in that the "anticipation of results clouds my ability to actually discern real results". I'm like "ok... so do I feel it now?" "would x have happened anyway or is this because of the methylene blue"? This persistent analysis of every thought, action and consequence stands in the way of actually allowing me to appreciate the effects of the MB because I'm so busy scrutinizing it.

Here is what I feel I can document so far:

• I can definitely feel that I'm "on something" which is neither good or bad for the time being.
  
• There hasn't been any appreciable effect on word-recall or cognition.
  
• I think I have noticed a dissipation of my fatigue although it is subtle.
  
• My sense of direction and orientation seems to be worse than usual. When shopping at the mall after exiting various stores within, I forget which direction I came from and end up needing a moment to reorient myself. It's like I've lost my visual cues from where I've been and where I'm going.
  
• I feel a tad depersonalized. This goes back to the first point of feeling like I'm "on something". Not a total break from reality, far from it, but a slight disconnect from things going on around me. I expected the opposite to be true here. I expected to feel more engaged, more gregarious, and more motivated but instead feel more passive, apathetic and mellow. Odd?
  
  So these are just a few thoughts from my very limited experience with it. Perhaps I just haven't pinned down the right dose for myself. The points above were noticed after taking 1 drop straight from the bottle and putting it into a small shot glass with some bottled water.

[unregistered_user]

Maybe it's worth mentioning as well that my stack is very simple and consists only of the following:

• 8.5g fish oil
• 500mg ALCAR
• Jarrow B-Complex
• Opti-Men Multivitamin

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 14 August 2011 - 12:13 AM.

[unregistered_user]

My girlfriend noticed I looked more pale than usual. I don't really see it. Is this anything to be worried about? I'm taking small amounts of diluted MB. I diluted a solution down to 1.15mg/ml and have taken maybe 6-8 drops or so from it today. I haven't even taken enough to even slightly tint the color of my urine today, or any day prior.

I also noticed a minor chest ache which was transient lasting only about 15-30 seconds. I feel ok so for now I won't needlessly worry. Just thought I'd post it up since I consider this all to be potentially apart of the experience. My stack was posted above and as you can see, every other item is benign (relatively speaking) and highly used. I know the fish oil isn't the culprit, if indeed there was one.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 14 August 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[lourdaud]

This substance seems really really interesting. I'm on escitalopram and mirtazapine (as well as dexamphetamine which I however could skip) though so I'm not sure I want to take it..
Could anyone tell me:
How well do you find MB to improve focus in comparison to amphetamine?
How effective do you find the lower dose range to be (around 20 mg or so) ?

[e Volution]

I'm a little frustrated because I don't feel my experience with it is living up to the high acclaim it has received here. I'm still experimenting with doses and I'm only on my 3rd day but I haven't started to fully appreciate the effects that others have documented.

One possibility that comes to mind anytime I am evaluating the effectiveness of a new product is an effect not unlike the placebo in that it is mostly psychosomatic but different in that the "anticipation of results clouds my ability to actually discern real results". I'm like "ok... so do I feel it now?" "would x have happened anyway or is this because of the methylene blue"? This persistent analysis of every thought, action and consequence stands in the way of actually allowing me to appreciate the effects of the MB because I'm so busy scrutinizing it.

I would say it is the opposite!

To me Methylene Blue seems an almost perfect storm in terms of a candidate for inducing the Placebo effect. You get it from an aquarium, it's strikingly blue in colour, it makes your pee go blue, it's experimental, you have to spend 15 minutes with a pen, paper and calculator to dose it down a few orders of magnitude just to prepare your dosage. It's totally benign and extremely experimental all at the same time. That is some serious cognitive load taking place when one starts experimenting with MB and that is almost inevitably going to lead to feeling an effect, whether MB itself is responsible or not!

[MrHappy]

I'm a little frustrated because I don't feel my experience with it is living up to the high acclaim it has received here. I'm still experimenting with doses and I'm only on my 3rd day but I haven't started to fully appreciate the effects that others have documented.

One possibility that comes to mind anytime I am evaluating the effectiveness of a new product is an effect not unlike the placebo in that it is mostly psychosomatic but different in that the "anticipation of results clouds my ability to actually discern real results". I'm like "ok... so do I feel it now?" "would x have happened anyway or is this because of the methylene blue"? This persistent analysis of every thought, action and consequence stands in the way of actually allowing me to appreciate the effects of the MB because I'm so busy scrutinizing it.

I would say it is the opposite!

To me Methylene Blue seems an almost perfect storm in terms of a candidate for inducing the Placebo effect. You get it from an aquarium, it's strikingly blue in colour, it makes your pee go blue, it's experimental, you have to spend 15 minutes with a pen, paper and calculator to dose it down a few orders of magnitude just to prepare your dosage. It's totally benign and extremely experimental all at the same time. That is some serious cognitive load taking place when one starts experimenting with MB and that is almost inevitably going to lead to feeling an effect, whether MB itself is responsible or not!

I'm sure the test subjects on the 2008 and 2009 clinical trials for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease don't agree with you. I read 81% improvement in cognitive ability above baseline, versus 0% on the placebo.

Having just downed my first 1.2mg dose, with no expectations, I'll be interested to see what effects, if any, are noticeable. I've read that it takes 2 weeks to see a significant change.

On a separate note, I found that my vitamin B12, zinc, calcium ascorbate, L-lysine, magnesium and L-taurine stack had an unexpected and significant effect in improving my mental clarity, calmness, energy levels and muscle fatigue. I'd recommend it to anyone who didn't want to experiment with lesser-known substances.

EDIT: Could be psychosomatic, but I currently feel dopey and my typing seems to be worse than normal. I'm mixing up my letters in words, etc.

EDIT2: Calm before the storm!! It was funny - slow and dopey and awkward after about 20 minutes, now unusally sharp, focused and feeling pretty damn good, really! I don't know if it is related, but I hadn't eaten since breakfast and my MB dose was 1/2 hour before eating dinner. Hmmm..!

Edited by MrHappy, 15 August 2011 - 10:07 AM.

[unregistered_user]

I know we've discussed dosing ad nauseum in this thread but Mr. Happy, what is your dosing process? In other words, how are you arriving at your 1.2mg dose?

Also, the dopey effects you reported were something I noticed as well during the first couple of days. I felt clumsy and generally not as acute as usual and made lots of basic typing errors. I also noticed my spelling of typical words was poor.

[MrHappy]

I know we've discussed dosing ad nauseum in this thread but Mr. Happy, what is your dosing process? In other words, how are you arriving at your 1.2mg dose?

Also, the dopey effects you reported were something I noticed as well during the first couple of days. I felt clumsy and generally not as acute as usual and made lots of basic typing errors. I also noticed my spelling of typical words was poor.

I'm using a 500mL bottle of "Aristopet / Aqua Master 'Methylene Blue'" (Active Constituent: 12mg/mL Methylene Blue).
I have a 100unit / 1mL syringe for insulin / diabetics.
I measured out 200mL of filtered water into a bottle (using a kitchen measuring cup), then used the syringe to apply 20mL of the product into the water. I label this bottle 1.2mg/mL.
To dose, I use the same type of syringe to take 1mL of the 1.2mg/mL bottle and apply it to the glass of whatever I feel like drinking.

How are you dosing and how are you feeling now?

[unregistered_user]

Eh so I guess maybe MB isn't my thing.

The first few days have yielded no positive results. Today after taking about 1.8mg I felt slightly confused, I had nervous thinking and couldn't stay focused to complete simple everyday tasks. You know that feeling you get when you have so much to do you don't know where to begin? I was getting that feeling this morning and I had next to nothing to do. I would walk into a room and forget why I went in there. I felt another minor chest pain but again it was fleeting. MB has a very noticeable effect on my consciousness. I feel like I'm in an almost dream-like state. I took it with 1.5g ALCAR, 4.5g fish oil, a multi and b-complex. This was my first time taking that much ALCAR so perhaps some of my unease was a result of that.

I haven't noticed enhanced language skills or alertness. What I thought were positives in those areas in the very beginning might just have been the placebo effect. Even something as simple as counting money required total concentration because I kept getting distracted and bothered by how difficult it felt.

Leave it to me to have the exact opposite response of everyone else...

[unregistered_user]

No tightness here but again, I've only been taking between 200mcg-1.8mg per day. Not enough to even tint my urine. How much would you have to take to see it in your pee?

[MrHappy]

No tightness here but again, I've only been taking between 200mcg-1.8mg per day. Not enough to even tint my urine. How much would you have to take to see it in your pee?

Ask isochroma.. I think he was on 60mg+ from memory.

[aaron43]

For anyone who thinks they will become instantly smarter with MB, you are in for a disappointment. If you want to increase your intake of information from your environment (including learning from mistakes) that will be usable in a cognitive sense at an easier rate from the point you dose MB and on, then MB is for you.

To anyone who doubts MB's effectiveness: Try this excercise. Though you may be able to change the exercise to whatever fits your personal needs, this particular exercise will showcase you mental cognitive functions as well as whole bodily cognitive functions that games like dual-n-back may miss because it is simplistic movements on a computer.
- - Learn to juggle. Take MB, learn the very basics of juggling, and see how fast you can pick it up. I know there is no baseline to base it off, but you may be surprised to see what is possible.

** Note that for almost every study on MB that has tested for cognitive benefits, the doses given were after a particular training and not before. MB is fundamentally different in that it consolidates and organizes learning for efficiency for the next situation in where it may be implemented. I have noticed continuous dosing makes this effect continuous as logic presumes, but it seems to me a new cognitive baseline is formed in which I don't even realize that every choice I make, no matter how small, is systemically a "smarter" decision than if I had been presented the same choice in the past, where repeated non-learning tendencies were prevalent, but are now crushed by MB.

As for 60 mcg being the nootropic dose, I am going to propose in my next post a scientifically logical theory as to why Methylene Blue is an effective cognitive enhancer at low doses and how possibly the number 60 mcg came to be. I hope I will get input from others on what I have over looked, or what may be wrong. It is going to take me a while to post it as I have a lot of information to organize into a readable understandable post. About two weeks ago I went off on learning the technicalities and implications of MB for about 12 hours in one day, I overwhelmed myself and I personally felt I needed to take a vacation to not get become pessimistic towards nootropics. It will be my educated theory, I'm learning through my computer, I'm excited to post it, and I won't be bothered at all if I'm completely wrong because I still did learn a lot.

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

[MrHappy]

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

Sure... although perhaps you mean other than the rats and mice that developed lymphoma on 2-year studies with doses exceeding an equivalent to a human dose of 2.5mg (disclaimer:dosage equivalence calculation according to someone else on here).

I've noticed after my 1st 1.2mg dose that my neck is sore, indicating my lymphatic drainage system is probably backlogged.

[aaron43]

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

Sure... although perhaps you mean other than the rats and mice that developed lymphoma on 2-year studies with doses exceeding an equivalent to a human dose of 2.5mg (disclaimer:dosage equivalence calculation according to someone else on here).

I've noticed after my 1st 1.2mg dose that my neck is sore, indicating my lymphatic drainage system is probably backlogged.

Please do not self-diagnose yourself with any lymphatic draining backlogging nonsense. That's ridiculous to base such an idea of neck soreness. lol.

Try lower doses, if high doesn't work try low, if low doesn't work try high, moral of story: experiment with dosages, the half-life of MB is about 5 hours, so you'll get your chances to try different doses.

[MrHappy]

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

Sure... although perhaps you mean other than the rats and mice that developed lymphoma on 2-year studies with doses exceeding an equivalent to a human dose of 2.5mg (disclaimer:dosage equivalence calculation according to someone else on here).

I've noticed after my 1st 1.2mg dose that my neck is sore, indicating my lymphatic drainage system is probably backlogged.

Please do not self-diagnose yourself with any lymphatic draining backlogging nonsense. That's ridiculous to base such an idea of neck soreness. lol.

Try lower doses, if high doesn't work try low, if low doesn't work try high, moral of story: experiment with dosages, the half-life of MB is about 5 hours, so you'll get your chances to try different doses.

I am scaling back to a lower dose, but if you read the whole thread, I'm not the first person to mention sore neck.

Considering that the lymphatic system works by binding proteins to foreign particles for macrophages to then digest, I find it worth mentioning, as this was only noticed in my cervical lymph nodes (in the neck) after my first 1.2mg dose.

It's entirely possible that this could be from another cause eg. fighting off something else invading my body, but the timing with the MB dose makes it a real possibility- that and I'm not the only one to mention it. Combine that with the lymphoma observed in rats and mice in long term studies and I think it is pertinent to ask everyone else here if they are having similar experiences, before any potential long term damage is caused.

[aaron43]

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

Sure... although perhaps you mean other than the rats and mice that developed lymphoma on 2-year studies with doses exceeding an equivalent to a human dose of 2.5mg (disclaimer:dosage equivalence calculation according to someone else on here).

I've noticed after my 1st 1.2mg dose that my neck is sore, indicating my lymphatic drainage system is probably backlogged.

Please do not self-diagnose yourself with any lymphatic draining backlogging nonsense. That's ridiculous to base such an idea of neck soreness. lol.

Try lower doses, if high doesn't work try low, if low doesn't work try high, moral of story: experiment with dosages, the half-life of MB is about 5 hours, so you'll get your chances to try different doses.

I am scaling back to a lower dose, but if you read the whole thread, I'm not the first person to mention sore neck.

Considering that the lymphatic system works by binding proteins to foreign particles for macrophages to then digest, I find it worth mentioning, as this was only noticed in my cervical lymph nodes (in the neck) after my first 1.2mg dose.

It's entirely possible that this could be from another cause eg. fighting off something else invading my body, but the timing with the MB dose makes it a real possibility- that and I'm not the only one to mention it. Combine that with the lymphoma observed in rats and mice in long term studies and I think it is pertinent to ask everyone else here if they are having similar experiences, before any potential long term damage is caused.

It is an aspect so it must be discussed, but this is what I feel:
I am not saying your not feeling this, but to indicate MB as unsafe because of neck soreness, you should probably run through a logical checklist.

You must look at the method of administration used the studies, most are intravenous usually, and realistically compare it to what your taking which is an oral dose.
Do not underestimate the difference in effectiveness of an small unchanging dose in any drug between rats and humans.
Do not overlook the extensive safety record, and the fact that it was used commonly to treat malaria when soldiers were at war, and, to my knowledge, since then, there has not been a jump in diseases as there would have been a jump in mental health decline if soldiers were eating lead paint chips to fend off malaria.
And I know, from personal experience, that my neck hurts when my blood pressure rises, more than a few drugs cause neck soreness in me, as well as exercise, but I would not automatically assume it as detrimental or having to do with the lymphnode system. It is a general area of the body and may be difficult to anecdotally pinpoint what is causing soreness in one's neck. I'd say its a very shaky foundation to base a concern on, but if you are still interested uncover what is true or not for yourself by researching.
And the idea that multiple drugs could cause neck soreness/stiffness, with the type of logic you said, would mean that continued use of any drug that causes neck soreness could be causing lymphnode damage.

It is a common idea that MB can cause chest pain behind the breastbone, this may be associated? Thats my guess, it seems to be a minor side effect that there is discomfort with taking MB at first. MB is a vasoconstrictor and an NO inhibitor which may have implications in producing the side effect.

And I have read this thread many times my man

[unregistered_user]

Aaron, glad you decided to post. I was wondering how you were doing with MB. Are you still taking it? Did you ever experience the chest pain in the beginning? Have you noticed only positive effects associated with taking MB or have there been detriments at different dosages as well?

Are you still taking 60mcg and have you ever ventured to try a higher dose? You seem to be one who has derived major benefits from using MB. I've read all of your posts here and on the other board (where you wound up getting into a pissing match with one of the admins... hah).

I haven't given up yet. Perhaps introducing piracetam will bring about more desirable results.

[abelard lindsay]

Hi all,

I tried some MB for old times sake. Definitely works. I noticed my vision became extremely good. Thinking was clear, I could do lots of work easily. I super diluted it so it was barely turquoise. I guess this was a good thing because I think my MB was a little old (VERY OLD, left over from my experimentation in 2009) and it tasted kind of cold, minty, and made the inside of my mouth feel almost pins and needles. I got the effect, but my stomach went ominously screwball for about 12 hours. Not painful, just bloated belching and leaking out of my rear. I'm fine now, but luckily I was taking a very small, extremely diluted amount. I read up on it and it self-oxidizes in the dark to some sort of base solution (low ph).

http://www.nature.co...s/220066a0.html

ANOMALOUS colour changes exhibited by methylene blue (Fig. 1, I) in organic media containing amines in the dark have been reported and rationalized in various ways1–3. These observations are of interest in connexion with studies of the photochemical reduction of I by amines1, the use of I in photosensitized autoxidation of amines4,5 and the investigation of dye-amine catalyst systems for photopolymerization6. We have encountered similar events in our own work in these areas and have identified the cause as base-catalysed self-oxidation7,8 or disproportionation of compound I followed by hydrolysis of the oxidized species VII to the demethylated dye II which is pale red in basic solution. This provides a general explanation for the various observations referred to.

Basically, beware of two year old MB. Anyone know for sure what the expiration is on this stuff if left in the dark?

Edited by abelard lindsay, 16 August 2011 - 03:06 AM.

[unregistered_user]

Well, I bought mine last week and assuming it was manufactured this year (which I'm betting it was) it would last almost 5 years because the expiration is: 06/2015.

[MrHappy]

*Don't forget yogurt and probiotics are a great way to ease the gastrointestinal effects that I get from MB after continuous dosing. And take a multi-vitamin as the vitamin E is a great safety measure for anyone who feels like they still need to play it safe...that should end discussion on the safety of MB.

Sure... although perhaps you mean other than the rats and mice that developed lymphoma on 2-year studies with doses exceeding an equivalent to a human dose of 2.5mg (disclaimer:dosage equivalence calculation according to someone else on here).

I've noticed after my 1st 1.2mg dose that my neck is sore, indicating my lymphatic drainage system is probably backlogged.

Please do not self-diagnose yourself with any lymphatic draining backlogging nonsense. That's ridiculous to base such an idea of neck soreness. lol.

Try lower doses, if high doesn't work try low, if low doesn't work try high, moral of story: experiment with dosages, the half-life of MB is about 5 hours, so you'll get your chances to try different doses.

I am scaling back to a lower dose, but if you read the whole thread, I'm not the first person to mention sore neck.

Considering that the lymphatic system works by binding proteins to foreign particles for macrophages to then digest, I find it worth mentioning, as this was only noticed in my cervical lymph nodes (in the neck) after my first 1.2mg dose.

It's entirely possible that this could be from another cause eg. fighting off something else invading my body, but the timing with the MB dose makes it a real possibility- that and I'm not the only one to mention it. Combine that with the lymphoma observed in rats and mice in long term studies and I think it is pertinent to ask everyone else here if they are having similar experiences, before any potential long term damage is caused.

It is an aspect so it must be discussed, but this is what I feel:
I am not saying your not feeling this, but to indicate MB as unsafe because of neck soreness, you should probably run through a logical checklist.

You must look at the method of administration used the studies, most are intravenous usually, and realistically compare it to what your taking which is an oral dose.
Do not underestimate the difference in effectiveness of an small unchanging dose in any drug between rats and humans.
Do not overlook the extensive safety record, and the fact that it was used commonly to treat malaria when soldiers were at war, and, to my knowledge, since then, there has not been a jump in diseases as there would have been a jump in mental health decline if soldiers were eating lead paint chips to fend off malaria.
And I know, from personal experience, that my neck hurts when my blood pressure rises, more than a few drugs cause neck soreness in me, as well as exercise, but I would not automatically assume it as detrimental or having to do with the lymphnode system. It is a general area of the body and may be difficult to anecdotally pinpoint what is causing soreness in one's neck. I'd say its a very shaky foundation to base a concern on, but if you are still interested uncover what is true or not for yourself by researching.
And the idea that multiple drugs could cause neck soreness/stiffness, with the type of logic you said, would mean that continued use of any drug that causes neck soreness could be causing lymphnode damage.

It is a common idea that MB can cause chest pain behind the breastbone, this may be associated? Thats my guess, it seems to be a minor side effect that there is discomfort with taking MB at first. MB is a vasoconstrictor and an NO inhibitor which may have implications in producing the side effect.

And I have read this thread many times my man

No worries - the one thing with eg. malaria treatment, is that it is generally a high dose for a specific/short period of time, not an ongoing dose.

The longterm studies with rats and mice showed lymphoma in a trend that corresponded with the dose. The lowest equivalent human dosage was 2.5mg.
Most of the long-term clinical trials (human)I have seen are 60ug. There are other trials hoping to establish the dosages for safe longterm use.
I am expressing concern that longterm use without a proper understanding of how that specific dose level is going to affect other functions and organs and without a level of caution is unwise. EDIT:typo

So far I have personally noticed 'tightness/irritation' in my cervical lymph nodes (neck) and shortness of breath after quite mild physical activity. I now need to establish if this is related to MB or another factor not readily apparent. (eg. mild flu, but without cough/sneeze, etc)

If it turns out that the body's lymphatic system is unable to process a continual dose of 1mg, then this might explain the correlating trend of lymphoma in mice/rats.

I personally would like to get to the bottom of this, because so far, I am particularly enjoying the noticable enhancements in mental alertness and clarity - I no longer feel any mental 'tiredness' or 'foggy' - it's like gliding along a long block of ice on a heated snowboard... slick! If I can achieve this at lower doses without any side effects, I'm all for it.

Edited by MrHappy, 16 August 2011 - 05:08 AM.

[MrHappy]

Regarding my earlier post about the irritated lymphatic system (tight/sore sides of the neck area), I've been wondering if this is an indirect effect of MB:

MB is an anti-viral / antifungal.

What if the particles or 'debris' that my lymphatic system is processing is not the MB itself, but the remains of a fungal infection (eg. candida), killed by the MB and being processed in the normal manner?

[unregistered_user]

I don't feel like I've had too much success with lower doses so tonight I decided to ramp it up.

1.44mg at 7:00PM

1.44mg at 7:45PM

1.44mg at 8:20PM

1.44mg at 9:10PM

So far the effects I've gotten from my combined dose of 5.76mg have been the most satisfying for me. Right now I just have a clear head. I don't feel particularly energized but I feel focused and centered. I was a little nervous to increase my doses but it seems to be going well so far. I do have work in the morning but I feel like I could fall asleep later when I have to. I'm not wired or anything.

At this point I'm just testing the limits and try to establish some boundaries and determine an effective dose. Cognitively, I feel a bit sharper but its negligible.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 18 August 2011 - 01:30 AM.

[unregistered_user]

To the researchers here that understand MB, is there any reason to believe it would be harmful for me to continue taking it prior to surgery? My doctor requires discontinuation of all supplements and medications because he doesn't want any uncontrollable bleeding that he can't understand.

Are MB, piracetam, ALCAR, and Fish Oil things to worry about? Do they affect clotting or any of my other vitals in any way that might be problematic during surgery?